Author Topic: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller  (Read 30066 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2005, 07:59:51 AM »
"You mean like how manual aim is pointless if you could just as well implement autoaim and have the player just push a button?"

Manual aim isn't pointless.  The aim directly relates to how you move the remote, like a mouse.  It's analog aiming.  I mean assigning digital commands to gestures.  Imagine if the game just let you aim in four places (left, up, down, right) and you could pick where it aimed by making gestures with the remote.  There really would be no point because you don't actually have real motion control.  Your gesture is then no different than a button push only it's less accurate (you could have meant to gesture "aim left' but the game interpreted it as "aim up") and causes fatigue.

"I mean, aside from Zelda, the general public doesn't give a crap about GameCube, so whether it comes out tomorrow or a year from tomorrow it doesn't really matter. Sure, the delay annoys die-hard fans, but despite their bitching they'll still be first in line to buy it."

I think there's some importance in pleasing your fans.  Despite what people think Nintendo fans don't just blindly accept everything Nintendo does.  Nintendo's market share shrinks every generation.  With every console Nintendo's annoying bullsh!t drives more fans away.  My patience is pretty much spent.  I'm not likely going to buy a Rev at launch and I plan on waiting to see if Nintendo actually improves for once or if it's the usual underachievement.  Transitioning smoothly from one console to another is very important.  Nintendo lost a ton of fans to the PS2 last gen because for months there were no games released on any Nintendo console and people sitting on the fence said "f*ck it" and bought a console that was available in stores.  How can anyone have faith in a Nintendo console if all of them die out before the next one is released.

The Rev SHOULDN'T need this as a killer app.  If Nintendo doesn't have a REAL killer app cooking for launch then the Rev is screwed anyway.  Plus it's not like anyone has to buy a Cube for Zelda.  The Rev has always been backwards compatible.  So why not keep the existing fans happy instead of jerking around a fanbase whose patience is running pretty damn thin to begin with.  I'm really sick of waiting all the damn time and I know I'm not the only one.

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
RE:Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2005, 08:49:25 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
Then they shouldve just make the game for Revolution from start and save all their lies from us. This isnt a huge plus, because as amazing as the game will be, it will still be seen as old generation, as I said, this will hardly make or break the console, if Revolution really needs TP to be succesful then the console itself is doomed.


That's a very easy thing to say while you sit on the sidelines. Nintendo would've needed 3 years of perfect foresight to do what you accuse them of doing. And especially how they were'nt dead set on the controller's exact functions until late summer 2005, it's patently impossible.

Besides, I disagree completely with Zelda being seen as a last gen game on the Rev. Heck, IGN couldn't tell the difference between X360 graphics and current gen graphics on a standard tv. With Zelda: TP already looking more "beautiful" than most other games out there, if it becomes attached to the Revolution than it will be quite easy for it to be associated upwards. And especially given the strength of the franchise, I think that it'll do perfectly fine among both hardcore gamers and casual gamers, and even maybe non gamers regardless. (Of course, this is all assuming that Zelda: TP and the Rev launch close enough to each other, a month or two, to benefit from the other's association)

As to the Rev needing Zelda:TP to succeed, I fail to see the logic in this line of thought. How can you possibly say that Nintendo wanting to put as much muscle as possible in the Revolution launch is a bad thing? Regardless of whether or not the Rev has SSBMR or Mario128 or Mario Paint or Metroid Prime 3 at launch, Zelda:TP can be nothing but a plus for the Rev's launch line-up, nothing but a plus for developers trying to adapt traditional games to it, nothing but a plus for gamers who realize that the world doesn't end in 6 months, and nothing but a plus for a console that will be a do-or-die thing for Nintendo.

I mean, seriously, is this just disappointment that we may have to wait longer for Zelda? Nintendo has ALWAYS delayed their games for whatever reasons they saw fit, and for any Nintendo fan to draw the line in the sand at this point is ridiculous. I mean, I felt impatient back in the N64 days when fanboyism was fanboyism. But now, I've grown up enough to realize that my loyalty is earned NOT because I'm a fan being serviced, but because I'm a customer who can think for himself and STILL appreciates what Nintendo is trying to do. I just feel confident that Nintendo will do what they need to do to make their vision of gaming come true, and myself as a Nintendo gamer will have nothing to do but reap the benefit.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Requiem

  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2005, 09:17:57 AM »
You bring up one of the best points Kairon, though I don't think you meant to.

Is Nintendo using Zelda as a template for Action-Adventure games for next-gen? Assuming that Mario, Metriod, and the Camelot RPG (announced well over two years ago) launch with the REV, that's four huge titles in four different genres. And assuming that all four of those games are nothing less than spectacular, couldn't they "show the way" to third-parties trying to do the same thing?

