Author Topic: GC Controllers Won't Work on Rev Games (Read 24106 times)

KirbySStar · « **Reply #50 on:** February 12, 2006, 10:48:52 AM »

You are missing the entire point. Bongos > two revmotes for Donkey Konga and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. I'm pretty sure we'd all love a sequel to Jungle Beat. So in order to get that experience again you either have to use the physical bongos or something that we haven't seen yet.

Airdrumming != the way you use bongos.

Artimus · « **Reply #51 on:** February 12, 2006, 10:55:42 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KirbySStar
You are missing the entire point. Bongos > two revmotes for Donkey Konga and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. I'm pretty sure we'd all love a sequel to Jungle Beat. So in order to get that experience again you either have to use the physical bongos or something that we haven't seen yet.

Airdrumming != the way you use bongos.

Pehraps Nintendo has 0 intent to make a sequel? And how do you know they won't allow you to use the bongos with the games? If the system can read the ports for GCN games, it can read them for Rev games. When reggie says controller I don't see any reason to take him at anything other than 'controller'.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #52 on:** February 12, 2006, 11:17:51 AM »

I just want to know whether or not the shell will come with each controller of be sold separately...

KirbySStar · « **Reply #53 on:** February 12, 2006, 11:57:32 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Quote
Originally posted by: KirbySStar
You are missing the entire point. Bongos > two revmotes for Donkey Konga and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. I'm pretty sure we'd all love a sequel to Jungle Beat. So in order to get that experience again you either have to use the physical bongos or something that we haven't seen yet.

Airdrumming != the way you use bongos.

Pehraps Nintendo has 0 intent to make a sequel? And how do you know they won't allow you to use the bongos with the games? If the system can read the ports for GCN games, it can read them for Rev games. When reggie says controller I don't see any reason to take him at anything other than 'controller'.

Okay. Thanks for um agreeing with me I guess.

Quote
Originally posted by: KirbySStar
I'm sure that in rare cases like this Nintendo will either let you use the cube ports or they will have an accessory that comes out of the revmote if necessary.

Artimus · « **Reply #54 on:** February 12, 2006, 12:35:01 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KirbySStar
Okay. Thanks for um agreeing with me I guess.

Sorry, this thread is so full of stupidness I missed your post. I do indeed agree.

The worst part about Nintendo's blackout, imho, is the obnoxious negativity based on absolutely nothing. This is the time when fans should be the most optimistic and hopeful, but there are always some carpetbags who drag everyone down and ruin the fun.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #55 on:** February 12, 2006, 12:49:54 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusThe worst part about Nintendo's blackout, imho, is the obnoxious negativity based on absolutely nothing. This is the time when fans should be the most optimistic and hopeful, but there are always some carpetbags who drag everyone down and ruin the fun.

They've had a tendency to make a big fuss over nothing in the past, hence why myself and many others are hesitant to expect much.

I HOPE that they blow the industry away when that curtain goes up, but I don't expect that in the least.

If the DS is an indicator of the future of Nintendo, then I like the way they're headed. Becoming the "Apple" of the gaming industry may mean that you innovate while everyone else rips you off but you always have a following and you're impossible to "kill".

Also, while Apple is by far the most expensive computer reseller, Nintendo has and always will be the very cheapest, ensuring that the only excuse for not picking up their hardware is that you're and anal fanboy of another company.

Mario · « **Reply #56 on:** February 12, 2006, 05:11:18 PM »

Actually, as the biggest Jungle Beat fan in the entire world, i'd rather they try something new for a sequel instead of use bongos again. Not anything against the awesome bongos, but if I want bongo Jungle Beat i'll just play Jungle Beat, i'd like Tokyo EAD to try more new things, if anyone can make something unique out of the Revolution controller it's them.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #57 on:** February 12, 2006, 05:42:58 PM »

As the second biggest Jungle Beat fan in the entire world, I completely agree with the biggest Jungle Beat fan in the entire world...

Dasmos · « **Reply #58 on:** February 13, 2006, 12:02:40 AM »

Mario · « **Reply #59 on:** February 13, 2006, 12:56:33 AM »

You're second, Bill is third.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #60 on:** February 13, 2006, 04:15:07 AM »

WHAT? NO! >=|

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #61 on:** February 13, 2006, 04:27:32 AM »

I never expected the GCN controllers to work with REV games.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #62 on:** February 13, 2006, 05:02:57 AM »

Holy controversy, Batman! Nitsu pretty much sums up my opinion, I never expected this and I think it was nice of Nintendo to include any type of backwards compatability at all. I admit it would be nice to have backwards compatability when developers want to offer it, but I think the feature would be mostly unused and obviously it's not going to work for every game.

Here's an interesting problem, though. How would you make a controller that is 100% backwards-compatable with all existing controllers? One possibility is to take the GameCube controller and put two more face buttons on it. That would give you all the buttons the N64 had, plus the extra analog nub. But what about ports? Microsoft has basically given in to Sony's double-shoulder button layout (which I'm not crazy about). Do we have to have an uber controller with six face buttons and four shoulder buttons?

