Topic: The Official IWATAON Speech Thread

[BlackNMild2k1]

hey, can you read my fortune too?

Where will I be in 1-2 years? What are my lucky #'s?

Why did the chicken cross the road? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

Can you tell me what I'm gonna say next?....

[Mario]

Bwahahahaha, I seriously can't wait til Revolution comes out, either these doomsayers will admit they were wrong or just plain disappear.

[wandering]

Wait, why will the controller make Nintendo fail, again? I don't think you said, o psychic one.

Is it because the controller is too different?

I don't buy it. First off, mainstream gamers are used to change - things change in the videogame world all the time.  Second off, can you think of a single time a Nintendo-made controller innovation was bad for either Nintendo or the industry?

Frankly, it would've been suicide for Nintendo if they DIDN'T come up with a radical new controller.  

[Ian Sane]

Jhiando's prediction isn't too out there.  Nintendo in last place with less marketshare but still profitable?  That's like Nintendo's routine.  That should be what everyone expects until proven otherwise.

It's not like Nintendo has shown that they've learned from their mistakes or anything.  The Cube didn't end up in last place because the controller wasn't innovative enough.  It was last place because Nintendo make blatantly obvious stupid mistakes.  There's no evidence that they've learned from that and THAT is what they have to change.  The remote controller is a distraction.  They hope that being different will make up for their usual boneheadedness.  They either feel they can't or don't want to fix their own problems so they're pulling this "we're not doing the same thing as Sony and MS" routine and hoping no one notices.

I'd say that anyone making positive predictions about Nintendo is jumping the gun.  We've got a weird controller that we have no idea how the general public is going to react to and we have a company that does WORSE every generation.  I think we at least need to see a game before we assume they'll break the pattern and actually do better for once.

[Mario]

Quote
It's not like Nintendo has shown that they've learned from their mistakes or anything.

They've learned about the design of the system, you can't call Revolution a "purple lunchbox". They've learned about online play. We haven't really seen any evidence that they HAVEN'T learned from their mistakes, because they've done everything right with Rev so far based on what we know, i'd say it's pretty silly to be negative right now, because all the negativity is just empty assumptions.

[PaLaDiN]

So Ian, would you classify your precious SNES as Nintendo making mistakes? Because it sold less than the NES.

But I mean, sure, by all means believe that everything is peachy and if Nintendo could just stick to their guns without making mistakes they would do better than ever, despite all the evidence. Are you going to tell me the Cube had more blatantly obvious stupid mistakes than the N64 next? That the tiny percentage of people who cared about online was a bigger loss than the third parties who jumped off the cartridge boat? Which console did better again?

Sorry Ian, you're going to have to throw away this delusion of "no mistakes = Nintendo in a better position". They don't innovate, more and more people get bored. People get bored, your ideal business model dies a horrible death.

[BigJim]

I'd never go so far as predict Revolution's failure, but I will predict Nintendo won't be #1.

I say that because neither MS or Nintendo can match Sony's massive distribution. At all. I  mean, it's not even close. They'll put an outlet on every street corner if they can.

It's too early to predict failure. But I do think MS and Nintendo will pick up whatever's left. HOWEVER. I will say this. So far Nintendo has only demonstrated that they are targetting the Nintendogs crowd with this controller. They've made a point to remind us of how awesome they are because of that game all the time. (Sucks for me since I'm not interested in virtual pet games.) They still need to prove they are serious about the rest of us.

They probably THINK they are, just like they think their method of making games for everybody actually satisfies everybody, but the proof will be in the pudding.  

[Ian Sane]

"Are you going to tell me the Cube had more blatantly obvious stupid mistakes than the N64 next?"

