Topic: BONNIE RUBERG: What a Girl Wants

[Bloodworth]

Please use this thread to discuss Bonnie's latest fascinating editorial.

[PaLaDiN]

Fascinating is right. I especially like the conclusion, it's something I thought all through the thing.

One thing, though.

“Just because girls are better at it than you, doesn’t mean it sucks. It means you suck.�

If you really went by that philosophy then you'd have to agree that most girls suck.

[Bill Aurion]

Well if my sister is any indication, girls like to beat up other characters in Super Smash Brothers with Kirby... (She's not very lady-like...)

[Mario]

I think they play The Sims, RPGs and games like Animal Crossing because they want CONTROL. MUST CONTROL EVERYTHING.

So yeah blah blah blah in conclusion girls are allowed to like any game, just like any other person? That was totally worth an editorial.

[RickPowers]

Actually, it's because girls approach games in a different manner than boys, and are looking to get different things out of the experience.  If you're interested in the subject, Sheri Graner Ray wrote an excellent book called "Gender Inclusive Game Design", and it's a fascinating read.  

[RABicle]

My sister loves Jungle Beat even more than me. The only games she likes is Sims, Animal Crossing, Crazi Taxi and now DK.

[Rancid Planet]

A wonderful piece Bonnie. Well done.

[Karl Castaneda #2]

I always enjoy reading your editorials on this subject, Bonnie. It's great to see gaming from the perspective of a woman. Keep it up .

[Rize]

Great writing.

You know, my parents used to play Intellivision (our first console), but stopped when Nintendo came around and things became less abstract.  However, both of my parents played Tetris on Game Boy (they'd apparently heard about it somewhere at work or on TV as a game that even adults were playing because I don't remember introducing them).  That phenomenon is not likely to be repeated again though (unless Nintendo has something really surprising up its sleeve for revolution).

A here's something funny to consider though.  My mom (not my dad though) got *really* into Wolf 3d.  She was eventually playing the game on the hardest difficulty level (save/reload playing of course) and also keeping a book of every secret passage in the game (in her really neat "mom" handwriting).  It was very weird.  We couldn't get her to play Doom when it came out though.  Too bad... if she had gotten interested in that we might have gotten our computer upgraded years sooner  

[InfinitysEnd]

The reason most girls attach to games like puzzle games, DDR and the Sims is because they are multi-gendered games.  Even a game like Super Smash Bros. is very multi-gendered.  I actually think most all Nintendo games are made so both boys and girls have the ability to enjoy them.  Almost all games nowadays you can instantly tell: was this made just so a man can boast his masculinity and go on a power-rage-killing-spree?  Or possibly something to make captain winky get excited?  Another type of game that many girls are into are MMO's and RPGs.  These are definitely multi-gendered games and almost always have male and female characters to play as.  Guys usually like them for the exciting parts and battles, girls usually like them for the romance and soap-opera-ish storylines.  Many RPGs storylines resemble those found in anime, something that is very very popular among girls (i think more than guys nowadays).  When it all comes down to it, I am just very happy more girls are gaming, because gaming IS something that can be enjoyed by both genders, not just one or the other.

[RickPowers]

" The reason most girls attach to games like puzzle games, DDR and the Sims is because they are multi-gendered games."

Actually, that couldn't be further from the truth.  What is the case, however, is that the games you listed simply make no assumption about gender.  Here's some food for thought (and I've ripped this quite liberally from the aforementioned book):

* Men excel at targeting moving objects in an uncluttered field.  Women excel at targeting non-moving objects in a cluttered field.
* Men are willing to take risks in order to learn the provided challenge.  Women are less willing to take risks when learning to play; they want to know how it works before they attempt it.

Women tend to dislike fighting games because traditionally, they have to "fight the technology".  The moves aren't explicity laid out for them, they have to play the game and discover the moves by playing, which violates the second point above.  Why does Smash Bros appeal to girls more than other fighting games?  It's not the cartoon graphics ... it's that the moves are all very straight forward, and listed in the manual.  Why do graphic-adventure games (like Myst) do well with women?  It's point one ... looking for the thing that is out of place is more like hitting a stationary object in a cluttered field.

There are always exceptions, but if you look back at the games that women tend to enjoy, you're going to see some clear patterns, and it frequently has little to do with the presentation (though that does have an impact to some degree).

[PullZeStrings]

Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers

* Men are willing to take risks in order to learn the provided challenge.  Women are less willing to take risks when learning to play; they want to know how it works before they attempt it.

Actually, I contradict that statement.  I usually pop the disc in play the game right away.  I usually don't look at the manual until way after I purchase a game.

Yet, I contradict my last statment.  I hate my my cousin or anyone pops in a game and 'challenges me' in a game I never played before.  At least give me a chance to figure it out before you challenge me.


As a girl gamer, I do like Animal Crossing.  Katamari Damacy is one of my favorite games of all time.  Yet, I could go a few rounds of blowing stuff up and killing a couple of things.  Good clean fun in multilating.

