Topic: A successful Revolution Launch lineup.

[ShyGuy]

What if there's a great non-exclusive game and you don't have the other platform it was released on?

[KDR_11k]

Then I'd start looking at the other great games of that other platform.

[couchmonkey]

For a really successful launch, I think Nintendo needs:
1. A game that makes great use of the system's unique features and also offers a "complete" experience  (e.g. Super Mario 64 or Nintendogs)
2. An online game to show that Nintendo is serious about online gaming.
3. A "mature" game to show that Nintendo has products for all ages.
4. Something that captures the attention of the non-gaming audience (this might overlap with game 1)
5. Lots of third party games (even if they're crap).

I think the actual launch will look something like this:
1. New Miyamoto game (hopefully this will be the game that proves the system concept)
2. SSB: Online (this game will be the online title for Nintendo, hopefully it will be ready by launch)
3. Metroid Prime 3 (this game fills in the "mature" gap and can partially prove the system concept with point-and-shoot controls)
4. Brian Training?  (hasn't been announced, but I'm sure it could be developed in time for launch, and it might sell to non-gamers).

So my predicted lineup covers the "successful" lineup pretty well - if Nintendo can manage that lineup, it would be good.  I think Metroid Prime 3 will show how awesome the system will be for first-person games, which is what some hardcore gamers need to see, but to me that game won't really blow people away, it'll be more like, "This is cool, finally a controller that plays FPS' as well as a mouse."  Hopefully the new Miyamoto game will blow people away with a really cool concept.  The big problem is getting plenty of third party games...but that won't even be quite so important if Nintendo's own games prove the hardware and sell it.

I don't think Mario 128 will be ready in time, but E3 may prove me wrong.  If it comes down to releasing Mario 128 in time for the launch or making it great, I hope Nintendo delays it to make it great.

[Ian Sane]

Here's what I think Nintendo needs to have a good launch:
- a good new idea that could never be done without the remote to sell the concept
- an old idea or franchise that makes good use of the remote to show the the remote is compatible with older style games (I'm making a big assumption that the remote actually is capable of this)
- a "cool" game to attract the older audience
- a multiplayer title to demonstrate the online capabilities
- an existing franchise to attract the longtime Nintendo nuts
- a totally brand new franchise to show that Nintendo doesn't just rehash old stuff

These can crossover so that the "cool" game and multiplayer game are the same title or whatever.  They don't need six first party games, they just have to have a combination of games that covers these points.  In terms of third party support I'd say they need a handful of really good exclusive third party games from developers people actually give a crap about that have different styles and cover different genres than Nintendo's usual stuff.  And then there's the usual Madden, Tom Clancy, Tony Hawk BS that every console has, preferably with decent ports.

What I think Nintendo will actually give us though will be:
- some Mario themed game of some sort (hopefully a "real" one but it might be a minor title due to time constraints)
- Warioware, Brain Training, or some other sort of non-game or simple game
- SSB Online (maybe; near launch anyway)
- at best ONE exclusive third party game that may or may not be any good; Nintendo will insist that it uses the remote a lot which may benefit the game or be shoehorned in and potentially ruin the game
- the usual Madden, Tom Clancy, Tony Hawk BS that every console has which Nintendo will make out to be a big deal eventhough it isn't; the initial ports will be pretty weak even if the remote turns out to be very capable of suiting these games
- Twilight Princess being pushed as if it's a big selling point when it isn't
- a really cool game that for some reason won't leave Japan

[Rhoq]

Ian, for the most part I agree with your list. I also think it's going to be important to show off the Revolution build of a multi-console title. Assuming that the Revolution will be able to compete with the X-Box 360 and PS3, graphically (I think in standard definition the Revolution will, at the very least, be the next generation's PS2 in terms of visuals). It should be able to compete and Nintendo will need to show that off to put a lot of fears to rest.

[Ian Sane]

"I also think it's going to be important to show off the Revolution build of a multi-console title."

Yeah that would be pretty important.  What would be best is if the Rev version of Madden turned out to be the best one and for whatever reason it was because of the remote.  So not only would Rev get the best Madden but what makes it the best is unavailable on the other consoles.  The only problem is that sort of thing is largely out of Nintendo's control.  Unfortunately I don't think they can trust most multiplatform third parties to deliver like that.

