Author Topic: Nintendo really wasn't kidding.... (Read 17882 times)

theRPGFreak · « **on:** October 11, 2004, 08:05:40 PM »

I looked into the new issue of Game Informer the other day, and i saw the first game for the PS3 and XB2 called Elder Scrools 4. They made a big deal about the graphics, but if you ask me, they dont seem much of that big of a deal. The game looks identical to the upcoming EverQuest 2 if you ask me. So I really gotta wounder if an average gamer is going to want to spend over 300 bucks at the end of 2005 for a console that dosent show any big leaps in graphical improvments. Nintendo has been saying this from the start that graphics have hit their limit, and I think this proves them right!

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2004, 08:11:55 PM »

I don't play graphics, I play games...So I actually wouldn't care if Ninty's next system was identical to the GC in terms of processing power if they can pull through with innovative gameplay...And I think the DS is an excellent start and a nice mirror of things to come...

theRPGFreak · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2004, 08:20:40 PM »

I don't play graphics, I play games...So I actually wouldn't care if Ninty's next system was identical to the GC in terms of processing power if they can pull through with innovative gameplay...And I think the DS is an excellent start and a nice mirror of things to come...

amen to that Bill

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2004, 08:33:49 PM »

I'll drool over Becca and Jill's graphics.

And relaxingly venture thru Metroid Prime for the 5.1 audio experience.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2004, 09:04:37 PM »

"So I actually wouldn't care if Ninty's next system was identical to the GC in terms of processing power if they can pull through with innovative gameplay"

Are you kidding? With upped specs they could allow us to control more than 100 Pikmin in Pikmin 3. Improved technology allows for more than graphics. I think having more advanced AI, more objects on the screen at once with no frame rate drops, improved physics, etc. makes improved technology worthwhile. Those are all gameplay related improvements.

I wouldn't buy a console just because it was great graphics yet at the same time I wouldn't not buy a console just because it's graphics didn't have a big leap forward. It's all about what games are available. Even if graphics hit a wall (and they haven't yet) there's still places to go with gameplay and it doesn't need a new controller either. The PS3 with marginally better-than-Xbox graphics and the exact same controller can still have an innovative system seller made for it.

When Nintendo talks about how graphics have hit their limit to me it sounds like Nintendo has hit their limit. This is the company that thought that Super Mario Sunshine's models were good enough even though SSBM's Mario model looked superior. Judging by the appearance of most of their first party titles they just have very low standards of what is good enough regarding graphics. It's the same thing with sounds. Nintendo often uses the same dated cartridge era sound effects they used on the N64 for their games. They're not a company pushing the limits on technology so they can't really say we've hit a limit. THEY just don't want to go further.

Now I want to see innovative games as I'm tired of seeing the same stuff over and over again and that includes Nintendo with their endless GBA (and now DS) ports/remakes, cash-in Pokemon rehashes, and overuse of franchise characters. So the Revolution does interest me if it delivers. Most gamers don't think like me though. Most would buy a PS3 even if it just had more of the same old. In fact they would probably but it because it's more of the same. So Nintendo should be careful if they're making future plans based on what people like me think. The public is not going to get sick of repetition any time soon.

Infernal Monkey · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2004, 02:13:21 AM »

Anybody remember 'Picasso'? No of course you don't. That was apparently going to be the first PS2/Xbox/GameCube (lol Dolphin) game. Screen shots were shown in various magazines, it had average graphics and sounded like it was going to be about as exciting as getting a fork jammed in the lower intestines.

Yeah, screenshots for PS3/Xbox2 are going to look unimpressive at the moment, maybe because the consoles don't even exist. It's like when EA tried to pass off that fancy game footage as PSP graphics back at E3.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2004, 02:31:31 AM »

"Are you kidding? With upped specs they could allow us to control more than 100 Pikmin in Pikmin 3. Improved technology allows for more than graphics. I think having more advanced AI, more objects on the screen at once with no frame rate drops, improved physics, etc. makes improved technology worthwhile."

GRRRR, stop taking everything so literally! My point was that gameplay far exceeds my care for visuals...

Ms.Pikmin · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2004, 05:54:30 AM »

Ian, while I have recently agreed with you to an extend regarding Nintendo, I can't help but wonder why you seem to have so much pent up anger and hostility toward them.

While Nintendo is a large company that produces technology, the people running it are only human. Perhaps you ought to remember that and apply some of that good Christian understanding and forgiveness. They are bound to have flaws and make mistakes. But we must be patient and show we can rise above the frustration we feel when they make some of the decisions they do.

Pray for them, Ian. Pray.....

RABicle · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2004, 06:15:31 AM »

Companies are greedy and selfish and Nintendo is no exception. I say we boycott these oppressive capitalists! Materialism is WEAK. Don't think that Nintendo care about our opinions on games, they only care about money! Greedy, filthy disgusting money.

Instead of looking to God, who's like a corporation himself (doens't care about our prayers,) we should look to communism. Once the workers and the people are behind the means of production at Nintendo creativity will flourish as we will be able to make the games we want and not chase the dollar.

Jdub03 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2004, 06:47:41 AM »

---------------- are you serious???

PaLaDiN · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2004, 07:21:34 AM »

Since he's got enough disgusting money to have a disgustingly material internet connection... no, I wouldn't think so.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2004, 07:36:42 AM »

"Instead of looking to God, who's like a corporation himself (doens't care about our prayers,)"

I don't feel like commenting on relgion, but the reason many prayers aren't answered is because allowing someone to do everything for you is a sign of weakness...Something I thought you disliked, correct? =)

RABicle · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2004, 07:47:05 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Jdub03
---------------- are you serious???

