Topic: They should make a Zelda RPG.

[Ian Sane]

"I don't see the difference between what Zelda already IS and what you propose for the RPG Zelda, except for 'menu fighting, a party, stats and exp.'"

Well realistically there isn't much a difference since Zelda traditionally has a lot of RPG elements to begin with.  I just like the idea because it changes up the formula a little bit.  It's like Tactics Ogre compared to Ogre Battle in that it's a different approach but ultimately plays very similarly.  If you completely hate RPGs well then obviously you're not going to like a Zelda RPG.

"One advantage the Mario RPG games have over other RPGs is that their overworlds are something you actually PLAY."

Well I didn't say you couldn't play in this one.  By overworld map I mean that instead of one huge world it would be like Skies of Arcadia in that it had large full 3D areas seperated by a map.  That way you can create a much larger world and travel beyond Hyrule (compare the size of Zelda II's world to the original's).

I find it very odd that no one has a problem with Mario RPGs when the Mario series has less in common with RPGs than Zelda does.  Zelda has tons in common with RPGs so it seems like an even better fit.

[Deguello]

Or on the other hand the Novelty of the Mario RPG series is that much more attractive BECAUSE Mario had pretty much
nothing to do with RPGs.  Zelda is about as close as you can get without making it turn-based.  So the draw and the kicker and the coolness of the Mario RPG set is "Wow let's see how Mario tries on an RPG world" and you have genres to clash and gameplay designs to meld.  Whereas a Zelda RPG would possibly just entail exactly what Link does all the time, but in a menu.  Which, at least to me, seems pretty ho-hum.

[Ian Sane]

"Or on the other hand the Novelty of the Mario RPG series is that much more attractive BECAUSE Mario had pretty much
nothing to do with RPGs."

Fair enough.  Doesn't bother me personally but I can see your point.

Now let's get to work on a Wave Race RPG.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Wave Race RPG?  One without cheating AI?  That'd be nice -nya.

[Guitar Smasher]

Quote
Originally posted by: MaleficentOgre
Link doesn't need to talk.  If Link talked he'd lose a lot of his charm, people have in their mind what link sounds like.  We don't want to ruin that.

I figured I'd point out that Link has never in his entire history had dialogue.  So forget Link talking, imagine how absurd Link saying something (through text) would be!  That's what eerks me when people complain that Link doesn't have voicing.  What's wrong with that?  It's not like you have to resort to reading, even though it'd do some of you good.  

And can you even imagine an FMV of Link?  That just sounds wrong to me.  Although I suppose it could be done correctly, I'm still a little worried.  But forget this stuff, I think Ian's got a winning idea.  It sounds actually fun, and really joins the Zelda theme and the RPG genre together.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Link said his name once in Ocarina of Time -nya.

[Ian Sane]

"And can you even imagine an FMV of Link?"

Yes.  There was one in Super Smash Bros Melee and another in Soul Calibur II.  Both of them rocked.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Fantom 4th page, BANZAI !!! -nya

[MaleficentOgre]

The problem with a zelda rpg would be finding a party that doesn't suck.  I don't want to play as zelda and a gang of other random characters.  Let me be link, let me hack, slash, move blocks and light tourches.  The only way I would play a zelda RPG is if they went the direction of tales and made it an actio RPG.  As long as the overworld was better than it is in symphonia it will be a good game.  I just don't want what happens to link to be up to chance.  I play though zelda games a lot and go hours without getting touched, its hard to go through an rpg and not get hurt, I don't want link to be hurt.

[KDR_11k]

An RPG is a game where you create and play an evolving character. That games like Final Fantasy fall outside of this definition doesn't bother me.

Ogre: As evidenced in Al Qadim, an RPG doesn't need a party. It could be just Link alone. Since Link is pretty much a blank canvas character, adding a character creation system would be possible (i.e. you don't start out with "Link the swordsman", but can choose your skills yourself and choose the pathz you're going to take)

[Draygaia]

He doesn't have to be the JPN style of RPGs since they are well pretty old.  They could go with the Tales idea or the D20/D&D RPG idea.

Link fits pretty well in that kind of RPG.  Its like direct/indirect control.  You're not so much going to worry about getting your finger movements right to get something accomplished but then you won't just think the whole thing and then watch what happens after.

[nemo_83]

The number one reason Nintendo should make a Zelda rpg is because the topic will never go away, especially if they actually make one.  Its like how for years Zelda fanatics like myself pressured nintendo to make a Zelda allstars.  It was an undeniable hit.  It is funny that the people who buy these anthology type games allready own them on the old systems.  

