Topic: Dynamic pricing for rev games?

[wandering]

Some people have expressed concern that Nintendo will charge us 50 bucks for short/low budget/glorified tech demo games. Well, Iwata is here to ease your fears.

I found this on penny arcade's forums. From Spiegal Online, translated with babelfish:

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Iwata: I think, we should prepare a dynamic price margin, from which the consumers can select. Dependent on the size and the volume of the project, we want perhaps different preisklassen. For masterpieces like "putting OF Zelda" we will require perhaps as much as our competitors, but depending upon software we will use different prices.

heh....'putting of zelda'

[IceCold]

Sounds good to me...can't wait to see the variety.

[Artimus]

I sincerely hope so. But at the same time I hope it's a good mix.

[KDR_11k]

Consider this the official introduction of episodic console games to the western world.

He also said " I personally asked Shigeru Miyamoto to design a new Mario game but he has not replied yet. [...] As a gamer I believe we need a new Mario game at launch".

[couchmonkey]

In that case, it sounds like the Mario team really is just kinda sitting around and experimenting.  That's good, but man, I want GAMES!!  This isn't a huge surprise, we've already seen it with Donkey Konga, Wario Ware and DK Jungle Beat on the GameCube.  Heck, I think DKJB was well worth full price, but I'm not complaining if Nintendo wants to price it lower.

[Don'tHate742]

They did it because it had to be played with drums, which also costs money. So it SEEMED like they lowered the price, but they really didn't (unless you own both JB and Donkey Konga).

[Ian Sane]

Dynamic pricing is a good idea.  However the Rev must launch with a fully priced game and it has to be WORTH full price.  Charging less for games with less depth to them is good but they can't launch with just a bunch of $30 games that can be beat in a weekend.  They need one big epic.  That's what the Cube was missing.  The flagship title was too short.  I felt ripped off because I rented Luigi's Mansion for a week and beat it in the first two days.  I shudder to think what it was like for people who paid $50 for it.  They can't have something like that again.  They need something BIG.  The N64 analog stick took off because it had the mother of all games as the flagship title.  The Rev controller needs something with that kind of "how did we ever get by without this" selling power to establish the new design as a good idea.

Miyamoto experimenting is not a good sign if that's what's happening.  He should have a brilliant game idea that inspired the new controller in the first place.  If not the remote IS a gimmick.  A great controller is created by great game ideas requiring their design.  If they're just trying to make something innovative but have no actual idea for it they're in trouble.  That's what happened with connectivity and that played a big part in why it bombed.  They had this neat idea but there were no ideas that required the feature's creation.  So when they had to show off a real idea they had a Pac-Man game that they had to package in for FREE with other games because they knew no one would buy it on it's own.  That can't happen with the remote.

If you design the controller first and then try to think of ideas for it you run the risk that the ideas won't be any good.  If you think of the idea first then you KNOW if it's good or not and can get a better idea of how well the controller is going to work out.

I think the DS touchscreen suffered from the same problem.  Judging by the VERY poor launch lineup which included a port as the flagship it's clear to me that Nintendo thought of the touchscreen first but didn't have a real idea ahead of time to inspire it.  It seems to be working out okay for them now but for those first six months I thought they were screwed.  If the PSP wasn't such a gong show they probably would have been.  The Rev doesn't have the luxury of being able to "wait" until a good idea does come along.  It's launching after at least one competitor and likely after both of them AND it's following a "flop" console instead of a near 100% market dominating Gameboy.  They need good ideas at launch.

[PaLaDiN]

Yeah, they definitely need good ideas at launch. I doubt Miyamoto can pull off something before launch though, unless he and Iwata have been intentionally misleading people and Iwata's "as a gamer, a Mario game at launch is essential" comment carries actual weight.

Failing Mario, if they can pull off Smash Bros. in a way people fall in love with... or better yet, if Retro can get MP3 ready by then, because we all know how a FP game at launch can sell the console... I'm sure they'll be fine.

