Topic: A more "traditionally designed" controller for Rev?

[NotSoStu]

Nintendo of America really has to fire every single god damned person in their marketing department. They need to show more gameplay in commercials, and less people playing GBAs with graffiti in the background and "WHO ARE U!!!???!" written everywhere.

[Hostile Creation]

You have no idea what advertising is, do you?  The point is not to show the product.  The point is to spark interest in the product, to get people to notice it.  (Most of) Their commercials are really cool, word of mouth and public opinion is what's killing Nintendo, not their advertising.  I mean Christ, look at Nintendogs.  That commercial was crap and it still sold great.  All these rants about gameplay footage is BS, so many games show very little footage (or total FMV) and yet sell fine.  And don't use San Andreas as an example of a commercial with game footage because that game was riding on the legacy created by GTA 3.  It would have sold just about as well without any commercial at all.

[NotSoStu]

That's a good point. I guess gameplay isn't what needs to be shown in the commercials, but they just really need to show you how Revolution's ocntroller can change the way you tihnk about video games. Especially since they want to interest people over the age of 30 or so.

[Stimutacs Addict]

... therefore showing some of the games that people are playing in that teaser would make for a perfect rev. commercial.

particularly 5-10 seconds on Mario, 5-10 on new IP, and another snippet featuring Metroid Prime 3 (or some other FPS)... then put it on in the middle of family guy and have FOX ANNOUNCE a special teaser for the new Nintendo console.
put the mario commercial on in the middle of Desperate Housewives and show wario ware or mario party or the new IP
and bam all's good.

oooh.. new thought... how could we possibly play Tony Hawk on the rev? I think that's a title that would require the shell (but I'd love to play it as if the remote was teh board.) grind by holding it sideways and balancing it in accordance to the onscreen meter. etc. manual by holding on the nose, then it'd start to rumble and make it harder to balance as time goes by.

[Rancid Planet]

Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
if nintendo just edits that trailer by showing specific games for each one of those gamer's actions, they could market that thing with no problem. Hell, they can add a little snippet at the end of Ian and Rancid plugging in the remote to play a 3rd party wrassler.

I'm all for being in a Nintendo commercial, especially if I get to play a wrestling game...even though most of them suck now. How about you Ian? Wanna be in a commercial?

As for the whole advertising the Rev thing. I stick by my comment that it will be tricky. Tricky in that it looks like the Rev controller will present SO many different options and be able to be markerted to SO many different groups of people that Nintendo may suffer trying to find an "all in one" advertising slogan/campaign.

Like I said before, I'm no marketing genius nor am I that creative in that fashion, but I feel Nintendo need to seperate out the advertising a little. For the non-gamer crowd that Nintendo seem so interested in, they should go right after them full throtle. I mean really showcase that new controller and what makes it so different from controllers of the past. That is just the thing to win them over as ex-gamers may think "WOW! Some innovation at last!" and those who have never gamed might think "Now THAT looks like something I could get into!"

As for the larger market, the "average joe" gamers out there, I think Nintendo should present a more broad advertising campaign. They should show off the Rev's new controller in all of it's glory, while at the same time remind those "average joe" gamers that the Rev isn't JUST about the "remote controller" but about classic gaming, third party gaming, and if there are any more attachments of noteworthy mention, they should find a way to showcase those as well. Show off the Rev with all of it's bells and whistles is what I'm saying.

That way the average gamer will see that with Nintendo, not only do they get everything they already had, they also get everything they ever wanted PLUS things they never even KNEW that they wanted! I mean if done properly Nintendo could have a killer ad campaign. Because they have a LOT to showcase here.

The Rev is potentially shaping up to be a "Dream" console...at least from the controller perspective. But Nintendo certainly cannot afford to appear one dimensional in the controller arena. Their adverising MUST reflect that.

OR DAY R TEH DOOMED!!!!!!!1uno

[Don'tHate742]

Advertising or not.....word of mouth NEVER fails.

