Author Topic: Blizzard discrimination in WoW (Read 16937 times)

Shin Gallon · « **on:** January 31, 2006, 07:45:03 PM »

Apparantly it's okay to create pro-Christian guilds in WoW, or any other type of "pro-something" guild...as long as it's not a pro homosexual guild. I find double standards to be in very poor taste, and this just gives me yet another reason to not play their overrated graphical-chatroom-disguised-as-a-game monthly fee moneypit.
Jerks.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:08:34 PM »

I don't think you can write a serious article and call it Blizzard vs gaymers.

I declare the topic void for joystiq being f'ing retarded.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:10:53 PM »

Way to completely disregard a serious topic. My guess is that you aren't yourself homosexual and therefore are adopting a "it doesn't affect me, so I don't care" additude?

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:19:26 PM »

No one sane plays WoW anyway, so it's not a total loss...

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:24:43 PM »

MMO administrators are terrible people and this is nothing new. This topic is also dangerously close to the forbidden zone of forum topics as per the rules, but I'll wait and see for now

Artimus · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:28:03 PM »

It's rather inexplicable really. But then again, look at Ty's response to this thread, its the same as Blizzard's essentially.

I think this shows a much larger problem within games in general though, their incredible and disgusting sexism (booth babes, par exemple). This particular case is flat out descrimination, no other word for it.

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:32:05 PM »

The solution is clear: never play WOW again, ever

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:34:09 PM »

"Again"? I never played it in the first place ; )
I just thought that Blizzard's blatant discrimination should be pointed out is all...

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:38:01 PM »

I think most people on this forum are WoW-haters to start with so hey

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:38:52 PM »

Ahaha, PIAC...

...

;_;

Artimus · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2006, 08:59:18 PM »

It worries me people don't care about stuff like this.

What if it was African Americans or women they were saying this about? 50 and 100 years ago it would've been.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2006, 09:05:05 PM »

See, that's pretty much a perfect parallel. Homophobia is the last socially acceptable form of bigotry, unfortunately.

Arbok · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2006, 10:38:00 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Shin Gallon
See, that's pretty much a perfect parallel. Homophobia is the last socially acceptable form of bigotry, unfortunately.

Have to agree, and I'm getting very tired of seeing all of the Brokeback Mountains topics in most forums getting derailed thanks to someone having to come in and tell everyone that homosexuality isn't "right" or, most often, "moral". Thankfully, I doubt this will happen to this topic, or even here at all for that matter.

I'm fairly dissapointed in Blizzard in regards to this, although I also don't play WoW like most here. However, it's not because of a lack of interest, I loved Diablo and StarCraft, but more because I'm against paying monthly fees for games.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2006, 11:57:05 PM »

Wasn't the logic just "Outing yourself as homosexual makes the I LOVE HALO 2s think insulting you is cool and we don't want such harrassment in our game"?

wandering · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2006, 12:14:28 AM »

What Blizzard is doing isn't so much discriminating (well, I guess you can call it that, too) as it is bowing to discrimination. While immoral, this is, at least, understandable. Afterall, PGC has the exact same policy. If you created a thread in pgc titled "let's discuss issues affecting the gay/lesbian community" with a rainbow-flag avatar, as per PGC policy, the thread would be locked, and you might get banned.

It was the same situation with basketball before that one coach put a bunch of black people on his team (you know, disney made a movie about it?) Other coaches weren't racist (well, okay, I'm sure alot of them were), in fact, a lot of them put black players on their teams. But they didn't want to deal with the crap that ensue if they did the right thing and only looked at player-skill, so they didn't.

And the reason so much discrimination exists towards gay people is that people today wrap their own discrimination in morality. Of course, from a rational perspective, if you're a Christian, you should have the same attidudes towards gays that you do towards people who don't accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Of course, a lot people don't, because, while it's socially unaaceptable to discriminate against Jews, you can still turn on the news (well, fox news) and hear things like "Is Brokeback Mountain getting too much praise just because it's gay? Fox News investigates!"

...This isn't surprising. Homosexuality is scary! Most of us, in fact, have at least a little in the way of homosexual urges. And the most vile of hatreds often comes from hatred of oneself.

