Topic: Nintendo's Western Developer Inner Circle

[Uncle_Optimus]

Nintendo's "Drought prevention" mechanism is third party support.
Absent that....it leaves a lot of thirsty customers as we have been reminded over the Last year with Wii and as some may recall with horror As being the fate of the N64 buyer.

But they should still increase their game creating assets because there is an appetite for more of their quality content and it could give them a shot in the arm in terms of cultivating new talent, IP and Understanding of different business models. Companies Can't be afraid to change and must try new things and Nintendo has in many ways showed that it is not afraid...but c'mon already guys, make some more good games! (insatiable me :p)

@Shingi: I understand why you would want them to buy Mistwalker and all that...but they probably figure putting more assets towards creating niche appeal RPG titles might not offer the highest ROI. Personally, I am still figuring out why they bought Monolith in the first place if all they intended to do was have it provide content for markets OTHER THAN THEIR BIGGEST MARKET... @-@?!

[shingi_70]

They could try for Activision Blizzard who is ru.oder to be still be looking for a buyer
 http://www.tomsguide.com/us/activision-blizzard-Sale-Buyers-Acquisition,news-15812.html

Though I'm not sure if nintendo could out bid Microsoft or Time Warner.

[Kairon]

Nintendo's "Drought prevention" mechanism is third party support.
Absent that....it leaves a lot of thirsty customers as we have been reminded over the Last year with Wii and as some may recall with horror As being the fate of the N64 buyer.

I lived through the N64 drought. I survived the GameCube drought. I thrived during the Wii drought. My body is ready Nintendo!

[Uncle_Optimus]

Nintendo's "Drought prevention" mechanism is third party support.
Absent that....it leaves a lot of thirsty customers as we have been reminded over the Last year with Wii and as some may recall with horror As being the fate of the N64 buyer.

I lived through the N64 drought. I survived the GameCube drought. I thrived during the Wii drought. My body is ready Nintendo!

Well said, sir.  (but please don't invite them to bring the droughts!)
Digital platforms and virtual console does help the situation a bit...and if VC gets a level-up to include Gamecube and Wii classics, Woot Yeah!

[Plugabugz]

Nintendo bought Retro for $1m. That is a stupidly tiny amount of money for the quality it produced since, and it might be something Nintendo should consider doing in the long term. Plus, Nintendo have no European studios at all.

Next Level Games and Monster Games are the only other two worth purchasing since then really. If Nintendo wanted to work with n-Space again they would have, and since Geist they haven't, then its not looking likely.

[shingi_70]

Nintendo bought Retro for $1m. That is a stupidly tiny amount of money for the quality it produced since, and it might be something Nintendo should consider doing in the long term. Plus, Nintendo have no European studios at all.

Next Level Games and Monster Games are the only other two worth purchasing since then really. If Nintendo wanted to work with n-Space again they would have, and since Geist they haven't, then its not looking likely.

Well from what I hear is Canadian development is where its at currently.

The one thing nintendo needs to improve on is its aqustions as well as its partnerships.


And its funny instagram and omgpop are worth more than retro.

[TJ Spyke]

Well, Nintendo bought Retro Studios before they had even released a product, so it's understandable why they were dirt cheap.

I had never heard of Omgpop before your post shingi.

[nickmitch]

They make a phone game called "Draw Something." It's like pictionary. Both companies were way overvalued.

[Louieturkey]

They make a phone game called "Draw Something." It's like pictionary. Both companies were way overvalued.

Zynga bought them for $200million.  Yes that is crazy.

[TJ Spyke]

$180 million, which is still way too much for a studio with only 1 big game (I have heard of Draw Something, but never used it and had no idea who made it).

[Kairon]

Maybe they bought it for the IP and the audience that the game already commanded?

[Kytim89]

What could these developers bring to Nintendo?
 
Vigil Games
Radical Entertainment
Raven Software
Volition Software

P.S.
 
Not the IPs they have already worked on recently.

