Topic: Lost

[vudu]

Showing bits and pieces of random stuff without tying them together in any meaningful way does not count.

Yeah, maybe Lost isn't really your speed ... that stuff is meant to be tied together with your brain. I would hate Lost if it held your hand and walked you through explanations the way you seem to want it to.

Great; now my intelligence is being insulted by forum members and staff alike.

I agree with Adrock; you're taking the bits and pieces that we know and extrapolating it to one possible answer and basing your arguments around it. 

[ShyGuy]

For you, Lost is like Fire Emblem. It's a great game, but I don't have the patience to wade through it.

[gbuell]

I guess I just don't understand what other possible conclusions you guys think are reasonable given the same set of known facts. I apologize for sounding condescending. Saying "Lost isn't your speed" wasn't very constructive, and wasn't really what I meant. What I mean is, a show like Lost, which delivers lots of questions and usually only delivers answers via subtext and expecting viewers to come up with their own conclusions, isn't for everyone, and I don't think it SHOULD be for everyone. Everyone likes different things and I understand that. I just don't understand getting angry or upset at something that just isn't your cup of tea. There are lots of things that aren't my cup of tea, like RPGs or heavy metal or comics, and I don't get angry or upset when those things aren't what I want them to be.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Season 6 has been fantastic so far, and really it has felt like it has been wrapping things up for awhile, especially exploring the two biggest components, Jacob and as we now know, the smoke monster. The reason for them being brought to the island is coming together. Since season 4 I've felt they were heading to an end game, everything seemed much more plotted and planned, similar to the previously brought up DS9 in its final seasons. The writers are stuck in a tough spot, and while some may be their fault, a lot of the blame can be placed at the feet of fans who want all the answers gift wrapped and handed to them, instead of coming to their own conclusions for various things. The pieces are there, it is just too bad the writers are being forced to spoon feed, seriously I do not doubt the revelation about Adam and Eve skeletons and how it was handled with the flashback, wasn't done to poke fun at some of the fan base.

[Adrock]

I actually liked that Adam and Eve scene with the flashbacks. I thought it was done well artistically and thematically. I've read that a lot of fans felt like the flashback to season one was cheap, but I got the impression that people were missing the point. I thought it was an interesting way to bring things full circle. It highlighted the opposition between Locke and Jack, faith vs. science.

Anyway, I think the writers wrote themselves into a position where information is spoon fed to the audience in order to advance the plot when, with better planning, could have been revealed in a better, more clever way. There's a lot of stalling, a lot of false starts and, thus far, abandoned subplots. Again, I ask what exactly did Ilana add to the show. An interesting character with a loaded backstory, but nothing else. Ab Aeterno was one of the best episodes of the series, but for the 9th episode of the final season, it spent a lot of time telling the audience like 3 things. 1. Richard came to The Island on The Black Rock. 2. Jacob made it so Richard doesn't age. 3. A metaphor attempting to explain what the island. I don't need to be spoon fed information. However, I would like enough information in order to draw a logical conclusion, not 5 logical conclusions. And this has been said before, but not everything needs an explanation but I am a little confused over the priority the writers are giving certain mysteries. It was nice to know who Adam and Eve were, but ultimately, there are more pressing matters.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of the show and for the most part, they've done well in almost every aspect of the show. However, I feel like some things are being handled poorly which is normal. The writing is spotty in places. Big deal. It's still better written than most shows on currently on TV. RIP Wonderfalls.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I actually liked that Adam and Eve scene with the flashbacks. I thought it was done well artistically and thematically. I've read that a lot of fans felt like the flashback to season one was cheap, but I got the impression that people were missing the point. I thought it was an interesting way to bring things full circle. It highlighted the opposition between Locke and Jack, faith vs. science.

