Author Topic: Marionette  (Read 12103 times)

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Offline nickmitch

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2005, 06:37:39 PM »
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Originally posted by: nemo_83
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Originally posted by: TVman
I'll give you zelda and metroid but smash bros and pikmin? SM would be too hard and strenuous. And being able to move pikmin around with the c-stick is important.


Smash Bros would be the first real fighting game ever.  You would simply run up and throw any punch you want or swing a weapon exactly as you want.  There could still be some buttons on the controller, but mostly you could program any "move" to be triggered by specific poses.

In Pikmin you would be able to reach into 3d and select with your fingers, virtually, which Pikmin you want, and then use the mic to tell them what to do.  

I hope Nintendo gets some Blizzard games on the REV.


Yeah, but would actually fighting get tiring sometimes? I wouldn't be able to play for five hours at a time anymore!

And if you and your pikmin were walking along a narrow bridge, then how could you keep them in line? Plus, if you needed a specific color and in a hurry but those four yellow pikmin are waaay in the back then you'd have to go a reach for them but by then the electric buggy might have already gotten you. With the controller you can select exactly which one you want by holding A and pressing the D-pad.
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2005, 10:51:40 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
I'll give you zelda and metroid but smash bros and pikmin? SM would be too hard and strenuous. And being able to move pikmin around with the c-stick is important.


Smash Bros would be the first real fighting game ever.  You would simply run up and throw any punch you want or swing a weapon exactly as you want.  There could still be some buttons on the controller, but mostly you could program any "move" to be triggered by specific poses.

In Pikmin you would be able to reach into 3d and select with your fingers, virtually, which Pikmin you want, and then use the mic to tell them what to do.  

I hope Nintendo gets some Blizzard games on the REV.


Yeah, but would actually fighting get tiring sometimes? I wouldn't be able to play for five hours at a time anymore!

And if you and your pikmin were walking along a narrow bridge, then how could you keep them in line? Plus, if you needed a specific color and in a hurry but those four yellow pikmin are waaay in the back then you'd have to go a reach for them but by then the electric buggy might have already gotten you. With the controller you can select exactly which one you want by holding A and pressing the D-pad.



I don't think it is healthy to sit and play any game for five hours.  At least if you're moving around you'll get some exercise.  Part of the point is to get gamers off their asses.  Gaming has an image problem even today; it is seen as a sedintary activity.

And in Pikmin or any RTS your perspective is above the characters so that you have optimal access to the characters.  

"On another note, "Super Mario Nation" seems to fit well with the "Revolution".... "

It does sound right, but they could just as easily go with the Marionette thing which also works as an online pun.  Perhaps the word marionette is too big of a word though.  I posted a topic on nintendo.com on this and the I LOVE HALO 2s over there; it went right over their heads.  I gave the definition to the word and they still couldn't put it together.  


"A fighting game like that would simply be fighitng"

With the controls used along with a camera, well the controls can become virtual.  You can simulate some wild sci fi mechanics inside the game that we can't build.  Imagine controlling the movement in a fps with your left arm as if you had a wireless flightstick device in your hand, but only in the game, and able to do more than any tilt and turn flight stick.  If you wanted to make the character jump you could simply lift your arm verticle and it would measure the movement and translate it to full analog in the game.  So much can be done with just one arm and not even considering the triggers or buttons they might put on the handles.

This makes me want to know what Nintenod is doing badly; I am in danger of actually being disappointed because this video has given me so many ideas for what could be done with technology now.

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Offline Dasmos

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2005, 12:35:03 AM »
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Originally posted by: nemo_83
"On another note, "Super Mario Nation" seems to fit well with the "Revolution".... "

It does sound right, but they could just as easily go with the Marionette thing which also works as an online pun.  Perhaps the word marionette is too big of a word though.  I posted a topic on nintendo.com on this and the I LOVE HALO 2s over there; it went right over their heads.  I gave the definition to the word and they still couldn't put it together.  



They wouldn't understand it because it doesn't make sense.  
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2005, 01:04:23 PM »
What do you not understand?

How the video demonstrates a type of gameplay that is much more equivalent to puppeteering a virtual character than can be done with a bunch of buttons?

How the words Mario and Marionette connect?  It was the name given to a secret game by Nintendo and was said to be a marionette themed game.  Best guess is that whatever that secret was that they didn't want the competition to know about; it went on to become a heavy influence over what the Revolution became.


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Offline Artimus

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RE: Marionette
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2005, 04:02:04 PM »
The video shows a better version of 'acting stupid while in a big character suit' than marionette contorl. You use a stick to control marionettes, often with levers and pulleys much like buttons.

Offline nemo_83

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2005, 04:40:44 PM »
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Originally posted by: Artimus
The video shows a better version of 'acting stupid while in a big character suit' than marionette contorl. You use a stick to control marionettes, often with levers and pulleys much like buttons.


Just because the technology changes doesn't change the fact it is puppetry.  You're movements are tracked by the camera and any internal sensors.  
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Offline Artimus

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2005, 05:31:56 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
The video shows a better version of 'acting stupid while in a big character suit' than marionette contorl. You use a stick to control marionettes, often with levers and pulleys much like buttons.