[Uncle_Optimus]

$180 million, which is still way too much for a studio with only 1 big game (I have heard of Draw Something, but never used it and had no idea who made it).

The new digital arms race. Nearly all of the mobile game developers who have released products of any merit have been snapped up: NGMoco, OMGPop, Firemint, Popcap, etc.

What some more fun trends? Rovio, the Angry Birds folks, are still independent and are probably worth more than a storied (but recently troubled) company like Nokia...not to mention Electronic Arts, Konami, Capcom and Sega*. Heck, according to some articles I have seen they may even approach an Activision valuation shortly (They are supposedly targeting an IPO early next year worth MANY billions). *numbers taken from marketwatch.com

"Why So Crazy!?" you may be thinking...these are all perhaps inflated valuations but we are still wading into a sea change in the potential migration of industry value. The companies who control popular properties that can be easily and cheaply distributed to a potential audience of billions (the target market for good ol' boys like Acti and our beloved Nintendo, tho big, may be limited by cost, product complexity and sheer reach) are considered on the inside track to rake in those revenues.
OMGPop was acquired not for the revenue a mobile hit like Draw Something can generate in the near term, which is apparently quite a bit (over $50 million 2012 alone according to JP Morgan), but what they can potentially generate over the next 10 years. Zynga will almost assuredly make their investment back. Instagram cost Facebook a cool $1 billion...but they had to pay it to keep it out of the clutches of Google who, remember, themselves purchased Youtube for around the same to keep it away from Microsoft! Instagram is damn popular and could have given their prime competitor a leg-up.

The takeaway is that those companies and those acquisitions are gearing up for another level of market size and competition and are not completely analogous to the value we as established gamers would bestow upon the properties that are nearer and dearer to our hearts.

On this note, EA is a truly fascinating case. Thanks to their own acquisitions and initiatives, more so than any other player, they straddle the "traditional" and the "new" markets. Yet their market cap is albatrossed by the doldrums of the current traditional retail market (and perhaps Mass Effect 3 angry fanboy curses). Seemingly little weight is given the fact that they possess significant mobile hit-maker assets like a Popcap studios
...they are looking CHEAP, folks! @_@

[Uncle_Optimus]

What could these developers bring to Nintendo?
 
Vigil Games
Radical Entertainment
Raven Software
Volition Software

P.S.
 
Not the IPs they have already worked on recently.

Sorry to hijak the thread with my silly essay, Kytim.
For fun and to get an idea of their strengths, lets look at what these studios have created. I will just pull out some notables according to my eye:
http://youtu.be/IS7Og1zvdy8

Raven Software
Developed: Hexen, Heretic, X-men Legends, Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Shoehorned-in Nintendo property I could see working: Nintendo RPG (cross btwn Mario RPG and Ultimate Alliance)
BTW: they already belong to Activision

Radical Entertainment
Developed: Battle of Olympus, Mario's Time Machine(!), Simpson's Road Rage, Tetris Worlds, Hulk Ultimate Destruction, Scarface, CSi games, Crash Bandicoot licensed games, Prototype
Shoehorned-in Nintendo property I could see working: Star Tropics!! ...uh, Mario Battle Kart!!...dunno, these guys are all over the place
BTW: they are on the sales block and may be closed down by Activision, most employees already released

Vigil games:
Developed: Darksiders
Shoehorned-in Nintendo property I could see working: Eternal Darkness or action-oriented Zelda spin-off (assuming Ninty owns the rights)
BTW: owned by THQ, maybe their best studio


Volition, Inc.:
Developed: Freespace, Descent, Red Faction, Saint's Row
Shoehorned-in Nintendo property I could see working: mature Balloon Fight, mature Tingle's Rose-Coloured Rupeeland
BTW: owned by THQ, maybe their best studio


