Author Topic: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?  (Read 16215 times)

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Offline notic

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What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« on: September 15, 2004, 04:13:48 PM »
For me it's Kid Icarus.
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Offline iamradioactive

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2004, 04:49:18 PM »
Personally, I'd like to see some Pacman games like there was on the Super Nintendo. I always liked those.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2004, 05:58:52 PM »
None.  That's right.  They should bring back NONE of their old franchises and I think they should abandon some of their lesser current ones.  Well at least for the foreseeable future.  Nintendo has depended WAY too much on their franchises this last gen.  They've become the rehash machines they used to be unfairly criticized as.

This gen Nintendo did two things I thought they would never do:

1. They released redundant sequels that failed to innovate or significantly add to the formula.
2. They released poor-to-average games that relied on an existing franchise to push an overwise unrelated game.

Mario Golf, 1080 Avalanche, Mario Party 4 & 5 and the upcoming Mario Tennis (judging by previews) fall into the first category.  On the GBA I would put F-Zero GP Legend, Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green and even Metroid Zero Mission in this category.  Now these are still good games but they didn't NEED to be released.  In their heyday Nintendo only released games that from an artistic standpoint had to exist.  They were constantly making completely new properties and their sequels were either huge evolutionary steps or completely original titles (Yoshi's Island).  Except for maybe DKC3 it's pretty hard to think of an unnecessary SNES first party game.

Star Fox Adventures, Wario World, and all of the Cube Pokemon games fall into the second category.  Those games are not nearly up to Nintendo's standards.  Wario World featured virtually no elements of what made the GB Wario games fun.  It seemed like an unrelated game with Wario thrown in for brand recognition.  The Pokemon games on the Cube are all crap.  Channel is barely even a game and Coloseum is a half-assed attempt at a 3D RPG with features from Stadium removed and put into Box.  And Star Fox Adventures had Star Fox shoehorned into an original franchise.  Sure the game probably would have been the lame collectathon no matter what but Nintendo forced an unrelated franchise into it to drive sales.  That's unforgivable.  They seem to be doing the same thing with the Cube Advance Wars which is not made by IS and seems to be completely unrelated to the GBA games.  You could even consider FF: CC which they had made through a major deal with Square Enix as an unrelated game with "Final Fantasy" put in the title to drive sales.

Plus Nintendo in general has just released a lot of sequels.  The Cube will have three Zelda games which is more than any other Nintendo console.  And the amount of Metroid titles has DOUBLED since Metroid Prime came out and has two more games announced and on the way.  Meanwhile Nintendo has released by my count only three original franchises on the Cube: Animal Crossing, Pikmin, and Eternal Darkness.  AC actually is a port of an N64 game so in reality that's only TWO original Cube franchises released thus far (though Geist will be another one).

I want Nintendo to only concentrate on the BIG franchise titles like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid for a while and bust out some new content in place of yet another Mario Golf.  They're getting stale and I'm getting tired of playing the same franchises over and over again.

Offline PaLaDiN

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2004, 06:15:03 PM »
Once Mario Tennis, Metroid Prime 2 and Zelda GC 3 come out, I don't care if Nintendo doesn't bring back any more franchises.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2004, 06:19:53 PM »
I'm on PalaDiN's bandwagon.

Love teh tennIs

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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2004, 06:21:45 PM »
"Mario Tennis (judging by previews) fall into the first category"

Well it's kind of hard to beat perfection...
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Offline MaleficentOgre