Yes.  The N64 had one huge mistake that whatever Nintendo did they couldn't recover from.  But Nintendo's marketing was pretty good on the N64 and in general they made the right games at the right time.  The Cube had no initial excuse for Nintendo to be handcuffed by.  They had the opportunity to recover from the cartridge mistake and they blew it.  Aside from the Wavebird and the really amazing load times Nintendo screwed pretty much everything up on the Cube.  It was the most frustrating thing I've ever seen.  The N64 hardware, I feel, did as well as it could have.  No other company could have taken the same hardware and done better with it.  The Cube could have done WAY better.  Sony with the Cube hardware would have still been number one.  The N64 was Nintendo making the best out of a bad situation.  The Cube was Nintendo making the worst out of a good opportunity.

If Nintendo has learned from their mistakes why have we seen their precious secret but haven't seen any games or specs or graphics?  Nintendo was modest about the power of the Cube last gen and as a result a lot of people assumed the Cube was weaker than the PS2.  There have been rumours about the Rev being significantly underpowered yet Nintendo has made no effort to kill these rumours.  And now they've shown their secret.  That was the whole reason to be quiet.  Why have they not shown as more?  They're still being secretive about silly things.  They're still being shortsighted and forcing stupid restrictions.  Case in point: no HD support.  Plus while they are finally online they're being VERY secretive about it.  Plus they have this weird obsession about wi-fi.  I'm happy they're online but I don't like all this wi-fi talk.  It sounds like another one of Nintendo's patented stupid restrictions, in this case forcing everyone to use wireless internet instead of, you know, just plugging our broadband cord into the Rev.  Sure I just have to buy a wireless router but I'd rather not buy anything particularly when there's no good reason to be forced to use wi-fi.

And most important of all Nintendo has shown us some nifty new gadget.  But, like with connectivity, they haven't shown us an actual GAME to justify it.  They're hoping that just being different is going to give them an advantage again.

I think they have improved somethings but even with the Cube they learned to go with optical discs so it's not like they never learn anything.  But they're still insane and are still living in their own little world.  They still think that they have the same power they had when they were number one, like they can do anything and people will care.  I still see delusional "we're the only company that has good ideas" Nintendo.

Hell Nintendo isn't even showing anything on the TGS floor.  They still think they're above the industry.  Until they get that idiotic idea out of their head they're still the same stubborn Nintendo.

[Stimutacs Addict]

 they're talking about WiFi in like 3-4 weeks. I see it as nintendo just trying to pace their Rev. news... Now that we've seen the controller, Nintendo needs to keep a pretty steady stream of info coming to us. plus they are going to release a USB attachment to enable wifi in your house, if reports are correct. You aren't going to have to set up a WiFi network in your house just to play games.

and ian, they dont need to show us a game to justify this new control scheme. I know "the controller is broken, nintendo is wussin out to distract people so that maybe they can compete with microsoft, etc etc"
 but you know what? this control scheme will satisfy their business model (it looks simple -- and fun-- enough for anyone to play), and i wouldn't be surprised if Rev begins to outsell x360 after that first FPS is released (what else do people buy Xbox's for?). no one can beat sony, now, however.,,, gamers will probably buy every iteration of Playstation from now to the end of time.

unless there is some secret to the Rev visuals (3d?), they really have no excuse to not show us some pics... i dont give a rat's bum about specs, but we need some screenshots of games running on the Revolution. My only suspicion for the lack of spec news is that nintendo might be waiting on something -- i have no idea as to what -- but you're right about the specs and graphics.  i would have expected to see running software before seeing the controller.

[ShyGuy]

Ian, if you liked so little of what Nintendo has done in the last 5 years, why are you here? I'm sorry, but Nintendo obviously doesn't make a product for you anymore and it doesn't look like they will be making a product for you in the future either.

[Ian Sane]

"Ian, if you liked so little of what Nintendo has done in the last 5 years, why are you here?"

They may have sucked as a console maker but they were still an amazing game developer.  I like the Cube, I just am REALLY disappointed in it.  The games were still good enough to deal with Nintendo's crap, though that doesn't exempt it from criticism.

My concern with the Rev is exactly that Nintendo won't be making a product for me.  This non-gamer bullsh!t is getting priority over me, a longtime supporter and fan.  They haven't gotten to that point yet though so I'm still here.  Hell Twilight Princess is still due so I have reason to stick around Planet GAMECUBE for a little while yet.

