Topic: Zelda on Wii is mirrored, game map reversed...

[Ian Sane]

"You aren't really familiar with Miyamoto's work, are you?  The entire game design ethic at Nintendo is built around trial and error. Every game starts as a tiny concept that they build on. Most of their games get this same treatment until the game is finished. Your only argument seems to be that the GameCube version isn't having the same refinements made to it. I'd argue that it probably is, you just aren't hearing about them since all the focus is on Wii."

I'm quite familiar with Miyamoto's work, just not the details of how he gets there.  Technically this isn't a tiny concept that they build on.  This is a Cube game shifted to another platform partway through development.  It's not like a concept being explored.  It's trying to get a Cube game to use a control scheme it wasn't originally intended for.  If that's how Nintendo typically makes games though I guess there is less reason to be worried.

Still I can't think of Nintendo classic showing off one control scheme in May and then having a different one by the time it was released in November of the same year.  There actually really isn't anything to compare to since a situation like this hasn't happened before.  The difference between controllers has never been so big before.

[ShyGuy]

This is like not really  Mortal Kombat for the SNES and the Genesis. The Genesis controller had only 3 buttons, but the SNES version had green blood.  

[Kairon]

Matt thinks it's no big deal:

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I've been a diehard Zelda fan ever since the first game came out and I can honestly tell you, I couldn't give a rat's ass. Really. And just to make sure I haven't gone mad, I asked Zelda nut Peer Schneider -- a frothing fan of the franchise -- how he felt about these changes; like me, he doesn't much care.
...
What shouldn't you care about? Well, how about whether or not the doorways in the game world slide left or right? (Unless you're writing both the GCN and Wii strategy guides for the game, in which case, good luck.)
...
The game isn't out yet. You haven't even experienced it. You have no context. So try not to worry about trivial modifications.

He also has no reason to dislike the new controls... but THAT is an issue for another thread.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Mario]

The impact of Link standing on the left side of the screen and looking up at a castle on the right could possibly be MUCH bigger than when flipped around. It's actually a HUGE difference that could take away a lot of the impact and epicness of the game Nintendo has been trying to achieve. Sure it's the "same thing" but flipped, but imagine if someone flipped all your desktop icons to the other side of the screen. It'd be different, and they wouldn't be as epic.

Would anyone have complained if they just left it how it was and Link was left handed? As a right handed person I would not have minded. I wont even feel like i'm controlling Link anymore, just some right handed imposter. Immersion factor has taken a huge dive and Nintendo is treating this like some kind of shareware PC game being ported to a mobile phone.

It wouldn't suprise me if the Wii version had "exclusive Wiimote puzzles" since they haven't done enough to screw buyers of the GC version yet.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Matt thinks it's no big deal:

Quote
I've been a diehard Zelda fan ever since the first game came out and I can honestly tell you, I couldn't give a rat's ass. Really. And just to make sure I haven't gone mad, I asked Zelda nut Peer Schneider -- a frothing fan of the franchise -- how he felt about these changes; like me, he doesn't much care.
...
What shouldn't you care about? Well, how about whether or not the doorways in the game world slide left or right? (Unless you're writing both the GCN and Wii strategy guides for the game, in which case, good luck.)
...
The game isn't out yet. You haven't even experienced it. You have no context. So try not to worry about trivial modifications.

He also has no reason to dislike the new controls... but THAT is an issue for another thread.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

You left out the most important line:

"But be aware, people who have been playing Twilight Princess longer than any of us call the tried-and-true button-based sword swiping function of old games "clunky" compared to using gestures with the Wii-mote."

[IceCold]

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Sure it's the "same thing" but flipped, but imagine if someone flipped all your desktop icons to the other side of the screen. It'd be different, and they wouldn't be as epic.

I've never heard someone refer to desktop icons as "epic"

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Sure it's the "same thing" but flipped, but imagine if someone flipped all your desktop icons to the other side of the screen. It'd be different, and they wouldn't be as epic.

Actually, that'd be called a Mac.

[mantidor]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
It wouldn't suprise me if the Wii version had "exclusive Wiimote puzzles" since they haven't done enough to screw buyers of the GC version yet.

And later these very same remote puzzles will be included in the real Zelda game, which will dismiss any gimm!cky remote ideas except some very simple mechanic, since Nintendo realized long ago some games just don't need this tacked-in controls   Mario 64 DS and new super mario bros all over again LOL

ok, seriously, since when did we start to listen to Matt's opinion anyway?

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
You left out the most important line:

"But be aware, people who have been playing Twilight Princess longer than any of us call the tried-and-true button-based sword swiping function of old games "clunky" compared to using gestures with the Wii-mote."

well, duh! the people who have been playing the game are the devs themselves, they aren't going to say the swinging with the remote is not better than the buttons, even if thats true .

[GoldenPhoenix]

::ignores Mantidor since it is the same closed minded whining::  Maybe we are listening to Matt because he actually played the game unlike some people here who need a baby's bottle. In fact that may be a great controller attachment to include with the game, a pacifier.