Anyway, I think the writers wrote themselves into a position where information is spoon fed to the audience in order to advance the plot when, with better planning, could have been revealed in a better, more clever way. There's a lot of stalling, a lot of false starts and, thus far, abandoned subplots. Again, I ask what exactly did Ilana add to the show. An interesting character with a loaded backstory, but nothing else. Ab Aeterno was one of the best episodes of the series, but for the 9th episode of the final season, it spent a lot of time telling the audience like 3 things. 1. Richard came to The Island on The Black Rock. 2. Jacob made it so Richard doesn't age. 3. A metaphor attempting to explain what the island. I don't need to be spoon fed information. However, I would like enough information in order to draw a logical conclusion, not 5 logical conclusions. And this has been said before, but not everything needs an explanation but I am a little confused over the priority the writers are giving certain mysteries. It was nice to know who Adam and Eve were, but ultimately, there are more pressing matters.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of the show and for the most part, they've done well in almost every aspect of the show. However, I feel like some things are being handled poorly which is normal. The writing is spotty in places. Big deal. It's still better written than most shows on currently on TV. RIP Wonderfalls.

I agree, you know what I think contributed a bit? The writers strike back a couple years ago, it caused them to shorten up one season and back end this season with more episodes. Really the best seasons of TV I've seen have had shorter seasons that were more focused, I worried about filler episodes or "stretching things out" when I heard about more episodes being added to the final two seasons of Lost because of the strike. Really though the final two episodes will be the test, not in answering a ton of questions but seeing if they can give the series a decent, fulfilling end.

[Plugabugz]

No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?

To deal with what?

Everything you guys have been speaking of.

[Spak-Spang]

Personally, I think the backstory was interesting, and very laired.  Here is my take on the episode...and I guess there will be spoilers, I don't know how to spoiler tags, but if you are watching LOST and in this thread you have already seen this episode.

1) The mother had a task to do.  Like pushing the button, it was a tedious task that has weighed on her heart, and she was ready to pass the responsibility on.  She caused the pregnant woman to come to the island, to raise a replacement for her.  I believe she was truly surprised that their were 2 babies.

2) The mother had more in common with the man in black.  She was a liar and a murderer.  She saw that he was not naive (like Jacob) and not innocent.  I think she saw herself in him and wanted him to be the guardian.  She didn't want him to leave, because she needed someone to take her place, and he was her pick.  Also, she believed the outside world was tainted...and possibly, possibly she truly believed there was no way off the island.

3)  Secrets:  One of the themes of Lost is the theme of secrets and how they can destroy relationships, kill people, and cause great harm.  Since the first season secrets has been kept and it has been detrimental to everyone on the island.  The woman for some reason did not want to share her knowledge of the place.  Either she didn't know herself or she was keeping secrets again.  Those secrets hurt both Jacob and the Man in Black.  She never prepared either of them for their true tasks.

4)  The Man in Black and Smoke Monster.  People are looking at them as the same person.  I think it is safe to say that they are not the same person.  The real Man in Black died after Jacob pushed him into light.  Now his soul may be trapped in that monster, but the Man in Black's body is dead.  This is an important distinction because the reason MIB can't leave the island as a child is different than why Smoke Monster can't leave.  If the Smoke Monster leaves evil or darkness will spread across Earth, and this evil can potentially corrupt and destroy the everything in the world....if you believe Jacob. 

5)  Going back.  I find their Mothers interesting.  She states she made it where they can't kill each other.  Yet, they can hit and hurt each other...yet she did not protect herself from death.  Why?  She wanted to die...and she knew Jacob could never do it.  She was tired and thankful that MIB killed her.  Too bad, Jacob couldn't understand. 

Last episode was good, if not great, it gave us many answers, and added to the mythos of Lost while keeping with the continual themes of Lost...and I think the episode continued to do a good job balancing the science with the spiritual.     

[gbuell]

No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?

To deal with what?

Everything you guys have been speaking of.

They've been dealing with things all season...

[gbuell]

However, I would like enough information in order to draw a logical conclusion, not 5 logical conclusions.

I think that's exactly what we're being given. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

[Plugabugz]

No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?