For example, when I want to see a movie, do I go to the internet to find what movies are good? No...I go to my friend or brother and ask them what movies are good. I may look online to further confirm that fact, but for the most part I trust them and go see it.

An even better example is going out and buying a cd. Most people go with bands the heard of, but most importantly what people have said about those cds.

[Rancid Planet]

That's true Don'tHate. It is. But let me AX you dis...

What is word of mouth advertising stimulated by? Those with these supposed "words" coming out of their mouths had to have learned about the item in question somewhere right? And sure maybe they heard about it from a friend as well. But SOMEBODY had to have gotten the news from an actual news source, a website, an ad in a magazine or an article in the same 'zine, a tv commercial, somewhere.

Word of mouth is important. Very. But it STARTS with the advertising and public presentation to the media that Nintendo presents the world with. THEN word of mouth takes off. If the word is good, we get positive word of mouth advertising. If the word on the street is bad, Nintendo are teh doomed.

Nintendo need to start early, aggressively and thoroughly in their showcasing of the Rev and it's controller(s). Both to the media and through the media in their advertising.

[KnowsNothing]

Somebody buys a game on impulse and tells his friend how good it turned out to be.  Overlooked that one didn't you

[IceCold]

It's looking like they will pack the remote, the analogue stick, AND the shell with the console. I don't mind at all if it raises the price a bit - in fact, if it were too cheap average consumers would feel like it was missing something (like the Cube, even though it was more powerful than the PS2). The console, the attachments, and Mario 128 or SSB:R bundled in for a MSRP of $259.99 US. Perfect.

I definitely agree that the new controller should be pushed more than the shell, but it deserves mention, if only to appease the doubters.

And they could advertise all of the attachments with the controller. First, a quick 360 degree (lol) view of it. Then, footage of the ORIGINAL Super Mario Bros, with the person playing with the controller tilted. Then, that footage fades/blends into Mario on the SNES. After that, it becomes SM64 then SMS, but NOW with the player playing with the shell. And finally all new footage of Mario 128, using the remote and portraying the tilt function. This advertises the controller w/ attachments, AS WELL as the download service (it could be mentioned).

I hope that the remote is re-designed to seem more comfortable and non-angular. Some curves here and there to make it fit perfectly in your hand (like the GCN controller) whichever way you hold it would go a long way. The analogue stick attachment looks more like it.

Finally, I think that the shell should be like the Gamecube controller but with two analogue sticks.

The button layout; a large A button, a kidney shaped B button directly to the left (not angled), a left C button (except quite a bit bigger) right above the A button, a [down] C button directly to the right of the A button, and a right C button on the far corner, opposite the left C button. The Z button should be redesigned to be made easier to click and more comfortable.

This way, for 64 games, you have the normal layout, but there are 5 face buttons and for the up C button you could use the new Z button

[The Omen]

Quote
You have no idea what advertising is, do you? The point is not to show the product. The point is to spark interest in the product, to get people to notice it. (Most of) Their commercials are really cool, word of mouth and public opinion is what's killing Nintendo, not their advertising. I mean Christ, look at Nintendogs. That commercial was crap and it still sold great. All these rants about gameplay footage is BS, so many games show very little footage (or total FMV) and yet sell fine. And don't use San Andreas as an example of a commercial with game footage because that game was riding on the legacy created by GTA 3. It would have sold just about as well without any commercial at all.

Maybe the advertising being horrific prevented Nintendogs from selling even more?  I mean really, look at all the big games for cube, and the advertising sucks royally...and the sales are hurt too.  Saying something sells 250,000 copies despite the advertising doesn't exactly mean the advertising has done its job.

[Ian Sane]

"I think he believes that Nintendo didn't actually change it to improve games - they just wanted a way to separate themselves from Sony and MS, but 'traditional' controls really didn't need to be fixed. Nintendo's games would work better with the old controls, and now because Nintendo has chosen to go with this, theey will have to adapt their games to it, and they could turn out worse. Am I right Ian?"