[Don'tHate742]

Umm this is weird. I geuss the editorial (which was nice by the way) allows a buffer zone for those that contradict the normal thought, but this girl that I know, majorly steps over the line. She plays more games then me. It's not that she's not popular or beautiful, it's just because she really likes games. She enjoys movies, going out, shopping, getting her hair done, playing tennis....etc. You know all the activities popular with girls her age (18).

She has a GameCube though, with almost every first and second party titles as well as some good third party titles (Super Monkey Ball is a good example). When I play new games that come out, I usually play it at her house. She played Super Mario Sunshine to death, and I think she is still looking for every coin. She plays Soul Calibur with me and is actually a huge challenge. She doesn't press randomly like most new-comers do, she concentrates and thinks out her moves. Not to mention her skills in SSBM and Capcom vs. SNK; shes fantastic! She has TOS, and that's actually where I played it first. I was playing multiplayer with her when she first got it, and I was there when we finished it together. She got very emotional with that game. As for racers, she loves F-Zero to death. I suck compared to her. She hasn't played a single Zelda game till Wind Waker, and it blew her mind. She had alot of trouble with it. I showed her the new LOZ and she thought it looked amazing. I was surprised because I was expecting her to favor the cel-shaded graphics over the realistic ones. Nope, I was wrong.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is exactly like Bonnie's: It all comes down to if the girl is willing to give a game a good run. A good run as in, picking up the controller and playing for a at least thirty minutes. I think most girls would like it if they gave it a shot. If the girl I know can fall in love with games, any girl can really.

[matt oz]

In my "Video Game History" class that I dropped, there was only one girl.  And she weighed like 300 pounds.

I met a pretty girl once who knew what Mario Kart was...  That's the only experience I have with girls and gaming.  Oh, yeah, except when my neighbor beat me at Mario Kart 64.  Girls seem to go crazy for that franchise...

[Robageejammin]

whoa hold on...what school is this?!......AND WHY DID YOU DROP IT?!

[couchmonkey]

Quote
Actually, I contradict that statement. I usually pop the disc in play the game right away. I usually don't look at the manual until way after I purchase a game.
Yet, I contradict my last statment. I hate my my cousin or anyone pops in a game and 'challenges me' in a game I never played before. At least give me a chance to figure it out before you challenge me.

Perhaps that's the same thing in another form?  Playing through a game on your own is like getting to know it at less of a risk than playing against others.  Being a bit of a girly man, I can attest that I'm more willing to take risks against the computer than against other people.

Of course, we should also be careful when we use ourselves as measuring sticks for anything.  Everyone is different, and saying that boys want to play a certain type of game and girls want to play a certain type of game is a generalized statement - of course it doesn't apply precisely to everyone!  But looking for patterns as Rick said will probably show that, on a large scale (thousands of people instead of you and your circle of friends), women are interested in certain types of games more than men are and vice-versa.

In other words, just because I don't like horror and Resident Evil 4 didn't fix every single problem the series had doesn't change the fact that a whole lot of people think it's an amazing, near-perfect game.

[matt oz]

Quote
Originally posted by: Robageejammin
whoa hold on...what school is this?!......AND WHY DID YOU DROP IT?!

I mentioned this in a previous post a while back.  Basically what happened was my college offered a class called "Intro to Computer Game Development."  Except it turns out the class was actually a video game history class, and our textbook was Steven Kent's "Ultimate History of Video Games," a book I had already read.  So I dropped the class because it would have been a waste of time.  I wanted to learn how to develop games, not learn about where they came from.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Meh, i would've kept it, easy A

[KDR_11k]

So, all in all if you want to get those female gamers you must slowly introduce them to "serious" games to break down their inhibition?

[Hostile Creation]

Don'tHate, are you dating this girl?  And if not, why not?

I liked this editorial a lot, probably preferred it to the other gender-oriented editorials she's written (not to suggest they're bad, I just liked this one more).  Many of the points are very accurate and I agree with most of it.
I know a few girl gamers.  One is an RPG girl who owns a PS2, though she plays Soul Calibur as well and wants to play Wind Waker.  Another I don't know exactly what she plays, but she goes more for quirky stuff: Katamari Damacy and Mario vs. Donkey Kong I know for sure.  The third seems to play a variety; she owns a DS and. . . acquired mine for me.  We'll play together online, probably, and hopefully I can convert my other friends to it as well.
My mother and sister like DS a lot.  They love the Mario minigames and Warioware Touched!.  I've been buying with them in mind.  My mother loves puzzle games, so I'll get Meteos, and I know my sister will like Nintendogs.
Most girls I know play Dance Dance Revolution almost exclusively, my exgirlfriend and a few girls I've met at college.  A few play RPGs, but not as many.  Few of them play Nintendo, though I suspect they'd like them immensely if they did.
I was talking with friends at lunch the other day, and they were talking about the sims.  I've never played it, but mostly the girls were talking about it.  The other guy at the table wasn't much of a gamer, from what I can tell.
Two of the girls I normally hang out with love Nintendo.  I haven't discussed it with them much yet, but I know one played and adored Pikmin 2 (oh yes) and the other really wants a DS.  I should talk to them about it for sure, now that I think about it