[antman100]

Buzz.

They need Metroid Prime....again.

Metroid Prime was the one of the only games in this generation that had EVERYBODY thinking about Nintendo.  Two of my friends (one an PC gamer, the other XBOX, neither had GC) both asked me if I was going to get MP.  I would go into an electronics store and overhear people talking about the game.  That game had fantastic buzz, thankfully, it delivered, and for a period of time, Nintendo was the 'Cool' console.  Yes, yes..I know Nintendo is always cool, yada, yada.

This is probably blasphemy, but I'm beginning to think they should have kept Zelda for the Revo.  Twilight Princess could be one of those games you have to have.  With the way it is being released, I don't know if it will really drive console sales.

I don't care what kind of game, what type of audience (MP wasn't 'Mature' by most standards, but still a kick @$$ game), but you need that kind of buzz.

[trip1eX]

Ah Metroid Prime.  What a game.  I played some more MP2 today.  IT's a very engaging game.  

[KDR_11k]

Metroid Prime has no weight anymore. MP2 was already an unnecessary sequel (felt like "let's slap new maps and weapons in there" except the weapons were mostly identical to the old ones) and few bought it, MP3 would really need some major changes to make any difference.

[IceCold]

And that's where the controller comes in

[Infernal Monkey]

I'd like to see Nintendo put the Metroid franchise to sleep for an entire generation again, like the N64. Wake up Pilotwings already.

[KDR_11k]

I'd prefer them making more NEW themes instead of reusing old ones and trying to make up for their simplicity.

[animecyberrat]

I jsut want to add that it sessential for them to have a Mario platofrmer that is REMENSICANT of the old games. thast whats is going to attract peopel who left, people who stopped playing mario because it changed and wasnt what they rememebered. A 2-d game with 3d graphics would be the best but thats not thier style.  

[KDR_11k]

Eh, I thought that's what NEW SMB already was?

[animecyberrat]

holy crap I new that woud get thrown in there, but there a flaw with that logic. Cuz the rev and DS are totaly different systems. What good does it do the REV if the DS has a game?

Nothing, the REV has to have its own games. Saying hwo cool a certian game would be on the rev and then saying well its already on DS is dumb in my mind, cuz they are two different systems.

Its like Mario Kart, its on DS but I am pretty sure everybody wants an online Mario kart for the rev so what good will it do to tell someone wanting a Mario Kart online for the DS do if they want it on the REV?

 Now that deosnt take away from me wanting the DS game thast for sure but we are talking about the Revolution not the DS, and I was saying that a 2D sidescrolling game but with 3d graphics, kinda like NEW Super Mario Bros for the Rev is what most fans want. Not die hard Nintendo fans but Mario fans who have lost interest because of the changes.


Sorry I dont mean to sound offensive its just yo gotta differenciate teh 2 systems cuz the GBA did NOT help GC one bit and teh DS wont help the REV either, REV has to haev its own AAA games or else it will fail.


And every single Mario fan I know who quit playing Mario games all say the same thing, they want a 2d side scrolling game because THATS what Mario is to them. I agree also. And getting it for DS is going to be awesome sure but it wont do anything for the peopel who want to play on thier TVs on thier consoles. I would be fine eitehr way personaly 3d Mario can be fun, as long as they implement the basic elements form past mario games that have been neglected recently.


I still think that in order for the REv to be the BIG system that Nintendo should want it to be, they not only have to have a big time mario game, but its also has to attract peopel who have lost interest over the years. And I honestly think that tehy should put getting systems in peopel shouses over that games sales for a while and make it a pack in at launch at elast for a few months, to seal the deal for those on the fence.



In addition I also think its more essential for MP3 to be ready than Smash Bros because that will set the standard for FPS games on the systems and will likely distract a lot of the attention Halo 3 will be getting.

Of course it shoudl also be online for to many reasons to list.


Then within the next few months Smah Bros should come out. Perfereable within the first three to four months.

for a truely amazing launch they need a Fantastic Mario game that is both familiar yet provides new content and experiences in addition to showcasing the controls.

