Author Topic: Shadow of the Colossus  (Read 22170 times)

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Offline nickmitch

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2005, 01:22:34 PM »
Well, there's the parents buying games for their kids theory.
Wait, that would mean that they are actually reading the MSRP labels!!!!
Oh, praise be to !

But, it'll only be a matter of time before they want GTA and mommy can't stand the crying.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2005, 08:09:31 PM »
I thought they put only the actual price on the pricetag, not the MSRP (manufacturer suggested retail price?)?

Offline Svevan

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2006, 05:07:20 PM »
Sorry I'm late to this party! Recently beat SotC and it may have displaced a couple games that I usually claim are the best ever made. Here's a quick analyzation, with MASSIVE SPOILERS.

Shadow of the Colossus as Fantasy: The very first theme that strikes us with power in SotC is that of fantasy. The world and characters are foreign, their interactions even moreso. The rules and history of the story are left out (the sword, Dormin's true nature, the relationship between the sword and Dormin, the relationship between Wander, Mono, and the shaman) deliberately to enhance our sense that this world exists on its own and we get only glimpses of it. While exploring the world we see glimpses of a culture or society that seemed to have rules that we will never know. Their structures at one time had purpose but they are now dilapidated and functionless. Their history is as vital to the plot as any other element, but it remains mysterious throughout. The game is true fantasy in that its plot is moving and universal even though its details are tantalizingly absent.

Shadow of the Colossus as Mystery-Narrative: Along with the mysterious "rules" of this fantasy universe is the mystery of the plot. (Who are the Colossi? Where did they come from? Who is Dormin? Who is the Shaman?) Satisfactorily, this mystery gets resolved for us in the end, but as we progress through the game we come to question the character's motivations and Dormin's. In the end we discover that as true as Wander's motivation was, Dormin's was evil and he took advantage of Wander. Absurdly, the game does absolutely NOTHING with its plot for the entire game. We are given a set up and the mystery grows as things are NOT explained. Because of Dormin's claim that destroying the Colossi may cost Wander a great deal, we race to the end to find out why. This is masterful Hitchcockian suspense storytelling that involves us as players since progress is in our hands. This mystery narrative, therefore, demands the participation of the player to keep its suspense. As a film, SotC would fail.

Shadow of the Colossus as Religious Manifesto: Wander is a religious rebel - Mono has been sacrificed, but he rejects this typical "mortal" way of death and dying, and demands a resurrection in defiance to the Shaman. He believes he is taking advantage of a great God, Dormin, who merely wants to destroy lesser gods around him, and each Colossi represents the Japanese conception of a god. That each one has a weak point is also typical to this pagan view, since each is ultimately fallible, nothing more than powerful men/animals. At first SotC seems to be a story about man conquering God, when in reality it is about a Demon exploiting man at the expense of divine order. If there is a real God, or a group of benevelont Gods in this world, we never hear from them. Perhaps Dormin was this benevolent God himself, but breaking him into 16 pieces was an act of defiance by his people. Or perhaps he was an evil being, but this seems to go against the existence of an altar that he inhabits, known as The Shrine of Worship. Whatever the interpretation, SotC is constantly bringing up questions about the nature of man and God, particularly with Wander absorbing the spirits of the Colossi and eventually becoming the vessel for Dormin's rebirth. This is a quintessentially pagan perspective, brilliantly developed by the game's story and gameplay.

Shadow of the Colossus as uCatastrophe: uCatastrophe is a term borrowed from Tolkien. It is the opposite of a catastrophe which is a terrible event that happens unexpectedly. A uCatastrophe is a glorious, sometimes divine event that also happens unexpectedly. Tolkien's basis was the death of Christ, which in biblical terms was Satan's doing, but God ultimately used, even planned it for the redemption of his people. In this sense, Dormin's exploitation of Wander was an evil act, but since the Shaman destroyed Dormin and left a baby (meanwhile Mono is revived, and Agro is still alive!), it seems that a greater force was working here. The ending indicates hope for a new world to grow on this once forbidden land - perhaps Dormin's work of evil will actually bring about prosperity? I need to play Ico and find out.

