Topic: EDITORIAL: Choose Your Weapons

[NWR_Lindy]

True, but I don't think they need to cut the price just yet when they're already $100 cheaper than their competitor.  If the PSP suddenly dropped its launch price to $199 then things would be a little different.  As it stands you can buy the DS+2, maybe 3 games for the same price as just the PSP itself.  That's a huge difference.

I have no problem with Nintendo selling the DS as a dedicated games machine, but with it's PDA-inspired design I think it'd be a crime not to give it PDA functionality.  People would eat up the DS if it could do more than play games.  To illustrate my point, which one of these descriptions would get you more excited about the DS:

1.  Nintendo DS plays great games.

2.  Nintendo DS plays great games, but it can also do the following if you want it to:

- Play ASF files, MP3 files, and MPEG4 movies
- Use VoIP to talk to anybody anywhere in the world for free (or really cheap)
- Run a fully-licensed version of PalmOS for PDA capability

Nobody in their right mind would prefer #1 over #2.  There's nothing wrong with Nintendo making the DS into as versatile a machine as possible.  The whole "we only make great games, we'll take the high road, we're not an electronics company like those guys blah blah blah" philosophy is great and all, but the bottom line is that customers want as much bang for their buck as possible.   You pay a lot for the PSP, but I think many consumers can justify that cost because they perceive that they're getting a lot for that money.  We've already seen this with the PS2 - the fact that it could play DVDs was a big differentiator for that console generation.  Casual gamers looked at the PS2 vs. GameCube and said, "Both of these consoles play great games, but I'll be able to play DVDs on my PS2.  I'll get the PS2."  That same scenario could repeat itself with the PSP, but Nintendo can still do something about it.

silks

[Gamefreak]

I completely agree.
You know what else would rock? That little GBA port needs to be used for something. How bout an accessory (let's call it the "DS upgrade") which contains all the software you need for PDA functionality, calculator, full online profiling, and preferebly some flash memory in there (say? 256MB? 512?) for use as a sort of "hard drive" (downloadable content, patches, saved stuff like maps from Advance Wars, etc), and plus, two little analog sticks sticking out of it that would be snuggled comfortably under the dpad and buttons... And heck, instead of having built in flash memory, you could merge it into the play-yan by having an SD card slot, and use the SD as your hard drive. That way you could also have movies and mp3's on there in addition to your other stuff.
Something like that (SD adaptor, operating system, and two analog sticks) could easily be marketed at around $50, fixing all the DS's problems and keeping the price still under PSP. Except now the PSP has no advantages other than more power.

[NWR_Lindy]

More food for thought....

Gamasutra.com poll on DS vs. PSP

They bring up a lot of the points we've made.

silks

[Caillan]

With the price drop, I meant a temporary deal which woud cause a spike in sales and therefore coverage just before the PSP is launched. They don't need a permanent price drop, but increasing awareness of your product just before your competitors launch is always a good idea. I'm guessing their advertising campaign will bolstered as well.

"Gamasutra.com poll on DS vs. PSP"

Heh, can you guess which response is mine? The next 'Question of the Week', which should be up soon, asks developers about what innovations they think the next generation of consoles will help them bring. It will be very interesting to see what they say.  

[Rize]

You know, I can't imagine they'd wire that GBA port into the system without planning to use it kinda like the N64's memory card slot.  The new DS carts/cards are way too msall for things like rumble and tilt sensor I think, but as long as they thought ahead when designing the system, they could easily have a DS game/card/app access whatever's in the GBA game slot.

"Heh, can you guess which one is mine? The next 'Question of the Week', which should be up soon, asks developers about what innovations they think the next generation of consoles will help them bring. It will be very interesting to see what they say."

Is that so?  I seem to remember doing an editorial on that subject recently...

I wonder if they'll give ridiculous answers or realistic ones (or a good mix).

[gerdi3xgp]

i have a theory behind 'third pillar'thing, see i think that nintendo new it wouldnt be able to have anything soon to beat the psp,and knowing mainstream it would totaly chose psp over gba, so there was a rush in to push for the development of the DS and to get out as many apps as possible for a launch that would beat the PSP's launch.
By doing this they knew that even if the DS could not hold of the PSP the fact that the GAMEBOY combined with the DS would allow maybe enough force to at least hold the PSP from taking over the portable market or pushing them into second place.
So in the end its really not about really competing with the PSP as it is buying enough time to come up with maybe some killer apps or so new strategy to deal with Sony,or maybe even start planing the new GAMEBOY.

 Nintendo cant really afford to keep losing ground in the market share cause that will push it into a software only company like SEGA.

