Topic: Games on other consoles that are hurting the GC

[xts3]

Alright, what games/main features do you think are holding the GC and Nintendo back from success, what would YOU do if you were Nintendo to fix their current state of affairs?

[Dasmos]

I would quit with the whole Mario Party series.............i have had enough!!

[Infernal Monkey]

I take it we're talking about NOA here? I'd fire everybody at Nintendo of Europe for doing such a pathetic job with PAL conversions. Then get a sandwhich and chew it slowly. After DELICIOUS lunch, I'd go "what" and maybe buy a new chair for the office.

"Here is a new chair for office" I would proclaim.
"That is very erotic" fellow Nintendo co-worker would blurt out.

Maybe then, I'd buy a dart board and play darts for a while. "Hey guys I think I just got an idea for a new Mario game!". Seven months later a sequel to Mario is Missing hits the market and sells all of three copies. Four are returned. After a few rounds of Mario Golf on Sega Saturn, I think maybe I would ring Shiggy up.

"Hey how ya' going?"
"I AM NOT RINK BUT I DO KNOW HIM"
"Oh cool!"

It would be about this time that Pichu comes over. "PICHU PICHU" I'd cry tears of laughter because he'd be rolling around on his back. Time for mayonaise. You bloody ripper! An entire bottle. Everybody else in the office would want some, but I would tell them no, for it is mine. I think then, I'd get a game of Monopoly going. Then I'd ring Shiggy up again and tell him to make a version that's good for GameCube.

"I will make one for DS"
And then I'd go "Oh" and hang up, because my leg would be itchy. A few days later, I'd most likely give the lads at Midway a ring.

"Hello Midway, how's the GameCube port of Deception coming along?"
"Oh er, it's gettin*-
"I BET YOU'RE ABOUT MIDWAY THERE! AHAHAHAHAHAHA LOLOLOLOLOL" and my salvia would coat the phone in hilarious rage laughter.

Next on the timetable, a game of Wreckin' Crew is in order. Hours later I will have got the game actually working. "All these flashing screens make me want some Cola" I would yell at whoever is there. Turns out it's 2AM in the morning and I'm in the gutter.

I think by now, I'd have a good long hard sweaty sexy ho-... er, look I'd have a look at the state of GameCube. This thing lacks Dark Angel and various other Acclaim games! This is HORRIBLE, this must be why Nintendo is failing or something! I would hand over ALL money to Acclaim so they could make more Mary Kate and Ashley games.

A serious game of PilotWings 64 is in order now. "RUUUAAAAAGGGGH" What a death!  

[Dasmos]

What do you mean the chair is erotic? Is it a "special" chair................ooh i gotta get one o these chairs!!!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

It caresses your buttocks with tenacity.

[joshnickerson]

Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
What do you mean the chair is erotic?

Perhaps he's channeling the spirit of Zapp Brannigan...

[Caillan]

Quote
What do you mean the chair is erotic?

John Hopoate designer furniture.

[Chongman]

disney and 90% of movie tie in games....blech

[KDR_11k]

The next launch is critical. A launch determines the initial customer base, which influences which games sell and which ones don't. Which influences which games the system gets and which ones it doesn't.
I don't think Nintendo can do anything about their customer base ths generation, even getting away from the kiddie image won't suddently bring in enough customers that want violent games to give those games decent sales numbers. And therefore those games won't be supplied by most third parties.
Nintendo should make sure they grab one or two of the most important markets at launch (e.g. exclusive sports games or RPGs or something) to get customers who buy those kinds of games and offer third partes a market to release those games in. If the Revolution was seen as the big RPG system, I'm sure Square Enix and others would follow.
The problem is, the only market Nintendo aims for is the Nintendo market. As long as they keep reusing their franchises the games will appeal to the same people, even if they don't change the gameplay they need to create additional franchises that aren't too similar to the current ones. Using less known franchises would help, too (e.g. Fire Emblem), but they shouldn't over exploit the franchises.
Nintendo should analyze which segments of the market are profitable and try to take them early on. The more of that market they capture with the first strike, the more third parties will help them conquer it.

I think sports and RPGs are the two main markets worth aiming for, RPGs sell big in Japan and sports lead the charts in the west. Having those two will give you the majority and might reel in a few smaller markets as well.

Since Microsoft cancelled their sports lineup, Sony has none, either (at least to my knowledge) and both don't make the RPGs themselves, Nintendo could get an advantage by servicing those markets with maybe two games (well, two good games or one killer app) each on launch (or shortly thereafter). Microsft got the FPS market with Halo alone, Nintendo should be able t own the RPG market with two games early on (hm, maybe a new franchise and the full Pokemon RPG people are suggesting for so long now)

[Draygaia]

Any game whether you Nin fans like or not that the GC doesn't have hurts it.  Maybe not the game but the type of game.