No. My guess is Nintendo will let you remap the controls for N64 games, and maybe some older games. Heck, why not let people remap the controller however they want for every game? This seems like the smart fix, but Nintendo might view it as too complicated - it rarely offers controller configuration options in it's existing games.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #63 on:** February 13, 2006, 06:47:48 AM »

It figures. I spend the weekend watching the Olympics and big Rev news (well big by Rev standards anyway) drops.

This to me suggests that the shell is going to be standard with every console. Ideally it should come with every controller if Nintendo intends on it to be adapted in any significant way at all but I don't know if they'll do that. The shell is probably included with the console at least for sure.

I always saw the inclusion of the Cube controllers as a nice bonus for Cube owners and having four slots was to ensure complete compatibility so that even you want to play four player Donkey Konga on the Rev you can. If everything goes according to plan most Rev owners aren't going to be Cube owners. That's just logical. Nintendo has said they want to sell more Revs than they sold Cubes and that means selling to people who didn't own Cubes. So it can't be assumed that any Rev owner automatically owns Cube controllers so Nintendo can't have third parties making games that need that controller. Now making sure no one needs the controller doesn't require a complete ban so it would be nice if a game could be allowed to support the Cube controller if it already works with the shell. Nintendo, as usual, is going a little overboard here. I would like to use my Hori controller for NES/SNES games.

It would be nice if we could see the shell because that information would greatly affect our opinions. If the shell is perfect then no one would really care about the Cube controller and if it sucks then anyone supporting this would probably change their tune. This is more "it can't do this" news for the Rev and it would be nice if it was complimented with something positive. So far the Rev just sounds incredibly restrictive when in theory it's supposed to be the opposite.

As for Cube accessories like the bongos it just doesn't make sense to support it. Honestly how well do you think a bongo game, which is already niche to begin with, would sell if it required last gen hardware accessories to play it? We got three games that support that accessory. That's better then the usual one. Ideally I guess Nintendo could just re-release the bongos if a new bongo game came out but that's assuming they would even make anymore bongo games. It kind of sucks but it might be a non-issue entirely depending on what's released. If Nintendo releases a Rev bongo controller that is more or less exactly like the Cube one then everyone is free to complain.

Regarding Nintendo forcing motion control into every game that would SUCK though they'll probably do it. Every item on a controller should be optional to the developer. If the developer makes a horrible control scheme because they ignore key stuff that's their problem. I think the ideal example of why not to force something like that is Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow. Dawn of Sorrow is a great game but it doesn't really use the touchscreen in a useful way. All it has is this annoying seal system. The seal system feels very forced and unneeded. It's also awkward as hell because you beat a boss using the d-pad and buttons and then suddenly you're expected to pick up your stylus and draw something. I'd say the game is hurt by this feature and would be better off without it. I've heard that Nintendo forces the use of the touchscreen for DS games and looking at DoS that's pretty believable because I can't see any other reason to include something so contrived and stupid into an otherwise near perfect game. That's the sort of annoying crap we would have to deal with if Nintendo forced motion control into every game.

Plus to me forcing the use of a feature suggests that in fact the feature isn't that great at all. If it's a really great idea you don't have to force people to use it because they'll end up using it anyway. The analog stick wasn't forced. It was just there and it was widely used anyway. Forcing the feature seems desperate to me. Like they feel they have to force-feed it to us in order to catch on. If you have to force-feed it then the idea sucks.

At least now when I say that Nintendo HAS to include the shell with every controller no one can say "you can just use the Cube controller".

KDR_11k · « **Reply #64 on:** February 13, 2006, 07:56:37 AM »

Hm, is the Rev really the only nextgen console that lets you use the original controllers and memory cards for backwards compatibility?

Regarding Nintendo forcing motion control into every game that would SUCK though they'll probably do it.

I doubt it. They'd encourage it but they haven't enforced touchscreen usage on the DS, they won't enforce gyro usage on the Rev. Doesn't mean reviewers won't dock points for not using these features (even when that'd make no sense) just as they docked points for a game not being online on the GC. The only area where Nintendo really enforces anything anymore is stability (and I've heard rumors of GBA dev managers cursing Nintendo's bugtesting standards, shows you what crap we'd get without any limits), they're afraid of pissing off developers these days and have the least restrictions on content.

It's also awkward as hell because you beat a boss using the d-pad and buttons and then suddenly you're expected to pick up your stylus and draw something.

I said it before and I'll say it again: The fingernail works just fine.

I've heard that Nintendo forces the use of the touchscreen for DS games and looking at DoS that's pretty believable because I can't see any other reason to include something so contrived and stupid into an otherwise near perfect game.

I don't believe that, too many DS games don't use the touchscreen at all (Mario Kart DS anyone?). Most likely Konami felt obliged to use the touch screen now that it's there.

Plus to me forcing the use of a feature suggests that in fact the feature isn't that great at all. If it's a really great idea you don't have to force people to use it because they'll end up using it anyway.