Anyways, those are my thoughts. Anyone else who has played the game care to critique or comment?  
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2006, 05:20:31 PM »
Requesting Shadow of the Colossus as video game.
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Offline Svevan

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2006, 05:22:36 PM »
I think I covered that.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2006, 07:01:48 PM »
Well I didn't read alot of your post Evan because you dislike Donnie Darko, hehe joking, actually it is because I have yet to beat the game! The game is definately a good, quality game, though I do feel it is a bit repetitive (I said BIT not really), and there is way too much nothing for my taste. Not only that but I do not care for the framerate at all, it is horrific in areas and it does distract from the gameplay. It makes me wish that the game was delayed for PS3 which could have handled the visuals much better. With that all said it is a unique, and fun game but I'm not sure I would call it the best (I'm not a big fan of Ico either), but that could be because I am tired of all the depressing and dark games out there.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2006, 07:33:37 PM »
I agree with VG. The game is pretty good, but would've been better off as a PS3 game. I fell asleep numerous times while playing this game because there is nothing engaging going on up until you find a colossus. No music, no life, nothing, plus it always seems dark and depressing like VG also said.

Had they filled the world with some quests and some small enemies along the way to the colossus, and perhaps some small villages, I think this game would've gone from pretty good to great or amazing.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2006, 08:25:28 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
I agree with VG. The game is pretty good, but would've been better off as a PS3 game. I fell asleep numerous times while playing this game because there is nothing engaging going on up until you find a colossus. No music, no life, nothing, plus it always seems dark and depressing like VG also said.

Had they filled the world with some quests and some small enemies along the way to the colossus, and perhaps some small villages, I think this game would've gone from pretty good to great or amazing.


Well if the rumors are true, there could be a sequel in development for PS3 and that is one out of very few reasons to get one. I would like to see more life and more to do there, I realize the point is "isolation" but you can achieve that without a totally dead landscape with only Collosus to fight!
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Offline Smoke39

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2006, 08:35:46 PM »
Yeah.  Like Metroid.
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Offline Svevan

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2006, 08:45:17 PM »
I disagree heartily. A huge empty overworld demands to be treated differently. Instead of stopping my horse because I thought there may be a powerup or an enemy, I only stopped when I wanted to look at something. That is far more in line with how we treat real geography - we don't expect anything from landscape other than for it to exist. That kept the world of SotC living and breathing far more than people or enemies would have.

After all, we're talking about a completely dead civilzation and a forbidden land - emptiness is necessary. I really felt the sense of isolation this game was trying to convey, much unlike the dark world in LttP, or the future in OoT, or any other similar game world. By removing all other characters and enemies the game emphasized that I was the only one who could accomplish this task, and that was a frightening thing to consider. Combined with the size of the Colossi, it just felt right. In some ways I think SotC is an artistic examination of size in general.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2006, 08:53:09 PM »
Hyrule Castle in Wind Waker shows you can achieve isolation without a colossus.
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Offline Svevan

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2006, 08:57:41 PM »
For a short period of time and with a completely different aesthetic choice. Really Pro, I don't see how that matters. WW chose to communicate something akin to isolation for roughly five minutes. Does this really make it better than SotC? Nope, not at all. Stop fanboying up our boards.
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Offline IceCold

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2006, 08:59:32 PM »
It's... a game.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2006, 08:59:35 PM »
I think the real problem with the game is that it kind of isn't a game. I mean of course it is a game, but it is so different from every other game ever created. It's more like an interactive painting. You get to walk around in the world of the painting an experience the different parts of it without ever really playing anything. I found that while I played the game I was more in awe of the size of the colossi and how they reacted to my characters motions than what I was actually doing with the controller. I still would've rather had this on the PS3 just for the smoother frame rate and an even more beautiful world.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2006, 01:12:33 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
For a short period of time and with a completely different aesthetic choice. Really Pro, I don't see how that matters. WW chose to communicate something akin to isolation for roughly five minutes. Does this really make it better than SotC? Nope, not at all. Stop fanboying up our boards.


