Topic: Nintendo is doing all they can, so stop the noise!

[Gamebasher]

Forum member, Mario, just started a serious discussion about where Nintendo is right now saleswise from the perspective of the latest sales charts. Why all this focus on the international sales charts and bemoaning them? Hell, Rome wasn´t built in a day. Neither will Nintendo´s future success. Nintendo is well on it´s way to regain the top of the videogame market. They just need to keep going and keep putting out quality titles. Correct their past mistakes, and keep going from there.

One of their past mistakes was evident on the N64. Too few or no sequels to the best games.

On the GBA you get sequel upon sequel upon sequel of the same games franchises, game-sequels that stay true to their respective prequels. And the GBA hardware and software sells in mega bucket loads!! People get to play their favourite games in constantly released new incarnations again and again (I owned two GBA already so I know what I talk about as I have seen the selection of games available). Now, look over on the PS2! Here we have the same phenomenon: sequels upon sequels of beloved franchises pumped out in a never ending succession. People are happy. People are buying.

This was lacking on the N64. And so Nintendo promises us it will be different with the GameCube.

But, as I have pointed out before in the previous forum, the one before this latest NEW FORUM, Nintendo should be carefull with what they do from now on so they don´t go and experiment too much but stay faithfull to the games make up that is a proven success, like Mario 64 and Zelda 64. These games set the standard for the whole games market in all the future. And they were million sellers. That is what Nintendo needs. But even if Super Mario Sunshine sells a crap load of games, which it apparently isn´t at the moment, there is still a lot of people who will agree with me that it is nowhere near as great as Mario 64. The textures are mostly plain ugly, and it is too difficult. Many many people the viewpoints of whose I have read many places agree to this.

Spong.com is one of them. In their view (notice that I didn´t copy and paste that from that website, but you can go and check it for yourself on that website under "Games of the year - the dissapointments")!

As I also stated previously EDGE said somewhat the same in their Super Mario Sunshine issue review, and CUBE magazine in the VIEWPOINT section of their most recent issue agrees with a reader that Nintendo has recently dissapointed with their main franchises, also stating however that Nintendo ws going to make up for it with the new 2003 selection of games.

Miyamoto can make any sequel as great as that if he wants to! And astound the world yet again! Get Nintendo where his Nintendo wants to be!  

Nintendo can´t afford to dissapoint gamers anylonger. As the current situation goes they did dissapoint a lot of gamers with SMS. So Miyamoto-san listened and is making a new Mario which will purportedly be easier.

Great, we are getting to where we need to be: sequel upon sequel upon sequel....  

Word of mouth travels fast! All the way over to all those PS2 gamers who once owned an N64! The ones Ninty want so bad.

So let´s trust in what Ninty is doing. Trust that they will not dissapoint us with the GameCube. And support them.

I´ll give it a shot!

Here´s to brighter (Nintendo) future!!

Gamebasher.







 

[rodtod]

I think it would do us all some good if we stopped and considered for a moment the differences between the Gamecube's launch, and that of the Famicom/NES.

The Famicom was released in 1983, 8 years after Nintendo first got involved in videogames.

The NES was released in 1985, two years after the Famicom.

The Japanese Gamecube was released in September of 2001, 8 years after the Famicom. The North American launch happened that same year in November. The American launch of the cube was Nintendo's most successful stateside launch ever.

Now, consider the amount of time that has past. Nintendo has had nearly 28 years of experience in the videogame industry. It has produced four generations of video game consoles (not including the Gameboy, its iterations, or the N64DD). Each generation is more successful than the last (though the N64 is arguable), and increases Nintendo's userbase by leaps and bounds.

Gamers who purchased the Famicom at launch would now be 20 years older. They are now able to work at game development companies and hold important positions in such companies. If Nintendo claims it will return to its glory days (the NES generation), this is how it's going to happen. Yes, Nintendo's Famicom had hypnotic properties.

