Topic: Lost

[gbuell]

Good times.

[Adrock]

Really nice of them to answer a couple of those questions (i.e. donkey wheel, "Adam and Eve" etc.) but seriously, what the hell?


Man in Black: I want to leave the island.
Mom: You can't.
Man in Black: But why?!
Mom: Because.
Man in Black: Why can't I?
Mom: Because you can't.
Man in Black: But I found a way off the island.
Mom: No, you didn't. Wait, what? How? Impossible.
Man in Black: I'll just rig a system of pulleys and levers and use this donkey wheel to move some water so that it reflects the magic light at a 45 degree angle and...
*Mom knocks Man in Black out, buries a cave singlehandedly in a matter of hours and kills everyone*

I was waiting for Allison Janney's character to explain something, anything. It's was all subtext. Tell me you're Taweret or something! /facepalm

[gbuell]

Well, I think his mother simply didn't want him to leave the island because she had given him some "power" (the power of immortality) that shouldn't be let out in the real world. Also, I think she still wanted him to be the one to protect the island.

Yeah, the thing about the donkey wheel was pretty silly, but I kind of think they wrote themselves into a corner with that one. How could they really rationally explain how that works??

I don't have a problem with her torching the villagers and burying the cave - after all, she seems to have the power to create storms to bring people to the island, just like Jacob now has. She gave Jacob her powers, remember.


When this show abandons subtext, the answers seem spoon-fed and forced. See "the whispers" for an example. I'm glad they're letting us figure things out. For the most part, I think they explained what they needed to in this episode - the motivations of Jacob and the Man in Black, and the fact that there's a great metaphysical source of "power" on the island that can do crazy things like grant immortality and turn people's souls into smoke monsters.

[Adrock]

Well, I think his mother simply didn't want him to leave the island because she had given him some "power" (the power of immortality) that shouldn't be let out in the real world. Also, I think she still wanted him to be the one to protect the island.

Jacob gets to leave the island, but I guess that's because he's the guardian. More on subtext later.

I don't have a problem with her torching the villagers and burying the cave - after all, she seems to have the power to create storms to bring people to the island, just like Jacob now has. She gave Jacob her powers, remember.

I guess but she also kills Jacob and the Man in Black's mother with a rock. Just seems inconsistent.

When this show abandons subtext, the answers seem spoon-fed and forced. See "the whispers" for an example. I'm glad they're letting us figure things out. For the most part, I think they explained what they needed to in this episode - the motivations of Jacob and the Man in Black, and the fact that there's a great metaphysical source of "power" on the island that can do crazy things like grant immortality and turn people's souls into smoke monsters.

Subtext only works when what is being explained is understood, not assumed. Here, we have subtext leading to nothing, no concrete conclusions. They don't need to be cryptic anymore. There are 2 episodes left. We're told that if the Man in Black leaves the island, some serious sh*t goes down, but why? If they aren't going to answer that in this episode, don't make it the crux of the episode.

[ThePerm]

There is a wheel in the beginning Conan the Barbarian. Conan is a slave and he spins the wheel for years and years, why? Who knows?

[ShyGuy]

...LOST?

No name for the MIB, pretty sneaky sis. Different origin story than I suspected. She was speaking Latin in the beginning, right? Did the clothes of the "others" give a clue to their origin? They seemed to have a downward facing crescent necklace. The Egyptian statue had to come before all this happened. "Every question will only lead to more questions" LAWLZ

[ShyGuy]

There is a wheel in the beginning Conan the Barbarian. Conan is a slave and he spins the wheel for years and years, why? Who knows?

He was grinding flour at a mill. It was a reference to Samson.

[ThePerm]

are you 100 percent sure? I think I watched the movie with commentary and I thought Oliver Stone was saying he was just spinning the wheel cus it just looked cool.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Very cool. I still wonder when the statue and temple were made, my guess is that they were made after the events of this episode. If I recall there was a reference to the smoke monster in the catacombs a couple seasons back via hieroglyphics. So my guess is that the statue was built AFTER the events of this episode.

Now with the Smoke Monster being the MIB after being dumped into the "heart" of the island, it makes sense now when Locke said he looked at the Smoke Monster back in season one that it he seen into the eye of the island, and later told Eko he seen a beautiful light. It appears the Smoke Monster is made up of the energies of the island, so perhaps in a way he is still very much connected to the heart of the island, just some of it was converted to his form when the body was sent down

[ShyGuy]

Samson in the Treadmill


Wait, was the smoke monster the original MIB or did the smoke monster just take his form and emulate his desires?

[GoldenPhoenix]

Samson in the Treadmill


Wait, was the smoke monster the original MIB or did the smoke monster just take his form and emulate his desires?

Hmmm, good point it is possible, but it seems like it was created when the MIB went into the light (the light even went out

[broodwars]

Really nice of them to answer a couple of those questions (i.e. donkey wheel, "Adam and Eve" etc.) but seriously, what the hell?


