Author Topic: first REV screens?  (Read 16864 times)

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Offline Nile Boogie

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2005, 09:47:39 AM »
I didn't know that a company could sell 18,000,000 of any product and still be considered a "failure". Maybe I misunderstood the post.
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Offline BigJim

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2005, 10:53:25 AM »
Theoretical question: How do you know Nintendo wasn't a fad also? Because they've been around 2 generations longer than Sony? Ironically, Sega exposed a vulnerability in Nintendo's philosphy 15 years ago, and it's kind of sad that to this day they still haven't answered it. Next year will likely kick off the fourth generation of competitors exposing Nintendo's same vulnerability.

But anyway...

Is it constructive to be pessimistic about Nintendo's future? Probably not. But as much as people look down on Ian or others for sometimes posting that way, it's easy to say that most of them (including myself) want Nintendo to be on top of the world. Unless the person happened to be a total troll. But Ian is definitely not a troll. Agree or not, he is passionate about his opinions.

The successes and failures of N64/Cube can be debated, and the reality is that neither side is wrong. Everybody is right for their own reasons. Everybody will find ways to justify their position. My feeling is that for as great as many of the Cube games have been, I look more fondly at the N64 than I do the GameCube. The N64 did not collect nearly as much dust as my GameCube has.

The reason why my NGC collected so much dust is because I feel it's had a lack of adequate 3rd party support. Nintendo picks and chooses, and expects developers to come to them. They make their systems for themselves, and it's pretty obvious that they market their system to their own audience by and large as well. Anything that they release that deviates from their "safe" and "star power" titles are token games. Then they can come out and claim they're an "and" company. And that they care about innovation... whatever that *really* means. They've touted innovations that were also DOA, so there is valid reason to wonder why the Rev controller will matter.

If being profitable is your measure of success, then sure Nintendo is great for you. But unless you're a shareholder, I don't know why that matters. It doesn't improve your gaming experience. Sony's SCEA is profitable too. If Sony runs into any problems, it'll be their other divisions running the company down. Debating which is more profitable goes even further off topic. It's not a pissing contest. For all of Nintendo's money, they haven't used it effectively to acquire games that make their system truly well-rounded and for everybody as their PR claims it is. Does anybody really know what just $100 million of that $8 billion war chest could do? I don't mean better hardware, buying a developer, or a massive advertising campaign, but using it as leverage for more 3rd and 2nd party software availability. Instead they sit on it pending a theoretical acquisition, and watch it balloon much faster than it's depleted.

I say this a bunch of times. There's a difference between making games for everybody, and making "everybody" games.

Profitability can be fleeting. Nintendo's marketshare could be halved for the forth generation in a row and no longer be profitable. Then what? All that's left in the argument are Nintendo's philosophy, IPs, and a platform that nobody else cares to develop for because they won't sell in big enough numbers.

If you're content buying Nintendo platforms just for Nintendo games, then you don't have anything to be negative about. The rest of the folks that want more expansive game options have a valid reason to be concerned.  
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Offline Pale

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2005, 11:01:47 AM »
I wasn't using profitability as a measure of their success alone.  The fact that I (and many others) loved the games they released (and still have plenty that are yet to be played) combined with the fact that their profitability means they will be sticking around, means it was a successful generation.

To this day I will never understand the lack of third party support complaint.  For crying out loud, they release enough great first party games to make anyone happy.  If you really want to play non-nintendo games, buy a non nintendo console.  The investment is insignificant if you are a big enough gamer to worry about all those third party games you are missing.

/sigh

Edit:
Also, using finances to 'leverage' third parties would be/is terrible for the industry.  I'm glad Nintendo isn't following that mentality as actively as the competetion.  In any situation where you want an art to flourish, you can't have business practices benefit the huge corporations.  The balance needs to be maintained if small companies want to have any hope of success.
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Offline BigJim

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2005, 12:36:22 PM »
People that boast profitability often don't care about marketshare. Those that boast marketshare often don't care about profitability. People will pick whichever side they want to support their postion. The issues go both ways and neither aspect is guaranteed.

Affection and profitability *today* doesn't guarantee profitability later. The point brought up that their profitability could be lost if their marketshare is halved yet again is a valid one. Heaven forbid they ever be forced to pull from their war chest out of necessity just to keep the company running. Obviously if it gets to that point, Nintendo is doing something wrong. If the 15 year marketshare trend continues, the proposition is not out of the question. I just find it odd that their profitability is taken for granted by some.