They need MP3 more than anything and to be online, they need no less than five decent 3rd party games to offer soem variety but they need themn to be more than just the usualy EA stuff, plus I think Tony Hawks will make a big differnce if they do liek they did with DS and make it online and offer new ways to play.  I also hope for a Star Wars game within the first few months if not at launch because that will sell the system right there, if they can get everything right. It shoud be online and havea  great retelling of the story plus have good lightsaber battles and all the stuff SW fans crave.

[antman100]

I'm afraid some may have missed the point.  I'm not suggesting a Metroid Prime sequel.  You could argue that Metroid Prime wasn't so much of a Metroid sequel as a re-invention.

It's like the SATs.  Metroid Prime is to Gamecube as (blank) is to Revolution.  A game that makes people other than Nintendo fanboys look at Nintendo and need to have it.  Is this a sequel game?  A new franchise?  Nintendogs Revolution?  Probably not.

[Kairon]

This game is Mario Paint.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[couchmonkey]

Hurrah!  Well, I'm really hoping for Mario Paint too, but I don't know if it'll sell the system....not enough on it's own, anyway, since not everyone is artistically inclined.  But I was reading about the old 64DD Mario Artist games, and man those had a lot of promise.  Making my own textures for games, sharing this stuff with other people online...I'm really hoping for something like that.

I agree with you antman, Nintendo needs something like Metroid Prime that makes the system stand out, but figuring out what that would be is not so easy.  Maybe it will be the next Zelda or Mario game, or maybe it'll have to be something brand-new.

[Spak-Spang]

Actually Nintendo Paint or Mario Paint or whatever you want to call it, would be a great system seller as a launch game.  As a game released later in the life it wouldn't help the system much.

Why do I say this?  The game would help present itself as a different kind of console.  It would be a game that would be enjoyable to literally everyone.  Kids, Adults, Women, Men, Musicians, Artists.  Anyone that is creative would love the game. And with the Revolution controller, you can make a really creative and powerful paint program.

If Nintendo had Mario Paint or I would call it Nintendo Paint at release it would be a very powerful game along side Nintendo's regular launch games to bring a new audience and appeal to the system.

Here is what I think would be a great launch lineup.

Nintendo Paint (Adult/non gamer market)
Super Mario Revolution (All ages, classic character, with a new control system.)
Metroid Prime Revolution (Older more mature gamers, seeking a deep game.)
Super Smash Brothers Revolution (The Multiplayer hit of Revolution Wifi.)

And we know Nintendo could easily release another game or 2 at launch.  That would be a very powerful lineup.  Then of course the 3rd parties games that will be available at launch.

[Ian Sane]

"I jsut want to add that it sessential for them to have a Mario platofrmer that is REMENSICANT of the old games. thast whats is going to attract peopel who left, people who stopped playing mario because it changed and wasnt what they rememebered."

That ties in with nostalgia and I think with the download system Nintendo has the nostalgia factor locked.

They might as well focus on making new stuff because with the Rev download system anyone who wants to play a franchise has tons of options at their fingertips.  I'm not saying they should abandon their franchises entirely but why release another Mario Party when three N64 Mario Party games are available for download and a whole whack (is it 4 now?) of Cube Mario Party games are playable on it?  There's definately enough flexibility to cut back.

I don't like ports but surprisingly the GBA did quite well with them.  In 2002 Metroid Fusion was the ONLY non-port first party GBA game released (there was also G&W Gallery 4 but that's kind of a port too) but that didn't affect sales.  I don't like it but Nintendo seems to be able to satisfy most people with the older games.  So if I want to play a Mario Kart game that plays like Super Mario Kart Nintendo doesn't have to make it because the original Super Mario Kart is already there so Nintendo has more flexibility with a Rev Mario Kart.  It gives them more room to experiment and not feel pressure to release another franchise game that maybe they just don't have any ideas for.  On the Cube everyone wanted a Star Fox game.  Nintendo farmed it off to Namco and it sucked.  If Star Fox and Star Fox 64 were readily available on current hardware at a low price there might not be as much pressure for Nintendo to provide as many sequels which frees them up for other projects.