I'll leave when I'm not interested in Nintendo at all anymore.  I really hope that never happens though.

[vudu]

Quote
My concern with the Rev is exactly that Nintendo won't be making a product for me. This non-gamer bullsh!t is getting priority over me, a longtime supporter and fan.

Jim Merrick Takes Control

Quote
Eurogamer: There's been a lot of talk about expanding the gaming audience and creating games for the whole family. Does that mean you're leaving Sony and Microsoft to take care of the hardcore?

Jim Merrick: Not at all. We know we have two audiences to reach - one is the expanding audience, new consumers or people who used to play games but have since quit.     But we can't only embrace that audience. We have to recognise the people who put us on the map, and make sure we continue create games for them.

[stevey]

"G4 never likes anything. It's their way of looking "objective" without putting any though into their opinions. "

G4 is loving the rev controller! yes loving! and yes G4! and no I'm not lieing Ian seen to be the only one hateing the rev controller and most of his resone he make up in his head and is wrong. just go with revolution stop living in the past the past is dead!

[Caliban]

Actually the past will come back to haunt him once again, remember that we will be able to play past games on the REV.

Ian, the reason nintendo might be insisting on the wi-fi is very clear. Imagine this (note: anything you read after this is pure fiction appliable in reality but it is not my reality), I have a NDS and therefore when it's online features are ignited I will want to use them but I don't have a wireless router and I don't want to go through any hassle of getting one because I'm not tech savvy at all. Now, it would seem to me that Nintendo is simplifying my life, I buy the usb adapter, plug it in and voila. later in time the REV comes out and I also buy it, oh who would've thought that Nintendo made my life easy and once I get home the console will be online enabled. Of course I skipped some steps but I think you might know what I'm trying to say. and if you didn't understand I will give two examples, X-Box LIVE or PS Online.

[Ian Sane]

"We have to recognise the people who put us on the map, and make sure we continue create games for them."

That's just PR speak until I see otherwise.  Nintendo said the same thing about the DS.  Now they're making more traditional games too but for the first six months there were no games released designed for the existing gamer audience.  They now have Kirby and Advance Wars but there was a long time before those came around and Nintendogs is getting far more attention from Nintendo.

If Nintendo had the kind of healthy third party support they're supposed to have then it wouldn't matter so much but for the last two generations owning a Nintendo console means having a handful of games a year you really like and not much else.  By targeting non-gamers Nintendo's resources are split up.  They're not going to make as many games for existing gamers a year.

Let's say right now Nintendo releases 8 games for a console a year all of which are for existing gamers.  Nobody likes everything so let's say you like 4 or 5 of them.  But now Nintendo is dedicating all this time to non-gamers so now only 4 (or maybe less) games come out for existing gamers a year.  And you're not going to like all of them so there might be only 1 or 2 of them you want.  Third party support is weak as hell so you're probably only going to be able find one or two really good third party games a year if you're lucky.

By dedicating efforts to two groups Nintendo is basically taking a release schedule that was already pretty slim and cutting it in half.  And that's if it's 50-50.  Plus Nintendo said they were going to target mature gamers too and all they did was give us a few mature games and thought that was good enough.  If Nintendo isn't interested in something they do the bare minimum.  If existing gamers is not their focus (and it isn't or they wouldn't have a remote) then we're going to get scraps.

I haven't bought one first party Nintendo Cube game all year and we're 9 months in and right now practically all of Nintendo's games are designed for existing gamers.  They start splitting up their resources with non-gamer junk and I could see a whole calender year go by where Nintendo releases NOTHING I want to buy.

[couchmonkey]

...except that most of the games Nintendo dedicates to the non-gamers can be developed with tiny teams in a fraction of the time.   Which is exactly why those games were plentiful while we waited for more "hardcore" games to come out on the DS.  Brain Training took 10 people 4 or so months to develop - and that accounts for two or three separate products, if I'm not mistaken.  The same team would probably several years to release a 3D Mario or Zelda title, if they released it at all.