Leveraging developers doesn't necessarily involve greasing other corporations' pockets and/or stifiling creativity.

And I'll say again that the lack of 3rd party support is also valid. Nintendo's lineup of "everybody games" is NOT enough to make everybody happy. I think it's fairly obvious since the market has been increasingly passing them by. If I'm a RPG fan, the GameCube is not even a real option because those handful of good ones would not be enough to sustain me for the entire life of the system. Options are important. It's not reasonable to expect people to buy certain games out of lack of other options any more than it is to slap an IP on it and say, "There, you're good for 5 years."

Replace "RPG" with some other popular genres and you can come up with the same result -- there are better console options.

As you suggested, buying other consoles is completely valid also. It's become obvious that the market has done exactly that. That hasn't done Nintendo any good either. Which sadly is just a reminder of the point I've been making.
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Offline ThePerm

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RE:first REV screens?
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2005, 12:50:15 PM »
tyhe first face reminds me of the old man from final fantasy...what they used to show off the power of ps2...anyways with ps3 it was alfred molina from spider man 2
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2005, 01:31:42 PM »
Screens that aren't even presented in standard TV resolution?  What is this trainwreck?
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2005, 03:05:15 PM »
The problem with the Cube and the reason why it could be seen as a "failure" is that right now I'm not playing my Cube and I haven't for months because no games I'm interested in have come out recently.  The Cube might be able to always keep you entertained if you like every single exclusive title but not everyone is going to like every first party game or every occasional third party exclusive and no one should be expected to like everything.  I didn't like everything on the SNES but in August 1995 I sure as hell didn't have a lack of games to play.  I didn't have to like every major title.  I could pick and choose and still have more than enough games to play.  There are still SNES games I'm interested in that I have not had a chance to play.  That console hasn't had games released for it since 1997.  I've played my N64 maybe like four times since I bought a Cube and I'll probably not play the Cube too much after its discontinued as well.  To me a successful console is one where I never have to feel like I'm settling on an average game just because there's nothing else to play.  The Cube was worth buying for the few really amazing games it has had but it has still been pretty disappointing.

I want the Rev to have enough variety and enough third party support that I'm never bored.  I want to be able to always find something to play (and NO I'm not including old games here, I mean REV games not SNES games) without having to settle for anything and not having to love 100% of everything Nintendo makes.  There's nothing to suggest that the Rev is going to reach that point yet.  We need more info first.

Nintendo's like that former great hockey player that has put up disappointing numbers in the last few seasons.  In those situations it's logical to assume that weak performance will continue until we see how he plays in practice and in pre-season games.

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2005, 03:52:24 PM »
So Ian, what's come out on the Xbox or PS2 in the last few months that you've been interested in?

Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2005, 03:59:10 PM »
Quote

There are still SNES games I'm interested in that I have not had a chance to play.

Quote

I want to be able to always find something to play (and NO I'm not including old games here, I mean REV games not SNES games)

What?   If you're finished with the Rev game, than play the SNES game.  After all, you wanted to.  You can't play two games at once.

I'm curious though, what do YOU want the Rev to be?  I want to know what Nintendo needs to do to make it perfect for you.  Once you make up your mind, then you can leave, since it's not coming true, which apparently makes it a failure.

...

This is my favorite of those fake pics.  A game like that would be an absolute masterpiece.  If the Rev can do that I'll be pretty damn happy.  When it comes to realistic graphics, if the game looks like RE4 it's realistic enough for me, I don't need any more.  I don't need anything else, I'd like to see games move more towards the style of the pic I linked to.  It's gorgeous!  So awesome ;___;  
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:first REV screens?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2005, 04:03:11 PM »
The Cube is a failure.  Give it up.  It may have been profitable, but it lost Nintendo the image war which is why everyone in the big media, even IGN is being biased against Nintendo.  People don't believe anyone will buy REV except Nintendo fans.  They lost the image war with Cube and that lost them the next war in the eyes of the media and publishers.  This is an up hill battle for Nintendo, and right now all we know about the console is what its missing.
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Offline mantidor