Though I agree that anything done on the DS has no bearing on the Rev.  They're two completely different systems.

[Spak-Spang]

Bill you said that you don't see Nintendo launching more than 3 games at launch because it will eat into sales of each other.  Usually that is true.  The one time it isn't true is launch games.  

I think Nintendo NEEDS to have atleast 5 games they have developed and published out at launch of the Revolution.  If Revolution can have even more games the better.  Launch period needs to have a solid lineup that proves to consumers and gamers we are a solid choice for your money.

Launch games have a history of selling well throughout the life of the system.  And with Nintendo we know that droughts happen right after launch.  Droughts are not as bad when your initial launch lineup is large enough that people did not pick up every game available for the system.  It means there will be something new for them to buy.  

Five to Six games is what Nintendo really needs to push out just from themselves, and hopefully with 3rd party games we can have between 12 to 20 games out for the Revolution within 4 months of launch.  

Sure several games will be third party and not worth purchasing, but the image of having several games out at launch or close to launch is very important for the success of any new system.

About Nintendo needing games that feel like classics.  That is why you use the classic characters.  Don't limit gameplay because you are using a classic character, but push the gameplay to the limits and create something new and special with that character and you will get the "Retro" remberance gamers and the a new following of fans that love the new experience.

[Plugabugz]

What i want is for the games to coded with the Europeans in mind first, and then make the rest of the world wait for us.

[animecyberrat]

I mostly agree SPak, and with Ian somewhat but with Marioits different, and I certianly wasnt meaning Mario party because frankly Im getting sick of it as a series. I was only meaning Mario as a Platformer, game play shoudl NOT be like old ,but it should "FEEL" like mario, all i want, and Im not alone, is for the basics to return, Bricks, Mushrooms, Koopas, Goombas, things like that, and a viarety of levels not entirely based on 1 theme.


Also Mario has always been about JUMING on enemies, and the last 2 mario games replaced jumping with Punching (64) and shooting (sunshine) neitger game truely satisfied, Mario 64 more so than Sunshine but still both were missing some basic elemnets that could have eaily been added.


I also agree that a bigegr launch line up is all around, especialy considering that some of the best selling games for GC,even today, are launch titles. And if Ninty leanred anything last Gen its they cant rely too much on 3rd parties cuz they just dont care.

[trip1eX]

A successful launch lineup means having a hit game.  I don't know if that's possible or not since launch games often have short development times.  But that's what it means to me.  Is there a title that comes out at launch that's a must have and sells consoles?  A title that folks say I must buy the console for that game.  That's the an ultimate success there.

The 360 had a solid lineup in that it had it's bases covered and what not.  But I don't think there was a title  that sold more 360s.  It was more the '360 is the shiny new thing so I'll get it and hey, what games should I pick up for it?  Give me a that and this one.'  

[Spak-Spang]

I agree that Mario needs to stay Mario.  But the themes of Mario I believe are little broader than just bouncing of enemies and platforming.  

But the key element of Mario is JUMPING.  And Nintendo knows that.  Look at the Mario RPGs.  They joke and make light that Mario is known for jumping.

I actually believe Sunshine was a step in the right direction into getting Mario Back into Jumping.  It took the punching element away, and the shooting element was there, but it wasn't the dominant means of eleminating enemies.  In fact all the special areas made you beat the level with no aid, just your jumping skills.

I want a Mario game that gets back to those basics, and also fire flowers.  I think Big Mushrooms aren't important to Mario as much anymore, as Super Mario DS showed how silly that can be in 3D.

Last,

Nintendo hasn't ever relied on 3rd parties, but they definately learned that lesson not this generation but the Nintendo 64 generation.  Remember, when Nintendo began expanding game divisions, and buying smaller companies/partnering with other companies to make exclusive titles.  I think what Nintendo learned this generation is WHO you partner with and HOW is just as important as just partnering with companies to get a large exclusive number of games out.  Silcon Knights created 2 games that were duds for the Cube even though they are heralded as great games.  Sega proved that they can still make great games with F-Zero.  And Nintendo learned that Rare although heralded as an amazing company is too inconsistent and takes too long to develop games to be reliable.  How many games did Rare get out for the Xbox?  Exactly.