Topic: Pirates of the Caribbean

[that Baby guy]

Dead men tell no tales...

[Ian Sane]

I saw Pirates 3 on Saturday.  Some stupid brat behind me was asking his mom a question every five minutes in a regular volumn voice so that may have affected my enjoyment of the film.  But then considering how the film made no sense at all I can't really blame him for being confused.

I thought Pirates 3 was fun and I enjoyed myself but I have no intention of ever seeing that movie ever again.  It is the typical modern blockbuster - lots of stuff happens but almost none of it has to happen.  The plot was clearly made up as they went along.  The set and costumes are complex enough that obviously something had to be written ahead of time but if they weren't I would assume that some scenes were made up on the spot the day of filming.  The dialogue is even mysteriously vague whenever a new plot point is introduced.  We'll mention something about a goddess or pieces o' eight now in one of the early scenes with all the characters all acting like this is common knowledge but we won't provide any hints to the audience about what it even means until an hour later when I, the scriptwriter, has had enough time to figure out some sort of possible solution.  Hell a huge chunk of the film is about freeing the goddess but once they do it seemingly accomplishes nothing.  My brother described Pirates 2 and 3 as like a season of 24 compressed into two three hour movies.  Sub-plots begin and end and are forgotten about and everyone jumps sides at least once but in the end only the last ten minutes matter.  Now when one has to wait a week for each episode this style of writing works because it hides how dumb the story is in sequence but it doesn't work in a movie.  And Chow-Yun Fat's characters seems to have been designed solely to create another action figure because all of the plot involving him ultimately accomplishes nothing.

I think most people will like Pirates 3 but you'll feel like moron for liking it.

And why do both Jack and Barbosa each have one of the pieces o' eight?  Wasn't Jack the original captain and then Barbosa took his place in a mutiny?  Then wouldn't only ONE of them have a piece?  It's one ship with one captain and each ship seems to be decended from the original pirates that sealed the goddess in the first place.  It makes no sense for Barbosa to have an exceptional "first mate piece".  Ideally there would be one piece for the Black Pearl and logically Barbosa would have taken Jack's piece when he marooned Jack in the events prior to the first film.  Of course the real explanation for this is that they made up all this crap as they went along and had no initial plan in place.  I don't really expect them to since the first film was probably initially designed as just one film.  Everyone makes it up as they go but the audience isn't supposed to be able to tell that.

I think the problem is this idea of filming two sequels at once.  They did that for both The Matrix and this and both times it resulted in films that consist of just a buncha stuff happening with no real focus.  Lord of the Rings was able to film three movies at once because it was based on a story that had been published decades before.  There was already a plan.  I think there is potential for more Pirates films that are good and have decent plots.  The trick is to make the films self-contained.  Have the next film just be an adventure of Jack Sparrow and don't try to connect everything into one big giant story.

The irony is that the same movie execs that love having films become franchises are the same ones that always want to cram so much stuff into every sequel when they actually could milk the franchise longer by spacing things out better to make MORE movies.  Having seperate adventures with different villains and not connecting sequels into one big story is they best way to keep things going.  But no instead we get big jumbled crap like Pirates or three movies worth of villains in Spider-Man 3.  Funny how James Bond uses self-contained sequels and that movie franchise has lasted over 30 years.

[IceCold]

Quote
And Chow-Yun Fat's characters seems to have been designed solely to create another action figure because all of the plot involving him ultimately accomplishes nothing.

Well, to be fair, he was a Pirate Lord and then passed it on to Keira Knightley, who was able to become King and make the decision.. But you're right; many of his scenes just added to the bloat.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I haven't seen SPidey 3 yet, waiting for DVD, but I really wish they had only introduced Vemon at the end of Spidey 3 and saved him for Spidey 4.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I understood the piece of 8 thing as Jack having one because he was the original captain (it was just their junk anyway), and Barbossa got one when he took over the Black Pearl. He also died a Pirate Lord and did not give it away to someone else, same with Jack, he died as a Pirate Lord and didn't give the title to anyone else. There are lots of possible explanations, it was not that big of a deal. I wouldn't call POTC3 jumbled crap either, most of it made sense, but like the previous movies it will take a couple viewings to understand everything.

[that Baby guy]

That was my biggest problem with the film:  Two pirate lords from the area, let alone ship, without letting us in on the circumstances allowing them both to have a piece of eight.  I understand Jack Sparrow having a piece, it was handed down with his ship, but for Barbossa, who was there to pass it down to him?  Is it something that can legitimately be stolen to count as "passed down?"  We don't know, and we won't know.