But as for a Zelda RPG; it could become one of the best selling Zeldas ever.  Actually its not a matter of making an RPG Zelda as much as it is finding that balance between Zelda and RPGs that feels like a comfortable evolution in the series.  I mean the last time we got any real advancement in Zelda was Oot and MM time systems.  I see Zeldas in the future having seasons as a standard.  This is something that does not occur yet in our 3d Zeldas.  

The purpose of the 3d graphics in the console games is to present with polygons the level and world layout in 3d without interfering in the oldschool game mechanics of being able to see in every direction of the character with a 3/4 view.  The reason for using 3d instead of just keeping them 2d is because of how flexible 3d is in comparison.  With 2d you are not going to be able to present a world where you can change the camera for example or have snow come to rest and collect on a house top.  The purpose of 3d is not to simulate reality to its finest detail.  I like how they are exentuating the new Zelda's skies so much for example.  The toon shading engine in the new realistic Zelda allows for some spectacular color and atmospheric effects.  I hope that in future Zeldas despite whether they decide to use realistic style or not that they will persue lighting more.  Fable on the other hand looks rather bland despite its beautiful graphics.  It looks like a pretty videogame while Zelda just looks pretty period.  I guess I'm trying to say that despite all of the little details in Fable it looks and moves like a video game.  Zelda just seems more real even though it is still using more supper deformed characters.  

Despite whether the next next Zelda has supper deformed characters or not, or if it is realistic or cartoon; the next next Zelda has to make killing things more realistic.  Ever since we got to 3d games like Soul Calibur and Zelda have stayed away from bring the character damage into reality.  Instead we get sparks and flashes.  I know that is not what happens when you swing to chop something's head off.  I think that Zelda needs blood.  The blood and realistic character models would contrast really well with the whole cartoon theme.  Japanimation proved a long time ago that mature content can sell just as well if not better in cartoon presentation.

As for the play mechanics of the next next Zelda and how to make it more of a RPG I would start by having the game automaticly record and develop the actions that you repeat over and over again.  You will get better at running if you run a lot.  If you swing your sword a lot, you will get stronger and faster.  This doesn't affect how well you control things, that is still left up to the player as always in Zelda.  For example you may be able to become a faster bowman if you use the bow a lot, but developing that speed won't help you aim any better.  These are the kinds of the things that the game needs to develop automaticly so that the soft core gamers can easilly play without worrying about whether their horse is getting faster because they ride it a lot.  Nintendo would never go so far as to put in random battles or battles using spells or menus.  They like to make a game that is played straight through your hands.  I wouldn't want the focus of the game to become leveling up.  Recent Zeldas have focused on the same old items too much.  I want new items that make the quest new and exciting.  I don't want anymore spells or music playing, it slows down the autonamy of the game.   Some say I want a RPG Zelda because I want spells.  No I want fewer spells and more adventuring, character building, sword fighting, exploring, and puzzle solving.  

[KDR_11k]

Zelda doesn't need blood. It's Zelda, not Kill Bill. Just because cutting things makes blood spill in reality doesn't mean that has to happen in Zelda-reality.

Why do we need increasing abilities to make Zelda more Zelda like? Without the stats you know what abilities the player has and how you can test him, with stats you have to guess and make sure you're not going too far for the people who didn't spend time slaughtering random stuff or riding in circles. The RPG you're proposing adds nothing to the elements you want it for.

[MaleficentOgre]

A zelda RPG wouldn't be the best selling zelda game ever.  Action adventure games are a lot easier for kids to get into.  The mario RPGs sell well because they're so far out of the ballpark and have a control scheme that isn't hard to grasp. It only works because mario and luigi are silly little fellows that can easily make fun of themselves.  Zelda is to serious for that.  If you start putting in stats and have blood in the game.  There goes half of the sales.  As far as building stats based on action, the best system for that is in the megaman zero games, not an rpg.  The zelda building is full of adventuring, and can be played completly without spells.  Sword fighting was a huge part of the last games, and the puzzles weren't that bad either, a little easy,  but not bad.  As far as character building, if you use a bit of your imagination and don't need to have the game tell everything thats going on you'll see that link grows up a lot.  Starts off sleeping, loses sister, goes to save her, ends up saving the world.  I say he has developed a lot.

[nemo_83]

I tried to get across that really it wouldn't be a Zelda RPG, but just the next Zelda with more depth and actually a hopefull return to the old school just pick and play aspect of Zelda.  The stats wouldn't decide what you can and cant do, they would just allow you to get better at the things you do do.  I've never been a fan of the large numbers for hp in RPGs.  As for blood, I wouldn't include blood in say Mario for example, I don't even think Metroid needs blood, but Zelda needs blood because when you swing a sword you cut.  When you cut a bush in Zelda it doesn't turn into a cloud of smoke, it falls over cut in half.  The same should apply to the enemies.  I'm not saying that when you stab some kid in the gut he should fall over screaming bloody murder and dragging his intestines behind himself as he tries to crawl away, I'm just saying that when Link takes a swing I want to see blood spray on his green tunic.  I want to see it run down his sword.  I want to see it drip while he runs.  But I don't want to see any blood at all in the game if they are going to make a game where the enemies' bodies still fade away as they do in most videogames.  If the enemies are going to disappear then I can at least enjoy the fact that they are straight forward about it with a pretty swirl of smoke.

