Topic: To DVD or not to DVD

[bmfrosty]

This topic has come up in a few threads lately.  I thought I'd throw a little bit more information out.  Both the XBOX2 and the PS3 will support DVD.  That won't be a selling point anymore.  Both the XBOX2 and the PS3 will support a 3rd (1st is laserdisc, 2nd is DVD) generation optical video format.  Unfortunately there will be two different formats.  This will be a big selling point.  There is a consortium of companies that includes Sony that is pushing the Blu-Ray standard.  There is a consortium of companies that includes Microsoft that is pushing the HD-DVD standard.  Both will be 120mm discs.  Both will support the same audio and video codecs (mpeg-2, mpeg-4, and WM9).  The Blu-ray will be cartridge based (to prevent scratches) while the HD-DVD will be naked in order to make production cheaper and to make it easier to convert DVD presses to the new standard.  The XBOX2 will have a HD-DVD player built in and the PS3 will use Blu-Ray discs.  There is no clear choice for nintendo as either choice would support one of their competitors.  Given Nintendo's stances on issues like this in the past, they will likely choose neither.

On the other hand, it has been speculated that the recent addition of mpeg-4 and WM9 into the Blu-Ray standard is an attempt by the Blu-Ray consortium to bring Microsoft and the MPEG forum into their camp, and therefore weaken the position of the HD-DVD consortium to the point where they give up.  In this case both the XBOX2 and the PS3 will include playback for the same 3rd Generation video standard and it would become imperitive that Nintendo includes support for that standard if they want to stay in the game.

-bmfrosty

[KDR_11k]

More codecs and formats means more license fees, I'm sure by now Nintendo can save ~50 USD per system by not implementing playback capabilities. I don't want my console to do that playback, my PC is good enough for doing that and I don't want to pay for unnecessary features (yes, the chip might cost a few cents to make, but the whole patent stuff means they'd have to pay lots of money to other companies, including Microsoft). It's likely that N will use a Bluray derivative since their partner for the disk stuff, Panasonic, can use them, but it'll be severely altered to both prevent piracy and save money on licenses.

[MaleficentOgre]

Nintendo should ley panasonic design the revolution.  I beleive my Q is the prettiest console on the market.  The revolution should also "revolutionize" the console market and be region free right out of the box.

[bmfrosty]

I'm pretty sure the correct answer is to include whatever hardware is required, and then sell it as an aftermarket upgrade as Microsoft did with it's DVD remote.  That way the licencing fees can be sold as an extra aftermarket expense for those who need the functionality.

[KDR_11k]

And the device yould be easily modded to run burned games. I bet that's what Nintendo REALLY doesn't like about the prospect of standardized media.

[Nephilim]

DVD-RAM sounds like a good idea
Nintendo should use as much panasonic technology as they can

[PugGTI]

Blue-Ray all the way! I don't think they will go with optical RAM, Flash memory is getting much higher in density and cheaper also. So i think they will go with memory cards. Plus they can make more money fom selling memory cards that way...

[Draygaia]

I really don't care what Nintendo uses just as long as it has a little more than enough for most developers to be happy with.  It matters more for Sony and MS since they will both be having machines that play movies on these new software formats.  It matters more because if Blu-Ray wins everybody at first will have to buy a PS3 to watch Blu-Ray movies and then you combine that with the huge amount of people who own a PS2 and its the same with HD-DVD for Xbox2.

Also could someone tell me if Blu-Ray movies could work on my DVD player?  DVDs are still recent to me and now they become old like VHS already?

[KDR_11k]

I think BRD movies won't take off soon. The format is redundant in that arena. What does it deliver to John Average Consumer that DVD doesn't? Not enough to warrant purchasing new hardware and new movies. They just hope for another format migration like tape->CD and VHS->DVD, that way people buy their media again and the sales inflate. Once the migration is complete, the sales fall back to normal levels, which isn't acceptable from the view of the publishers. The RIAA complains about falling profits, but that's most likely because people have completed their tape/LP->CD migration (and because less CDs get released). With BRD there's no real incentive to upgrade your collection from DVD to BRD and people won't rush to BRD. I know, HDTV advocates will claim different, but there's really not going to be a big shift in quality between DVD and BRD, especially since many people still use standard TVs.

[ThePerm]

I think Nintendo should do what they did last time...they should take blue ray technology and create their own standard proprietary media...of course keeping it backward compatable at the same time. Or let me put it this way Nintendo and Matsushita took dvd/cd optical technology and created their own format. They could do the same with whatever was learned between the development of blue ray and hd-dvd..but however i remember these things were beign developed even before dolphin. Im hoping Revolution has a competatively sized format because GCN was often times screwed on textures, fmv, and sound. Developers werent willing to invest their time in compression technology asnd well it just made the system look inferior in ways.

[Draygaia]

The reason to get BRD over DVD is the same as getting an HDTV, Plasma, or LCD TV over the regular TV.  I don't know what the different between the three TVs are but watching the Jay Leno show on one of them looks more fantastic than The Lord of the Rings DVD I think.  The only disadvantage I see with the BRD is cost.  HD-DVD already already makes it possible to take advantage of the three TVs but thats it.  I can't think of any disadvantage other than a TV being made that the HD-DVD won't be able to take advantage of or the BRD kicking its ass.