Just because the technology changes doesn't change the fact it is puppetry.  You're movements are tracked by the camera and any internal sensors.


Just because your movements are confined to a joypad doesn't mean a controller isn't puppetry.

I doubt you've the first clue about real puppetry.

Offline nemo_83

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2005, 06:49:38 PM »
I'm talking about progressing it further beyond the buttons on the current controllers.  Developers have shown their inability to progress any further with simply finger functions.  When the character is controlled using a camera tracking your limbs and body movements you can't concentrate on fourteen buttons that really do nothing but give commands like "attack the ATSTs," rather than lend to the control of the character or vehicle on screen.  

Even when a real marionette is being puppeteered the operator must use his/her entire body for the performance and not just the fingers.  The thing is that true marionation is a craft that must be learned where the example I am giving with the video, the computer allows you to control the character literally without knowing techniques; the cpu does the work.  By moving your body and arms around you are literally telling the computer what you want the character's arms and body to do.  

It does not matter whether you puppeteer the character with one camera or three cameras or if the controller is a small puppet that you move around that gives you the measurments you need to tell the computer what you want the digital character on screen to do; its still a form of puppeteering.  

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Offline nickmitch

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RE: Marionette
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2005, 07:14:33 PM »
But do you really want to reach all the way in the back of a crowd of 100 pikmin? That just seems to tedious.  
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2005, 07:34:38 PM »
Actually I was thinking it would help so that thousands can be controlled at once.
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Offline The Omen

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2005, 07:55:08 PM »
Super Mario was named after the super or landlord of their building.  I believe Mario's designed after him as well.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Marionette
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2005, 08:32:17 PM »
The rumor I heard was that Mario was a nickname given to Jumpman in Donkey Kong by the players...

Offline Dasmos

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2005, 12:51:22 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
What do you not understand?

How the video demonstrates a type of gameplay that is much more equivalent to puppeteering a virtual character than can be done with a bunch of buttons?

How the words Mario and Marionette connect?  It was the name given to a secret game by Nintendo and was said to be a marionette themed game.  Best guess is that whatever that secret was that they didn't want the competition to know about; it went on to become a heavy influence over what the Revolution became.


The video yes, but this video is not a real game.  The video is more of an equilavent to a giant costumed mickey mouse moving around than a puppet.

What puppet moves it's arm forward when we move an arm forward, moves it head when we move our head, moves it legs when we move our legs and jumps when we jumps? None I have ever heard of.

Those things happen when you're in giant Mario suit, so what I am trying to say is that this movie is closer to an virtual costumed animal than a puppet.

You can make assumtions about videogames are actually virtual puppets that we control buttons, but can this be said for a car? We can steer the car by using the steering wheels, does this make the car a puppet? We can turn the sound up on a stereo, is sound our puppet? No..
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Marionette
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2005, 10:17:24 AM »
this movie is closer to an virtual costumed animal

Imagine the possibilities! Wait... I just thought about the furry use... exscuse m- *runs to bathroom, throws up*  

Offline nickmitch

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2005, 07:09:45 PM »
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Originally posted by: nemo_83
Actually I was thinking it would help so that thousands can be controlled at once.


Just how in the heck would that help control k's of pikmin!?! You're controlling Olimar in the game and he has short little arms!  
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2005, 06:47:37 PM »
"Super Mario was named after the super or landlord of their building. I believe Mario's designed after him as well."

Ratial stereotype of a super vs allusion to supermarionation.  


"The video yes, but this video is not a real game. The video is more of an equilavent to a giant costumed mickey mouse moving around than a puppet."

It is a video of a real game these people made.  The suit is not required, its only for show.  

"Just how in the heck would that help control k's of pikmin!?! You're controlling Olimar in the game and he has short little arms!"

Even in Pikmin on Cube using sticks you select the Pikmin from a distance, but using sound rather than having to touch the Pikmin you want to direct.
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Offline The Omen

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2005, 10:36:48 PM »
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Ratial stereotype of a super vs allusion to supermarionation.


It is a racial stereotype, but Shiggy himself spoke about it.  His name was Mario Seguli, or something aloing those lines.  I believe in Donkey Kong, Mario is Mario 's'.  Or some other game...ah, what the hell does it matter?

I actually choose to believe this....  http://www.aethiamud.org/communist_mario/
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2005, 11:30:35 PM »
dang, I don't know why I spelled it ratial.  
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Offline nickmitch

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RE: Marionette
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2005, 05:19:26 PM »
So, were you saying that you'd direct and select the pikmin with your voice and then use the gloves to throw them?

I guess that could work.
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2005, 12:18:00 AM »
It could work out many different ways depending on what the big gardener in Japan wants.
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Offline stevey

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RE: Marionette
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2005, 02:48:43 PM »
this will never happen nintendo HATE'S vr and vr helment after the vb. They shall never repet any part of vb.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:Marionette
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2005, 07:27:55 PM »
Nintnedo doesn't hate VR, they just failed miserably with it the first time.  You can bet on the fact that Nintendo has atleast be in the R&D stage with a new VB that will be implemented into a future system in some way or another