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2005, 06:37:29 PM »
Its more like the Cube is universally  seen as a failure, despite the fact that numbers prove it otherwise. It was perfectly fine financially, which only is important for the company, not us as consumers. It had great First Party games, WW, Mario Sunshine, Pikmin and Animal Crosing (new franchises!)  Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime 1 and 2,etc. It also had decent third party support, we got RE4 and Viewtiful Joe for christ sakes, again their exclusivity means crap for us as consumers. So what was wrong? simple, MARKETING. Nintendo sucks in that department, no discussion about that, and marketing is not just airing commercials every 30 seconds, its reaching your audience, and the video game audience should be seen from a marketing perspective as teens, yeah sure there are "adult" gamers and "kid" gamers but we are decieving no one, this is a teenager's market and their consumers act like teenagers, just look over at IGN, does it seem like a professional journalist site? no, not at all. Now thats the real Nintendo uphill battle, because they'll never make a "cool" image from a teen's perspective i.e. shooting guns, running your car over a hooker, blowing up stuff etc. so their marketing department have to make Nintendo's image "cool" again in the eyes of teenagers, if the can do that they'll have the number one spot easily.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2005, 07:31:04 PM »
"I'm curious though, what do YOU want the Rev to be? I want to know what Nintendo needs to do to make it perfect for you."

Perfect would be pretty damn impossible to achieve at this point.  They need at least a generation of recovery first.  So that's what I want, recovery.  I want Nintendo to significantly improve.  More variety, better third party support, less stupid easily avoidable mistakes.  The Xbox didn't come close to beating the PS2 but the fans were mostly satisfied and the Xbox 360 is launching from a better position than the Xbox did.  The reason for that is because the Xbox started from nothing and things improved with each year.  Problems and issues were addressed and tackled.  And MS is trying to fix one of their biggest complaints with the Xbox (poor Japanese support) right off the bat with the X360.  They're trying and they're letting the fans know and the fans appreciate it.  I want to see Nintendo directly address their problems that way, let us know they're fixing it, and then make a REAL effort.  Not the usual Nintendo "we'll release one mature game, not market it at all, and call it a day" half-assed effort.  I want a real effort.

Nintendo should be in a better position to launch from with the Rev followup.  I want to see things getting better.  Nintendo doesn't have to be number one with the Rev but they have to look like someday they CAN be number one.

I want to feel that Nintendo is doing everything they can to make things better.  Right now I feel like I have to work too much to be a Nintendo fan.  I have to put up with a lot of crap to really reap the benefits of owning a Nintendo console.  Patience and tolerance shouldn't be requirements.  It should be totally effortless to be a Nintendo fan.  

Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2005, 07:44:05 PM »
Well, that makes sense.  Except that Nintendo has improved a lot since the N64, but you still want more.  You say that you only want improvement, but I find it hard to believe that you'll be satisfied...Oh well, there's really no use arguing over such things, so I'll end it with this:
Quote

It should be totally effortless to be a Nintendo fan.

It is.
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Offline Nile Boogie

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2005, 08:45:15 PM »
 A failure? Not to me:

I could care less about the perception of what Nintendo is and there image as long as I am happy with the content of my product (GameCube).  I may be alone in this but I don't want Nintendo to become number one.  They satisfy my gaming needs whole heartedly and I like the the fact that not everyone thinks Nintendo is "cool".  Number one implies mainstream and this ain't 1987 anymore, mainstream "anything" almost always goes bad. Let Sony stay number one and I shall use them as I see fit, hot 3rd party gaming. Nintendo regaining the number one spot is not as important as making fewer mistakes. The days of having only one console are long gone for the hard core gamer. Plain and simple.

Failure? Arguably 9 of the top 15  games this gen. have been on GameCube. (Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4, Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3, Madden 2004, Viewtiful Joe, Prince of Persia, Soul Calibur II, Wind Waker, Super Smash Bros. Melee. Eternal Darkness, Halo, KOTOR, God of War and Grand Theft Auto: Vice City) and it can be considered a failure? From who's view? Not this gamers. Sprite had a slogan for this back in the day.

Being a Nintendo fan is no different the being a fan of any sports team. So either ride with the team or get run the F--- over. Don't get in the way.  Every great franchise goes through a few bad seasons, even the greatest teams suck for years at a time but do real fans jump ship after thier team don't make the playoffs?  
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2005, 09:08:45 PM »
"Well, that makes sense. Except that Nintendo has improved a lot since the N64, but you still want more."

Matter of opinion.  I feel they've improved on some things but in general have gotten worse.

And I don't give a sh!t if Nintendo is cool.  I just want more variety and options in the lineup and less stupid mistakes that either deny me of options or lose third party support.  I don't want Nintendo to be number one for bragging rights or to be cool.  I want them to strive for number one so that they get more third party support which means more options and more variety.  It also means rental stores having a decent selection of games.

Offline Rancid Planet

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2005, 01:06:10 AM »
Well, I'll tell you this. I've been on the PlanetXbox forums for the last 48 hours STRAIGHT! And it is now obvious to me that we need not worry about the Rev's graphic capabilities. Because The Rev isn't even going to play games. It's a toaster, it will make toast. Think about it. Small, light, doesn't consume much power. Gives gamers something they'll like (everyone likes toast) and a cheap price. Plus by using bread as software they will seriously cut down on prices. Nintendo are a FOR PROFIT company and the people of this world will ALWAYS need hot pop tarts.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to run windows on my computer while washing my car windows and then go jump out of a window with a big green X on my head.

This is Rancid Planet, signing off.

P.S. Nintendo is so gai that it has sex with other gai things while watching the teletubbies suck each other off.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:first REV screens?
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2005, 01:18:20 AM »
OH MY GOD!!!! I think were losing him, he has been exposed WAY longer than the suggested maximum exposure rating.  Quick someone get me 3000cc's of sanity stat.

.........Well what are all of you waiting for, I said stat!!!!

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2005, 03:24:29 AM »
uhhh uhhhh

NAROKATH...

SANTAK...

PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON...

XEL'LOTHATH!!

~~~~~

Is it working?
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:first REV screens?
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2005, 01:52:05 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
uhhh uhhhh

NAROKATH...

SANTAK...

PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON...

XEL'LOTHATH!!

~~~~~

Is it working?



I feel like such a geek for understanding that.

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Offline nemo_83

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RE:first REV screens?
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2005, 01:56:13 PM »
Look out, attack of the double post.

I've tried to convince people that the Cube was not a failure, that it was a financial success.  It has contributed to Nintendo's profits well for the past few years, but it could have been better if they had recieved the third party support the PS2 did.  Personally I find that the Cube had more games worth buying this gen, but beyond those there just wasn't much, especially this year.

In the words of a Sony fanboy.  "Nintendo better be working on a lot of REV games because they sure as hell aren't making any Cube games."
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Offline Rancid Planet

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RE:first REV screens?
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2005, 08:14:18 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
uhhh uhhhh

NAROKATH...

SANTAK...

PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON...

XEL'LOTHATH!!

~~~~~

Is it working?


And people wonder why I say that the PGC forums are where TRUE Nintendo fans lurk. heh.

And yeah thanks, that worked I think. Next time I go to PlanetXbox I'll remember to enchant myself with shield.

But you know, I still have this urge to beat the crap out of Steve Jobs. Eh, I'll get it out of my system by playing the most Nintendo-like game released this gen. Pikmin! And I'll do it for three hours in a row. That's right I'll beat the whole game! OOOOh burn!

Offline RABicle

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RE: first REV screens?
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2005, 03:24:01 AM »
Quote

I still have this urge to beat the crap out of Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs is a man amoung men, he would devastate you or anyone else bar Reggie.
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Offline Rhoq

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RE:first REV screens?
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2005, 04:18:54 AM »
I bet they would make one hell of a tag team.

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Offline stevey

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RE:first REV screens?
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2005, 04:31:11 PM »
oh so that how the quote thingy work.

Quote

Originally posted by: Rancid Planet
Well, I'll tell you this. I've been on the PlanetXbox forums for the last 48 hours STRAIGHT! And it is now obvious to me that we need not worry about the Rev's graphic capabilities. Because The Rev isn't even going to play games. It's a toaster, it will make toast. Think about it. Small, light, doesn't consume much power. Gives gamers something they'll like (everyone likes toast) and a cheap price. Plus by using bread as software they will seriously cut down on prices. Nintendo are a FOR PROFIT company and the people of this world will ALWAYS need hot pop tarts.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to run windows on my computer while washing my car windows and then go jump out of a window with a big green X on my head.

This is Rancid Planet, signing off.

P.S. Nintendo is so gai that it has sex with other gai things while watching the teletubbies suck each other off.


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr The power of reggie comples you the power reggie comples you "holy water" be gone evil gost of gates! "holy water" and toaster do take lots of power 50 lights = toaster

Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
uhhh uhhhh

NAROKATH...

SANTAK...

PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON PARGON...

XEL'LOTHATH!!

~~~~~

Is it working?


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Offline nickmitch

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RE:first REV screens?
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2005, 06:38:22 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Rhoq
I bet they would make one hell of a tag team.



They could propably beat Hawk and Animal: The Road Warriors. If Hawk was still around. R.I.P.

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