Maybe Nintendo thought it would be too late to show how an Action-Adventure game should truely work on the REV, assuming Zelda REV comes out a couple years after the REV launches. Maybe that's why they added this specific functionalty and are launching so close to the REV.

We've said it before. Nintendo needs to get the ball rolling right out of the gate. It needs to show us how games are revolutionary in many different genres. Zelda can now claim the adventure genre, with the rest following suit.

The more I think about it, the more this move is pure genius!  
"Hey....

I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

Qoute of the Summer

Offline mantidor

  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
RE:Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2005, 12:44:51 PM »
"That's a very easy thing to say while you sit on the sidelines. Nintendo would've needed 3 years of perfect foresight to do what you accuse them of doing. And especially how they were'nt dead set on the controller's exact functions until late summer 2005, it's patently impossible."

Thats one of the points that makes me doubt how good these new features will be, its last minute thing, the game wasnt made with 3D motion sensing in mind. Zelda is a big standard and in general Nintendo games are so good that we forget about the interface, but is the most important part of the games, is its core, if it wasnt for the GC controller, Metroid Prime, Mario Sunshine, Pikmin or The Wind Waker would be completly different games with completly different gameplay mechanics. Thats the reason I think this isnt going to yield the best results. I mean Im sure it will be interesting, a flashy thing to show, but thats just a "g!mmick". This word has such a negative connotation that we even censor it here, but I dont think it necesarly means its a bad thing, my problem with the issue is that its a g!mmick I dont want and I think wont add anything at all to the game, for all intends and purposes mini games in Zelda are g!mmicks, but they are awesome, if they delay the game to add a hundred more minigames I wouldnt be as upset as I am now.

"Besides, I disagree completely with Zelda being seen as a last gen game on the Rev. Heck, IGN couldn't tell the difference between X360 graphics and current gen graphics on a standard tv. With Zelda: TP already looking more "beautiful" than most other games out there, if it becomes attached to the Revolution than it will be quite easy for it to be associated upwards. And especially given the strength of the franchise, I think that it'll do perfectly fine among both hardcore gamers and casual gamers, and even maybe non gamers regardless. (Of course, this is all assuming that Zelda: TP and the Rev launch close enough to each other, a month or two, to benefit from the other's association)"

Sometimes I forget that people in general still see next gen as better graphics, so it was hasty of me to say that people would see the game as old generation. Thats because for me next gen isnt about graphics, its about 3D motion sensing! I personally will see the game as last gen, and you know, if Nintendo delivers, Im sure everyone else will share my thoughts.

"As to the Rev needing Zelda:TP to succeed, I fail to see the logic in this line of thought. How can you possibly say that Nintendo wanting to put as much muscle as possible in the Revolution launch is a bad thing? Regardless of whether or not the Rev has SSBMR or Mario128 or Mario Paint or Metroid Prime 3 at launch, Zelda:TP can be nothing but a plus for the Rev's launch line-up, nothing but a plus for developers trying to adapt traditional games to it, nothing but a plus for gamers who realize that the world doesn't end in 6 months, and nothing but a plus for a console that will be a do-or-die thing for Nintendo."

Ive never said is a bad thing for Nintendo, is bad thing for me, because Im going to have to wait for added features I dont want. And besides as Ive said many times the Revolution doesnt need this, the controller is amazing and this is a waste of its functions. Like adding analog stick functionalty to a Link to the Past or Super Mario World.


"I mean, seriously, is this just disappointment that we may have to wait longer for Zelda? Nintendo has ALWAYS delayed their games for whatever reasons they saw fit, and for any Nintendo fan to draw the line in the sand at this point is ridiculous. I mean, I felt impatient back in the N64 days when fanboyism was fanboyism. But now, I've grown up enough to realize that my loyalty is earned NOT because I'm a fan being serviced, but because I'm a customer who can think for himself and STILL appreciates what Nintendo is trying to do. I just feel confident that Nintendo will do what they need to do to make their vision of gaming come true, and myself as a Nintendo gamer will have nothing to do but reap the benefit."

Again, if they delayed the game to add more content in the "traditional" sense, I wouldnt mind, but they are delaying it for features I dont want! citing my example above, what if they'd delayed a Link to the Past to add analog stick functionality? it wouldve suck! we were getting Ocarina of Time anyway.




Of course, all my rants are more like speculation on my part, maybe porting Rev features is indeed a fast process (I personally wont believe a word Iwata, Films Aim, Kaplan or Miyamoto ever say again, so I dont care if Iwata said in an interview it was fast when they did MP2, I simply wont blindly believe in that anymore), maybe the delay is really to make the game bigger. Ill just have to wait anyway, I have no other choice, and I still Im pretty pissed off if the delay turns out to be true.
"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
RE:Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2005, 01:19:13 PM »
ANYWAYS...