[Rancid Planet]

I don't think how fast the non-gamer games can be produced has much to do with it. Nintendo have always had a strategy of spreading out all of their "would be big" titles across the calender enough so that they don't compete with one another. It's part of a disapointing/underachieving business strategy on Nintendo's part.

I've said it before but when it comes to the eventuality of even MORE non-gamer games being released when the Rev comes, I'm going to be saying it a lot more - I really wish Nintendo would expand their development teams and start cranking out the games by the truckload. (Don't give me the "lower quality" crap, that's why I said they should hire in more talented developers, each game could get the same quality amount of attention while upping production as to the total number of first party software released each year) It would only help Nintendo's cause. Esepecially if third party development dries up on the Rev because of the controller like it did on the N64 due to it's software format.

Nintendo have to stop thinking so frugally. Sure, they make TEH TONZ OF MONEE but as marketshare shrinks and shrinks, so will that profit margin. Nintendo should fight back. I have faith in their abilities to create outstanding software at a more frequent pace. And I also have faith that doing just that could be the key to solving many of Nintendo's problems.  

[Hostile Creation]

"That's just PR speak until I see otherwise."

Oh please.  Nintendo is releasing more hardcore gamer games than any other developer out there and you goddamn know it.  Nor will they stop doing so.  Expanding your market does not in any way involve cutting out another portion of your market.  Nintendo fans and dedicated gamers are a reliable and substantial source of income, so they are not going to cease making games that appeal to them.

[Jhiando]

>>  And you're right because you spoiled the ending of a movie?  <<
No I just posted that to prove I've been on this forum a very long time. Frankly I dont recognize your screen name or many of the other Nintendo fanboys. IAN SANE is an old timer like myself who has been on these boards a very long time too. I posted that stuff to prove I've been here a long time and that I am not some flamer / troll baiter who came to drop a bomb and go.

>>  hey, can you read my fortune too?

Where will I be in 1-2 years? What are my lucky #'s? <<

No I am not fortune telling... I am just adding my 2 cents to this discussion. I am just a gamer who IS NOT biased toward any system or company.  I am not biased For or Against. IF you want a bunch of Nintendo fanboys who just spout off Ninty is # 1 !!! Ninty is so GREAT and can do no wrong ... The Revoltuion will definitely be #1 and Sony and Microsoft will lose the next round, etc etc  etc.  Wow that controller is perfect for FPS's etc ( that is a major laugh ! )... you might as well NOT HAVE A FORUM. You guys can just circle jerk each other to obvilion.

>>  Bwahahahaha, I seriously can't wait til Revolution comes out, either these doomsayers will admit they were wrong or just plain disappear <<

AGAIN  I've been on these boards a long time. Yes I would easily admit if I am wrong. I have no problem with that. BUT conversely if or as I predict WHEN the Revolution fails to catch fire... will YOU say ' hey I was wrong .... that controller really put a nail into Nintendo's coffin ' ?

>>  Wait, why will the controller make Nintendo fail, again? I don't think you said, o psychic one..... Is it because the controller is too different? <<

Yup. It is too radically different. AND the fact that it will be YOUR MAIN CONTROLLER. It should have been an peripheral. The video was interesting but if you think Dentist Sims or Surgery Sims or Orchestra sims or Sword fighting sims will catch fire - I'll bet otherwise. In addition can you imagine playing endless hours on one of your favorite games with that THING ? You will be seriously tired or cramping up. There is a reason console controllers all look very similar ... because it is a perfected shape... it is optimal. The developers talk how they wanted a familar shape thus they made it into a remote control shape.... when is the last time you held a remote control more than a minute or two? Imagine holding on to one for hours on end and using it as your primary control device.