Unlike the past companies who have competed in the handheld market Sony has reasources unlike those other ones have ever had and their products have a history of quality with mainstream america
     

[Ian Sane]

The PSP and DS compete because for the average consumer it's an "either or" purchase.  Apples and oranges are cheap.  People have no problem buying both because although they're both fruit they taste pretty different.  That metaphor is popular because it makes sense.

PSP and DS are like Macs and PCs.  Sure those are technically different.  They do slightly different things and appeal to different demographics.  However computers are expensive so to the average consumer it's an "either or" purchase in that they'll buy either that one or that one but not both.  Portable gaming systems are expensive so the average consumer will buy a PSP or a DS but rarely both.  You can argue the different demographics all you want but the truth is a PSP sale is 90% of the time a not-a-DS sale.

A lot of people say that Sony targets a different market than Nintendo in that they target adults and non-gamers.  That's false.  Sony targets EVERYBODY.  The PS1 and 2 have something for kids, teens, mature adults, immature adults, males, females, hardcore gamers, casual gamers, and non-gamers.  That's why both consoles have been so successful.  People say Nintendo has a lock on the kids market.  Bullsh!t.  The PS2 has tons of good E rated games and is more popular with kids.  Plus kids find adult games cool.  Kids are not interested in kids stuff.  You will never win over kids with just bright colourful cutesy stuff.  There are kids who like that stuff and you should have that on a console but there are kids that are more rebelous that love having the option of something like GTA or, if you want to take it back to my generation, Mortal Kombat.  Basically Sony targets everyone while Nintendo targets not quite everyone.

If you look at Nintendo's major success stories you'll see that they were targeting everyone.  The NES, SNES, GB/GBC, and GBA all targetted what at the time was the entire market.  The NES and SNES targeted everyone who played consoles while the Gameboy has targeted everyone who plays portables.  Of course none of these systems competed with Sony.  Sony expanded the console market to appeal to a broader range of people and now they're going to do the same with the portable market.  The number one system maker is always the guy who targets the entire market.  In order for Nintendo to remain number one in the portable market the DS has to target and appeal to everyone or it will lose.

And there's talk that the DS isn't going to die or anything so PSP vs DS isn't that crucial.  Yes it is.  In the console market the Gamecube is the loser console.  It's not the alternative console as in "niche product with limited appeal" it's the loser console as in "sucky product no one likes."  Nintendo has managed to stay relevent because they were always the undisputed king of portables.  If the DS becomes the loser portable then what's going to happen to Nintendo?  That's going to create a very negative image for them and they'll have a real struggle to remain as a hardware manufacturer.  People always use this "Nintendo is profitable" excuse to deflect any criticism.  Well how profitable Nintendo would be if they weren't the portable market leader?  Being last place in all markets would screw them up pretty good.

[NWR_Lindy]

Ian Sane: I totally agree, although the video game market is so large now that being number two or three can still be a profitable position.  The video game industry is almost like the car industry now - the pie is really big, and it's the big dogs at the top fighting for incremental market share.

silks

[PaLaDiN]

"It's not the alternative console as in "niche product with limited appeal" it's the loser console as in "sucky product no one likes.""

Is that seriously how you see it? I've never seen anybody refer to the Gamecube as the sucky product no one likes... it's just the product they don't talk about. When I tell people I have a GC, they're surprised because that's uncommon, not because it sucks. When I ask them if they want to play, they're more than willing to try and more often than not are pleasantly surprised.

[Ian Sane]

"Is that seriously how you see it? I've never seen anybody refer to the Gamecube as the sucky product no one likes... it's just the product they don't talk about."

That's not how I see it but that's how I think a lot of other people see it.  The feeling I get from people who don't like or want a Gamecube is that it's not a very good console as opposed to just not for them.  The Xbox loses out big to the PS2 but it doesn't have a negative image which to me suggests that it's an alternative console for people who don't want a PS2.  The Gamecube however tends to have a negative image like it's a poor product.  I personally don't think it is but that's the perception.

[Don'tHate742]

I lent my friend, who owned a PS2, my gamecube and some of my games; in return he let me borrow his PS2. He is in college, likes to party have fun...you know that type. Anyways, he loved Super Monkey Ball, even more than prime. Also, he liked WindWaker, SSBM, and Soul Calibur. He had a blast with it. I enjoyed the PS2, but I missed my cube. Anyways, it turned out he also missed his PS2 solely becuase of the sports games, and multiplayer games such as Tekken.

The DS is in a bad position; maybe were being pessemistic, but I can't help but see the DS as a handicapped little boy compared to the PSP which is the captian of the soccer team. The DS needs to step it up, and I think Nintendo knows that. They know that a repeat of the N64/Gamecube era would be disastrous especially in the HandHeld market, that they have been milking the crap out of for sometime. They need to launch plan B of this DS operation...whatever that maybe, and soon. Hopefully online (DemaSked or whatever), or PDA functions or both...or whatever just something. Don't sit around on your ass this time Nintendo, be aggressive.

