Author Topic: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)  (Read 17407 times)

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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2006, 10:11:04 AM »
If it is Nintendo Power's exclusive then I bet it has to do with an actual Nintendo game.

I would predict either Metroid Prime 3 or Smash Brothers Melee Revolution information...and Prime 3 being the most plausible.

The reason is simple.  Nintendo Power is the perfect place for Nintendo to prehype information before E3, and also provide them with additional revenue from a sweet exclusive.  And Prime 3 and SBMR are the games America already knows about and would greatly appeal to the American audience.  

At this point I am 100% positive Prime is going to be a launch game and therefore, is going to be furtherest along.  With that said Nintendo Power getting a few pictures and a run through from a demo level would seem like a great exclusive story.


Offline wandering

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2006, 10:13:08 AM »
Mario 128? New Miyamoto IP?
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2006, 10:14:39 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I would predict either Metroid Prime 3 or Smash Brothers Melee Revolution information...and Prime 3 being the most plausible.

I completely agree...IF the exclusive is in fact a first-party title...

(Ninty is definitely saving Mario for E3...I'm pretty much expecting it to be the last thing they show, really...)
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Offline MysticGohan

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2006, 10:18:50 AM »
Lies! Nah I'm just messing with ya Bill :p E3 can't come soon enough, I can't wait to see what they've done to Metroid and Mario. Prime and Dread should be cool.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2006, 10:44:55 AM »
If Nintendo can get a Metroid Prime 3 game with the depth of a true Retro singular player Prime experience...and then expand on the multiplayer aspects of Metroid Prime Hunter, then I think we have a killer app on our hands.

Seriously, although the character designs on some of the new bounty hunters were weak, the overall addition of the characters made Prime: Hunters a much better game.

I would love to see those characters, and a generic Space Pirate, and a few new bounty hunter characters added into a Revolution multiplayer experience.  

Perhaps they could even figure out a way for a person to play as a Metroid in the Multiplayer game.  Nothing would be cooler than to have a mode were you have to hunt the Metroids down and the Metroids are Player controlled, and able to regenerate life, and absorb the life force of others.  


Offline Kairon

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2006, 11:04:33 AM »
Despite Hunters, I'm still not convinced that Metroid is a franchise that CAN offer a fully satisfying and fully implemented Multi-Player mode.

Well...yeah, it could be one. But I am pessimistic about the prospects of Retro or Nintendo succeeding on that score...

Okay...I'm confused now...in my head I already have an idea of a way for Multi-player to be implemented so that it's still Metroid, not a typical FPS deathmatch, yet still adrenaline-pumping and competitive and satisfying...

*GAH*

Okay, maybe I should say that I don't expect Metroid 3 to be a so-called "Halo - Killer."

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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2006, 11:16:48 AM »
Kairon:  Why do you have doubts?  The NST team worked closely with Retro in many aspects of Hunters, and so Retro already has a start with new characters to include in the game, I more precise controller to use for movement and combat, and they have some of the most talented programmers and artists around.  

I think Metroid Prime 3's multiplayer will rock.  I think the problem is the sour taste we have from the first attempt...but I think the problem with that is Retro was still limited by Nintendo and the franchise in how to develop multiplayer.  I think the new game won't be limited at all, and include some amazing battles and great WIFI support.


Offline TrueNerd

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2006, 11:39:28 AM »
Instead of making a game that tries to do both single player and multiplayer great, a feat that is rarely if ever accomplished, why doesn't Nintendo leave Metroid be as the awesome single player experience it is and develop a new IP that has more a multiplayer focus? As Hunters thoroughly proved to me, the Metroid franchise limits the multiplayer experience by its nature. Red Steel will satiate my multiplayer FPS needs. I don't need Metroid trying to be something it's not.  

Offline Kairon

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #58 on: April 12, 2006, 11:44:13 AM »
I believe that the legacy gameplay fo the franchise itself limits it. I mean, Metroid Prime is an FPA. Why are we trying to pigeon-hole an FPA game with FPS multiplayer?