Oh, I thought this line (in the article) was brilliant:

Quote
Blizzard's argument in making this threat: bringing up such touchy subjects in the game world ultimately devolves into a nasty shouting match that creates a negative atmosphere for all players. By forbidding public discussion of such topics, Blizzard believes the game will be a more pleasant place for everyone. After all, who wants games to be invaded by bigots wielding incendiary placards? (No word on whether Blizzard also recommends that players who have created characters with darker skin tones immediately delete said characters and reroll as unpigmented characters. Darker skin tones invite racist remarks, after all, and we musn't create a negative game environment.)

KDR_11k · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2006, 12:47:43 AM »

I think we really have a right to complain, posting on a board that forbids politics and religion to be discussed in order to reduce flamewars...

Pale · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2006, 04:11:30 AM »

:Gets in line:
MMOs suck!

blargh

couchmonkey · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2006, 05:18:51 AM »

Speaking of Fox news, their headline about our recent elections was "Canadian Voters End 13-Year Liberal Presidency". We have no president, and it was more like 12 years.

I tend to agree that homophobia is the latest acceptable form of discrimination, but I don't know if it will be the last. This is a shame, anyway.

I've never played an MMO, WoW looks okay to me, but I have plenty of games on my Nintendo systems to keep me busy.

S-U-P-E-R · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2006, 05:38:19 AM »

Quote
What Blizzard is doing isn't so much discriminating (well, I guess you can call it that, too) as it is bowing to discrimination. While immoral, this is, at least, understandable. Afterall, PGC has the exact same policy. If you created a thread in pgc titled "let's discuss issues affecting the gay/lesbian community" with a rainbow-flag avatar, as per PGC policy, the thread would be locked, and you might get banned.

The difference here is we aren't all pro-Christian stats game guild either

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2006, 05:48:18 AM »

"Way to completely disregard a serious topic. My guess is that you aren't yourself homosexual and therefore are adopting a "it doesn't affect me, so I don't care" additude?"

No, I don't play World of Warcraft and therefore am adopting a "it doesn't affect me, so I don't care" attitude.

My point is, the title of that article helps nothing. If anything, it makes things worse. Come back and talk to me when someone's going to be f*cking serious about it.

Shin Gallon · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2006, 06:38:30 AM »

So...a slightly punny title negates the very valid point the article is making? Ad hominim attacks are very poor debating tactics, as well as being fallacious.
Trust me, I'm extremely serious where any form of discrimination against me might occur, as is the case here. Do I play WoW? No, I don't. Will it affect me directly? No, it won't. Does it still piss me off? You bet. And the fact that it's discrimination against any group of people anywhere SHOULD be enough to piss you off as well, but obviously the troubls of others aren't enough to concern you in your little sheltered world.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2006, 06:53:10 AM »

"What if it was African Americans or women they were saying this about? 50 and 100 years ago it would've been."

Technically there's a difference. I'm not condoning anything but a person's sexuality is based on their thoughts and actions. It's like a part of their personality. Gender or skin colour is something that no one has any control over and it doesn't define you as a person. Your sexuality does define who you are. Discriminating someone because of their sexuality is like discriminating someone because of their religion or political views or moral views or their basic outlook on life. Now I don't think it's fair to make any blanket statements about people. Your opinion of someone should be on an individual basis. But I think anything to do with someone's opinions or actions or thoughts is open to moral debate and shouldn't be regarded in the same light as gender or skin colour or what country you're from. The fact that I'm white and male and have brown hair and am 5'10 and was born in Canada doesn't really have any bearing on who I am. But the fact that I'm hetrosexual and Catholic and I like videogames and play guitar does. You can judge me based on those things because those characteristics contribute to my opinions and beliefs and how I think and what I do.

I don't think Blizzard should discriminate but I think anyone should be free to do so if they want to provided they're willing to take any negative publicity that might bring them. If you don't like it don't play WoW or buy Blizzard products. It's a free country and you have to power to do that. As unfair as it might be I think any private enterprise should be free to discriminate. Why can't I hire whoever I want or allow whoever I want into my club or serve whoever I want? My reasons might seem unfair or even stupid but it's my decision. If I lose business or attract a bad reputation that's the risk I run.

The reason this is such a big issue is because homosexuality is big politically correct issue right now. If Blizzard said that no one could make a pro-religion guild (like how PGC doesn't allow religious discussion) there wouldn't be as big of a stink about it because religious rights isn't a politically correct issue right now. On the flip side if homosexuals discriminated against hetrosexuals no one would care.