Anyways, I walked into the second and third movie of the series with no expectations, mostly because I could barely remember the first movie for some reason.  I thought the second movie was alright, but not an excellent film overall.  I thought the third was actually pretty good, and received some unfair criticism, probably because of the success of the original film.  I believe several websites were giving it somewhere around a 6/10, but I felt it was closer to 7.5/10.  I was tired of reading reviews that complained too much about too double crossing in a pirate film.  That's half of what the movies have been about, and I appreciated that the first thing that happened once everyone was in the normal world was a stand-off,  as well as all the other tricks.  People don't become pirates for the relationships, they do it for their own greed, excepting our two protagonists, Orlando Bloom and Keira Knightley, who character-wise, have learned how to deal with pirates by now, so they blend in as well as the other pirate main characters, when it comes to double crossing, though they try to do it for the good of others, and not for their own gain.

I liked the scenes where Jack was talking to himself.  People I talked to said they didn't understand why the movie had those, but to me, it seemed to answer the question of whether he was crazy, or if he has everything planned all along.  The answer being that he really is insane, and these other personalities basically influence everything he does, for the better.  But that's just my impression.

The whole Calypso and Davey Jones subplot was a little gratuitous, though, and I think if they had either solidified it or just taken it out, it would helped the movie out quite a bit.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
That was my biggest problem with the film:  Two pirate lords from the area, let alone ship, without letting us in on the circumstances allowing them both to have a piece of eight.  I understand Jack Sparrow having a piece, it was handed down with his ship, but for Barbossa, who was there to pass it down to him?  Is it something that can legitimately be stolen to count as "passed down?"  We don't know, and we won't know.

Anyways, I walked into the second and third movie of the series with no expectations, mostly because I could barely remember the first movie for some reason.  I thought the second movie was alright, but not an excellent film overall.  I thought the third was actually pretty good, and received some unfair criticism, probably because of the success of the original film.  I believe several websites were giving it somewhere around a 6/10, but I felt it was closer to 7.5/10.  I was tired of reading reviews that complained too much about too double crossing in a pirate film.  That's half of what the movies have been about, and I appreciated that the first thing that happened once everyone was in the normal world was a stand-off,  as well as all the other tricks.  People don't become pirates for the relationships, they do it for their own greed, excepting our two protagonists, Orlando Bloom and Keira Knightley, who character-wise, have learned how to deal with pirates by now, so they blend in as well as the other pirate main characters, when it comes to double crossing, though they try to do it for the good of others, and not for their own gain.

I liked the scenes where Jack was talking to himself.  People I talked to said they didn't understand why the movie had those, but to me, it seemed to answer the question of whether he was crazy, or if he has everything planned all along.  The answer being that he really is insane, and these other personalities basically influence everything he does, for the better.  But that's just my impression.

The whole Calypso and Davey Jones subplot was a little gratuitous, though, and I think if they had either solidified it or just taken it out, it would helped the movie out quite a bit.

Another possible explanation is that the Pirate Lord title was handed to Barbossa when one of the other pirates retired. Regardless it isn't a plot hole, just something the movie was unclear about. In regards to Calypso, I think that plot was necessary since that was the driving force behind Davey Jones, and in turn Will.

[Ian Sane]

"I liked the scenes where Jack was talking to himself. People I talked to said they didn't understand why the movie had those, but to me, it seemed to answer the question of whether he was crazy, or if he has everything planned all along. The answer being that he really is insane, and these other personalities basically influence everything he does, for the better. But that's just my impression."

I viewed it more as insanity as a result of dying and coming back to life.  Like he wasn't necessarily insane before (or at least he didn't see visions of himself) but developed that when he was more or less in Hell having to move a ship on land all by himself.

"Another possible explanation is that the Pirate Lord title was handed to Barbossa when one of the other pirates retired. Regardless it isn't a plot hole, just something the movie was unclear about."

You're right.  It doesn't have to be a plot hole.  But the way the film was written the pieces seemed more like "main character medals".  I think a different film with a tighter plot could have a potential plot hole like that and get away with it.  But in this film it looks like a goof.  The film as a whole lacks focus so why should I assume that a bizarre potential goof was intentional?  The whole film was probably written in a boardroom with representatives from the fast food and toy industries present.

[that Baby guy]

I don't consider it a plot hole, either, but I would like to know the canonical reasoning behind why Barbossa has one.  I could come up with hundreds of ways it was possible, and all of them would work, but I would much rather the writers tell how he got it, even if through an interview.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
I don't consider it a plot hole, either, but I would like to know the canonical reasoning behind why Barbossa has one.  I could come up with hundreds of ways it was possible, and all of them would work, but I would much rather the writers tell how he got it, even if through an interview.

Well there is always the possibility it was a cut scene, that kind of stuff happens all the time with movies. In regards to the movie not having focus, um, yes it did. The focus mainly on the pirates fighting for their very lives, everything they did was for that one goal.