[Ian Sane]

I agree with KDR_11k in that the next launch is critical.  The Cube "lost" the war in the first year because they didn't have a must own killer app at launch and then had six months where virtually no games were released.  The first year is the "show me" time.  It's the small window where a first impression is made.  Nintendo had to show people that the Cube wouldn't be another N64.  They failed to do this because the first 8 months of the Cube's life were as slim on releases as the last 8 months of the N64's life.  How can you win over critics when you're doing the exact same thing they were afraid you would do?

I also agree that Nintendo needs to lay off on the franchise games.  A Mario launch title regardless of how amazing it is isn't going to be enough.  Mario just doesn't have that same system selling appeal.  Now they should still make a Mario launch title because the fans want and expect it they just need something else as well.  They need a brand new killer app that isn't an existing franchise and that targets beyond Nintendo fans.  Ideally it should be something that appeals to the older crowd yet is still friendly enough for kids to play it ('T' rating like Metroid Prime or Goldeneye).  It would also be best if it was in a genre Nintendo was unfamiliar with like an FPS, RPG, or fighting game.  The next launch has to cover all the important genres and demographics.  They shouldn't stop making Mario, Kirby or Pokemon games.  They should just make less of them and create new franchises for new gamers to identify with.

A successful launch should put Nintendo in a position to compete and should attract third parties.  That right there will fix a large portion of the problems that were present with the Cube.

[MattVDB]

Somebody has obliously never seen Sealab 2021.  That is a cartoon, yet is suited for adults.  Go Adult Swim!

[odifiend]

not only that, adult swim continuously 'steals' the 18-25 male demographic from incumbent late night talk show hosts.

[joeamis]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

A successful launch should put Nintendo in a position to compete and should attract third parties.  That right there will fix a large portion of the problems that were present with the Cube.

yep.  I believe it's really only about a killer launch and killer apps.  After that happens, you will gain the third party support, and don't lose exclusives, and get more killer apps.  People love the killer apps, the system sellers.  They increase the system base which in turn usually rings in most of the niche titles as well from developers.

[couchmonkey]

In my opinion, the adult swim cartoons are successful because they go after their intended audience, though.  I won't go into specific shows, but most of them feature one or more of:

strong sexual innuendos
pointless violence
heavy alcohol usage
"almost" nudity - they tease you a lot but are too panty-waisted to actually show anything
"almost" swearing - South Park is the most famous example, but most of those shows throw it in once in a while

Ummmm....I sound like I'm dissing those shows, but I actually really like most of them!  My point is, they're offering something specifically for adults.  It's very different from showing Muppet Babies or Winx Club or even Spongebob Squarepants.  How many adults are watching those shows?


I agree that the next launch is very important for Nintendo, but I like that the company is not giving up on GameCube either.  I think that was one of Sega's big mistakes.  My thought on Dreamcast waas why should I invest in it if it could turn out just like the Saturn?

I think Nintendo should absolutely rely on its franchises.  I think Mario can still sell consoles, as long as he's available at launch, and not given incredibly crappy ads with children dancing through parks and singing about being dirty.  Luigi's Mansion was the number one selling game on the system for quite a while, even though it had negative reviews and word of mouth.  But I agree that a more "mature" killer app that isn't necessarily a franchise needs to be available.  I also think that for marketing purposes Nintendo should save the experiments in cel shading and whatnot for later in the console's lifespan rather than earlier, but that's easier said than done.

Oh, and if Nintendo makes more deals to bring exclusives like Resident Evil or Metal Gear Solid to the console (which I think is a good idea), it needs to be sure that they are marketed properly!



Edit: All sorts of little changes....

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Sealab and Harvey Birdman are OFF DA HOOK!

ROCK ON

[Bill Aurion]

Agreed, somewhat...The only thing Ninty can do is try and improve their image...And I think their latest commercial swing is a good start(as long as it doesn't affect their games)...

[couchmonkey]

It's true that changing perceptions of Nintendo as not being adult is going to be difficult.  I hear a lot of people rave about Sony's marketing, and I don't understand why.  The EyeToy and Ratchet and Clank ads are just as corny as the average Nintendo ad.  In my opinion the only difference is the preconceptions of the viewer.  It's okay for Sony to make a cheesy ad because people are comfortable in the knowledge that Sony is "cool".

But I still think Nintendo could make things easier on itself.  I agree that the recent changes in marketing for the company are a good step forward.  Nintendo has really shot itself in the foot with some of it's marketing in the past.

