Topic: New Miyamato interview (with new info!)

[NotSoStu]

Engadget/Joystiq Miyamato interview

Summary of new Revolution stuff:

"We’ve got something that would be very similar in style and form to the Wave Bird already complete." Sounds like it won't have any new buttons or anything, no new functionality, besides the Revolution motion/gyro tracking.

"The one advantage we have in this area is that the Revolution development can actually be done on the Game Cube development environment." Explanation of why we haven't heard anything about Revolution SDKs going out yet - They're already here.

Nothing else really new, but just pointing it out. The SDK comment is pretty important, personally, in terms of game development and in terms of what the  hardware'll be like.

[KnowsNothing]

The jerk interrupted Miyamoto mid-sentace.

Also, the SDK comment means that Rev games are farhter along than some will have you believe, and it also means that developing and porting games to the Rev will be extrmemly easy and cheap for third parties since they're already well versed in the environment.  That's a huge advantage.  

[Ian Sane]

Miyamoto certainly makes the controller and the Rev sound a whole lot better than Iwata does.  Miyamoto's talking about how the old functionality is there and that they think it's very important to retain it.  Iwata's all like "maybe you should buy a PS3 or X360".  Miyamoto makes it sound way better.

Though while he says the old functionality is retained he doesn't say how.  Does he mean with the shell or does he think the remote has all of the old funcationality?  I hope he's talking about the shell because I am pretty damn skeptical on how that's supposed to work otherwise.  Nintendo method of simulating the analog stick on the DS touchscreen hasn't filled me with confidence in their abilities to map an old method on to a new one.  I think having the old method there as it was is the only way to really make it work perfectly.

The SDK comment suggests to me something fairly similar to the "2 or 3 times as powerful" comment.  Ideally shouldn't a new console be enhanced enough that using the previous console's SDK just isn't going to work out well?  Wouldn't you end up with games that look like they're on the Cube?  It suggests to me that the launch games are going to look pretty dated or the console itself isn't much more than a Cube with a new controller.

Plus relying on third parties to start projects on the Cube dev kit is pretty silly considering that the amount of third parties who actually make anything on the Cube beyond cheap PS2 ports is pretty small.  They have to get Rev dev kits out to devs that DIDN'T make Cube games.  What's already there is scraps in comparison.  They can't improve third party support if they don't make a huge effort to go beyond the existing Cube dev community.

[Spak-Spang]

Ian:  He makes it fairly obvious he is talking about the shell.  He mentions attachments, and then goes out and for the first time describes the mystery shell.  Saying it is very similar to a wavebird, but also moddifed.  

Also how he talked about the shell, its completed, and I have no doubt that developers already know about it, and how to us it.  At least, I think that is implied...but that jerk did interupt him, so he didn't finish that thought.

Now, I also believe we will be seeing other attachments from Nintendo.  Miyamoto seemed very excited about all the possibilities attachments opened up.  

He also mentioned Western design and games specifically talking about FPS...a genre that isn't popular in Japan.  It makes me think Nintendo isn't just aiming for the Japanese market, but also the American.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Quote
Though while he says the old functionality is retained he doesn't say how. Does he mean with the shell or does he think the remote has all of the old funcationality? I hope he's talking about the shell because I am pretty damn skeptical on how that's supposed to work otherwise. Nintendo method of simulating the analog stick on the DS touchscreen hasn't filled me with confidence in their abilities to map an old method on to a new one. I think having the old method there as it was is the only way to really make it work perfectly

Actually he states that the new controller can be expanded to include the functionality of the classic controllers, i.e. the controller shell

His Quote:

Quote
we haven’t really talked too much about how it does have an expansion slot on the bottom of the controller. And what that expansion slot allows for are controller expansions.

From our perspective the Revolution controller is the new controller, everything else is now the classic controller. And with this expansion, you’ll be able to have a classic controller that expands the functionality of the core unit. And to be honest, we’ve already—

The Dash is where the interviewer cuts him off.