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2004, 07:29:02 PM »
Wait, let me get this straight, you're saying if its not zelda mario or metroid that nintendo shouldn't make the game.  Just ignore the nine billion characters it has stored away and make new ones.  Forget how good the games on these characters can be.  I bet you're the same person that condemned metroid prime before it came out crying that metroid can't be 3D that's blasphemous.  I bet you hate Mario Sunshine because the game isn't perfect in every way, because flud or whatever its name was shouldn't be allowed in any game ever.  I guess you want smash brothers to be dealt away because it is no longer a fresh innovative game.  I beleive that you wouldn't like to see any more mario kart games because koopas should be jumped on and not driving karts.  What happens if Namco gets its act together and turns Armada into a space shooting wet dream the likes of which not seen since rogue leader, you wouldn't want to play it.  I guess that you really wouldn't want to play animal crossing two.
I guess you don't want to see games like donkey kong jungle beat because its not one of nintendo's three major franchises.  Where do you get off saying that games shouldn't be made because they're not popular.  As far as all the rehashes goes, they are all brilliant games.  Zero mission is more than any port I've seen, as well as Twin Snakes.  These are games that, as odd as it seems, many people haven't palyed and otherwise wouldn't have played, and the reimagining of them makes it worth a buy.
You know what, no game needs to be released.   Samus, Mario, and Link can all go the way of the dinosaur and the videogame world would live on.  Sure it would hurt a lot, but it wouldn't die.  You may think that mario zelda and metroid are the games that drive nintendo, but they're not.  Its the wario ware, and the mario golf/kart/tennis/shuffleboard for all I care.  Its the Donkey Kongas and the F-zeros.  Nintendo is great not because of it only having three franchises to rely on, its great because it can take obscure franchises and turn them into great games that no one would ever think to exist.  Sure mario party has gotten stale, but it has two new games coming out that'll turn the series in a new direction.  Mario golf advance is the best golf game of the year. Kujuu is new to the "lets make a good game" scene, give them time, nintendo should be able to drive these guys in the right direction.  Besides as you say it Advance wars is better off this way, so it won't get stale on the GBA.  As far as the multiplying of metroid tittles have you seen a bad one yet? no, no you haven't because they're all great games.  
Know what, stop buying games.   From now on only buy origional games, games that haven't been thought of yet and don't have any tithes to any older game ever created.  No tennis games, that ties into pong.  No sports games period they're all the same.  No First person shooterse, they can all be traced back to goldeneye as far as consoles go.  No 2D fighting games, just capcom snk and sammy making those, can't be any good they're not origional.  Smash brothers'll be sequel as well.  No 3D fighting games, Sould Calibur three DOA ultimate Virtua fighter five, tekken five.   No real time strategy games, all command and conquer.  No shootemups, all galaga. No action adventure games, all zelda.  No survival horror, all silent hill and resident evil clones.  No light gun games, all copies of house of the dead and time crisis.  No racing games, all have something to do with need for speed.  No flying games, all revolve around flight simulators.  No RPG's that's all final fantasy. No platformers, all mario.  No party games, all mario.  No kart racers, all mario.  No mascot fighter, all mario.  No, wait I'm running out of games.  okay rhythm games are all DDR.  No liscensed games, All X-men (the old arcade game).  Noadventure games, all myst.  Every spy game of the last three years is a splinter cell clone, and squad based games are all based on tom clancy novels.  James bond made all the movie games good.  
You get what I'm saying I could go on for a little longer but all games are rehashes of older games.  Jungle beat is the most origional game around, that and lifeline *shudder* but because Jungle beat isn't traditionaly DK swinging around you won't like it.  I guess you want mario to turn into megaman, whomst I love, but doesn't know when to go onto something new.  Command mission is a great something new for him by the way.  JI think your opinion has value.  I just cannot agree with you. Just go away from the game world and start reading dime novels. because that's the only way you'll find true happiness.

Offline Chongman

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2004, 07:29:06 PM »

that's right.

and Ian Sane, I understand where you're coming from perfectly, but from being criticized that they don't bring out games fast enough to bringing out too rehashes I think ninty is a bit limited in what they can do. I totally agree with you 100%, they need more original titles (and they're coming). The sequals, most of them anyhow, weren't by any means bad just slight rehashes. Fun, great games, but still same same. The way I look at it though, they're still bringing innovation where they needed, and they haven't slacked off on the number either. Just because there's so many other games surrounding them doesn't mean ninty still doesn't innovate.

And btw, all three zelda games on the cube are completely different from each other and all other past iterations. At least in my opinion (though yeah, i can't judge the third one YET...)
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Offline Deguello

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2004, 07:37:30 PM »
"On the GBA I would put F-Zero GP Legend, Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green and even Metroid Zero Mission in this category. Now these are still good games but they didn't NEED to be released."

In F-Zero's and Metroid's case, Deg says they need to be released.

"You could even consider FF: CC which they had made through a major deal with Square Enix as an unrelated game with "Final Fantasy" put in the title to drive sales."

It's not like Square Enix didn't shoehorn an unrelated game into Final Fantasy before.  That would be...  Ahem...

Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy Adventure
Final Fantasy Legend (called something different in Japan)

"Wario World featured virtually no elements of what made the GB Wario games fun."

And F-Zero GX didn't feature Mode 7 Like F-Zero Maximum Velocity did.  What's your point?

Edit:  And you are right, the Cube has the most Zelda games.  With the GB Player and that promo disc...  Hell you can play ALL of them on the GC.  And speaking of the GB Player, the GBA has more Zelda games than the rest of Nintendo's systems.

Also, again Custom Robo is being treated as if it does not exist.  Maybe next time nintendo will release a popular unknown franchise, eh?
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Offline Urkel

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2004, 08:20:34 PM »
I'm reminded of an argument I had way back in junior high during the N64/PSX days. The PSX had come out not too long ago, and the N64 launch was nearly a year away. One kid I knew owned a Playstation, and we were arguing over which system was better.

His reasoning was --and I swear I'm not making this up-- "Sure, all the Playstation games suck, but at least it's not the same old stuff like Mario and Zelda."

I don't believe I had any response to that.

Anyway, I understand Ian not wanting so many sequels. However, I believe it's a misconception that Nintendo is becoming in any way less innovative.

What made Mario 64 so innovative was that it was the first 3D game to not suck. It showed everybody else how 3D games are supposed to be done. Mario Sunshine did not need to deviate significantly from the Mario 64 formula, seeing as how many considered Mario 64 to be the greatest game of all time. However, since it didn't significantly change from Mario 64, Sunshine got criticized by many as being an unimaginative sequel. My point is, Mario 64 didn't revolutionize the game industry because Nintendo all of a sudden decided to be innovative, Mario 64 revolutionized the industry simply because it happened to be first. The first non-sucking 3D game, that is.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... there's less out there to innovate. It's hard to envision a genre of game that hasn't been done already. At least, on the current consoles.

The two screens and touchscreen on DS are already providing completely original content. That's why I hope the Revolution truly is revolutionary, and will allow for games never before possible.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2004, 08:26:42 PM »
Ogre: Ian complained about overuse of franchises, not about genres. I see no freaking reason why Mario Tennis or Mario Golf need to be Mario games and not have their own franchises or at least characters. All of your claims that "Genre X is just a rehash of Game Y" are pointless because Ian never said they shouldn't create games in existing genres, just that they shouldn't throw in their old characters, especially when there's no real reason they're in there. For example, why is Wario Ware a Wario game? It has no reason to include Wario and except for Wario himself all characters are new. Why couldn't Nintendo create a new main character as well? Was it because they thought "Hey, if it's got Wario in it it'll sell twice as much"? There are tons of examples where Nintendo just added a franchise name to games that by themselves have zero to do with the franchise and could have been their own franchise.

Offline Deguello

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2004, 08:56:55 PM »
SPEAKING OF completely unrelated games with a franchise shoved into it...  How's that hypothetical Zelda RPG coming along, Ian?  
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Offline Dasmos

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2004, 01:17:59 AM »
well i'd like to see Earthbound make a return.
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Offline Gremio

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2004, 03:01:31 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Dasmos
well i'd like to see Earthbound make a return.
On the GCN, yes, that's what I'd like to see. I'd even be more than happy with the GBA versions coming to the US.

Only old Nintendo franchises I really care to see brought back to life are Kid Icarus and StarTropics. And while we're on the topic of old franchies, I say Enix should bring back Actraiser.


Offline MaleficentOgre

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2004, 04:05:04 AM »
Everyone knows that good origional games don't sell on gamecube.  For some strange reason gamecube owners don't take a chance on new franchises.  If you slap a mascot on game then the sales go up a whole bunch.

Offline Flames_of_chaos

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2004, 04:43:34 AM »
well Ogre I assume that you assumed that Pikmin and Animal Crossing sold like crap then? Well on this issue I find that the Gamecube games I have, have way much better replay value versus the PS2 games I own.  Do I want innovation? Yes. But  I'd rather have a sequel to a game rather than a sucky game with innovative features.  
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Offline notic

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2004, 05:36:49 AM »
Earthbound would be nice.  
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2004, 07:25:50 AM »
"SPEAKING OF completely unrelated games with a franchise shoved into it... How's that hypothetical Zelda RPG coming along, Ian?"