Then I present to you the idea that the emptiness and isolation in SotC was intentional to accomodate the technical contraints.  RE4 PS2 had to turn trees into POPSICLE STICKS to save the framerate.  Imagine SotC's fluidity had it actually had significant environmental activity.  ACTUALLY, here's something more logical:  the world is empty ANYWAY simply to reserve enough computing resources to accomodate the Colossi themselves (and maintain playability), since inherently they ARE environments.  Just one of the many factors that lead to the final art direction.

"Does this really make it better than SotC? Nope, not at all. Stop fanboying up our boards"

Where the HELL are you getting this conclusion from?  I posted 1 sentence that suggests another game presents its own moment and perspective of isolation.  (mentioning "colossi" as an artistic factor in my statement doesn't even MAKE SENSE in the argument).  Where in that do you find an outright put-down of SotC?  Where in the bloody MUSHROOM KINGDOM did I thrust WW to higher pedestal over SotC?

I'm not 100% serious around here.  When did you get 110.3% sensitive?  That's your first warning.  I don't want to ban you.
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Offline blackfootsteps

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2006, 04:01:24 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mr. Jack...
Had they filled the world with some quests and some small enemies along the way to the colossus, and perhaps some small villages, I think this game would've gone from pretty good to great or amazing.


Well the lizards and apples did provide a minor (and annoying) distaction between colossi.

Overall it was a fantastic game and once you get past the technical limitations the experience sucks you in. I think the lack of a continual musical score was suitable for the mood the game was providing. The sound of the wind playing really made me feel very alone in such an interesting varied landscape.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2006, 07:07:41 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
For a short period of time and with a completely different aesthetic choice. Really Pro, I don't see how that matters. WW chose to communicate something akin to isolation for roughly five minutes. Does this really make it better than SotC? Nope, not at all. Stop fanboying up our boards.


Stop being a fanboy yourself and drooling over the game as an "artistic masterpiece", that is what I always hear from Sony fans. It gets quite tiring hearing how amazing it and Ico are artistically, it is almost a buzz word used amongst Sony fans in attempt to explain away the technical and gameplay problems the game obviously had (and I do think Pro has a point the land is empty because of hardware). The point is that the game is a one trick pony, and could have used more diversity, as it stands the game is "climb to Colossus weakpoint, button smash to attack, go to next one, button smash and repeat"
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Offline Svevan

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2006, 03:47:33 PM »
I want to clear the air before I end up looking like a real prick (too late). Pro, my response to you was a kneejerk reaction to what I thought, and still do think you implied. I was rude, I thought it was appropriate, and I got you riled which I guess was my intention. But meh, I don't like to fight, just argue, and your points below are juicier than your one-sentence quasi-trolling. So I'm going to respond to what you said and also throw out an apology - sorry for ill will, for rudeness, and over-sensitivity.

From Pro:
Quote

Then I present to you the idea that the emptiness and isolation in SotC was intentional to accomodate the technical contraints. RE4 PS2 had to turn trees into POPSICLE STICKS to save the framerate. Imagine SotC's fluidity had it actually had significant environmental activity. ACTUALLY, here's something more logical: the world is empty ANYWAY simply to reserve enough computing resources to accomodate the Colossi themselves (and maintain playability), since inherently they ARE environments. Just one of the many factors that lead to the final art direction.


Factoring a system's strengths into art direction isn't wrong, but the isolated perspective of SotC matches the plot and themes so well that I can't put that horse before that cart. Even if the limitations of the PS2 necessitated that the world be entirely empty, it still WORKS and the system's need for a sparse overworld created an excellent aesthetic device. In this same way, RE4, like most RE games, mostly takes place in small rooms. Only occasionally do we branch out into gigantic areas, and even then we can only move through them linearly. I have never seen a world as big as SotC in any other game, even next gen, and that includes the handful of hours I've spent with Oblivion.