One question though, Kytim: I know wishful thinking is one thing, but why do you assume Nintendo could just acquire one of these studios for a reasonable price? Radical Entertainment perhaps as they are actually on (fire)sale, but they have little prior history with the Big N and are under some...administrative...distress right now. Nor do any of the other studios on that list.
Any purchase of an established developer would probably require a collaborative history and positive relationship. As others have noted, a Monster games or perhaps Kuju Entertainment makes more sense. Or Sega* (my own wishful thinking) just to get their hands on IP like Panzer Dragoon and Virtual On

*just checked their valuation again and Sega would be, as expected, too expensive. It would be more like a merger given the relative sizes ...and the history of successful mergers is spotty at best

[shingi_70]

**** that shoehorning nintendo ip into gamed noise. Probably my biggest complaint about nintendo and why a lot of their games are judged unfairly. Pretty sure if star fox adventures was dinosaur planet ot wouldn't have gotten that much hate.

Though even then I don't expect nintendo to have these guys work on anything cool. They have the DJ hero guys working on Sing for God's sake.

And in this Case the already existent ip and techie what these companies would be purchased for.

Kind of assumed that of Sony ever were to. E bought it would be Microsoft or Sony.

[Uncle_Optimus]

Not even Mature Balloon Fight? I for one think a reimaging like that, say for 3ds, would really pop!

1 point and 1 question:
- even if Nintendo pried one of those quality (and not on fire sale) developers from their existing publisher relationships, there is no guarantee any IP would come with such an acquisition. It is as likely that, for instance, Activision would own the rights to all the IP created by Raven software. Acquiring any nice juicy IP would this be a separate dealio.

-what is wrong with Sing? There are surely many customers who want a decent karaoke game they can have fun with in family or social settings. In fact, there might even be more potential customers than, for example, a new F-Zero and almost certainly more than for a new Sin & Punishment ....

[Kairon]

Without a deep karaoke song selection, SiNG has limited appeal. No ABBA, Beatles, Broadway musicals, etc. no sale.

[shingi_70]

Nothings wrong with sing, I just find it boring compared to the DJ hero games.

And I realize that Sing has more appeal than other games. I defended Microsoft having the best E3 because of that.

[Louieturkey]

What could these developers bring to Nintendo?
 
Vigil Games
Radical Entertainment
Raven Software
Volition Software

P.S.
 
Not the IPs they have already worked on recently.

Nintendo is less about the name of the studio and more about the talent in that studio.  In Japan, loyalty is a big deal.  In the US, people get hired and fired depending on the game that needs to get finished or if it just finished.  If Nintendo bought a company, there's no guarantee that the talent would stay there, so they'd just be buying a name.  In the case of Sega, it might mean something (though as uncle_optimus points out, the Sega name is still too expensive to be worth it).  In the case of Raven or Volition, it means little to nothing to the majority of the public. 

I'd rather have Nintendo just create their own new western studio and hire the people they want to hire for it who they believe will stick around longer than it takes to finish one game.  Buying a company for the name is a waste of money.

[Kytim89]

What could these developers bring to Nintendo?
 
Vigil Games
Radical Entertainment
Raven Software
Volition Software

P.S.
 
Not the IPs they have already worked on recently.

Nintendo is less about the name of the studio and more about the talent in that studio.  In Japan, loyalty is a big deal.  In the US, people get hired and fired depending on the game that needs to get finished or if it just finished.  If Nintendo bought a company, there's no guarantee that the talent would stay there, so they'd just be buying a name.  In the case of Sega, it might mean something (though as uncle_optimus points out, the Sega name is still too expensive to be worth it).  In the case of Raven or Volition, it means little to nothing to the majority of the public. 

I'd rather have Nintendo just create their own new western studio and hire the people they want to hire for it who they believe will stick around longer than it takes to finish one game.  Buying a company for the name is a waste of money.