Ok, seriously I think Nintendo can only keep on getting better at making games, getting richer off of gamers, and brushing up on their marketing strategy

[Gamer Donkey]

I hear a lot of talk about how Metroid really isn't selling as well as it should, but it hasn't released in Europe yet, and won't until March. At www.eurogamer.net, they're just now getting excited about PSO and the modem adapters, and yet I think back and remember a post about the GC outselling Xbox in France. Please forgive me if I said anything wrong. I just trying to show that we can't judge worldwide sales until they're selling worldwide.

[Infernal Monkey]

Only problem with Metroid not being released yet, is that the Freeloader HAS, and well, I know of quite a few people (online and offline =o ) who have gotten themselves a copy from the US.

Nintendo took too long, this is what happens.

[rodtod]

I've yet to see Nintendo's current position in the market affect the quality of their first-party games

[Grey Ninja]

Thanks GameBasher.  It truly is time to stop complaining about Nintendo's marketting.  They are giving us the games, let's just play them and forget about how retarded the average gamer is.

[mouse_clicker]

It's not all the average gamer's fault- if anything, Nintendo should try to be winning them over. Sega's showed us that appealing to only a specific group of people is like getting in the fast lane to your demise. MS and Sony are doing so well because they're convincing the average Joe out there that THEY'RE worth their money. Nintendo's also doing this, but to a much smaller degree. They REALLY need to pump out the ads- the first step is getting your console known, which they're still working on. After that they need to make their console look more desirable than anything else. I don't think Nintendo should sacrifice quality for sales- I'd never wish that in a million years, but appealing to the masses does NOT mean making crap games and it's how you become successful.

They HAVE been doign a lot more, though, and I think most people's whining is excessive- seriosuly, don't they have better things to do than spend all their free time complaining about what Nintendo's doing wrong? It's good to be concerned- it means you care- but obsessing over sales statistics, etc, is just dumb- we're gamers, not sales analysts! Nintendo's doing a lot better- they've been running more and better ads, they've offering great deals coupled with extraordinary games, and I really think Nintendo is set to rise. But they're not at that #2 spot yet here in North America, and tehy have a very long way to go for the #1 spot. If they can only shed their "#2's good enough" mantra and start accepting nothing less than #1, like MS has been doing since before launch, they'll really sore and will finally move into position to reclaim the top spot.

[ThePerm]

do all europeans speak english.....no. Wouldnt all the other countries in europe really love it if nintendo just released their games in english...hell no.  

[Gamebasher]

"But they're not at that #2 spot yet here in North America, and they have a very long way to go for the #1 spot. If they can only shed their "#2's good enough" mantra and start accepting nothing less than #1, like MS has been doing since before launch, they'll really sore and will finally move into position to reclaim the top spot."

You´re right Mouse_clicker! Nintendo should accept no less than the top spot. This kind of motivation would also have them behave far more aggressive, hopefully without compromising their first party titles. Then we will have loads of games to play from both 1., 2. and 3. party line and people will finally wake up and see quality over quantity.

Actually, I think this is what will eventually happen. But maybe not until the next generation.

Gamebasher.  

[PIAC]

on the subject of europe and release dates
australia is subject to the same/similar release dates to europe, being the same television format (PAL) and i was thinking very seriously about getting metroid/zelda/pso all from the US and getting the freeloader, but by the end of it im a poor 18 year old and it would end up (with postage and the cost of the free loader) to be worth almost 4 games.

i now currently own 2 $10 dollar dockets from EB(zelda and metroid pre order), with a 3rd on its way perhaps (pso), all/most of my friends feel the same as i do regarding this fact, so in responce to infernal monkey, some pre order some dont, so there will be a great number of metroid/zelda units moved through EB/BigW etc check outs in my opinion

[Sean]

Disclaimer: this post is not fact based, but based on a bit of intuition.  Attack it at will, but try to see what I'm getting at.