It would be cool if Nintendo creates a Cartridge that holds a load that developers will be more than happy of.  That would be a Revolution.

[bmfrosty]

Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
I think Nintendo should do what they did last time...they should take blue ray technology and create their own standard proprietary media...of course keeping it backward compatable at the same time. Or let me put it this way Nintendo and Matsushita took dvd/cd optical technology and created their own format. They could do the same with whatever was learned between the development of blue ray and hd-dvd..but however i remember these things were beign developed even before dolphin. Im hoping Revolution has a competatively sized format because GCN was often times screwed on textures, fmv, and sound. Developers werent willing to invest their time in compression technology asnd well it just made the system look inferior in ways.

I've been thinking about this as well.  If you look at the blu-ray cartridges, you'll notice that they have ample surface area that isn't used by the disc itself.  Part of that could be used as an interface for an IC.  There are two great uses for this.  Flash memory for game saves is the first that comes to mind.  Second would be the addition of a small hardware codec.  Use it for processing hashes unique for each game.  This, if implemented properly, would give the Nintendo the encrpytion and copy protection they need.

[KDR_11k]

They would make nonstandard media, anyway. And I prefer my saves on a memcard, though I'd prefer larger memcards. Memcards are personal items, you can give a game to a friend and be sure your saves aren't corrupted, you can have different cards for different people, etc.

[bmfrosty]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
They would make nonstandard media, anyway. And I prefer my saves on a memcard, though I'd prefer larger memcards. Memcards are personal items, you can give a game to a friend and be sure your saves aren't corrupted, you can have different cards for different people, etc.

There's no reason not to do both.  Still do the memory card thing, but make the cartridge memory card #3.  And yes it would be non-standard, but keep it close enough that BRD and DVD playback could be acomplished.  

[KDR_11k]

And demand 50$ extra just because those features are  in there? No, thanks.

[Draygaia]

Or we can wait until we see what technology can do.

I don't remember the last time I brought over a harddrive to a friends house just to play a PC game.  Hence why online can be important.  Although a console is different giving the three options to save a game would really be nice.

harddrive - it could be removable if someone finds a way to attack it or you don't want to get rid of data.
mem card - only for the purpose of going to a friend's house and hanging out with him to play games
disc cartridge - just brings back the ease of saving a game

Also why have DVD playback?  You already have BRD.  You might as well add VHS if you plan to add DVD playback.

[Golden Maven]

You guys think we might see cartridges make a come back? Either way, I don't really mind. As long as loading times are nonexistent or at least kept to a minimum, I'm happy. And media space isn't an issue for me, what I care about is the gameplay. I don't care about rubbish like FMV, voice acting, licensed music, etc. I'm quite happy with the Gamecube's mini-DVDs.

As for memory cards, I don't really like them. For me, it's just something I have to buy seperately and then keep an eye on the remaining space, so I just find them annoying. Besides, they never leave my house so they offer no advantages for me. I prefered the days where the game would just save in it's own cartridge. I don't like dealing with memory cards.

By the way, screw DVD playback. If you want a DVD player, just get one, they're cheap. I don't want Nintendo to increase the console's price because they decided to include DVD playback, which I would never use anyway. I wouldn't want to put any more strain on my console than I have to. Look at the PS2, you got plently of people who have lasers dying on them. I just use my consoles for gaming, nothing else, and that's why they stay in good shape.

[MaleficentOgre]

the next console needs dvd playback.  I don't care if the price goes up, it needs to have dvd playback.  I personally think that they should let panasonic design the console and it should include blu-ray technology.  Nintendo could make a proprietary blu-ray disc for themselves that would prevent piracy.  Even though blu ray won't be able to be pirated for at least three years it could help nintendo keep zelda from going the way of halo.  now this is out there and kind of silly but, also think thay they should release add ons for around 25-40 bucks that would alow the system to play NES SNES and N64 games, as well as have a slot for GB GBC and GBA games.  That would be awesome, and it would bring in some nostalgic gamers.  O and it needs a hard drive.  The Xbox has spoiled me sooo much.  Memory cards are the work of satan. especially nintendo's.

[KDR_11k]

Problem is, BRD requires a different laser wavelength than DVD. You'd need two lasers in there to read both. I'd say BRD standard support should be in but inside a sandbox that prevents hackers from using this to feed the Rev burned copies. Games should use a modified format, as always.

[Procoprio]

This may be a little off topic but I think the fact that Nintendo has stayed away from standard DVD format in the Cube has really save their butts from piracy. Im afraid they might have followed in the footsteps of the Dreamcast if they didnt. And hopefully they wont use the standard DVD format or size in Revolution.

[MaleficentOgre]

I think they should do what the panasonic does next generation.  Use their own proprietary disc and have a DVD/blu-ray player in the machine.  

[redding]

i personally reckon that nintendo, if they truly mean  it when they say they dont want to compete with the xb2 and ps3, should instead of following both those systems by using some sort of disc, i say they should have their games on vhs, or even better betamax