Yes

And listen up Paladin and Bill. Revealing people to be hypocrits, through their contradicting actions and beliefs is possibly the lowest and weakest act possible. You two make me sick! Never reply to this thread again!

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2004, 07:49:52 AM »

It's all about learning from your mistakes! =D

RABicle · « **Reply #14 on:** October 12, 2004, 08:11:33 AM »

Allright now to actually address the original topic, we've gone offrails again.

I think Nintendo are right about graphics reaching their limit, sort of. Technology can and will go infinately further in video games, however I doubt the actual visual quality of our games will go too much higher simply becuase it won't be economically viable for game companies to keep up with the technology. The amount of time that is spent on making all these curvey objects and tectures is becoming too long already and it will get to the point where they can't be bothered making it any better. Soon developers will relsies that making games look better than DOOM3 (the current benchmark) provides no extra atmosphere and even though they could make it lok better they will wisen up and spend the better technology on cooler AI and the like.

But I'm relying on humans to show intelligence to accomplish this, which isn't going to happen.

PaLaDiN · « **Reply #15 on:** October 12, 2004, 08:16:07 AM »

Graphical innovation will stop once designers realize the average consumer can't tell the difference.

Hasn't happened yet. They're still caught up in an imaginary pissing contest.

Syl · « **Reply #16 on:** October 12, 2004, 12:23:36 PM »

My main beef is that better graphics just take lots more time (and money). Time that could be better spent into gameplay or getting the game out.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #17 on:** October 12, 2004, 12:59:46 PM »

BioZomboid 4's enemy AI lovingly adds to its atmosphere.

Communist Game Development GO!

MARIO IS COMMUNIST, A MODERN EMBODIMENT OF STALIN FED TO OUR FUTURE, OUR CHILDREN.

Proof of Mario's link to Communism

Mario · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2004, 05:07:25 PM »

Well i disagree with some things in this thread, for example developers spending more time making higher quality objects. When they create the objects in the first place, they are completely round, and then they dumb it down to fit inside the hardware limitations that they must overcome, so development for systems with better graphics and hardware could be easier for developers in some ways, beacuse they woudlnt have to tone anything down. I don't know enough about anything else to say that overall its easier for developers though.

mantidor · « **Reply #19 on:** October 12, 2004, 09:37:24 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Graphical innovation will stop once designers realize the average consumer can't tell the difference.

Hasn't happened yet. They're still caught up in an imaginary pissing contest.

I think its already starting to happen, as I said in other thread, for my dad mario 64 its exactly the same as mario sunshine and mario in ssbm, ok, its my dad... then how about my cousin?, she only spotted better graphics in sunshine until she payed close attention to the water, which looks really great in this game, and she is not that ignorant about "polygon counts" as obviously my dad is. and for example I cant tell the difference between mario in sunshine and in ssbm. Nintendo is definately right about it, the graphics have started to reach their peak.

I have a question though, have Nintendo really said the wont be upgrading specs? or they just mentioned the wont focus on graphics? I think they never said "the revolution will use cube hardware with a new thing we have yet to announce!!!"...

and better specs arent needed for better AI, what its needed is better programmers and thus better developers, sadly most developers go in a similar path that M$ takes when making their OS's "instead of making an efficient and well thought software, lets just make a crappy OS that misuses resources, thus forcing consumers to upgrade their hardware if they want to use windows XP!!! like if we care, we have a monopoly after all"

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2004, 03:18:03 AM »

No, Ninty has said that they will keep with technology jumps, but that isn't what they are going to be focused on like certain other companies...

couchmonkey · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2004, 08:27:09 AM »

I'm quite sure the Revolution's processor is being developed by IBM, and in fact, I even recall rumours that it will be quite similar to Xbox2/Xenon. Whether or not you believe that last bit, there is no point in getting a new processor if Nintendo isn't planning on either:

A) Doing something so revolutionary that it requires a new processor (OMH, I CAN CONTROL TEH GAMEZ WITH MY BRANE POWER!!!)

B) Keeping up with technological jumps

Since Bill is right that Nintendo has said it will keep up with technology, I think B is much more likely.

I personally believe graphics are reaching a stand-still too. I'm pretty surprised that someone would consider Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine graphically interchangable, but I still agree that the graphical improvements between this generation and next are going to be mostly lost on the casual observer.

Syl · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2004, 01:11:20 PM »

next generation machines:

Processer: Nintndo + microsoft = Being devoloped by IBM, Sony = being co devoloped by IBM.
Graphics Engine: Nintendo+microsoft = being devoloped by ATI, Sony = I really have no clue.

ATI/IBM are the clear winners of next generation hardware.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2004, 01:24:07 PM »

"Processer: Nintndo + microsoft = Being devoloped by IBM, Sony = being co devoloped by IBM.
Graphics Engine: Nintendo+microsoft = being devoloped by ATI, Sony = being devoloped by Sony."

Due to the rumoured similarities of Nintendo's and Microsoft's next machines I wonder if we'll see a common hack where people get one machine to play the other's games. In the short term that could potentially help both companies since their games would unofficially sell to two userbases and thus sell more games. Though if it became a really common hack you might start to see third parties focusing on one over the other since they know that the game will sell to both userbases regardless of which console it's on. This would deny one company of third party licencing fees. Still it's a neat possibility.

Deguello · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 2004, 11:43:23 PM »

The way people are talking about Nintendo's stance on technology sort of sets up a false dichotomy. It's like they think because Nintendo is not 100% totally concerned about and willing to relinquish all of their money for this pursuit of technological advances, they obviously must not give a damn about it.

Control is the next innovation. Until I have a controller in my hands, I'm watching a movie.

News:

Author Topic: Nintendo really wasn't kidding.... (Read 17882 times)