Quote

"Does this really make it better than SotC? Nope, not at all. Stop fanboying up our boards"

Where the HELL are you getting this conclusion from? I posted 1 sentence that suggests another game presents its own moment and perspective of isolation. (mentioning "colossi" as an artistic factor in my statement doesn't even MAKE SENSE in the argument). Where in that do you find an outright put-down of SotC? Where in the bloody MUSHROOM KINGDOM did I thrust WW to higher pedestal over SotC?


I don't understand why you would mention such a specific part of WW in direct comparison to SotC without intending to put SotC down. But if you say you meant to merely add to the conversation, I submit that my response was wholly inappropriate.

Quote

I'm not 100% serious around here. When did you get 110.3% sensitive? That's your first warning. I don't want to ban you.


I know you're not serious all the time. Hell, I love your posts. I felt like you were intruding on a good discussion (albiet lopsided since I tend to drown other people out, sorry all) with antagonistic sarcasm at the expense of an excellent, worthy game. I reacted harshly, and for that I'm greatly sorry. Shouldn't have been so sensitive and your criticism of me is valid.

And to VG, geez, sorry to get you riled too. =) But I'm no fanboy - I just bought a PS2 two weeks ago. A beautiful game is a beautiful game, be it on the PS2, Xbox, or GC. I got over that a while ago, but I don't feel everyone here has.
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Offline IceCold

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2006, 04:06:36 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
For a short period of time and with a completely different aesthetic choice. Really Pro, I don't see how that matters. WW chose to communicate something akin to isolation for roughly five minutes. Does this really make it better than SotC? Nope, not at all. Stop fanboying up our boards.
I find it quite funny that you use the word "our" when describing the forums, first implying that Pro isn't a part of them while you are..
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Offline Smoke39

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2006, 04:48:21 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
For a short period of time and with a completely different aesthetic choice. Really Pro, I don't see how that matters. WW chose to communicate something akin to isolation for roughly five minutes. Does this really make it better than SotC? Nope, not at all. Stop fanboying up our boards.
I find it quite funny that you use the word "our" when describing the forums, first implying that Pro isn't a part of them while you are..

Not really.  If both you and I own something and I'm addressing you, how would I say that that thing belongs to both of us if not by calling it "ours"?
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2006, 06:05:56 PM »
I need to raid a PS2-owning friend's room and see what's so special about this game in that it's become more annoying to Nintendo fanboys than Metal Gear Solid.

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2006, 07:34:35 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
I need to raid a PS2-owning friend's room and see what's so special about this game in that it's become more annoying to Nintendo fanboys than Metal Gear Solid.

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It doesn't annoy me, I just feel it is overrated same with the MGS but even at that I would still give it an 8/10 since it does have some charm. The visuals really hurt it for me because I truly dislike poor framerates, they ruin my interaction with a game (which is why I really disliked PD for N64).
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Offline Nick DiMola

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2006, 06:58:24 AM »
"The visuals really hurt it for me because I truly dislike poor framerates, they ruin my interaction with a game (which is why I really disliked PD for N64). "

Ouch no Perfect Dark love from VG. Maybe I'm a fanboy but Perfect Dark is one of my favorite games of all time. Hell I bought a 360 just to play PD0(which wasn't 1/10 as awesome as PD).

Anyway SotC was a good game, but I felt it could've been more. I thought Ico was better, but both are just kind of bland. Nothing is going on to convey how epic everything is. A game that tries to be all cinematic needs a cinematic touch like engaging music, and some other stuff moving in the world other than your damn character (lizards and crows don't count). I always felt riding Epona through Hyrule in OoT was epic and it was just the cool music and the sound effects of Epona and Link. But I am a Nintendo fan for a reason, and I'm sure some of that fanboy in me tends to cloud my judgement a tad bit when observing other games.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2006, 10:51:24 AM »
The only thing I remember about OOT and plains is constantly rolling for minutes at a time just to get across that big field of boredom.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Shadow of the Colossus
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2006, 12:12:41 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The only thing I remember about OOT and plains is constantly rolling for minutes at a time just to get across that big field of boredom.


Really? Personally I loved the wide open field, especially at night which was kind of creepy with those things coming out of the ground.  I also remember how cool it was to see those big twirling monsters flying around.
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