Well I don't think a Zelda RPG would be totally unrelated to the regular Zelda games.  I think there's enough simularities that like Four Swords Adventure it would have enough in common with the normal Zelda games to not look like a completely different game with a popular character shoe-horned in.  Other people may think differently.  My concern is more with overusing their franchises and redundant cookie cutter sequels.

Bill, perhaps unintentionally, summed up my point with "Well it's kind of hard to beat perfection..."  If a game just works so well and there's no concievable way to significantly improve it and no directions to branch off in that would work then there's no need to make a sequel.  Mario Tennis just f*cking nailed it on the first try.  Super Smash Bros. Melee is so insanely awesome that I can't imagine another sequel unless it's online.  Notice how Nintendo has not made a traditional Mario sidescroller since Super Mario World?  Of course there's Yoshi's Island but that's very unique.  Super Mario World is so perfect they probably can't think of way to continue that formula which is why Yoshi's Island and the 3D Mario games are so different.

Every game series at some point hits a creative wall where the current formula can't be improved on enough to make it fresh and it has to either branch off in a new direction, stop, or become a cookie cutter rehash.  Look at Capcom's properties for tons of examples of this.  Capcom almost always continues on with their franchises after they have hit the wall and it kills the game's selling power and popularity.  Nintendo was always against this idea during their heyday and now they seem to be heading in that direction which I don't want to see.  So I want them to cut back on the sequels and start making some brand new properties.

Offline couchmonkey

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2004, 08:10:15 AM »
Ironically, I consider Super Mario World to be a cut-and-paste sequel to Super Mario Bros. 3.  I think Nintendo should continue to put out games in popular franchises for the simple reason that they sell, and they help to pad out the release lists.  But I would like to see the company consider two things:

1. Don't make a sequel without improving on the first.  That doesn't even have to mean innovation, it just means making a better game.  Super Smash Bros. Melee is a good example of this, the game is basically a super-deluxe version of the original.  If as many new options, levels, and extras had gone into the GC incarnations of Wave Race, 1080 and Mario Kart, I think it would have made those games a lot better.  The Mario Party series breaks this "rule" a lot.

2. Quit adding new Mario spin-offs.  There are way too many of them, and it's getting worse.  Why not create some "all-franchise" spin-offs, if they're necessary?  I understand the appeal of putting popular characters into a new game: there's no reason to put Mario in a golf game, but without him, Mario Golf would probably have sold about 20,000 copies, given the Cube's sports-hating fanbase.  Having said that, I'm sure a lot of consumers are getting the wrong impression that Mario is the only thing Nintendo has going for it, so ease up on the new Mario products.

Otherwise, I think these sequels, original or not, are important for selling consoles and for ensuring there is a good selection of games on the console.  Of course, I want to see Nintendo making original games too, but I see nothing wrong with having a mix of both.

I think a Kid Icarus game in 3D would be very interesting.  Heck, for that matter, I bet they could make a vastly improved 2D version.  I think Punch-Out and Pilotwings could both benefit from sequels too....but Nintendo shouldn't force itself to make those games, it should only make them if someone has a great idea for them.
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Offline Chongman

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2004, 03:07:34 PM »

I wait patienly for a punch-out sequal...and every day I die a little more as a result...

That would be a series that could easily be improved upon, and it's so amazing already...gah! WHY DO YOU TORMENT ME SO!! *goes off in the corner and cries*
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2004, 03:31:06 PM »
A-ha.  The textual majority has deemed this thread as the latest "things Nintendo is doing wrong" thread.  Reggie consume threads.
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Offline Skyman_Welks

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2004, 12:09:25 PM »
Kid Icarus (!!!!!!!!111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111!!!!111111)
StarTropics
Earthbound

I suppose those are the only ones I would like to see make a comeback.
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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2004, 09:54:57 PM »
Personaly I would like to see a new game in the BattleClash series. That is never going to happen though, it didn't get as much as a tropie in SSBM.

I'm not even going to touch the whole sub-topic of "Nintendo releases to many/not enough rehashes."
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Offline Kaboth

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RE:What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2004, 01:48:22 PM »
I wanna see a 2D Donkey Kong Country 4 more than anything else but perhaps Nintendo doesn't have the rights to using Country in the same sentence as Donkey Kong since Rare left.  

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: What old franchises should Nintendo bring back?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2004, 02:16:14 PM »
Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat...
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