[odifiend]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane


The SDK comment suggests to me something fairly similar to the "2 or 3 times as powerful" comment.  Ideally shouldn't a new console be enhanced enough that using the previous console's SDK just isn't going to work out well?  Wouldn't you end up with games that look like they're on the Cube?  It suggests to me that the launch games are going to look pretty dated or the console itself isn't much more than a Cube with a new controller.

Plus relying on third parties to start projects on the Cube dev kit is pretty silly considering that the amount of third parties who actually make anything on the Cube beyond cheap PS2 ports is pretty small.  They have to get Rev dev kits out to devs that DIDN'T make Cube games.  What's already there is scraps in comparison.  They can't improve third party support if they don't make a huge effort to go beyond the existing Cube dev community.

I got the impression that developers could do preliminary work on old GCN dev kits and easily switch to the revoultion kit later since they were similar.  Dated is pretty relative nowadays since I don't think RE4 or Zelda look dated even next to Xbox360 or PS3 screenshots.

While I bet that tons of third party developers have Cjbe dev kits, I have to agree that "those familiar with the environment" would be a handful of devs, at best.  EA is pretty much the only company that still ports to cube right now.

I felt it was pretty interesting to hear Miyamoto talk about the shell.  It sounds like it will be used very often.
 

[Caliban]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Ideally shouldn't a new console be enhanced enough that using the previous console's SDK just isn't going to work out well?  Wouldn't you end up with games that look like they're on the Cube?  It suggests to me that the launch games are going to look pretty dated or the console itself isn't much more than a Cube with a new controller.

DUMBASS!!!!! You could say the same thing about computers and computer games, yet do you see what you suggest happening at all?

[Ian Sane]

"You could say the same thing about computers and computer games"

You're right.  I didn't think of it like that.  You're not right about me being a dumbass though.

How does that work with a dev kit thought?  Can Nintendo just say "add this much RAM" and the developer can just add that to his dev kit?  I'm not sure how that all works.  In order to make use of the increase in hardware Nintendo would have to tell them what's being changed, wouldn't they?

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Quote
In order to make use of the increase in hardware Nintendo would have to tell them what's being changed, wouldn't they?

Well maybe they have, but we wouldn't find out because of the NDA's.

[Ian Sane]

"Well maybe they have, but we wouldn't find out because of the NDA's."

Seems find of weird for Nintendo to keep that sort of thing under wraps when the controller, the very thing they were afraid Sony would steal, has been let out of the bag.  In all seriousness why is Nintendo still keeping the specs under wraps?  What different does it make now?

[Caliban]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"You could say the same thing about computers and computer games"

You're right.  I didn't think of it like that.  You're not right about me being a dumbass though.

How does that work with a dev kit thought?  Can Nintendo just say "add this much RAM" and the developer can just add that to his dev kit?  I'm not sure how that all works.  In order to make use of the increase in hardware Nintendo would have to tell them what's being changed, wouldn't they?

The "dumbass" statement was just so I could catch your attention, sorry!

Remember when at E3 they showed that very very short video of MP3? Well I remember them mentioning something about that footage being done on a modified GameCube. Now factor in that it has been some months since then and that it took some time to do that footage, then I would come to the conclusion that most likely Nintendo sent these specified modifications to every other developer that was interested way before E3. As to what kind of mod they did I have no idea, I guess we can wait until they release NRS specs.

[KnowsNothing]

Quote
While I bet that tons of third party developers have Cjbe dev kits, I have to agree that "those familiar with the environment" would be a handful of devs, at best. EA is pretty much the only company that still ports to cube right now.

Hell, it doesn't even matter if they've worked on the Cube or not, the fact is that a GameCube is loads easier to develop for then the Xbox 360 or the PS3, so there's still a huge advantage.  The hardest part about developing for the Rev will be coming up with innovative ways to use the motion-control, and that's optional.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Quote
Seems find of weird for Nintendo to keep that sort of thing under wraps when the controller, the very thing they were afraid Sony would steal, has been let out of the bag. In all seriousness why is Nintendo still keeping the specs under wraps? What different does it make now?