Mouse_clicker: you say that Nintendo needs to win over the average gamer, or they will go the way of Sega, most likely.  Well, I just don't think we can say something like that since Nintendo is not in any financial trouble whatsover.  What we really have to do is stop comparing Nintendo to Sony.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that as of February 19, 2003, the Playstation brand itself is more popular than Nintendo ever was.  Call me crazy, but I just get that feeling.  It's sad, and if it's not UTTERLY true, it might as well be.  The Sony brand goes well beyond gaming, if you ask me, and Nintendo can't compete with that, literally.  That said, I do think that if they keep doing what they've been doing on GCN, they could really make leaps and bounds, even to success in the eyes of people who misunderstand success.  I truly believe they've done almost everything right after their still-successfull-but-much-maligned N64.

The fact is, Nintendo's doing just fine from their perspective, which is why all this talk from people Matt Cassamassina and countless other editors and people (like us) probably seems a bit groundless.  People like to say that Nintendo is ignorant and that they have no idea about how the modern market works, and yet the other possibility is that from their point of view, things are fine, millions of people still love their games, they are raking in the dough from all corners, and they are happy.

What if?  

[nolimit19]

1 Nintendo Game Boy Advance SP 114,000 114,000
2 S C E PlayStation 2 59,400 602,000
3 Nintendo Game Boy Advance 33,900 636,700
4 Nintendo GameCube 9,200 162,900
5 Microsoft Xbox 3,000 38,300
6 S C E Playstation 2,000 22,400
7 Bandai Wonderswan Crystal 1,000 11,800
8 Nintendo Game Boy Color 370 7,100
9 Bandai Wonderswan Color 350 7,800

look at the sales for gamecube last week. thats one week! i mean that is pretty goodgameboy is on pace to sell 6 million units this year in japan alone. nintendo has nothing to worry about. and i am not sure if nintendo makes more money then sony, but they must come pretty damn close because sales are pretty good world wide for not only the gameboy, but the cube as well. its pretty well known that the 64 made more monye then the ps1. and if the cube is going to do better then the 64, how could nintendo not make a lot of money. there is no need to be afraid of nintendo going anywhere. they are still making the skrill and they will pull through.

[mouse_clicker]

"The fact is, Nintendo's doing just fine from their perspective,"

Key word- "their" perspective, which we've obviously seen is shortcoming. For christ's sake- SMS didn't sell near as well as any other Mario game. True it sold well period, but when you start becoming satisfied with what you have you'll *never* get anything better. If Sony was happy just making the electronics they did before the PSX, they NEVER would have grown to become what they are now in videogaming. Yeah Nintendo's doing GOOD, but good's not good enough! What's to stop them from being great? Obviously they're lack of caring. And then you have to remember that nearly all of Nintendo's profit is off of the GBA- I bet they're not making quite a lot off the Gamecube. Key franchise sales are down, 3rd-parties are starting to pull out, and Nintendo's satisfied with where they are? Personally I don't care as long as I get Mario, Metroid, and Zelda, but they've really got to get their act together if they want to be any better than they are. You say I'm comparing Nintendo to Sony- rather think of it as comparing Nintendo to what it once was.

[codyy]

Actually playstation even being invented is Nintendo's fault. Nintendo tryed to partnership with Sony to make a "Nintendo Playstation". Something happened and they went there separate ways. Nintendo is still hitting there heads of the wall for that one.

What Nintendo is hoping for is that the next series of consoles will prove to be different. If Nintendo had launched alongside Playstation 2 (and Xbox) you might be looking at Nintendo as number 1, as Playstation's launch titles sucked.

Oh, and stop picking on Super Mario Sunshine. That game rocks, even if it does take place in one area. The puzzles are challenging, the water pack innovative, and it was an excellent game. For all those that said it was too hard--maybe you better go over to Playstation and fry your mind with Grand Theft Auto. Obviously you can't handle a simple "kiddie game" so you should go over to a more "mature game." People like that make me sick. Blah.

Metroid Prime for Game of the Year!!! Yah-hoo!

[Gamer Donkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
"The fact is, Nintendo's doing just fine from their perspective,"

Yeah Nintendo's doing GOOD, but good's not good enough!