Both games were announced back at E3 with the revealing of the console itself. I'm sure they must have played some part in the controller's design... wouldn't be surprised if the nunchuck attachment was a direct result of MP3.

[Bill Aurion]

The fact that Iwata confirms the fact that he knows of the importance of the FPS genre pretty much guarantees Metroid Prime 3 for launch, or at the very latest the launch window...

[Hostile Creation]

"He should have a brilliant game idea that inspired the new controller in the first place. If not the remote IS a gimmick."

That is a completely ridiculous statement.  Moronic even.  It would be a gimmick if they created the controller based on ONE game, not vice versa.  I imagine they have several games in mind, not including the obvious SSBR and Metroid Prime 3.  Keep in mind the DS did have game ideas from the start, they just didn't make launch for fine tuning.  Hopefully they'll learn from that mistake and get the games out for launch.

[Ian Sane]

"It would be a gimmick if they created the controller based on ONE game, not vice versa."

No, it would be a gimmick if they created the controller based on ZERO games.  That's what I meant.  That they designed this remote thingy with a vague plan of being "innovative" but had no actual ideas for it ahead of time.  Yes obviously designing a controller for only one game can be limiting but that's still better than having no ideas at all.  I'm hoping they had several well planned ideas (as in they've actual been working on the game, not just thinking about it).

"Failing Mario, if they can pull off Smash Bros. in a way people fall in love with"

I think Smash Bros is too multiplayer focused.  I think they might need something that a single player can get some serious play out of.  Plus SSB's appeal is largely because of all it's Nintendo references.  Non-Nintendo fans (like those non-gamers Nintendo seems so focused on) aren't going to "get" SSB as much as the rest of us.

"The fact that Iwata confirms the fact that he knows of the importance of the FPS genre pretty much guarantees Metroid Prime 3 for launch, or at the very latest the launch window..."

Metroid ain't no FPS and I sure as hell don't want to see it become one.  I'd prefer it if they made a new FPS franchise and kept Metroid as it's supposed to be instead of dumbing it down for all the jerks that didn't give Metroid Prime a chance because of its controls.  That's Ubisoft's Prince of Persia "design the sequel for those that didn't buy it and sh!t on those that did" philosophy.  Still I'd say it's likely going to be an early title.

One issue regarding Smash Bros and Metroid is do those games make good use of the new controller idea.  Do they sell the concept?  I think they need something original that couldn't be done before.  SSB and Metroid Prime have been done before and Nintendo runs the risk of having something directly to compare it against.  They won't sell the remote concept if Metroid Prime 3 on the Rev controls worse than Metroid Prime 1&2 on the Cube.  Super Mario 64 DS incited debate on whether or not the touchscreen was a great idea or a gimmick.  The reason was because people could compare how the touchscreen controlled to how the analog stick controlled on the N64 and the N64 version was widely considered to be superior.  A new concept doesn't allow for that sort of comparison.  It's harder to say "this would work better on a normal controller" if there's nothing like it to compare to.

My biggest critism against the remote controller is that I fear it's going to break traditional controls.  I fear some games are going to be awkward and damn near unplayable on it.  Nintendo has to eliminate that fear.  So if SSB is the flagship title then it better damn well play MUCH better than the Cube version or this concept is going to look pretty lame.

[couchmonkey]

I totally agree with you (ARRRR), Nintendo had plenty of ideas for the DS game lineup before launching it, the company just didn't take long enough to develop those ideas into a strong launch lineup.

[Bill Aurion]

"I fear some games are going to be awkward and damn near unplayable on it. Nintendo has to eliminate that fear. So if SSB is the flagship title then it better damn well play MUCH better than the Cube version or this concept is going to look pretty lame."

Why do you have so much distrust over Ninty in the specialization that they've maintained for 20 years?  Their games are almost pure technical quality, so if a game DOES by chance not work with the remote, they won't go with it...PERIOD...But don't think that games won't just because the method of control is completely new...