Even looking at Metroid Hunters, it's only half "Metroid game" and the other half straight-up deathmatch FPS on the DS. Sorry to sound like Ian, but that's the truth.

The thing is that Metroid as a franchise has never emphasized multiplayer, it has emphasized solitary exploration. It has never emphasized combat skill, but pattern recognition and exploration.

To take a Franchise that we expect that sort of gameplay from and expect to see a robust multiplayer mode that will be widely accepted is, in my opinion, extremely premature.

If anything, I believe that for Metroid to incorporate a multiplayer more, the lore has to be developed and decentralized away from the Samus character and an entirely new way of interpreting competitive or cooperative gameplay has to be invented.

How? Let me give you my 1-minute half-baked idea:

Don't make Metroid a plain deathmatch game. Make it a competitive Indiana Jones game. Make multiplayer competitive levels which are still small enough to induce frequent player collision, but also large enough to include several platform - exploration - PlayerVsEnvironment puzzles.

In such a mode all the players will start out away from each other on the peripheries of the stage. The stage will be littered with power ups, weapon and suit upgrades hidden behind challenges reminiscent of 1-player gameplay that they will need to be more effective at killing each other. In such a way, players will be encouraged to explore the still-small level and do those Metroid-esque challenges, before they want to risk open engagement in the central arena of the stage. Upon dying, they lose all those power ups and respawn.

There are two ways to win the game. Either be the first to reach a set number of kills... or upon a total number of kills being made, a path opens up which exposes rooms with 1-player-esque challenges that lead to an artifact. If you can get to the artifact and bring it to the center of the main arena BEFORE someone makes the "winning kill count," then you win.

.... Something tells me I've gone overboard.

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Edit: Or use the above idea but instead of counting kills, count "minor artifacts" that can be collected because they randomly spawn at various points in the level, or that are left behind when a player dies.

Edit: OR, have another style of competitive mode where the key is to get the most bounties. This would require a lot of NPC enemies in the level (meaning a centralized server probably, an additional cost I suspect Nintendo would be loathe to spring for) and the player who killed the most space pirates, through expert exploration of the level and through expert disruption of other player's efforts and avoidance of their attempts on him or herself, would win.

Edit: These ideas are dishearteningly complex, and would require big bandwidth and possible a centralized server. These are financial obstacles that I doubt Nintendo would want to risk.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2006, 11:46:42 AM »
I really didn't think Metroid Hunters limits multiplayer at all.  I think it makes it different.  I really enjoy Hunters as a game, and appreciate the different and unique feel of the battles over the typical other shooters around.

I also think you can have both.  Several games have accomplished it.

Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Halo
TimeSplitters 3 Future Perfect.

Metroid Prime 3 can accomplish this.  And use Metroid when you can develop another franchise, because Metroid Prime now has recongition and identity as being a quality franchise.  People are already going to buy the game, make it the best and add multiplayer to attract even more people to the series.  


Offline Kairon

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2006, 11:49:47 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I really didn't think Metroid Hunters limits multiplayer at all.  I think it makes it different.  I really enjoy Hunters as a game, and appreciate the different and unique feel of the battles over the typical other shooters around.

I also think you can have both.  Several games have accomplished it.

Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Halo
TimeSplitters 3 Future Perfect.

Metroid Prime 3 can accomplish this.  And use Metroid when you can develop another franchise, because Metroid Prime now has recongition and identity as being a quality franchise.  People are already going to buy the game, make it the best and add multiplayer to attract even more people to the series.


Spak Spang, all those games you mentioned are FPS'. Metroid is NOT an FPS. In that sense, it is justified to say that Hunters is NOT a Metroid game.

Make of that what you will. *shrug*

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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2006, 12:02:47 PM »
Aw, but I don't buy that whole FPA thing.  Its not completely true.  