Make it harder to reverse engineer the Rev Capabilities perhaps?  Yes they showed what the REV can do, but they probably haven't shown everything about how it does what it does.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Quote
Originally posted by: Avinash_Tyagi

Quote
Seems find of weird for Nintendo to keep that sort of thing under wraps when the controller, the very thing they were afraid Sony would steal, has been let out of the bag. In all seriousness why is Nintendo still keeping the specs under wraps? What different does it make now?

Make it harder to reverse engineer the Rev Capabilities perhaps?  Yes they showed what the REV can do, but they probably haven't shown everything about how it does what it does.

It also avoids another speculated Raw #'s vs. realistic real world performance comparison that would make the PS3 look like the beast that it is not in comparison.  

You remember the PS2 vs Cube vs Xbox fanboi spec battle of 2001

[Bill Aurion]

It's because we haven't seen everything yet...

[trip1eX]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

The SDK comment suggests to me something fairly similar to the "2 or 3 times as powerful" comment.  Ideally shouldn't a new console be enhanced enough that using the previous console's SDK just isn't going to work out well?  Wouldn't you end up with games that look like they're on the Cube?  It suggests to me that the launch games are going to look pretty dated or the console itself isn't much more than a Cube with a new controller.

Well they make games on the pc all the time for future hardware.  Half LIfe 2 on the pc was in development for 6 years before it was released.  When it was released it looked state of the art.  It ran on the newest APIs and needed the newest hardware to run good at it's best look.  

Same thing with making a Rev game on a Cube development platform.  It will run slower and/or not look as good when you're developing it.  YOu might take out shadows and AA and AF and various lighting effects while you're testing it on a old platform or again maybe you leave them in and test out at lower frame rates.  When the Revolution kit comes you put all of flick a switch and put all these effects back in.  

This kind of thing is done all the time on the pc to let new games run on old hardware.  IT works in the opposite way too.  

Alot of the new hardware is just about adding various lighting effects to games to make them look better.  

YOu can also make your games with really nice textures but use low res versions in testing until you get the real hardware.  

[KDR_11k]

The SDK comment suggests to me something fairly similar to the "2 or 3 times as powerful" comment. Ideally shouldn't a new console be enhanced enough that using the previous console's SDK just isn't going to work out well? Wouldn't you end up with games that look like they're on the Cube? It suggests to me that the launch games are going to look pretty dated or the console itself isn't much more than a Cube with a new controller.

Plus relying on third parties to start projects on the Cube dev kit is pretty silly considering that the amount of third parties who actually make anything on the Cube beyond cheap PS2 ports is pretty small. They have to get Rev dev kits out to devs that DIDN'T make Cube games. What's already there is scraps in comparison. They can't improve third party support if they don't make a huge effort to go beyond the existing Cube dev community.

The MS "what to do without an SDK" guidelines tell people to use multiprocessor PCs using the Windows API. Does that mean the X360 will be a Windows PC? Of course not. The PC's performance differs greatly from the X360. Obviously you won't make a game with the specs of your preliminary system but what you expect the final system to handle.

Also, it means the middleware the various devs have will remain compatible with minor effort. That means Madden Rev is probably 90% done already.

Many companies have Cube SDKs despite not making GC games or having stopped a long time ago. How many companies have never touched the GC? Not too many.

In all seriousness why is Nintendo still keeping the specs under wraps? What different does it make now?

NDAs basically say "you won't talk about things we haven't talked about yet". Until Nintendo officially talks about the specs, none of their licensees can do it. Since Nintendo has no real interest in talking to the gamers about specs (what can they do with it except compare them to other specs that might actually perform worse becausse of bottlenecks that are not necessarily obvious from the specs and even if wouldn't be understood by the average fanboy?), that NDA point won't go away.

[Djunknown]

First off, it was a good interview. Why the interviewer cut him off is beyond me. You just don't do that to Miyamoto. If he did that to , you know what'd happen...

All this spec stuff has to stop. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Its how many games they have. If visuals were all that really mattered, the Xbox would be a much closer number 2. Even casual gamers aren't that shallow...

Hopefully they'll keep slowly but surely leak Rev details like this. Not really important stuff mind you, but just these little things to keep Rev in the public eye. It could be trivial like the Rev will launch with 2 colors, the Rev controller will use X batteries or be rechargeable, etc.