Topic: Zelda on Wii is mirrored, game map reversed...

[Ceric]

Ok folks are we talking about the same pictures here I'm confused.  I looked at the picture that showed they were mirrored yesterday in another topic which is alluding me today so I can verify.  I remember looking at and the whole thing was flipped sure except the Mini-Maps were different.  The one from E3 had an exit that was straight out and the one from New York had an exit that was to the right.

So could someone link that actual comparison for me so I can see it again?

[JonLeung]

Here's the picture that I linked to yesterday or the day before or something (scroll down to near the bottom of the page).  You're right, the exit has changed from the top to the side, but most of the mini-map, as well as what is visible, is horizontally mirrored.  I'm not sure if that's the picture you wanted though, if there are others.  

[RickPowers]

First, I don't really understand how it would be easier to simply flip the entire game as opposed to only flipping the character models.  I suppose that for the same reasons I mentioned before about not having a left-handed option ... it minimizes the testing and QA needed.

Second, I don't understand why so many of you (by you, I mean "nerds on the internet") are talking about being outraged.  You haven't played the game yet, so I don't see how it should matter to anyone.

Hold on ... *reads forum tagline again* ... never mind, carry on.

[Ceric]

You know I'm sort of wondering why they didn't show the whole screen like the other one. (Wii one is cut off.)  Also It's not above the Zelda series to reuses assets by say flipping them or just totally put you in a room you've seen before.  Also as you noticed in the mini-map the exit side changed so, this could also just be a simple level redesign.  They might have found through testing that the flow was better this way, that entering from the right into the dungeon allowed for a better dungeon design, or even simply that it compressed better for the Gamecube version that way.
There are lots of factor to be considered.  Since they made just that slight change to the mini-map I think that there is more to this then meets the eye.  Mirroring just for mirroring sake would be silly.  No there has to be something else at play here then just Links handedness.

Edit:  Kairon and Capamerica:  Iwata is not pleased with you.

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
First, I don't really understand how it would be easier to simply flip the entire game as opposed to only flipping the character models.  I suppose that for the same reasons I mentioned before about not having a left-handed option ... it minimizes the testing and QA needed.

It would depend on what interactions Link has with the world around him, and how asymmetrical those things he interacts with, or his own actions, would be.  Like if he needs his sword hand or shield hand on a particular side.

A crude example: say there's a steam vent sticking diagonally out of a wall.  Link times his jump off a nearby ledge so that the steam hits his shield and propels him where he needs to go.  If Link was mirrored but the world wasn't, then he wouldn't be able to use his shield against the steam.  If both are mirrored then it's not a problem.  (Of course, they could redesign the stages...you'd think they could've with all the time they've spent with the game...)

Maybe not a good example but something similar like that could "explain" why the whole world would be mirrored if Link is, even if just to match the handedness of the majority.  It still doesn't explain to me why they don't do the same for the GameCube version and just create some consistency between the games - especially since it's already been established that this is a different Link.  I don't remember anything saying that everyone in the bloodline named Link HAS to be a lefty (and even if so, it could be easily retconned).  

[couchmonkey]

This is really weird, but who cares?  As someone pointed out, it seems a little unecessary since the sword controls aren't 100% accurate anyway, but I'll live if Link isn't a lefty and even if the whole game is backwards.

My concern is with the length...I don't WANT 100 hours.  At some point the game just gets monotonous, no matter how good it is...and as pathetic as my life is, I do still have other things to do.  Most of all, I'm afraid quarter of those hours will be wasted on travel.

[UltimatePartyBear]

The only thing I can think of is that they also changed which side of the screen Link stands on when aiming the bow.  The level design probably took that into account to make it less likely that enemies would be hidden from the player's view by Link's body.  I'm not convinced they simply flipped the entire game world, though.

[Dirk Temporo]

Guys, I really don't see how mirroring the game affects the game at all. It's the same exact game, just mirrored. It plays the same, has the same enemies, the same plot, the same areas, the same FUN.

[Spak-Spang]

Seriously, how is this a big deal?  With each game we get a completely new Hyrule landscape...it isn't like they are changing the locations of an actual real city or something.

Nintendo simple flipped the image to make the game alittle easier to mentally understand as a Right Handed player.

Sometimes people really take things too seriously, and make issues out of nothing.  Link being Right handed is nothing.  The World being flipped is nothing.  The game orginally being designed for the Cube and now moved to Wii with enhanced controlls is nothing.  

All you need to know is that the game is Zelda.  Play it and enjoy it...and if you decide you really hate the controls of the game, then buy the Gamecube version.  

[Athrun Zala]

that's it

NINTENDO IS DOOOOMED

[Ceric]

It's all Bill's fault:

Quote
PGCer: Bill Aurion
Thread: Mother 3 Thread

Over any other matter, no, but this is MOTHER! THE WORLD TURNS UPSIDE DOWN WHEN YOU TEASE ABOUT THIS! SERIOUS BUSINESS!

Bill made good on his promise and a world was flipped.  Though he must have been laying down when he did it.

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Seriously, how is this a big deal?  With each game we get a completely new Hyrule landscape...it isn't like they are changing the locations of an actual real city or something.

Exactly, Spak. I'm still trying to figure out why everyone thinks this is such a big deal.. how does it change the experience in any way? Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't.

[Ian Sane]

I think the biggest problem with this is the patchwork nature of the Wii version.  First they set out to make the ultimate Zelda game for the Gamecube.  No one can argue that was the original intent.  Then along the way they decided to make a Wii version as well to help sell the new console.  The problem is the two consoles have very different control schemes and typically a game designed for one type of controls doesn't easily transfer to something completely different.  There was also the problem that since this wasn't designed for the Wii from the ground up it was not going to fully utilize the remote.  It would be a workaround to try to get a Cube based control scheme working on a Wii controller.