Well, one application I can see for the revmote is early on in the game demos. Remember that charging goat that link has to dodge while he's still working at the ranch? The rev mote would be an amazingly natural match for that particular gameplay mechanic.

As for anything else, lol, I haven't experienced enough real Zelda: TP to even speculate. Wait...I can speculate... I shouldn't but I can't resist! The revmote would be great for specifying which side Link swings his sword at while mounted. It'd be a simple push of a button to swing the sword, but whether link swings at the enemy on his left or on the right depends on how you've titled your rev controller...

AGH! Baseless speculation! SAVE Meeeeeeeeeeeee.....eeee....ee...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Shecky

  • Posts: 0
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2005, 04:32:04 PM »
Ugh...

Blinders off please!

We will not get two games for the price of one.  We will not see all these cool applications with the freehand controller to the main game play for a game that needs to function properly on the GC.  The amount of work and changes to the game mechanics would essentially make playing TP on the GC one game and playing it on the REV completely different.

All of the cool applications will be in a different game with the mechanics to support it.

(How about this... for every cool feature that you all think of -- _including_ the resulting changes in game play in terms of player control, enemy behavior alteration, AI, and environment -- tell me how it would be done effectively and to the same efficency with a GC controller. )

Offline odifiend

  • "Who's the tough guy now Vinnie?"
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2005, 06:20:38 PM »
How would the extra features affect how much gameplay could be fit on the Zelda disc?  If Nintendo truly wants this to be worth a damn, they are going to have to flesh out a stellar control scheme.  If it is simple translation of buttons inputs to motion, it isn't a big deal - but at the same time that is just emulation and a wasted effort.  From all reports, the Revmote is amazingly precise and as such I'd imagine the more complex nature of input would require its own coding.  It would be a travesty if dungeons had to be cut out of a Zelda game again due to outside interference.  

It would be cool though if this was the first first party game that was multiple discs.
Kiss the Cynic!

Offline IceCold

  • I love you Vanilla Ice!
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE:Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2005, 06:53:54 PM »
Quote

It would be cool though if this was the first first party game that was multiple discs.
Not happening... Nintendo is extremely proud and won't admit that it was wrong to go with a smaller medium, and that two discs are needed for a game. Same as why all their games on the Rev WILL use the NRC...

Besides, Nintendo are the masters of squeezing games into meda.  
"I used to sell furniture for a living. The trouble was, it was my own."
---------------------------------------------
"If your parents never had children, chances are you won't either."
----------------------------
"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by the candlelig

Offline odifiend

  • "Who's the tough guy now Vinnie?"
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2005, 07:19:27 PM »
Nintendo has eaten quite a bit of humble pie and has comment even on their choice of media.  Would it really matter though, since it is the last forray for the GCN?
I don't really care as long as no compromises to the game are made due to the inclusion of the Rev features... if this rumor is true (but nobody at PGC seems to be denying or even admiting as a rumor : O).
Kiss the Cynic!

Offline mantidor

  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2005, 08:16:28 PM »
I dont want a multiple disk Zelda, it would imply linearity, and that would suck.

edit: oh god, I shouldve add, merry christmas to you all! I cant believe Im actually posting tonight
"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline Requiem

  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2005, 08:38:09 PM »
Well they could always make one disc have the GC controls and the other the REV. That way it would stay open-ended.

Problem Solved.


Truth to who ever said this news seems a little far-fetched. I always thought changing the controls was superficial, and never considered what it might do to the game's core. If the game has to be modified internally in order to use the REV, e.g. re-coding AI and such, then I can see reasons to skip an idea such as this one.

However, I also gave some thought to what Nintendo's motive could be. There are many good aspects for doing such a thing....I won't get into them, but let's say that I could provide a nice rebuttal to any good argument. If in fact TP's revisions do take alot of time to finish, they have plenty of time to finish and polish it.
"Hey....

I'm not a whore, ok? Really.....really, I'm not.

But, if she slips man....if she slips, I slide!"

Qoute of the Summer

Offline odifiend

  • "Who's the tough guy now Vinnie?"
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2005, 09:56:56 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
I dont want a multiple disk Zelda, it would imply linearity, and that would suck.

edit: oh god, I shouldve add, merry christmas to you all! I cant believe Im actually posting tonight


Tales of Symphonia had 2 discs and I want to say every place that was accessible on disc 1 was accessible on disc 2.    I'm no expert on splitting games onto multiple discs but I've seen a couple of examples where being multidisc didn't restrict the game's freedom.
Kiss the Cynic!

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2005, 11:18:29 PM »
Ian: If it was just gesture recognition and mapping that to button inputs they wouldn't need much extra time for that. Besides, Die By The Sword used direct sword control via the numpad, I think people liked it.