I fear that they will go in the direction of custom towns, houses, and other stuff that needs to stay in games like Animal Crossing for now.  

[Ian Sane]

"Zelda needs blood because when you swing a sword you cut."

That is absolutely ridiculous.  You are complaining about a lack of realism in a Zelda game.  In Zelda bombs are big black balls with wicks on the end like some prop in a Road Runner short.  Realism isn't a concern.  In fact I would consider the absense of realism (within limits of course) as part of the Zelda charm.  It adds to the fantasy.  Adding blood, particularly in the gruesome "spray on tunic" manner you have suggested, would ruin the game.

[Bill Aurion]

"I don't even think Metroid needs blood, but Zelda needs blood because when you swing a sword you cut."

Ahahahaha!

[MaleficentOgre]

If there was blood in zelda the game would jump to M and parents won't let little kids play.  No little kids and zelda drops in sells majorly.  Besides there are better things you can do with processing power orther than making blood spewing out of octoroks.  If you cut a goblin it should go poof into a pile of smoke.  If link gets stabbed a little heart should drop off the top of my screen, the way it has always been.

[couchmonkey]

I think the most recent responses here say it all: adding blood to the series would alienate a lot of Zelda's most loyal fans.  It might earn a lot of sales from testosterone-fueled boys but I don't think those would be loyal fans...they'll buy one or two games and then they'll be on to the next cool thing.  
It's like the old story about the monkeys who knocked over a banana tree.  The greedy monkey took the top half with the bananas, and the other one planted the bottom in the ground and had bananas for the rest of her life.

I stand by my argument that a Zelda RPG isn't a great idea, but how about a Nintendo RPG along the lines of Kingdom Hearts?  I'm not saying it would look, play, or be anything like Kingdom Hearts, I'm just talking about stealing the basic concept of a game that takes place in a Disney (or in this case Nintendo) universe.

[Ocarina_Jedi]

Didn't we have this Zelda realism debate when Wind Waker was in production?  Aren't all of you Wind Waker haters satisfied with the new Zelda? I am, and I even liked the cel-shading.  Now that we are getting the realistic-graphics Zelda that everyone craved, do we have to argue about this now?  Some people are never satisfied...  Now, I'm all for innovation and updating the series, but honestly tell me, how much better would the franchise be if you added blood into a series that has been excellent without it sp far?  Was WW really so bad in that Ganondorf's skull didn't explode when you impaled it?  I'd much rather see Ninty spend their time working on snowfall and other seasonal graphics, not how the blood should spray out of enemies.
As for the RPG thought, it's just wishful thinking, for those of you who actually think that that would be a good idea.  But Myamoto wants to keep Zelda fresh, not give it an extreme makeover.  Turning one of the most successful action-adventure games into an RPG would alienate even more fans than adding blood I would think.  I say that because most of the hardcore gamers that grew up with Zelda are just that now, grown up.  If a little gore bugs you, come on guys.  You like it in GTA and Manhunt.  I don't want the blood and guts either, but I think I could live with it, just as I came to like cel-shading.  The graphical presentation isn't what makes the game, its just a new medium.

[MaleficentOgre]

I couldn't live with it.  Its zelda, not mortal Kombat.  As hypocritical as it sounds I would have no problem with ganandorf in a mortal kombat game ripping off heads and eating spleans.  but not in zelda, I mean zelda at its heart is the story about a boy going out to save the people he loves.  Link was never trained to be a hero, he was always given the role in an attempt to help people, usually his family.  Everyone from his uncle, to his friends, to his sister, and even his horse.  No matter how depressing the story lines get or how mature link becomes, there still has to be this little hint of childishness to the franchise, and throwing in spewing blood would just ruin that.

[KDR_11k]

As Miyamoto said, Zelda follows its own reality. That reality happens to have dead monsters disappear in smoke. They could have the cutting in two by having the enemy explode into a cloud of smoke that is split along your cut, but no graphic violence.

[Pikkcuber]

Zelda RPG whats next a mario pinball game?

[KDR_11k]

No, that's previous.

[Tael]

Link is a pre-defined character with a pre-defined role: he is the hero set to save the land from evil. He is completely inflexible in that regard (he has and always will be a hero fighting the good fight), which means there is no possible character development. You can't make a Legend of Zelda role-playing game with Link.