Metroid Prime was a First Person Shooter that focused on exploration, and created a new means of fighting in the 3D space.  Lock on and such.  

But lets just use the term FPA accordingly for Metroid Prime series.  Does the control mechanics make it a FPA or is it the pacing, style of gameplay and such.  I argue it is the later and not the control.

Hunters isn't looked down upon because the control prevented it from being a FPA...but despite the control Hunters didn't deliver on an engaging story, world, or real exploration moments.  The single player game though despite all that still is engaging and at times feels very much like Metroid.  

Now, I mention that because Metroid Prime 3 will most likely have a brand new control style...I am predicting one without any type of lockon system for targeting.  Why?  because the new REVmote is intuitive enough not to end that and still deliver an engagin experience.  

Therefore, it is Retro's jump to create an engaging control scheme that allows you to immerse yourself in Prime 3's world like never before.

Then it is up to Retro to fill the adventure moments of the game with engaging scan "dialog" plot points, puzzles, exploration and more.  In the end, it isn't the control scheme that creates the sense of adventure, but the pacing and feel of the game.

So in my book the only game that isn't a true Metroid game is Metroid Prime Pinball.

Hunters to me is perfectly acceptable as a Metroid game.

So will be Prime 3, whose control style although different will be perfect for a FPA and a specially designed multiplayer FPS element to the series.


Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2006, 12:21:52 PM »
Metroid Prime 2's multiplayer sucked but that didn't bother me.  If anything I was a little happy about that.  Metroid Prime 2 delivered a fantastic single player mode just like Metroid Prime and the other Metroid games before it.  I was incredibly relieved to see that they didn't ruin the single player by changing the design to make a better multiplayer.  They had a design that worked incredibly well for the single player and they kept it, even though it didn't lend itself well to multiplayer, because the single player mode in Metroid is everything.  It's the whole point of the game.

So Metroid Prime 3 should also be a fantastic single player game first and foremost.  They shouldn't even THINK about multiplayer when they design the controls and the gameplay for it.  They should make the best single player 3D Metroid game they can with the new controller and then tackle a multiplayer mode.  If the multiplayer turns out great that's awesome and if it sucks because of the controls it doesn't matter provided the single player mode is awesome.  That's what matters.  That's Metroid.

Now it's not good if the multiplayer sucks and Nintendo was relying on it to be an online killer app.  But they shouldn't be.  If they want a "Halo killer" they should make one and not take a series that was never designed as such and force it into becoming one.

It's clear that Hunters was designed primarily with multiplayer in mind.  The single player mode was an afterthought and that's why it's a decent FPS but a lousy Metroid game.

Offline trip1eX

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2006, 12:22:55 PM »
They can still give MP3 a MP feel.  

I was playing MP2 last night and thinking how nice the Revmote would be for looking around.  There's alot of beautiful artwork in the game and it's a pain to look at it all with the analog stick setup.

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2006, 12:31:17 PM »
Ian Sane:  True, but what I am saying is that Prime 3's control should actually evolve the play experience.

Imagine a game that you have to can enemies to figure out their weakness, and if you target and scan different areas you learn more about them.  Scanning would have to be sped up to work, but it could allow for multiple scan points on an enemy.  Then boss battles and such would be about precision aiming to hit those weak points with different weapons and abilities.  

Prime 3 could evolve the entire Prime experience into something greater, by allowing a more free form look.  I do think the control needs to still allow for those cool, dash evades and such, but that can be accomplished without lock on.

Now with the games controls evolving the single player, it can also evolve multiplayer.  Imagine creating your character and custom picking a weapon of choice and weakness for your armor.  The only way to know the weakness is to scan your opponent.  (Heck maybe the weakness is random each time you respawn.)  Now you have a Metroid multiplayer experience requiring you to play smart.  Scan the enemy learn their weakness and exploit it.  Perhaps Hacking a person can add more weaknesses to their armor and make it easier to hurt them.  All of this is possible and fits into Metroid Multiplayer better than any other multiplayer universe.