It doesn't matter to me where Nintendo stands just as long as they keep making great games and consoles.

[Sean]

Which is basically my point.  No one can argue their games aren't good, unless they are completely jaded (I do believe that pretty much anyone would think their games were good IF they actually played them, and not just for 5 minutes at Wal-Mart).  No one can argue either that Nintendo isn't successful and very, very profitable.  If Mario not selling as well as past Marios is an indication, then pretty much no game is successful today, except a few on PS2.

I just don't see what the big deal is.  Nintendo's rockin' the games out, making tons of dough, and keeping their fans happy as well as enticing people interested in games to the GameCube.  You can say what you want about Nintendo fans growing up and going to GTA3 and calling Mario "kiddie," but in the end, they weren't that interested in what made Mario good in the first place, which wasn't the exteriors, but the gameplay, which by no means was anything less than mature.

Nintendo's fine whether they are the world leader they once were or not.  Apples and oranges arguments like this need to go away.

[cubist]

Quote
Yeah Nintendo's doing GOOD, but good's not good enough! What's to stop them from being great? Obviously they're lack of caring.

Mouse clicker, if Nintendo stopped caring then I wouldn't be here awaiting their next standard-setting masterpiece.  As a matter of fact, if they'd stop caring, then companies like Retro would not have been allowed to create Metroid Prime.  Silicon Knights' guild philosophy wouldn't have been allowed conceive Eternal Darkness.  Fund Q would not have done the impossible and brought a Final Fantasy game to the Gamecube (although more a spin-off, but still a Final Fantasy).  At last year's E3, as well as previous ones that I've attended, the "lack of caring" you speak of doesn't exist.  No one had a better showing than Nintendo's booth.  Period.  I've stated this once on similar threads and I'll state it again, who cares what attracts the mainstream gamer!  The "lack of caring" should be targeted at the mainstream gamer because they're stuck on the "kiddie" image facade.

[Kai]

Quote
Originally posted by: cubist

Quote
The "lack of caring" should be targeted at the mainstream gamer because they're stuck on the "kiddie" image facade.

You can blame the "casual gamer" as much as you like, but that isn't going to help Nintendo. I don't want to see Nintendo try to appeal to casual gamers by making puerile rubbish like BMX XXX or Dead of Alive Beach Volleyball. I am with you there.

But there are people who are just buying a cube who don't understand the appeal of games like SMS. They are adult gamers who have bought the cube to play Resident Evil and Eternal Darkness, and Nintendo could do worse than throw some extra games their way. Nintendo need a great new RPG, FPS, or Survival Horror, with an epic story-line (please, the cartoon graphics and simplistic story behind TS2 are great, but not what I'm referrring to)

Also I'm getting a bit sick of people telling people what to post on these forums. You don't like a thread, don't post in it, but don't tell people "so stop the noise" It's not going to work and it's just going to get people off-side.

"For all those that said it was too hard--maybe you better go over to Playstation and fry your mind with Grand Theft Auto. Obviously you can't handle a simple "kiddie game" so you should go over to a more "mature game." People like that make me sick. Blah."

I don't like GTA either. I want intelligent games that are made for adults and seriously, pushing a watermelon off a hill to win a Watermelon festival at some freaked out la la land tropical resort is not exactly the gaming equivalent of Proust or anything like approaching the complexity of games such as System Shock 2 and Silent Hill. It's not the difficulty level of the game itself that makes some people call it "kiddie" it's the themes and the graphics and the lack of any kind of complex story-line.

SMS is a good game, but when it's hard, it's often boring hard, not taxing to the intelligence, more a route-learning and trial and error type thing.

It's just plain wrong to compare games such as SMS to games like SH and Deus Ex, but when you make claims about SMS being a "difficult game" that people seem to be asking for, no, they aren't asking for that, they are asking for games with adult, complex, and interesting story-lines. To co-exist with tiles such as SMS and hopefully other new games with new characters such as Animal Crossing which appeals more to newer games because they don't have the whole Mario nostalgia thing.