Author Topic: No HD DVD drive at 360 launch? (Read 7466 times)

Chris1 · « **on:** August 01, 2005, 12:09:18 AM »

Source: http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Microsoft-Toshiba-HD-DVD-Alliance-Changes-Xbox-360-3902.shtml

Well, I'd say those buying the console at launch are screwed. What a waste!

Deguello · « **Reply #1 on:** August 01, 2005, 02:22:21 AM »

Why is Microsoft turning their back on this impressive new technology that will surely become the standard?

I except 20 editorials by tomorrow.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #2 on:** August 01, 2005, 04:53:51 AM »

Yeah Seriously. Lets see it the gaming community turns its back on Microsoft, like they did with Nintendo about the no HD decision.

This is obviously to keep prices down and to make the system as accessable and affordable to everyone. Just like Nintendo's decision, but I bet there won't be a single article challenging MS for there decision.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #3 on:** August 01, 2005, 07:39:06 AM »

This is where people should realize that people with at least half a brain won't care that their system doesn't have HD...

stevey · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2005, 08:04:21 AM »

I think I heard ms will let people mod there xboxes so I think it be removable. but now I can't figer out to buy a 360 or ps3.

Pale · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2005, 08:13:32 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
Why is Microsoft turning their back on this impressive new technology that will surely become the standard?

I except 20 editorials by tomorrow.

Haha... that made me smile.

MarioAllStar · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2005, 08:18:56 AM »

That article was written June 28th. Why hasn't this received more attention like the lack of HD in the Revolution did?

Basically, if I understand this correctly, the initial XBOX 360 systems will only be compatible with DVD discs, while the second generation systems will be compatible with DVD and HD-DVD. Perhaps I haven't followed Microsoft enough, but do they plan to release games on HD-DVD discs later? If so, wouldn't that render the first generation systems incomptaible with future games without a potentially costly upgrade? What's worse, no HD output or a big batch of systems that are incompatible with games designed for its own system? Someone please correct me if I wrong here.

Edit: It seems that comments on the article point to games not being released on HD-DVD discs. That makes this "upgrade" all the more pathetic. At least with the PS2 and XBOX DVD playback the neccessary disc drive was already built in, so it was a mainly software addition. The discs were used for the benefit of the game, with DVD playback as an extra feature. Now they plan to upgrade the disc drive for the sole reason of adding movie playback. If this doesn't show how gaming systems are moving away from gaming I don't know what does.

pudu · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2005, 08:53:15 AM »

Well Nintendo did a similar thing with it's Panasonic version that could play DVDs too. But didn' t that come out early on? While similar the difference between playing only the GCN disks and playing DVDs aswell was smaller then playing DVD9s and HD-DVD. Hmm not sure what my point is except finding the closest parallel I could think of. How well did those Panisonic cubes sell anyway?

Overall I see this as a fairly stupid attempt to counter Sony's inclusion of BluRay...one that will undoubtably anger the buyers of the original systems and anger developers once they upgrade to HD-DVD compatibility and, yet, cannot even use the space for games. I agree that this could really help their sales latter on but is it worth angering so many loyal fans that buy one from the beggining?

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 01, 2005, 10:25:18 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
That article was written June 28th. Why hasn't this received more attention like the lack of HD in the Revolution did?

This news was posted a while ago, nobody payed it any attention.

BigJim · « **Reply #9 on:** August 01, 2005, 11:04:40 AM »

Are people actually surprised by this? It's been known since before E3 that the platform wasn't going to support HD media. The only reason this is suddenly news is that MS says they could update the system later with it.

And it's still not clear which HD format, or a combination thereof, will be the standard. No matter what anybody says.

stevey · « **Reply #10 on:** August 01, 2005, 01:11:27 PM »

"This is where people should realize that people with at least half a brain won't care that their system doesn't have HD... "

oh did not the ps2 KILL the DC

in japan because they were buying it as a dvd player because the matrix was only on dvd and it was the ceapist dvd player and die in the us because sony hype the ps2 to the point the US stop sony form shiping it to china for fears that it be use to make/launch nuke at the US and that it would have better 3d than toystory and kill pc 3d upright and its a super computer and it be unbeatable in game goodness and lie lie lie lie ...

Obiyo · « **Reply #11 on:** August 01, 2005, 10:03:59 PM »

huh?

Anyway, I remember hearing this about the Xbox360 at least several months ago. The thing about the larger disks isn't so much that you can put more game on there, it's that you can do it in HD. That's the whole purpose of these larger formats coming out, that you can put an entire movie on to one in HD. IIRC I heard that the X360 was going to use 720p, if so then it is entirely plausible that Nintendo would do the same. 720p isn't HD but supposedly it's closer(picture quality-wise) to HD than it is to a standard tv.

EDIT: spelling

hudsonhawk · « **Reply #12 on:** August 02, 2005, 01:32:23 PM »

My only concern with this is that it solidifies Blu-Ray as the de facto next-gen dvd standard. If there's a lot of PS3's out there, and no HD-DVD players, it's pretty clear what the market will decide about HD-DVD. If I were Toshiba, I would be begging MS to include HD-DVD at launch; fact is, though, the format's not ready, certainly no one is ready to manufacture millions of HDDVD-ROM drives and stamp tens of millions of HD-DVDs, and Microsoft isn't going to sit around waiting for anyone to do so.