To deal with what?

Everything you guys have been speaking of.

They've been dealing with things all season...

Everything prior to the last ep (from episodes 1-14, except the Richard one) has had the broader aim of shuffling around everyone like chess pieces to the big reveal. The only thing that was revealed properly without 50 other questions (like the numbers in the cave) was with Michael and the ghosts.

[Plugabugz]

Did you really have to edit my post for that?  :

[gbuell]

Whoa, sorry! Wrong button.

[Spak-Spang]

No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?

To deal with what?

Everything you guys have been speaking of.

They've been dealing with things all season...

Everything prior to the last ep (from episodes 1-14, except the Richard one) has had the broader aim of shuffling around everyone like chess pieces to the big reveal. The only thing that was revealed properly without 50 other questions (like the numbers in the cave) was with Michael and the ghosts.

Actually this is what frustrates me about Lost fans.  They want answers, and forget that the story isn't about the answers, but about the characters.  One of the best aspects of Lost was watching the characters piece things together.  Sometimes you knew something the characters didn't and would be like "They're screwed."  Or sometimes certain characters had information others didn't and you saw how each reacted to it. 

For example one of my favorite scenes is in Season 3.  Sawyer has just found out they are on another Island.  Jack doesn't know this and he decides to make a big play to save his people.  And cuts Ben open.  Ben only has minutes to live...and Jack is hoping that time will be used to get Sawyer and Kate to safety...except they can't leave the small island.  Brilliant.

This show has always been about processing the information given and figuring it out.  Sometimes it is left for the audience to decide meaning.  Therefore what is important is not what is really happening.  But what the characters believe is happening, and how they react.  That said we have gotten a lot of answers this season.  Some of the more harder to conceptualize has been spoon fed to us.  Others have been contextual.  But the answers are coming.  And the characters have been behaving more naturally and believable since season 4. 

Finally, I think it is important to realize each season has a theme.  The first season was about the mystery.  The second was about realizing you are not alone and a battle for survival is building.  The third was about the others and who they are.  ect....This season is about Jacob and Ben, but more importantly about following through with destiny and taking that step to belief and renewal of yourself and your identity. 

Why are you back on the island, what is important to you, what do you believe about the island and yourself?

And so far it has not only seen the characters go through those questions but us as well.  Specially with the sideways universe which we thought that coming to the island was the BEST thing that could happen to them...but their lives were not as messed up before the island as we believed.

[ShyGuy]

L O S T


Good episode, good buildup. Ben is back, but I don't think he is evil, just conning the smoke monster. I don't think Richard is dead yet. Widmore and Zoe got what was coming to them. Jacob finally spilled the beans and the remaining candidates got to talk to him face to face. I guess Jack has super powers now?
The flash sideways was even better and Desmond is a boss! Locke is gonna get fixed and all the candidates are going to let go and wake up. Bring on the Sunday finale

[GoldenPhoenix]

L O S T


Good episode, good buildup. Ben is back, but I don't think he is evil, just conning the smoke monster. I don't think Richard is dead yet. Widmore and Zoe got what was coming to them. Jacob finally spilled the beans and the remaining candidates got to talk to him face to face. I guess Jack has super powers now?
The flash sideways was even better and Desmond is a boss! Locke is gonna get fixed and all the candidates are going to let go and wake up. Bring on the Sunday finale

It twas a great segway into what should be an exciting series finale.

While I hope Richard is Ok that was so cool how he was hit by the smoke monster lol. BTW I have to say I am glad they don't show Locke changing into it, I think our imagination is better then anything they could do with CGI. You know? This episode just reminds me yet again of what an excellent cast they have. All the regulars are great.

Whitmore getting killed was really surprising too. I also liked how Jack became the candidate, it leaves the series finale free to do more.

[ShyGuy]

I hope they have as many cast members as possible show up in a group during the flash sideways of the season finale, that would be cool.

[Plugabugz]

No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?