Not necessarily. Many companies love doing cookie-cutter ports that use none of the system's special features (no keyboard text input in PC versions???) and sometimes don't even translate button names (THPS3 for the PC demands that you press the triangle button). But all that nonwithstanding I don't think they'll force devs to use the gyro data for anything, they just force users to use controllers that provide gyro data so devs wouldn't remove features because they're worried that reviewers complain about lack of GC controller support when the game doesn't make excessive use of the gyro data.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #65 on:** February 13, 2006, 08:35:49 AM »

"The fingernail works just fine."

Unfortunately I chew my nails.

"I don't believe that, too many DS games don't use the touchscreen at all (Mario Kart DS anyone?)."

Mario Kart DS can use the touchscreen for menu items. Minor stuff but the feature is used.

"Doesn't mean reviewers won't dock points for not using these features (even when that'd make no sense) just as they docked points for a game not being online on the GC."

Well usually when they dock points for no online it's because the PS2/Xbox version has online and thus a huge feature is missing from the Cube version in a direct comparison. Technically the Cube version is a "lesser game" and thus doesn't deserve the same score. Reviewers usually look at things from a multi-console point of view and their recommendations usually come from the approach where you can access all current consoles and thus need to know which version is the best. Mario Kart: DD didn't have a PS2/Xbox equivalent but they implemented LAN support but not online support. They did like half the work already so I can see why reviewers complained.

Similarly early DS games often got criticized for not making good use of the stylus. Often those games did use the stylus, just not in a way that was all that interesting. I think the problem there was at launch Nintendo failed to provide a game that made good use of the concept themselves so suddenly every game that used the stylus had to sell the concept even though it wasn't really that dev's responsibility. The same thing can be avoided on the Rev if Nintendo has a really killer motion controlled game at launch so that the concept is sold and thus each review isn't an analysis on the feature itself.

And I think there's a big difference between offering keyboard text input and motion control. Keyboards were widely used prior to console text input. Consoles have been using a workaround for that functionality since day one. But motion control largely is a brand new concept. Its use is not immediately so obvious. I can't think of anything where like text input people would complain "hey this should use motion control".

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #66 on:** February 13, 2006, 08:50:33 AM »

It's also awkward as hell because you beat a boss using the d-pad and buttons and then suddenly you're expected to pick up your stylus and draw something.

I said it before and I'll say it again: The fingernail works just fine.

I always have my stylus in my mouth, even when I'm playing a game that doesn't require the stylus!

Ian Sane · « **Reply #67 on:** February 13, 2006, 08:54:25 AM »

"I always have my stylus in my mouth, even when I'm playing a game that doesn't require the stylus!"

Bill slobber would be a pretty good way to keep others from playing your DS.

vudu · « **Reply #68 on:** February 13, 2006, 10:36:25 AM »

Quote
Regarding Nintendo forcing motion control into every game that would SUCK though they'll probably do it.

Just like they force developers to use every feature on the DS.

Quote
I think the ideal example of why not to force something like that is Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow. Dawn of Sorrow is a great game but it doesn't really use the touchscreen in a useful way. All it has is this annoying seal system. The seal system feels very forced and unneeded.

As has been pointed out my some of my quicker-on-the-draw colleagues, Nintendo doesn't force developers to implement these features--the developers (or maybe the publishers) do it to themselves. Also, like Bill, I hold the stylus in my mouth (but only for DoS boss fights).

Dasmos · « **Reply #69 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:43:11 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
WHAT? NO! >=|

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #70 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:58:25 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

Bill slobber would be a pretty good way to keep others from playing your DS.

Maybe that's a good reason to learn how to slobber...

Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos

Too bad, you'll have to deal with third!

Dasmos · « **Reply #71 on:** February 13, 2006, 12:07:26 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos

Too bad, you'll have to deal with third!

Mario · « **Reply #72 on:** February 13, 2006, 04:12:27 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos

Too bad, you'll have to deal with third!

A high score beat off is in order. Whoops Dasmos already won.

Shecky · « **Reply #73 on:** February 13, 2006, 06:05:55 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
This to me suggests that the shell is going to be standard with every console.

This news? I've always assumed that the shell would be part of the package. What good is the Virtual Console without it? The VC is a big push of the system... it's going to be accessible out of the box. I always thought the question was whether or not it would be included with extra controllers. (My guess is that it's not going to be... your going to have to buy the analog stick and shell separately... it's the new memory card!)

Ian Sane · « **Reply #74 on:** February 14, 2006, 06:53:48 AM »

"This news? I've always assumed that the shell would be part of the package. What good is the Virtual Console without it?"

Yeah but that's logical thinking and I've found regarding Nintendo what's logical and what they actually do isn't always the same thing. Logically the shell has to come with every controller if it's to be used in any serious way at all. But we're still pretty iffy about that. Reg more or less confirmed that the shell will come with the console here so that's why I feel safe in saying that. It always seemed logical to me but that's was never enough for me to assume they would.

News:

Author Topic: GC Controllers Won't Work on Rev Games (Read 24106 times)