My whole post basically said The Revolution will be third again but this time it will actually lose marketshare / it lose more mainstream gamers LIKE MYSELF and not gain them like they should have been aiming to do this generation. I seriously wonder about you Nintendo fanboys who swallow up anything that Ninty produces. Yes that controller is revolutionary / radically different ... it can be a great controller ... BUT the average gamer / the mainstream are not going to for the Revolution because of that controller... they are going to be REPULSED by it.  It's a freakin' remote control !  The average gamer / the mainstream dont buy consoles based on the controller.... they buy them based on the games. Nintendo had trouble attracting the mainstream gamers this generation with the Cube... it needed to attract more and more of them this generation.. Nintendo needed something to gain more gamers. Making an ackward, weird and different input device your main controller isn't a cure but another problem.  The average gamer / mainstream will not be running out to buy the Revolution... they will be running away from it.

[Rancid Planet]

Don't hold back Jhiando. Tell us how you REALLY feel.  

[Hostile Creation]

Everyone I've told, nongamers in particular, is incredibly interested in the device.

Also, "Frankly I dont recognize your screen name or many of the other Nintendo fanboys."
I've been around long since X-men 2 was even in production, at least. . . hmm.  Three years?  Maybe more.  Probably more, in fact.  Same for many of the others in the thread.  Besides, seniority on some internet forum does not dictate one's intelligence and foresight.

"Wow that controller is perfect for FPS's etc (that is a major laugh!)"
You must be blind, deaf, retarded, and completely uneducated to think this control scheme doesn't provide great opportunities for FPS games.

"The video was interesting but if you think Dentist Sims or Surgery Sims or Orchestra sims or Sword fighting sims will catch fire - I'll bet otherwise."
OH SHI-- you just killed your own argument.

If the Revolution fails, how could I not admit it?  Of course I will.  But I think it has potential, and I think you're just blind to that.

[KnowsNothing]

"I like Mario!  It's fun!"

"wtf nintendo fanboy! nintendo is not number one I think mario suck and I'm right because I'm older than you and  work for movies and I have the brain worms."

Seriously, just because we like the Revolution doesn't make us fanboys.  Besides, someone who keeps spouting off his own staggering ignorance like that is infintley worse than a fanboy because EVERYONE hates him

[BlackNMild2k1]

I just wanna say that I have been here since the OPN2k days only under a different name, Shadowman1(I was a lurker, as the name implies), which also means I have been here longer(not sure if that is a good thing or not ), and gives me seniority over you

and Jean Grey didn't die @ the end of X2, she awakened Phoenix(a much much more powerful alter ego), for all of those that never read the comics or watched the cartoon

p.s. with the shell, which should be packed in as an optional peripheral, you can use the the system to play your standard graphically upgraded games of last gen with the same controls that you have grown accustomed to over the last 5-10 years. So that shouldn't be a problem, OK? alrighty then...

[Artimus]

I came here three years ago too. After NN died

And btw, just watch in X3 there will be A CHASE SCENE!

[Ian Sane]

"with the shell, which should be packed in as an optional peripheral, you can use the the system to play your standard graphically upgraded games of last gen with the same controls that you have grown accustomed to over the last 5-10 years."

This arguement, which I see a lot, makes no sense.  Is Nintendo going to make all their games work with both controllers?  No.  Zelda's going to use one or the other.  Mario's going to use one or the other.  It's not as simple as "well you can play it the old way if you want to".  The games have to be designed the "old way".  Otherwise it's like playing Jungle Beat with the controller.  It's doable but that game was designed for the bongos so playing it with the controller isn't going to make it play like Donkey Kong Country.

The shell will only be useful if Nintendo treats it like part of the standard controller.  The remote plus the shell has to be the standard controller.  The idea should be that they come apart but the "standard" is the two of them together.  If the shell is just treated like some accessory used for SNES/N64 games and multiplatform ports that's ALL it will be used for.  The shell and the remote should both be considered essential parts of the controller.

I agree with Jhiando in that the remote by itself will probably scare away people more than anything.  But when I saw the DS launch lineup I figured the DS would be in clearance bins by now so I'm not making any hard predicitions.