That said, MS has said the Xbox will work as an upscaling DVD player which, for the time being, is infinitely more useful to me than an HD-DVD player (what with the no HD-DVDs on the market). I'm not convinced high-capacity media will get much market penetration, or make for a huge difference between next-generation consoles. The lower cost-to-produce of DVDs may in fact work in MS' favor.

Obiyo · « **Reply #13 on:** August 02, 2005, 08:12:22 PM »

For expensive media look no further than blank dual-layered dvd's. If and I stress if the Nintendo decides to go with a HD media than it would probably be Blu-ray. Doesn't Nintendo have a partnership of some kind with Matsushita/Panasonic? Panasonic supports Blu-ray last I heard... But in the likely case that they go with dvd, and MS goes with dvd also, than there won't be any reason why Nintendo won't be able to get a port of a game if MS does (hardware wise anyway).

couchmonkey · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2005, 11:51:59 AM »

This is far worse than the lack of HD support on Revolution...IF they start putting games on HD DVD in the future. But Microsoft probably won't do that because it knows darn well that it will piss off consumers. It would take blinding stupidity to make a system that can't play games released after a certain date. A few bugs here and there are acceptable, but not playing the games because of media would be blind.

Assuming Microsoft is just adding an HD DVD movie player to the system later, then who cares? I don't want that feature anyway, and it has no effect on the games. HD TV support does have an effect on gaming (albeit a minor one) so it's more important to me.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2005, 08:19:05 AM »

If this was Sony I'd say there will be HDDVD games but MS probably won't do that. AFAIK they announced they won' do HDDVD games but it wouldn't surprise me if they give in if, say, Square-Enix needs HDDVD for those cutscenes because MS requires HD resolution and the videos will have to be that res as well.

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2005, 12:25:12 PM »

VMD goes upto 100GB on 20 layer DVD

Quote
Mahesh Jayanarayan, a consultant to the company, is keen to emphasise that VMD is not a competing new standard, but an enhancement of the standard DVD format. Indeed, VMD uses the existing red laser technology, the same pick-up lenses and the manufacturing process utilises only existing DVD manufacturing technologies and equipment. Furthermore, the player is fully compatible with standard DVD and other types of optical discs.

NME’s philosophy is to bring to market packaged HDTV at a price consumers have come to expect – and indeed are now used to – with DVD players. Dr Sergey Magnitskiy, one of the VMD developers, estimates that changing the decoder and controller software chips would add “only a few dollars” to the price of a DVD player.

20GB VMD discs will be mass-produced in time for Christmas. The 30GB version should be ready for Summer 2006, according to the company.

Less technologically ambitious than FMD or other very high storage holographic approaches or even, for that matter, Blu-ray and HD-DVD, VMD has the considerable advantage of offering the same high-quality HD experience at a fraction of the price, and now.

What if MS decides to just stick with DVD? WIth this tech they don't need HDDVD or BluRay. They change the decoder and controller software chips and release it with a normal DVD drive, No one is the wiser, and they can gradually release bigger and bigger game disc as needed and HD movies in the future.

They could still release a HDDVD version in the furture if that format were to catch on, but why bother?

HDDVD & BluRay lose?

KDR_11k · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2005, 08:44:27 PM »

Less technologically ambitious?!? I'd call 20 layers on a medium that had no more than two so far (despite being planned to have up to 8 or so) VERY ambitious. Why did noone do that before? Maybe because making 20 layers is not economically viable?

nickmitch · « **Reply #18 on:** August 08, 2005, 06:45:11 PM »

Would that change the thickness of the disk?

KDR_11k · « **Reply #19 on:** August 09, 2005, 11:29:53 AM »

Dunno, I don't think a layer can be that thick when the laser has to penetrate it...

stevey · « **Reply #20 on:** August 09, 2005, 02:57:28 PM »

sorry I this is a little stupid but how do 2 layer dvd work? wouldn't one layer get in the way of an other? and is the data in shiny shiny foil or plastic.

nickmitch · « **Reply #21 on:** August 09, 2005, 05:17:07 PM »

Jumping from 2 to 20 has to increase the thickness of the disk even if it's just 1mm.

And the laser reads past layer 1 on to layer 2.

BigJim · « **Reply #22 on:** August 09, 2005, 10:40:50 PM »

The first layer is semi-transparent, so it can focus past it.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #23 on:** August 09, 2005, 10:51:14 PM »

and is the data in shiny shiny foil or plastic.

Neither. DVDs form a spacetime distortion which can hold huge capacities of data and are read by measuring the deviation of the light beam caused by gravity anomalies. How else can it hold 4.7 billion letters when an A4 sheet can't even hold a fraction of that?

A wise man once said "Stupid question begets stupid answer".

TVMan: Not necessarily, you could just remove the corresponding amount of material from the protective layer.

nickmitch · « **Reply #24 on:** August 10, 2005, 04:45:37 PM »

Could you elaborate?

News:

Author Topic: No HD DVD drive at 360 launch? (Read 7466 times)