I wouldn't be worried about the Rev's userbase being smaller than the GC's, it has garnered a LOT of attention from the mainstream and hardcore. Look at the Cube. What reason did that thing have to exist next to two other consoles just like it? The Cube lacked defining features. The PS2 had PS1 compatibility and the most momentum with publishers, the XBox brought a new concept to online gaming. The Cube had neither. It had connectivity (which was too expensive for most people to use and lacked games) and the Gameboy Player (if you want a Gameboy Advance you can buy one of those and use it anywhere), hardly reasons to buy a console over.

Next gen changes the tables. The game catalog differences might reduce (at least MS will initially be able to match Sony's), online isn't new anymore and all three offer it, the only console with defining features is the Rev now. It has the new controller. The Rev hardware has a reason to exist while the x360 and PS3 are almost completely interchangeable.

Zelda TP won't take up two discs, the GC can't hold a lot in RAM so there won't be a lot of space taken up by game contents and since Nintendo doesn't use any linearly streaming stuff (music except for MIDI, voice, videos) there won't be that much material. I've heard claims that Wind Waker was roughly 300MB in size. I've also heard that all of FF7's discs included all of the game content except for the videos.

Offline odifiend

  • "Who's the tough guy now Vinnie?"
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #63 on: December 25, 2005, 07:44:49 AM »
Nintendo does use linear cinema in Zelda games and it looks to be more so in this one.  If WW was only 300MB that is truly amazing.  I thought OoT took up most or all of the larger 256MB so for WW to only be ~50MB more is crazy.  I don't know if compression on carts is more limited, but I'd assume going for photorealism is that much more information.
Kiss the Cynic!

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #64 on: December 25, 2005, 08:23:08 AM »
Linear videos aren't necessarily streamed. While there were a few short videos in Wind Waker (I think they were videos, e.g. the frozen fire island effect) it was nothing longer than a few seconds. No big videofiles, no big audio data, etc.

There are no 256MB cartridges for the N64. Perhaps you mean Mb, which is one eigth as much as an MB.

Offline odifiend

  • "Who's the tough guy now Vinnie?"
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2005, 02:59:00 PM »
My bad.  I know the difference between an Mb and an MB, but I truly thought it was a 256MB cart.
From the preview videos I've seen, this Zelda does seem to be more heavy in videos for things that establish the atmosphere (taunting monkeys, boar boss riding away and boulder moving).
Kiss the Cynic!

Offline mantidor

  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #66 on: December 25, 2005, 05:17:26 PM »
But those are very different that FMV, the space they use is minimal. Nintendo has used in game cutscenes rendered with the game engine as opposed to prerendered movies for the longest time with very, very few exeptions
"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline IceCold

  • I love you Vanilla Ice!
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE:Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #67 on: December 25, 2005, 05:22:50 PM »
Yeah, that's why Sunshine was such a big surprise...
"I used to sell furniture for a living. The trouble was, it was my own."
---------------------------------------------
"If your parents never had children, chances are you won't either."
----------------------------
"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by the candlelig

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #68 on: December 25, 2005, 06:41:50 PM »
The ending in WW starting where Link and Tetra wake up in the middle of the ocean to be picked up by their pirate friends and going to the end of the credits was FMV.  Everything else was rendered in-game.  
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline mantidor

  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2005, 03:50:32 AM »
That was really odd, its not like there were millions of characters onscreen to need to use FMV, the final battle is easily more impresive and heavy in terms of visuals and it was done in real time with no problem in frame rate or anything similar.
"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline mantidor

  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2005, 12:19:28 PM »
anyways, any confirmation? would nintendo be kind enough to at least release some screenshots like when they announced the previous delay?
"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2005, 01:11:37 PM »
Realize that Nintendo is never that nice.

~~~~~

The final battle only had 3 characters to show and hardly any background to render.  The ending, had a sizable variety of characters... but I think they stuck in the video cuz EAD was trying to meet deadlines, and didn't want to spend time optimizing framerates while perfecting animations.  And it pisses me off, cuz I love my endings/credits that show you the game's cast and locales, like Mario64 did, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask.  I wasn't pleased to see Mario Sunshine's credits.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline ThePerm

  • predicted it first.
  • Score: 64
    • View Profile
RE:Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2005, 02:23:06 PM »
windwaker only used midi...but tp is orchestrated
NWR has permission to use any tentative mockup/artwork I post

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2005, 02:46:48 PM »
That's not entirely accurate.  It was only mentioned that TP would include pre-recorded orchestrations, and MIDI was not ruled-out.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline mantidor

  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
RE: Twilight Princess to Use Revolution Controller
« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2005, 03:48:53 PM »
For being MIDI it sounds great. I hear dragon's roost island and the staff credits song everyday and its easily on par with some soundtracks that use real instruments.

And now that you mentioned it the credits were indeed better before, Ill never forget Super Mario 3 / Super Mario World credits.
"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro