Topic: BLAH BLAH BLAH: GameCube 64

[TheYoungerPlumber]

You can discuss the BLAH BLAH BLAH: GameCube 64 article here.

Also, we welcome feedback on this somewhat different, more roundtable-ish format for BLAH BLAH BLAH.

[Bill Aurion]

I'm revolting...

[Mario]

Here we go again..

Quote
Jonathan Lindemann: I never had a problem with Nintendo courting the kid market. Most of their younger-skewing games are brilliant. It's the fact that they pursue this market to the exclusion of all else that bothers me.

Uh... no, they aren't. Their games appeal to EVERYONE, and some games like Metroid Prime, only appeal to people over a certain age. Am I a young kid for enjoying Wario Ware?

Quote
For example, I'm playing God of War on PS2, absolutely amazing game, sure it skirts some boundaries but it's spectacular. Why isn't it on GameCube? There's no real reason aside from the fact that Sony has cultivated that "mature" (whatever that means) market segment while Nintendo has ignored it, so games like GoW are never released for their platforms.

That's pretty silly, might as well ask why Metroid Prime or Eternal Darkness aren't on PS2 since PS2 is so mature and Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness are rated Mature.

All I see is whining, I guess I should consider myself lucky that none of those negative points really affect me at all, and GameCube is my number one console, I have a PS2 but only for a few games, GC has the most variety in my opinion. As a gamer i'd rather Nintendo didn't scale back on their big first party releases just so a bunch of crappy EA games sell a few more copies.

Are you guys really so angry that Nintendo has no big GC games in April? Have you already played and finished all the other 350 odd games released? Geez, i'm too busy playing Jungle Beat and Paper Mario 2 to even thing about getting more games yet, and I still haven't bought RE4 yet! I wish I had as much time and money as you guys to be looking at getting more games already.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Firstly, this article was not designed to be a whine-fest, nor do I believe it is.  It started as a simple conversation that evolved into something we agreed was post-worthy.

Honestly I'm not annoyed at all about April's non-lineup.  But PS2 does have games right now, and it is an issue worth considering.

My stance is this: I don't personally mind if most good games released for Nintendo system are Nintendo-published.  The problem is that most GC owners are like me.  And this is precisely because Nintendo is such a strong first party publisher.  What CAN Nintendo do?  They shouldn't hold back their own games, but their own games disuade third parties from even trying.  Quite the pickle.

[Jonnyboy117]

You know, I have two jobs and am a full time grad student and I've still run out of GameCube games I want to play.  Like many other people, I do a fairly good job of playing the games I want to play around the time they come out, and avoiding the ones I have no interest in or that I know are crap.  So when only one game comes out for the system in all of April, and it's one I'm not interested in, and I've played most of the previously released games that I want to play, yes Houston, there is a problem.  You could reduce your argument down to any number of games in a system's library, and it's still invalid.  Active gamers need continual releases or they get bored with their systems.  Yes, I could go back and get every single star in Super Mario 64 DS, but I don't want to, and none of the newer games interests me, so my DS will continue to sit on that table like a brick until I finally see a game I'm interested in playing.  Oh wait, my import copy of Meteos is due any day.  :-)  Sure am glad DS came out in America before Japan...a lot of good it did us.

[Jonnyboy117]

And, I want to add that if you can't see the parallels between the final years of the N64 and these final years of the GameCube as the article's title implies, you're freaking crazy.  Yeah, I'm excited as hell for Zelda, but that's a long way off.

[Bill Aurion]

Firstly, this article was not designed to be a whine-fest, nor do I believe it is.

Yeah, I guess you're right...This surpasses "whine" into "IGN/1up.com" levels...

And I'd love to know if you've purchased Jungle Beat, Jonny...

[PaLaDiN]

I can see your argument for the DS, sure... it's why I want Nintendo to stop wasting their time on online and get some DS games out NOW.

But GC? Jungle Beat just came out...

[StrikerObi]

He got the import of Jungle Beat if I remember correctly, probably because there was nothing to play in December except for Metroid Prime II which I'm sure he beat ASAP when he got it, because he's a huge Metroid fan.

I got Jungle Beat and burned it out in a weekend. It's probably my fault for playing it too much that weekend, but I'm still pretty much done with it. Now I'm playing Lumines and WipeOut Pure. Both of which I'm pretty sure I've clocked more time on already than I have on my DS that I got at launch.

[Artimus]

Great convo guys. Nice to see you saying the truth unlike some people on your board.

[Bill Aurion]

Like the people that enjoy Nintendo's games?  Oh **** I NEVER SAW THAT COMING!

[Deguello]

Hey Artimus, you get ZERO points for kissing an ass.

I don't agree with most of the staff here.

Hell this is a big waste of time anyway.  PGC did a special on a bad interview with IGN?  While Ubisoft in another story is promoting in-game advertisement like it's a good thing?  We did a special in THIS?  The UbiSoft thing is worth a million editorials.  Color me disappointed.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Like the people that enjoy Nintendo's games?  Oh **** I NEVER SAW THAT COMING!

I really hate how so many people who hate reading criticism of Nintendo's policies treat criticism as fanboyish insulting against Nintendo.  We like Nintendo, and that's why felt this was worth discussing.

One game a month is enough for me, and I love Nintendo games, so I'm not unhappy with Nintendo's first party parcelling strategy.  But Nintendo fans who are content (like me) should still try to understand why others might be less satisfied.

[Berto2K]

Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
You know, I have two jobs and am a full time grad student and I've still run out of GameCube games I want to play.  

I really hope you are not counting your work here at PGC as one of those jobs Jonny.  I work 2 real life jobs (60+ hrs/wk) where I get paid, plus my countless hours working at AMN.  If you can't find ways to keep enjoying your games, its nobody's fault but your own.

Why should I care about 3rd party games when most of the time they half ass the quality or delay the release dates for Cube versions until months later.  And then they say its the Cube's userbase fault for their lack of sales.

I will agree that Nintendo is in a Catch 22.  They are so huge themselves, that if they slow their productioin more 3rd party games might sell.  But if they slow their revenues drop and lose employees.  From their perspective, ya its a no brainer to put your best out there as much as possible to keep their income as high as possible.

[Mario]

I understand where you're coming from TYP, I feel the same regarding being content about the GC lineup, but I also understand the people complaining, but that's their loss, and to me it honestly just sounds like they're complaining for the sake of complaining, their reasons are valid but I just don't understand what they are feeling. A lot of games on GC to me are timeless so I always have something to play.

[Bill Aurion]

I really hate how so many people who hate reading criticism of Nintendo's policies treat criticism as fanboyish insulting against Nintendo.

Try reading Artimus' post again..."Truth"?  A jumble of opinionated criticisms is "truth"?  Believe it or not, there are people like me that love Nintendo games for what they are and don't complain about a "lack of mature content" because that's the kind of gamer I am...I'm going to give an alternative example...Look at the PS2 lineup...Look at the XBox lineup...I own both consoles, but guess what!?  VERY LITTLE APPEALS TO ME...Wait, this sounds familiar...

I am MORE than satisfied with my GameCube, as I love my so-called "kid-oriented" games since they are fun, and I play games to have fun...I am MORE than satisfied with my DS, with the super-fresh Yoshi Touch & Go and Wario Ware Touched...I am NOT impressed by "console experience" PSP and it's boring stockpile of PS2 rejects and ports...

Games that sacrifice gameplay for their mature themes like Prince of Persia sicken me, and I just outright can't stand most of the games on either my PS2 or XBox...Why don't they adapt to my tastes?  Maybe I should make a whiny bitchfest about how much both Sony and MS haven't appealed to my tastes?

So this stupid "Oh the GC and DS do not satisfy my tastes" crap can EASILY fit the other consoles as well depending on a person's tastes...period...

[Artimus]

What PS2 and XBOX games do you own, Bill? And if they suck so much why did you buy them?

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Quote
Believe it or not, there are people like me that love Nintendo games for what they are and don't complain about a "lack of mature content" because that's the kind of gamer I am

Of course I believe you.  Where did I complain that I wanted more mature games on the GC?  I'm saying OTHERS are complaining about that, and they have a reason to.  Nintendo promised they would expand to the more "mature" market, but they have not been successful.

And yes, you can certainly complain about how Microsoft and Sony are aiding the formation of a souless industry future.  You're right.  Go ahead and complain about how the Xbox doesn't have enough quality family-friendly content--I'll tell you that you are absolutely correct, its line-up doesn't appeal to me, so I don't own the system.

So I guess in some way I do agree with you, Bill: we don't need to complain if we can just buy another system and fill the void.  But, then, shouldn't Nintendo prefer if gamers didn't need to buy a second system to get their fix?  I think this is the root of many complaints.  But of course, I'm talking for a group I am not a member of, so I must be careful.  Perhaps StrikerObi or the Jonnys should confirm/refute my statements of their positions.  

[Deguello]

Quote
What PS2 and XBOX games do you own, Bill? And if they suck so much why did you buy them?

Read his post again, attempt to comprehend it, and try to reduce your level of moron.

[mkeyes]

I realize that this will probably get me killed however I think that since Nintendo is acting like a 3rd party perhaps they should consider selling themselves to Microsoft (yes I know this will never happen). If you look at the next generation of systems Nintendo & Microsoft's core components are fairly similar (IBM CPU & ATI graphics) so why couldn't Microsoft buy Nintendo and then simply release two systems each designed differently? You could buy the Nintendo model or the Microsoft model each would play the same games but it would allow the people who like Nintendo system designs to get their fix and allow the 'mature' gamers to get their fix. Frankly it wouldn't be that bad either since I think Microsoft would really push Nintendo games and put them online. It would also allow Microsoft to get plenty of leverage in the Japanese market. Although as time goes on Microsoft will need Nintendo less and less since they'll be developing their own relationships and what not. I think that Nintendo needs to realize that out of all the companies that could buy them (EA & Sony) I think Microsoft would be the most likely to not change things on a game creation level too dramatically and not treat the properties horribly.

[PaLaDiN]

I've been thinking and there's something about this whole argument that doesn't gel with me.

If you think about it, you're basically asking Nintendo to be more like Sony and Microsoft... where does that leave people like me and Bill who are more than satisfied with Nintendo's way of doing things? I think part of the reason I hate this online movement so much is because Nintendo's just following Microsoft and Sony, and in so doing are dedicating less time and effort into what makes their own stuff special.

People are already complaining that the DS doesn't have hardcore Nintendo fan games or not enough Nintendo games in the first place, and then those same people are turning right around and asking Nintendo to hurry up with their online plan... I think they're directly related, I think Nintendo's trying too much already to be more like Sony and Microsoft. It's why Iwata's words cheer me up a lot more than Reggie's... screw the people wanting Nintendo to follow suit in their competitors' footsteps, screw the online lovers, I want Nintendo to forge their own path like they always have... to me that's always been part of their charm, even when they've been wrong... that I can get a different experience on Nintendo systems than I can get on the others. It just saddens me when I see that not only are they starting to conform to the industry and let Sony and Microsoft dictate where it should go next, but that their own former fans are actively encouraging this.

[Athlon-pv]

The problem described in the part do sound like what happened to the N64 more or less. But somethings are hard to change.

MS and Sony :

How can a company like Nintendo fight these 1 just making a huge debt to sell it systems and buying "every" developer to work exclusively on their platform (hence no game on the GC) (and shell space in stores also is a key item Nintendo loses out (atleast here in Europe))
and the other which is the reigning king of the console's with a media budget for triple A release's everyone drools at.

Nintendo cant persue it like these companies have for different reasons. A development cycle these days is a good 2 years so if Nintendo wants to get hold of these new people for their system it is a long wait for them to have finally shipped a product (and devs are picky these days (when you can sell your title on PS2 or Xbox why bother with GameCube?)).

But when you say there are droughts indeed , but would or should it be filled with average titles produced by Nintendo 1st or 2nd party "fillers" not sure if that would be the answer.


The things that are changing are release dates (between America/Europe/Japan), nothing more then "good press" for  Nintendo. Indeed Nintendo is lacking some sort of stretch that they cant get "good" games on their system. But im not sure if we are missing out on all those "duds" that appear on other systems. Where we get "hyped" into thinking the games on that system are substantially more and better then on "our" platform.

Being that i am a single console owner and hardly play anymore i still got bothered enough to buy Tales of Symphonia , which i rather enjoyed. I wish it would be a little stronger but i cant see Nintendo finding a smart strategy to come up with the goods on a short term.  

[trip1eX]

Nintendo has stated the direction they are going.  They are going after the casual or non-gamer.  I was looking forward to their next gen controller until I heard they want to make the controller look inviting to Mom's.  That kinda put a damper on Nintendo's next gen for me.

I wanted to hear about innovation for the gamer who enjoys Nintendo's games and likes games in general.  I wanted a controller that brought some mouse-like precision to the console.  

Instead they are going after Soccer Mom's.  

I'm a new Cube owner too.  I just got one in January.  Love it.  If you haven't played Nintendo games in years (like me) then it is an entire breath of fresh air.   But I don't want my games to get more cute or too much simpler.  I like Zelda and Mario and Metroid and Pikmin and Lugis and Mario Kart.  

[Athlon-pv]

btw i do hope that the drought is due to them having enough people working on DS and Revolution titles

[Mario]

Quote
Originally posted by: trip1eX
Nintendo has stated the direction they are going.  They are going after the casual or non-gamer.  I was looking forward to their next gen controller until I heard they want to make the controller look inviting to Mom's.  That kinda put a damper on Nintendo's next gen for me.

I wanted to hear about innovation for the gamer who enjoys Nintendo's games and likes games in general.  I wanted a controller that brought some mouse-like precision to the console.  

Instead they are going after Soccer Mom's.  

I'm a new Cube owner too.  I just got one in January.  Love it.  If you haven't played Nintendo games in years (like me) then it is an entire breath of fresh air.   But I don't want my games to get more cute or too much simpler.  I like Zelda and Mario and Metroid and Pikmin and Lugis and Mario Kart.

I think you're a bit confused in the direction they are going in, simple controls and simple inferface does not mean simple gameplay (Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat proves this). This way, they are appealing to EVERYONE, which is their goal. There's no way they're going to abandon their core fanbase that's keeping them alive. Also, we haven't even seen Nintendo's next console yet, anything you hear is pure speculation, and it's not very wise to make up your mind about it before it even exists, just wait for E3 next month when they show it, i'm sure you'll be pleased.