That's pretty much dead on.

"You know the ONLY people I can find against this controller? They're the people who ALREADY PLAY GAMES."

And that's why I'm so concerned.  Non-gamers are a huge risk.  There is no guarentee that they will actually care.  Nintendo's idea that they're scared of the controller just seems to easy.  I think people that aren't into it, aren't into to it because they have no interest at all.

Existing gamers are the reason Nintendo even exists today.  They are the most important group for Nintendo to target.  So scaring them away is retarded.  Plus even if they attract non-gamers, how long will the interest last?  What if it's a fad?  If the non-gamers lose interest and Nintendo has turned away existing gamers they're F*CKED.

Would you risk the future of your company on a group that has never shown interest in your product before suddenly getting interested while at the same time scaring away the very group that made your company successful in the first place?  Nintendo could literally put themselves out of business from something as simple as advertising the controller wrong.

Regarding Nintendo's advertising, their biggest problem is that their commercials rely on the viewer knowing what's going on beforehand.  It's like they're made for us fans, instead of, you know, the people that don't know about the game.  The Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles ad for example had a bunch of people reflecting purple fog.  If you didn't know what the game was about already that ad made no sense at all.

The original Cube ads were very subtle.  You couldn't recognize what games were available from the ads unless you knew what they were ahead of time and knew what to look for.

[Rancid Planet]

Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Somebody buys a game on impulse and tells his friend how good it turned out to be.  Overlooked that one didn't you

Yeah I guess I did. But I was thinking of just the Rev. Hardly anyone buys a system on impulse. But SOME do to be sure...rich bastards. "Have you heard of this new Reverlooshun thingy? I just got one at the store cuz I was bored." "Yes I have heard of it. Now let me ask YOU a question. What did the hand say to the face? SLAP!"

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Regarding Nintendo's advertising, their biggest problem is that their commercials rely on the viewer knowing what's going on beforehand. It's like they're made for us fans, instead of, you know, the people that don't know about the game.

That is so very true. Nintendo have this problem with overestimating consumers. I think that's why I'm always so on about Nintendo learning to pander to the lowest common denominator. Sony do that better than anyone and they have had massive success. I know that isn't the only reason but c'mon, Nintendo can't keep living like it's 1992 and everyone still hangs on their every word. In this time frame,  on this continent especially, Nintendo is largely ignored by the media and the mainstream gamer sect. Only when Nintendo do something HUGE does anyone pay any attention to them. And then usually the buzz fades out just as soon as it gets started.

But if Nintendo get their act together, from a marketing standpoint, it won't be too hard to change this. Especially not if they have some seriously cool stuff to offer the gaming public. And this time, they really do.

[Hostile Creation]

"Maybe the advertising being horrific prevented Nintendogs from selling even more? I mean really, look at all the big games for cube, and the advertising sucks royally...and the sales are hurt too. Saying something sells 250,000 copies despite the advertising doesn't exactly mean the advertising has done its job."

I doubt it.  Quality of the advertisement tends to matter a lot less than the fact that you're advertising.  I'm sure there were some negative effects, but the losses as a result of the ad were probably relatively few.  Nintendo has plenty of great ads, too.  Check out either of the Metroid Prime ads (especially the first one); both of them are incredibly cool.  Yet neither of them sold nearly as well as they should have.  Of all the ads you see on television, how many do you pay attention to, or actually purchase the product advertised?  I'd say less than five percent.  But it increases your awareness of the product, and a terrible ad does that as well as a wonderful one does.  Fact is, a really funny ad will make you laugh, you'll say what a great ad, and the chances of you buying the product (assuming you weren't previously interested in it) are the same as any ad you didn't laugh at.  Quantity beats out quality, to be frank.
And I of all people would like to be the first to deny this, but I can't.  I'd love commercials to be better, and wish they'd succeed according to quality, but that generally isn't the case.