[PaLaDiN]

Yeah, I agree with you Ian... but MP3 is the one game I expect to be leaps and bounds over any other controller when it comes out. They did make the MP2 demo everybody fell in love with, I mean.

And I don't see this as dumbing down. The lockon system was the best way to adapt Metroid to the traditional interface in 3D. The remote, if pulled off well, could bring Metroid back to the simplicity of shooting at enemies in 2D, and the lockon system is there anyway for circling around enemies. For looking around as well... it's gonna be a piece of cake to snap the view left and right to take in the entirety of your surroundings.

I can't think of a way it's worse.

[KnowsNothing]

It wasn't the controls that made the Metroid Prime games fit in with the series.  Even if it HAD controlled like an FPS, it still wouldn't have PLAYED like one.  It was the atmosphere, the exploration, the pacing, the weapons, the enemies, and the story that made this a Metroid game.  Sure, I probably wouldn't have liked it as much had it controlled with dual analog sticks, but it still would have been an FPA worthy of the Metroid name.

Plus. even if MP3 controls like a next gen FPS on the Rev, doesn't mean that the next gen FPS will control like anything we've ever played before.  

[stevey]

"I rented Luigi's Mansion for a week and beat it in the first two days. I shudder to think what it was like for people who paid $50 for it. "

I payed 50 buck and I beat in a day so what, hell LM was so good I would've payed 100 dollor for it (I beatin LM 138 times and counting the only game I replayed over 10 times)  

[Rancid Planet]

To get back on topic a little (something I've never said before EVER), I REALLY like the idea of dynamic pricing.

This is something I've been bitching about for YEARS!  Why should I have had to pay the same price for Luigi's Mansion that I paid for WW? This is a VERY good idea that Nintendo, nay ALL developers should run with.  

[The Omen]

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This is a VERY good idea that Nintendo, nay ALL developers should run with.

Sony will, and no one will give Nintendo credit for doing it 3 years prior.

[Rancid Planet]

Amen.

[Djunknown]

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To get back on topic a little (something I've never said before EVER), I REALLY like the idea of dynamic pricing.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed too. If Nintendo really wants to sell this gaming-for-everybody, they'll keep the prices down. However, I'm not holding my breath.

All signs point that game prices are going to go up, and publishers/Sony and MS don't have a problem with that. They'll say that the price is justified since the games are going to look substantially better, but more work and money is need to feed these power-hungry machines. Even after all that talk of ads in games,  outsourcing, they want to jack the prices up.

Hopefully Nintendo will keep their prices down, and offer incentives for 3rd parties to do the same when porting. Otherwise, if everything is going to be 60+ USD, I'll most likely buy no console next time around. Yeah, its that big of an issue for me...

[jasonditz]

keep in mind, guys, that a game doesn't have to be "beat in a weekend" to be a target for dynamic pricing, it's also entirely possible that we'd see stuff that just didn't require a lot of work but has a fair amount of replayability, like a lot of arcade style games do.

I think it's a given that we'll see at least a couple of full price games from Nintendo at or near launch, and with the third parties on board I'm sure we'll see more than one other from them. C'mon, Nintendo isn't going to launch a system with just a bass fishing sim and that squash game from the video (though I hope that game does see the light of day)

[wandering]

IanSane: "Miyamoto experimenting is not a good sign if that's what's happening. He should have a brilliant game idea that inspired the new controller in the first place. If not the remote IS a gimmick."

Well, I'd like to think that that means Miyamoto is working on a new IP, hopefully of M64 quality, instead of a mario game.
Though I kind of hope not, it would bother me if the token mario launch game was an afterthought YET AGAIN rather than the main attraction.

KDR: "Consider this the official introduction of episodic console games to the western world."

Oh. Yes. A 10-part epic where every part is 10-15$? Bring it on.