[MaleficentOgre]

Nintendo changing its perception in the markey will be imposible, and it doesn't need to completly change its perception in the market.  If nintendo wants to make it big in the next console race they only need two games.  A happy mario game that will be old school platforming brilliance that we all want to see.  And a discustingly depressing Legend of Zelda game that runs a long the same line as the new one coming out.  And you win.  Well. . . its not that simple, they need to get games that their competetors won't get.  They also need to loosen up a bit on its secrecy policy, yes surprise games are good and all, but tell us a little about what we're going to be paying our $60 for.  Yeah the price is going to go up and you know it.  The big problem with MP2 is that we don't know a damn thing about it.  While Halo 2 on the other hand is everywhere.  Microsoft has given us all the details without spoiling the game.  Yes I want to be surprised at what lies in the depts of aether that we don't know, but I also want to know more than the fact that I get two new beams, can shoot while I grapple, can't survive in the dark world for very long, and have morph ball canons.  Thats good for a lot of hardcore fans, but people on the fence need to know more about the game than that.  What nintendo needs to do big time is take team ninja away from microsoft.  That would seal the dea.  Team ninja has made all but two games that I own for xbox.  Tomonobu said himself he'd make a better pikmin 3, let him do it.  It would give nintendo time to make a new franchise.  Also could you imagine what Itagaki could do with smash brothers.  He'd turn it into the game all other fighting games area measured to.  And it would look damn pretty.  Sorry I didn't mean to start ranting on the greatness of tomonobu, but seriously he's what nintendo really need right about now.

[Perfect Cell]

Its almost impossible really to do a 180... and Nintendo seems to be reluctant... Calling Popular Games like GTA "A Dead end street"


The actual image of the next console is important...  Id make it Silver, and Silver only not Purple or any other color. Leave those in Japan. It needs to have a cool shape, not a Cube or a Sphere and certainly no handles.


Killer apps are a must, No doubt. But not only doubt, the Nintendo Drought after the initial launch is also something that must be addressed...

being more open to online games, violent games, mature games, popular games. Thats where the market is going. Nintendo isnt powerfull enough to steer the market where they want to be.

Finally look into your past. The SNES Was VERY popular, one reason why? It had every Genre covered. Fighting Games? Street Fighters and Mortal Kombats... RPGS? Square/Namco/  2D Plataformers? You had the Marios, DOnkey Kongs there....

See where im going? The N64 and the Cube to a certain point did not have this...  Both are still lacking on RPGs and Good Fighting games among other genres.. I want some variety...  

[Ian Sane]

"The big problem with MP2 is that we don't know a damn thing about it."

We don't?  Nintendo sent out a free demo.  That gives us a pretty good indication about how the game plays and what it's like.  I don't want too much info.  Some games have so many screenshots revealed that I can piece together the first hour of the game just by looking at screenshots.

And I don't think a Mario or Zelda game will do anything.  Nintendo's traditional franchises just don't drive sales like they used to.  They're great franchises and worth continuing with but they're no longer killer apps.  Nintendo needs some completely new stuff to get people interested again.  The Cube's first party lineup is nearly all existing franchise stuff (aside from Animal Crossing, Eternal Darkness and Pikmin) and that lineup isn't working.  People accuse Nintendo of rehashing and this last gen they fit that image to a tee.  Less Mario spinoffs, less Pokemon spinoffs, less Kirby spinoffs, new franchises in new genres, and having some of the lesser known Nintendo properties go on leave for a gen (which will create anticipation for their return) is the key to getting people interested in Nintendo's games again.

[Caillan]

I think Nintendo's existing franchises are just fine, bar the spinoffs. I remember reading in a few forums during the 'game drought' about people recommending a GC on the basis of Metroid Prime and Zelda alone. Even if games that don't suit everyone raise no special attention (Mario Sunshine, for instance), they take nothing away. It's the crappy spinoffs that do  - they make Nintendo look like they are cheap and money-grubbing, and compared to what they could be doing with the development time etc, for all I am concerned they are. Pokemon colloseum was a joke compared to what a real, properly advertised 3D Pokemon game (one where you wander from town to town collecting badges and solving puzzles) would have done.  

[MaleficentOgre]

Hardcore fans know a lot about MP2, but they were already going to buy the game with or without information on it.  I'm saying that nintendo needs to up its hype wagon.  The halo 2 hype wagon has been going on for years.  You can't watch tv without seeing a SLY COOPER ad. Sly cooper, not gta or jak III or any of sony's big hitter, fricking sly cooper.  You want to tell me that Nintendo can't push a sequel to the cubes best first party game better than sly cooper. Every big game site has been stuck on halo 2 since it was announced in 2002.  Nintendo can sure do a lot more to let people know about the game.  If you don't buy a new gamecube subscribe to nintendo power or have 5 registered nintendo games you can't get it.  I don't buy new games because I have to feed myself, no new games no registration, no registration no demo.  If you're not a hardcore nintendo fan you don't know about MP2 echoes.  IF you can breath you know about halo 2.  That's all I'm saying