[wandering]

Quote
But it increases your awareness of the product, and a terrible ad does that as well as a wonderful one does. Fact is, a really funny ad will make you laugh, you'll say what a great ad, and the chances of you buying the product (assuming you weren't previously interested in it) are the same as any ad you didn't laugh at.

I'm not sure that's true. I'm going to be getting a virgin mobile phone in the near future, and I can't say that their great Christmahanakwanaka ad didn't influence my decision (though I tell myself that I would've gone with them regardless). And Dell's crappy 'Dude, you're getting a Dell!' campaign  turned me off of Dell's computers for quite awhile.

So, while I do agree that quantity is more important than quality, I do think ads can affect consumers' overall image of a product.  

EDIT: as for Nintendo's advertising, their cube advertising has been hit or miss, but their DS ads have been fantastic. The DS ads do a great job of making the system look cool, clearly (and brilliantly) demonstrating what the system does, and giving an idea of the variety of games that are available. Also, they've taken a page from Sony's book by making the ads as uniform and cohesive as possible, and making sure that the ads are ubiquitous.
So, let's hope Rev's marketing follows the DS's lead.  

[Hostile Creation]

Yet Dell is the leading computer manufacturer, and has been since the Dell Dude.

[MrMojoRising]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"I think he believes that Nintendo didn't actually change it to improve games - they just wanted a way to separate themselves from Sony and MS, but 'traditional' controls really didn't need to be fixed. Nintendo's games would work better with the old controls, and now because Nintendo has chosen to go with this, theey will have to adapt their games to it, and they could turn out worse. Am I right Ian?"

That's pretty much dead on.

"You know the ONLY people I can find against this controller? They're the people who ALREADY PLAY GAMES."

And that's why I'm so concerned.  Non-gamers are a huge risk.  There is no guarentee that they will actually care.  Nintendo's idea that they're scared of the controller just seems to easy.  I think people that aren't into it, aren't into to it because they have no interest at all.

I obviously don't know Nintendo's intentions in making the Rev controller, but whether or not their intentions were to better gaming or to simply stand apart from Sony and MS, I believe the controller will definately improve gaming.  Of course some genres will not benifit as much as others, but a fresh take on controls is very welcomed in my opinion.  I played Mario 64 and then I played it again on an island with better graphics but that time they called it Mario Sunshine, now I can play it with a new way to control the character on screen.  Not just a new setting, not just a new story (although that never really changes anyways: save the princess), not just new pretty graphics...the only way that Nintendo really could have taken a larger step in advancing gaming is if they invented a fourth dimension (and no I don't mean time).

With all that aside, Nintendo is still providing the "shell" attachment so that if a game will not benefit from the new controller, it can still be completely functional.

By "people who already play games" who exactly do you mean?  Because I would imagine the FPS loving masses to go gaga over being able to point where they want to shoot.  If you mean Nintendo fans then I think (or at least hope) you're wrong.  Let us start with the youngsters...this technology is going to grab them by their recently dropped balls and they're going to think it's freaking amazing.  Then there's us older Nintendo fans who are fans for a combination of two reasons. The first is because Nintendo makes the best games around.  The second is because Nintendo provides fresh and exciting gameplay experiences.  They are both game masters and innovators.  Now, the people who will not be as excited and interested in the controller are obviously the ones who are nintendo fans mostly for the first reason.  These people just want more of the same that they've come to know and love...these are the kind of people that don't grow out of professional wrestling by 6th grade.

Anyone who is against the Revolution controller without seeing its potential realized is simply being nostalgic.  The only arguement I can understand against the controller is that it's potential may not be realized.  If it's not I'm going to stab game developers everywhere (I'm not exactly sure if that means I'm going to stab different game developers around the world or if I'm going to stab game developers everywhere in their bodies, but I'll make the decision when and/or if the time comes).