Why can't people see it is possible to have both, and both very well with Metroid.


Offline Kairon

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2006, 01:54:48 PM »
I'd be perfectly happy with Metroid 3's multiplayer if they completely abandoned the "deathmatch" concept and replaced it with something else. My belief is that multiplayer should not be based on combat skill, but instead on the very things that make the single-player metroid what it is: navigation, exploration and adventure. How might they do that? I haven't the clue. I may even be wrong in my belief that this is the direction to go to. But enough of my amateurish ideas on that subject.

While I certainly leave open the possibility you suggest Spakky - that Retro and Nintendo might be able to transmute the Metroid franchise YET AGAIN - I doubt that it will take place in reality. Echoes was in so many respects a straight-up sequel to Prime, so with regards to Retro, I don't know if lightning will strike the same place twice. And with regards to multiplayer capability, I doubt that Nintendo will put forth the effort, infrastructure, or funds to do ANYTHING close to an epic enough multiplayer experience to start to compare with traditional FPS. And finally, like you yourself suggest, the game's concept would need to evolve wih both single player and multiplayer in consideration...a big double-if.

It's certainly possible and I would personally welcome the challenge to create game design that would allow such a thing, but I doubt that the will, the talent, the resources, the idea AND the desire exist to make Metroid Prime 3 anything more than a Metroid Sequel using the Revolution Controller.

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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2006, 05:30:03 PM »
Kairon:  All valid points...and it is a question if the balance and everything can come through.  I am a complete fanboy and have 100% faith in Nintendo.  They are the only game company still making games I want to play.

But I am that odd Adult market that likes "kidddie" games.  

Oh, and thanks for the strange, shortening of my name.  :^P

Offline Kairon

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2006, 08:02:15 PM »
Lol. Anytime Spangle.

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Offline TrueNerd

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2006, 08:49:40 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: trip1eX
They can still give MP3 a MP feel.  

I was playing MP2 last night and thinking how nice the Revmote would be for looking around.  There's alot of beautiful artwork in the game and it's a pain to look at it all with the analog stick setup.
That right there is a good call.

Also, it is unlikely we'll see many changes with MP3, as Retro has said that MP3 is the last game of the Metroid Prime trilogy. The game after MP3, that is where I'm expecting changes. Hopefully it's a straight up sequel. The end of Fusion left a lot of possibilities, and I want to experience said possibilities.

Man, the next Zelda and Metroid games may be the last as we know them... that's kinda scary but also kind of awesome considering Nintendo's unblemished track record when it comes to transforming their flagship franchises.

Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2006, 11:45:24 PM »
Dare I propose co-op Metroid Prime 3?  They seemed to pull it off with Kirby, so who knows?
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Offline MaryJane

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RE:Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2006, 04:02:07 AM »
I don't think I like the idea of co-op play in metroid. Isn't one of the major points of the game  to be solitary in exploring?

As for mulitplayer, to think that MP3 won't have a multiplayer since, most likely based off of hunters is quite foolish. If MP2 had and Hunters focused on it, why wouldn't 3 have it? They do want it to be a Halo killer, and i belive it can be. This game is an FPA only to those who know it. To all others who look at this game it is an FPS and they want what every FPS tries to deliver, engaging single player mode, with fast-paced guns blazing multi-player mode. Nintendo could improve on this and I do like some of Kairon's suggestions. Multiplayer will be a big part of MP3 count on it.  
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2006, 05:48:53 AM »

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Interesting ONM comments (HYPE++)
« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2006, 06:17:21 AM »
Noted.

I edited (tried to delete) my last two entries because I moved them to a more appropriate place.  I just got carried away in here supporting Metroid Multiplayer...and the evolution of Metroid Revolution Controls.

Anyway, I moved things to the right thread now.