What I meant is that Nintendo would buy not only the name of the developers, but also the staff, which would most likely jump at the chance of working for Nintendo for job security. In the case of developers such as Raven and Radical Activision would most likely sell them to Nintendo at a decent price since they are going to lay them off any way, so why not make some cash off it in the process? As for Vigil and Volition, I do not think that THQ will last much longer. THQ's creditors would most likey sell to Nintendo due to their reputation as a competent developer. The biggest obstacle to all of this is Nintendo themselves. Had it not been for the recent financial loss they incured I would bet that Nintendo would go on a shopping spree and have SEGA and various western developers in their cross hairs and a check book on standby.

[Kairon]

What I meant is that Nintendo would buy not only the name of the developers, but also the staff, which would most likely jump at the chance of working for Nintendo for job security.

What makes you so sure? A ton of Retro staff have left that company.

[shingi_70]

While I agree with loyalty somewhat I think too much is a bad thing and is why a lot of Japanese companies are stagnet. The reason why the American tech industry is the start up. Also I remember reading in an editorial about Sony in times how people who were fired for various reasons would just be brought back and reassigned even even ina position that had nothing to doxwoth their expertise.

But I'm in the create more studios from the ground up camp. I also think nintendo as a company could benefit for building a engine similar to frostbite.

[Uncle_Optimus]

What could these developers bring to Nintendo?
 
Vigil Games
Radical Entertainment
Raven Software
Volition Software

P.S.
 
Not the IPs they have already worked on recently.

Nintendo is less about the name of the studio and more about the talent in that studio.  In Japan, loyalty is a big deal.  In the US, people get hired and fired depending on the game that needs to get finished or if it just finished.  If Nintendo bought a company, there's no guarantee that the talent would stay there, so they'd just be buying a name.  In the case of Sega, it might mean something (though as uncle_optimus points out, the Sega name is still too expensive to be worth it).  In the case of Raven or Volition, it means little to nothing to the majority of the public. 

I'd rather have Nintendo just create their own new western studio and hire the people they want to hire for it who they believe will stick around longer than it takes to finish one game.  Buying a company for the name is a waste of money.

What I meant is that Nintendo would buy not only the name of the developers, but also the staff, which would most likely jump at the chance of working for Nintendo for job security. In the case of developers such as Raven and Radical Activision would most likely sell them to Nintendo at a decent price since they are going to lay them off any way, so why not make some cash off it in the process? As for Vigil and Volition, I do not think that THQ will last much longer. THQ's creditors would most likey sell to Nintendo due to their reputation as a competent developer. The biggest obstacle to all of this is Nintendo themselves. Had it not been for the recent financial loss they incured I would bet that Nintendo would go on a shopping spree and have SEGA and various western developers in their cross hairs and a check book on standby.

If you Have some infoz that I don't, let's say we take a lil trip down to the ol market

Kidding aside I understand better why you brought up these studios. I also agree that there is are positives with acquiring a ready made team of developers: apart from individual talent, a team will have an established culture, are familiar with each other and thus hopefully know how to work together. In this case one of the major concerns would be "does the way we have always done things jive with how our new publisher does things? These points in a dev relationship matter as well, and we all know Nintendo certainly has their own way of doing things.

Should point out that there is still no guarantee you could keep all the talent tho. Not only do western devs (and the western work culture in general) seem more prone to move around, but its not out of the question that some guys just might not want to make the next Mario Basket or something Nintendoey along those lines :p

[NWR_insanolord]

I think a better move for Nintendo to expand its western development is to add more teams at the studios they already have in place, rather than buying new studios. They've got good things going on at Retro, so why not get more projects happening within that established culture instead of having to adapt existing teams to the Nintendo way of doing things?

[Kytim89]

I think a better move for Nintendo to expand its western development is to add more teams at the studios they already have in place, rather than buying new studios. They've got good things going on at Retro, so why not get more projects happening within that established culture instead of having to adapt existing teams to the Nintendo way of doing things?

Retro Studios really needs a handheld and eShop division. Although the developers from those four companies that I mentioned could be absorbed into Retro Studios to boost their output.