[Caliban]

I don't get the criticism against Nintendo from some people. I see Nintendo as a company with many mistakes done in the past however I see it as the only one that has any guts in this buisness. In some way Nintendo is right about this buisness being doomed if they don't innovate. I can't imagine how the world would be right now if certain people didn't have the guts to introduce certain technologies to the masses, I'm not giving examples because you've got a brain so think for yourself.

Just one more thing, I see this controller as Nintendo adding new ways of having fun within this hobby. They aren't changing anything, in fact they still give an opportunity to play games in a conventional way and I could see some games working better in this way than with the NRC(Nintendo Revolution Controller).

I think that most people's bad mouthing isn't grounding on any substantial evidence and so therefore they should just chillax for a while.

Edit: Ahoy ye mateys I forgot to mention that Nintendo is the best at a Davy Back!

[ShyGuy]

I wonder if any new Rev games will turn the wand sideways and use the NES layout. I could see this working for games like Alien Hominid or Viewtiful Joe.

[Rancid Planet]

I look for at least ONE mini-game comp to use a lot of sideways controller action ShyGuy.

[WesDawg]

I really think this shell is probably a bad idea. I think it will probably get the Rev a lot more ported games, but at the same time, it'll encourage devs to not use the wand. I'd rather get neat wand games than thousands of ports.

[BlackNMild2k1]

why not get both?
we want the ports, and we want the new "wand" games.
remember what Nintendo said, "we are going to be an 'and' company"
meaning why do we have to choose when we can have it all?

[Rancid Planet]

And since the "wand" (we really have to come up with a universal name for this thing) is going to be compatible with the standard pad, we should see plenty of half-assed ports that use some minimal "wandertainment". Which would be better than nothing.

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Well I dug up an article at 1-Up.com that IMO proves that change has done more to help expand gaming, not hurt it and guess what? Most of the change came from Nintendo, and that is why I'm excited for their next system

Here's my favorite quote from the article:

Quote
The four Mario and Zelda games that Nintendo inexplicably allowed Philips to create for the CD-i would be terrible no matter what controller you used to play them. But the pad that shipped with the CD-i hardware defies all reason. Held in one hand, it's basically like a television remote -- the directional pad surrounded by two tiny, thin buttons.

Keep in mind this article was released on 9/13/05, two days before the unveiling of the Revolution controller.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Here's my favorite quote from the article:

Quote
The four Mario and Zelda games that Nintendo inexplicably allowed Philips to create for the CD-i would be terrible no matter what controller you used to play them. But the pad that shipped with the CD-i hardware defies all reason. Held in one hand, it's basically like a television remote -- the directional pad surrounded by two tiny, thin buttons.

Keep in mind this article was released on 9/13/05, two days before the unveiling of the Revolution controller.

questions to ask autor of article:

what does foot taste like?
does it leave an aftertaste when you remove it from your mouth?
has reason regained authority?

j/k what a coincednce though

[Ian Sane]

"questions to ask autor of article:

what does foot taste like?
does it leave an aftertaste when you remove it from your mouth?
has reason regained authority?"

He hasn't put his foot in his mouth until we have some real Rev games to play.  If Nintendo doesn't deliver he's going to sound like a prophet.

The only reason there's any optimism for the Rev controller is because Nintendo has such a great track record with controllers.  If Philips returned to the console market and showed the same controller you guys would all be laughing at them.  This isn't a knock on Nintendo.  It's good that they've obtained a good reputation for controller.  When Nintendo talks about the possibilities of the controller it's more believable.  If someone else said the same things you would assume they were full of crap because they have no credibility.

Is the CD-i controller any good?  No.  So the guy's right.  Any controller is a stupid design if it's not used correctly.

Though I do wonder why Philips went with that design.  If they came to the same "everyone can use a remote" conclusion Nintendo has come to then Nintendo might be the one putting their foot in their mouth.