To deal with what?

Everything you guys have been speaking of.

They've been dealing with things all season...

Everything prior to the last ep (from episodes 1-14, except the Richard one) has had the broader aim of shuffling around everyone like chess pieces to the big reveal. The only thing that was revealed properly without 50 other questions (like the numbers in the cave) was with Michael and the ghosts.

Actually this is what frustrates me about Lost fans. 

Lost is one of those shows where the island and what goes on there is as important as the characters themselves (back in the pilot, would you be interested if a character falls out of an aircraft or about the polar bear suddenly chasing them?) so they need equal weight to develop and mature properly.

If you were to watch Stargate Universe however, you'd see the polar opposite in which the characters are given so much attention (especially in the opening 10 episodes) it essentially becomes a "drama in a sci-fi backdrop". The Stargate itself, the titular device in the franchise, doesn't even appear for several episodes because the characters are given so much focus and even go back to earth in several cases the story itself feels dangerously slow.

[ShyGuy]

Stargate Universe is supposed to be feel more like BSG, right?

[Plugabugz]

Stargate Universe is supposed to be feel more like BSG, right?

They say no (and to be honest it isn't like BSG, its not depressing) but the comparisons are inevitable. Stargate Universe is FAR more character driven, even though its premise is set on a automated spaceship that is flying farther and farther from earth, its not Star Trek Voyager either.

[vudu]

Why would Locke tell Ben that he's going to blow up the island?  The only reason Ben's helping Locke is so he can have the island to himself!

[gbuell]

Why would Locke tell Ben that he's going to blow up the island?  The only reason Ben's helping Locke is so he can have the island to himself!

Good question, that seems like a bit of a goof on the writers' part to me as well. I'm convinced that Ben is pulling a con on Locke anyway though.

[Adrock]

Yeah, Ben doesn't want The Island. He wants Alex back, which he can't have, and he was reminded again here that he should have chosen her over The Island 3 years ago. I thought the writers did a good job of that without flat out saying it. I mean, he also kills Widmore saying, "He doesn't get to save his daughter." Subtext. It worked here really well. And I thought the Man in Black offered Ben The Island because he doesn't need it once he escapes. He needs Ben to kill the next guardian like he needed Ben to kill Jacob, but using Desmond to destroy The Island probably still allows him to escape. I didn't mind the ambiguity here because the writers are clearly going to explain this in the final episode... right?

Anyway, I get the impression that Jack being The Island's new guardian is a red herring. He's either going to give up the position to someone else (Ben) or find a way for The Island to no longer need a guardian (destroy the Smoke Monster/trap him on the island forever). If there's a little bit of the Source in each person, maybe the point is for people to regain whatever it is, thus negating the purpose of The Island and its need for a guardian. What if Lost was never about a bunch of people lost and stranded on an island, but about something that humanity lost? Weird.

[Spak-Spang]

A good episode.  I remember when the Flash Sideways stories were happening, many people were complaining why.  But, very quickly those Flash Sideways stories were more interesting than the main island story.  And I believe they are going to have a big impact on the events on the island.

As for Ben's motivations...Ben has never been evil per say.  He has always been just about himself.  He wants to survive.  I don't believe Ben ever cared about the island...which is why Jacob never appeared to him.  Instead, Ben has first and foremost been about his own survival.  This is why he is a liar, he can't help himself.  I think Ben is doing what he must to survive.  He doesn't care about the smoke monster, or the island...just his own survival.  The only thing he might of cared about is his daughter but no matter what side he chooses he can't have her back.

I don't think we will see Jack with super powers...that isn't how Jacob works...we never saw him with secret powers.  The image I always get of LOST finishing is Jack and Locke together alone on the island...and the conversation Jacob had with MIB will be repeated.  Except, when Locke says he is going to kill Jack...Jack repeats "Not if I can kill you first." 

Actually there is one other ending I have in mind, but I won't reveal that one. 

[ThePerm]

the rick roll?