[mantidor]

oh please, you are only listening to Matt because he's agreeing with your opinion, this is the same guy that cried because lack of HD, and everyone here didn't mind at all flaming him to death.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
oh please, you are only listening to Matt because he's agreeing with your opinion, this is the same guy that cried because lack of HD, and everyone here didn't mind at all flaming him to death.

Actually I never had a problem with Matt, and I do listen to his opinion whether I agree with it or not. Unlike some individuals I actually respect it because I feel he usually thinks it through (that does not automatically mean a person is right, but it does make me take them a bit more seriously). On the flip side I tend to disregard the opinion of people who hated TP for Wii the day it was announced it was being ported without knowing jack about it (and really still don't besides the small bits of information that were revealed). Anyway I was more interested in the individuals he talked about that have played it alot (I doubt it was only the developers, probaly the testers as well who need to be objective and fair).

Personally I don't have much of an opinion on Zelda TP either way (well I am more on the positive side of things but still leave open the possibility it may turn out poorly) since I haven't played it, but I am going to give Miyamoto the benefit of the doubt (which people like Ian and Mantidor obviously are not), I think he deserves that much, and feel this whining is stupid along with being a tad bit childish. Once it comes out and if there are complaints I'll listen, but when it comes to individuals who haven't even played the game complaining (concern is fine but it is when you have already made up your mind it sucks is where the problem lies) and closing their minds to it, I have no choice but to find that pathetic along with being laughable.      

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
oh please, you are only listening to Matt because he's agreeing with your opinion, this is the same guy that cried because lack of HD, and everyone here didn't mind at all flaming him to death.

Wait a second... if we're not upset... and Matt, our mortal enemy, isn't too concerned... who's left?

We'd be listening to him even if he disagreed, it's just that in that case we'd have to comment on any points he brought up. Since he brought up nothing concerning, it's not our job to discuss his opinions, its the job of those who see problems in them.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[18 Days]

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Sure it's the "same thing" but flipped, but imagine if someone flipped all your desktop icons to the other side of the screen. It'd be different, and they wouldn't be as epic.

Actually, that'd be called a Mac.

Which is of course an improvement.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: 18 Days

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Sure it's the "same thing" but flipped, but imagine if someone flipped all your desktop icons to the other side of the screen. It'd be different, and they wouldn't be as epic.

Actually, that'd be called a Mac.

Which is of course an improvement.

An epic one.

AAAAANNNDD we're right back where we started.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
oh please, you are only listening to Matt because he's agreeing with your opinion, this is the same guy that cried because lack of HD, and everyone here didn't mind at all flaming him to death.

Wait a second... if we're not upset... and Matt, our mortal enemy, isn't too concerned... who's left?

We'd be listening to him even if he disagreed, it's just that in that case we'd have to comment on any points he brought up. Since he brought up nothing concerning, it's not our job to discuss his opinions, its the job of those who see problems in them.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Still not quite sure why everyone hates Matt, like I said I don't agree with everything he says, but like Ian, he seems to think his opinion through and makes decent points. I'm definately not against being concerned or even having doubts about TPs controls, but it is when you have pretty much made up your mind it will detract from the game. With new means of controls you have to keep an open mind even if you have doubts, because at one time even the analog stick was doubted. Yeah TP wasn't made from the ground up for Wii, but it has had enough time in development to give the new controls potential (along with some new puzzles to take advantage of it that may not be found in the GC version).

In the way of illustrating why I think you should have an open mind, I will give my thoughts on some DS games (before and after they came out). The first one was Mario 64DS, I wasn't too thrilled with tad pad controls, but I was willing to give it a fair chance. When it was all said and done I ended up not liking it but at least I tried to keep an open mind until I played it with the touch screen (actually I vastly preferred the clunky pad controls, and did end up getting all the stars). On the flip side I had doubts about the touch pad controls from MPH, and guess what? I felt they really benefited the game after playing it. With Star Fox DS I thought the touch pad controls had potential, but now do not care much for them (that game could have benefited from an analog stick).  

[Kairon]

Not to mention, an open-minded Nintendo fan is more likely to purchase third party titles...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[RickPowers]

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Still not quite sure why everyone hates Matt ...

Let's just say that you only have to see a guy show up to a function in a professional capacity, shall we say ... lacking capacity ... to lose any and all respect for him you might have had.

Peer, Fran, Craig ... they're all great guys.  Hopefully marriage has changed Matt a bit, because I'm sure he was a nice guy, but he had serious lapses of judgement at times.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Still not quite sure why everyone hates Matt ...

Let's just say that you only have to see a guy show up to a function in a professional capacity, shall we say ... lacking capacity ... to lose any and all respect for him you might have had.

Peer, Fran, Craig ... they're all great guys.  Hopefully marriage has changed Matt a bit, because I'm sure he was a nice guy, but he had serious lapses of judgement at times.

Yeah. Often times I find Matt quite rational and sensible and I respect his opinion and want to listen to his criticism (even if he doesn't drink the kool-aid). But there are times when all of a sudden he does something that... eh... prevents me from ever trusting him fully.

Oh well, maybe he's just trying to start a personality cult?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Ceric]

Another Matt thread... We should just get a forum area that Says "Talk about IGN and Matt here."