So Nintendo came up with something and demoed it at E3.  And it wasn't too popular with those that played it.  So Nintendo then changed the control scheme to a gesture based system.  That brought up the issue of right handed players swinging their right hand for a left handed character.  So they reversed the whole game.  All these changed have happened within the same year the game is due to come out.

The whole project has been "well let's see if THIS works".  I can't imagine such a trial-and-error way of making a game resulting in a classic.  Nintendo clearly has never been sure of exactly what they want to do with the Wii version.  If they did they wouldn't be changing things so much.

Makes me wonder how much is done on the Cube version.  Is it done?  If it's so simple to reverse everything I would assume that everything is done to reverse.

[JonLeung]

It's all comparisons and expectations.

If Twilight Princess is fun enough on its own, and playable with its controls (this is Nintendo we're talking about, and this is Zelda, they're not going to screw it up) I'm not going to complain about mirroring, or how else the controls were, or whatever.

It's like how Nintendo should've dumped Wind Waker on us without the SpaceWorld 2000 demo.

From what we know, we know that Twilight Princess was ported with controls added, but unless this "patchwork" comes up as actually noticeable shoddiness in the final product, I think we're being pessimistic here.  I actually enjoyed Star Fox Adventures (bite me) and Eternal Darkness despite their N64 pre-incarnations.  Twilight Princess is different because the previous-gen version will also be available, making comparisons possible, but it comes out something like 11 days later.  Guess what?  By then I'd have already finished the Wii version and won't care to compare if I ever even did.

[vudu]

So does this mean that all the enemies are pretty much lefties now?  Technically, you could look at this as Link setting out on an epic quest to exterminate all the south paws that plague our world.  Yeah ... I kinda like that.

[couchmonkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane


So Nintendo came up with something and demoed it at E3.  And it wasn't too popular with those that played it.

Actually, on PGC we've got Pale claiming he was happy with it at E3, and he considers the latest version better than GameCube, with Bloodworth chiming in that he was also happy with the E3 version.

Edit: watch out for Vudu's lefty extermination squads!

[mantidor]

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Originally posted by: 18 Days

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
And I really don't understand why is this so important that they had to mirror everything, would right handed people care that much if Link is left handed? not really, so why do it? immersion? what immersion? the sword doesn't even swing the way you swing the remote, thats way more problematic for immersion than which hand Link carries the sword.

So then. Why do you care? I mean, you'll jsut be able to hold the Wiimote in your left hand right? it wont matter which way you swing!

because of this.

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Have any of you thought that perhaps later on in the game the hand you use will be much more important? Most likely not, since so many seem to rip on the game when the vast majority haven't even put their hands on a version of it and those who have were only introduced to it via a demo.

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
MJR I figured they were but you never can quite be too sure! Anyway not to get off topic, I doubt Nintendo changed hands and mirrored everything for the simplified gesture based sword fighting, there must be more things within the game that made this change necessary.

I just reread the thread and no one thinks this mirroring is a big deal by itself, is pretty much harmless, and thats what should worry any left-handed person, if its of such little importance, why do it in the first place? the concern here is what VGrevolution is saying, that theres is something in the game that makes necessary the flipping, and if such thing exist a left handed gamer is pretty much screwed if theres no option to flip the game back.

My concern is more solidarity with my fellow southpaws that interest in how the wii version will turn out, because I was never interested in it, and with these recent news, Im even less interested.

[Michael8983]

The more I think about this the more sceptical I am of this whole thing.
The screenshot comparison means nothing to me. We've only seen a TINY portion of the game afterall and it's still in progress.
Miyamoto's supposed confirmation is suspect too. He could have very well been referring to the the Link character model or the gameplay engine being mirrored and not the actual in-game world.

[AnyoneEB]

vudu: Is that Link's secret? He's not the predestined Hero or whatever, he's just the only person in Hyrule who knows how to fight off-handed opponents?

[TrueNerd]

LOL I hope they don't flip all the text in this game! LOL!

I can't wait to play LoZ: Double Dash!! on my Wii.

Seriously, this just seems... crazy. I read this somewhere else, and perhaps it was mentioned in this thread as well, but this game is going to hit strategy guide writers everywhere for massive damage.

[Strell]

What the hell is wrong with you people.

I'm not even going to hold the damn thing in my hands anyway.

It's Wangmote FTW.  And that is direction agnostic, bitchez.

[IceCold]

So... if Ganondorf is in, what hand will he be holding his sword in?

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
What the hell is wrong with you people.

I'm not even going to hold the damn thing in my hands anyway.

It's Wangmote FTW.  And that is direction agnostic, bitchez.

The legal ownership of "Wangmote" is still a matter of contention.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[RickPowers]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The whole project has been "well let's see if THIS works".  I can't imagine such a trial-and-error way of making a game resulting in a classic.  Nintendo clearly has never been sure of exactly what they want to do with the Wii version.  If they did they wouldn't be changing things so much.

You aren't really familiar with Miyamoto's work, are you?    The entire game design ethic at Nintendo is built around trial and error.  Every game starts as a tiny concept that they build on.  Most of their games get this same treatment until the game is finished.  Your only argument seems to be that the GameCube version isn't having the same refinements made to it.  I'd argue that it probably is, you just aren't hearing about them since all the focus is on Wii.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
The entire game design ethic at Nintendo is built around trial and error.  Every game starts as a tiny concept that they build on.  Most of their games get this same treatment until the game is finished.

Quoted for awesome truth.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com