The US is the country that falls into hype more easily than other. Here, image is everything. Why do you think Sony products in general do so well over here? Well, ignorance yes, but also they have the reputation as being cool or even the best. Why? I don't know. Their TVs suck, their cd players suck, their speakers suck, their recievers suck, and even the quality of their consoles suck. There is a better company in every range of Sony products that are not only cheaper but last longer and is of higher quality. I don't see why Sony is a prominent name here, but they are. Nintendo should know that cool is the way.

Like Ian mentioned, kids don't want to be labelled as kids. They want to do everything adults can. I for one loved Mortal Kombat, becuase it was bad to play, well sort of. I liked watching rated R movies, becuase it was "cooler" and more violent. In general, I liked feeling older than I was. Nintendo should realize that kids these days are getting "older", younger (if that made any sense). It's too bad but today, everyone is image concious. They want to have cool looking products, or wear cool cloths, so other people think they are cool and thus accepted. Me? I could care less...I play my cube (super monkey ball no less) in front of my friends and girlfriends and act like a child when I'm doing it. Also talking mad s**t is fun when playing SSBM against my girlfriend. Even Zelda...people are like turn if off I want to watch the game. I reply "look, you came over to my house, and right now, I'm playing Zelda." Personally, I think it's alot cooler to be yourself (ugh that sounded wierd to say). [/rant]  

[Jonnyboy117]

If DS and PSP weren't competing, the two companies wouldn't be taking potshots at the competing handheld every chance they get.  Classic example of Nintendo saying one thing and doing another.

[ProzacMessiah]

Jon, I'm not saying that much more can be done less than a month from the PSP's launch, but most of your suggestions are for Nintendo to make announcements.  Announcements about plans.  Well, talk is cheap.  It's especially cheap in an industry where announcements about everything from release dates to what products are in development are famously mercurial.  Half the problem with the DS is that it's always been more about promise than product.  

Sony, apart from a likely inventory shortage, is coming to its launch loaded for bear.  Meanwhile, the DS has half the software available after 3 months on the market that the PSP will have at launch.  Ping Pals isn't even a game, Sprung is a joke, and many others are serviceable but uninspired on a system that has claimed inspiration as its calling card.  The weakness of the lineup is betrayed by your selection of titles to "show off."  Spiderman 2 is not a showcase title; it's barely adequate, the touch screen implementation is forced.  That game will not move systems.  Pokemon Dash and Yoshi haven't yet been released in NA, so I can't comment on them.  Feel the Magic is one of the DS's strongest titles, but it still feels more like a proof of concept than a full game to me.  We'll have a few more titles before then, but it's too little too late to do much about the PSP's launch.    

This is Sony's moment in the spotlight.  A bunch of rushed announcements about media players and PDA software might build momentum, but it could just as likely make Nintendo look desperate and schizophrenic regarding the DS.  I'm starting to think that might be an accurate reflection of the situation.  There's a good chance that Nintendo hasn't released significant details about its online strategy for the DS because it doesn't really have one yet.  Nintendo has made its lack of enthusiasm for online gaming clear on many occasions.  The DS's price advantage is important, but compromised by Nintendo's own GBA SP.  I'd rather give a small child a DS than a PSP, but by the same token, I'd rather give him an $80 GBA SP than a $150, touch screen equipped DS.

When Nintendo decided to go with the DS rather than a more conventional system, like a Super GBA, it should have realized that it needed at least one 'killer app' that showed why all this new functionality was necessary.  Given that the system had revolutionary rather than evolutionary ambitions, said game should have been a pack-in, even if it boosted the MSRP a bit.  That game hasn't been released yet.  To date, Nintendo has failed to convince gamers that having two screens, a microphone, and a touch screen adds much value to gaming.  Given that the DS doesn't exist in a vacuum, it needs to convince people that those attributes are more desirable than a single large screen, analog control, and greater horsepower.  Nintendo may yet prove its case, but it hasn't yet.  Unfortunately, Nintendo's three months are up, and the time for talk has passed.  It's time to rumble now, and it's looking increasingly like Nintendo brought a knife to a gunfight.

[PaLaDiN]

"If DS and PSP weren't competing, the two companies wouldn't be taking potshots at the competing handheld every chance they get."

What? Am I missing something?

[Jonnyboy117]

Yeah.  You must have missed NOA execs joking about PSP battery life numerous times between E3 last year and the Japanese PSP launch, or Kaz Hirai calling the DS a kid system in a media/investor presentation.  Sorry, it's too late for me to dig up the exact quotes, but there are plenty of them floating around.  I wouldn't call it a "nasty" rivalry, but the systems are being set up as rivals, and not just by us media.