One thing that's really funny about this is that people only freak out about stuff like this if it relates to some sort of organization or business. Yet an individual is allowed to pick their friends or who they date based on any criteria regardless of how superfiscial or illogical it might be. If you ever suggested that it be illegal for someone to not be friends with someone because of what you percieve to be discrimination people would say you're nuts. But if it's a faceless organization that sort of idea is widely accepted. The only group I think should not be allowed to discriminate is the government because they're supposed to look after the interests of the entire country. But anything else is free to do it even if they seem to be unfair about it. If you take things too far then no one is allowed to have an opinion about anything.

Cap · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2006, 06:55:01 AM »

personally, i'm more offended by the fact that they do allow pro-christian guilds to exist, then the fact that they dont allow pro-gay guilds to exist. everyone has the right to their own beliefs or way of life, but i dont want to be hit over the head with either of them when i'm playing games. i play games for enjoyment, not for social commentary. i like planetgamecubes policy where they just dont allow the topics that will, inevitably, create arguments.

blizzard has put themselves in a bad position by essentially "picking sides".

of course....i dont play WOW, like most here it seems. a question to anyone who might know. does blizzard allow other pro-religious guilds to take place, or is it just christian?

Artimus · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2006, 07:12:11 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Technically there's a difference. I'm not condoning anything but a person's sexuality is based on their thoughts and actions. It's like a part of their personality. Gender or skin colour is something that no one has any control over and it doesn't define you as a person. Your sexuality does define who you are. Discriminating someone because of their sexuality is like discriminating someone because of their religion or political views or moral views or their basic outlook on life. Now I don't think it's fair to make any blanket statements about people. Your opinion of someone should be on an individual basis. But I think anything to do with someone's opinions or actions or thoughts is open to moral debate and shouldn't be regarded in the same light as gender or skin colour or what country you're from. The fact that I'm white and male and have brown hair and am 5'10 and was born in Canada doesn't really have any bearing on who I am. But the fact that I'm hetrosexual and Catholic and I like videogames and play guitar does. You can judge me based on those things because those characteristics contribute to my opinions and beliefs and how I think and what I do.

That just isn't scientific fact, though, Ian. Your point relies on the fact that sexual preference is totally nurtured, which is at the very least not agreed upon, and at the very worst wrong. Afterall, there are same sex relationships in the animal kingdom as well, a place where there is no logical enviromental factor for it to exist. Children feel their first physical (I won't say sexual) attraction long before they understand any concept of sexuality. Sexual attraction is a natural part of you, its not decided or developed. It is no different than eye colour, skin colour, tone of voice, dexterity or any of a hundred different physical traits you cannot change. The only difference is that it isn't outward.

Religion, politics and the like are belief systems and values, not part of your physical makeup. The discussion of those is naturally going to be heated and rough. The issue of 'properness' of homosexuality is also a political/religious issue, but actual homosexuality isn't in the slightly. Blizzard could in no way ban people from having 'African American friendly' guilds, because being African American isn't political. People might make racist issues from it, but being it isn't anything more than nature. Likewise with homosexuality. That there is a debate regarding its natural level, its legality and all those shades of descrimination doesn't change the natural state of being a homosexual.

What Blizzard is saying is that instead of punishing people for descrimination and hate mongering, they're going to punish the victim. Banning politics and religion (like here) is one thing, those are chosen values. It also makes sense to ban a thread or poll asking people their sexuality (or race and really gender too) as it is irrelevant. But to ban a group of people from being 'GBTL friendly' because people might descriminate against them for it, is punishing the victim. If Blizzard was serious about descrimination they would ban those who make the comments, not the ones being attacked.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2006, 07:20:40 AM »

"And the fact that it's discrimination against any group of people anywhere SHOULD be enough to piss you off as well, but obviously the troubls of others aren't enough to concern you in your little sheltered world."

Don't hold me to your moral expectations, alright? Talk about bigotry.

My qualm is not with the title, stupid though it may be. It's working yourself up over something so trivial. Now, it's undoubtedly part of a bigger problem, but you've got to face that problem head on. It's no use worrying about a game when you have job discrimination and a controversy over same sex marriage. Even if this problem is fixed, that helps nothing. If the larger topics are dealt with directly, these insignificant details will follow along. You don't want to clean the stain in the carpet when you haven't got a roof.
Not saying it's not important. I'm just saying I really don't care about guilds and World of Warcraft.

News:

Author Topic: Blizzard discrimination in WoW (Read 16937 times)