Man in Black: I want to leave the island.
Mom: You can't.
Man in Black: But why?!
Mom: Because.
Man in Black: Why can't I?
Mom: Because you can't.
Man in Black: But I found a way off the island.
Mom: No, you didn't. Wait, what? How? Impossible.
Man in Black: I'll just rig a system of pulleys and levers and use this donkey wheel to move some water so that it reflects the magic light at a 45 degree angle and...
*Mom knocks Man in Black out, buries a cave singlehandedly in a matter of hours and kills everyone*

I was waiting for Allison Janney's character to explain something, anything. It's was all subtext. Tell me you're Taweret or something! /facepalm

That's pretty much my reaction to this episode as well.  I actually really enjoy the Jacob backstory, as it's one of the few things that the writers have been moderately consistent about weaving into the show.  And I really enjoyed Allison Janney when she played CJ Craig on The West Wing.  But this story just doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't make sense because the characters won't let it make sense.  Like a lot of things on Lost, there's a lot of running around and screaming and fighting that could have all been avoided if everyone just sat down and the person in the know explained what was going on.  Before this episode, we've been led to believe that the Man in Black could not be allowed to leave the island because he was a thinly-veiled religious allegory for the manifestation of total evil.  Now it's because...he apparently didn't believe in the Heart of the Cards.  Hell if we know, because the Janney character never explains why.  And she doesn't explain why because if she had we wouldn't have a story.  Well, now that his spirit is apparently infused with evil I guess he can't be allowed to leave even more.

And are we really meant to believe that just because the mother never named the Man in Black when he was born before Janney did what she did (which could have been avoided, IMO)?  In all the years they lived together, she never bothered to give him a name?  And why, exactly, does Jacob keep following Janney after TMiB reveals the Truth of their origins?  Jacob and he were obviously close their entire childhood and Jacob was obviously resentful of the Janney character's special treatment of TMiB, yet he stays with her after finding out everything she had done?  That just makes no sense, even if you want to argue that he just really cares for her.  He has no reason to trust her.

Nice to finally have a loose end tied up from the first season, though.

[ShyGuy]

I can see, if a 13 year old was told that his mom wasn't really his mom, but murdered his mom, he probably would stay just because she's the only mom he's known.

How did Child in Black know how to play ancient backgammon? Because he's John Locke!

[gbuell]

It's my thought that the Temple was later built on top of that glowing cave. It makes sense to me that Jacob would have his "followers" (people he brought to the island) build it there. Maybe the magical pool that heals people is connected to that cave.

[ThePerm]

i think you got it, i didn't even think about the pool

[GoldenPhoenix]

I wonder if the cave water could be related to how Ben summoned the smoke monster as well. Perhaps it goes back to smoke monster described as a security system as well. Maybe that is partially what is keeping it there

[Plugabugz]

I haven't even watched it yet but so far from not reading the spoilers i'm getting the impression that this episode is the first moment in the season when the writers went OH CRAP ITS ENDING!

[ShyGuy]

Hey Plugabugz, do you watch the Lost initiative with Iain Lee for Sky1 HD?

[Plugabugz]

Hey Plugabugz, do you watch the Lost initiative with Iain Lee for Sky1 HD?

No i don't.

[Plugabugz]

Having watched the episode, the single most obvious resolution they were aiming for was how the smoke monster was created. Unfortunately in doing so they made more questions than answers and now have only 2 and a half hours left to answer as much as possible.

[ShyGuy]

They won't answer the questions, I'm convinced half the questions won't get answered. They're just not very good at tying things up.

[Caterkiller]

After seeing this episode I got to wondering about something. Some seasons back (I don't know which) Richard took a visit to a young John Locke amd showed him some items. John picked the wrong thing and Richard left all pissed. Does anyone remember what those items were? was anything in that pile from the game Jacob and darkness played?
 
One more thing! I remember Micheal's flash back with baby Walt. The step father didn't want to take care of Walt and told Mike that "things happen when he is around". Anyone know what in blue blazes he was talking about?

[Plugabugz]

They won't answer the questions, I'm convinced half the questions won't get answered. They're just not very good at tying things up.

After seeing this episode I got to wondering about something. Some seasons back (I don't know which) Richard took a visit to a young John Locke amd showed him some items. John picked the wrong thing and Richard left all pissed. Does anyone remember what those items were? was anything in that pile from the game Jacob and darkness played?
 
One more thing! I remember Micheal's flash back with baby Walt. The step father didn't want to take care of Walt and told Mike that "things happen when he is around". Anyone know what in blue blazes he was talking about?

Walt is one of the things that won't get answered.

[Caterkiller]

I hate you Plugabugz! Seriously though, if I don't find out why kids and babies and such are so interesting on that blasted island I will be somewhat dissapoint.

[ShyGuy]

My theory is Aaron by himself was nothing special, The Australian Psychic lied. He was only a pawn to motivate Claire and Kate

The only explanation for Walt is that he has special powers, I'm guessing all special powers in the world are tied into the glowing yellow electromagentic power on the island so he was drawn to the Island just like Ghost Seeing Hurley and Ghost Talking Miles.