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Messages - Adrock

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I don't think I can justify Super Bomberman R for more than $30.

I forgot about this Nintendo Direct.

I watched the Fire Emblem Warriors trailer. It's a musou game. Lucina isn't in the trailer or art. I'm less interested in this game. I'm sure she'll show up eventually.

The Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valencia logo is weird and confusing. It looks like Fire Emblem: Shadows of Valencia Echoes and uses three different fonts. Who designed that nightmare?

Once again, your looking at this from the tech standpoint of someone who's actually educated in what this hardware can do and cost which the average consumer isn't going to look up.  It wasn't the fact the motion controls where new that sold it, it was the fact Wii Sports was a great game to show it off.  If the technology was selling because it's new then Playstation VR should be lighting up the charts right now, but it's not because there's no killer app for it.
Once again, no, I'm not. I'm referring to perceived value, and people don't need to know or research something to consider it expensive. This isn't even limited to technology. Someone can see a $20 sandwich on a menu and determine the cost too high without know what's in it, how its prepared, or ever asking why.

And I didn't say the Wii Remote sold merely because it was new. You're misconstruing my points by completely taking them out of context. I previously said two things:

1. People bought Wii Remotes because it was new and no one had ever seen anything like Wii Sports before.
2. People didn't just pay $60 for a controller; they paid $60 for a controller that was different and new.

The Wii Remote was inherently tied to Wii Sports as neither would have been as successful without the other. The value proposal was consumers needed to buy additional Wii Remotes to get the most out of Wii Sports.
Seriously, that's my whole point.  If Nintendo can get the right software that convinces people they need a second full set of Joycons, I don't see the price being as big a deal.  Which is what people thought the full $60 for the Wiimote + Nunchuck back in the day was too much until Wii Sports proved them wrong.
Viewing the right and left Joy-Cons separately, "the right software" was Wii Sports if Wii Sports wasn't already a thing. HD Rumble is a support feature with no gameplay potential so we're left with the IR Camera. Maybe Nintendo comes up with something groundbreaking. I wouldn't bet on it though. As previously stated, I certainly don't think it's 1-2 Switch.

Obviously, I think complaints about the prices are fair even within the context you've presented. A Joy-Con set is still $109.98 if one wants to charge and play multiplayer at the same time which I'd imagine most do. The higher the price of something (be it a sandwich, a video game thing, house etc.), the harder it becomes to justify purchasing it. Maybe people pay it begrudgingly. That may be the cross Switch owners bear.

But once again the thing is the general public doesn't know how much this tech cost for Nintendo to product.  To them the only comparison is a Wiimote plus Nunchuck was $60, while another Joycon is $80.  The average consumer isn't looking up to see how much Nintendo is overpricing the thing, it's just a $20 different to them.
People don't need to know how much tech costs to consider it overpriced. It just particularly sucks for the people who do know. That said, in response to "some of the same suspects who are saying Nintendo can't demand such a price because the Wii U was a failure," I think their criticisms on the price of the Switch console and peripherals are fair.

Separately, you keep bringing up the Wii Remote and Nunchuk, but the comparison doesn't work. People didn't just pay $60 for a controller; they paid $60 for a controller that was different and new. Nintendo sold Wii on the back of motion controls. It can't do that in 2017. There's nothing about the Joy-Con that makes it as easy to justify as the Wii Remote in 2006. Also, you're weirdly cavalier about "just a $20 difference." I can't speak for anyone else, but $20 is a big enough difference for me in most circumstances. There are games I'd buy at $20 that I'd never consider buying at $40, let alone $60. An $80 controller is bananas, and it isn't even $80 with the hidden cost of the Joy-Con grip.

People complained about the Wii's price when it was first announced as well.  It was just a modified Gamecube and IGN famously posted an article months earlier saying the hardware Nintendo was making the Wii with was so cheap that they could launch the system for $100.  So when low and behold, they announced the Wii was going to be $250, there was quite a few people saying the Wii was going to be DOA because it's price was way too high.  I still remember, some of the same suspects who are saying Nintendo can't demand such a price because the Wii U was a failure said the same thing about the Wii since the Gamecube was considered a failure back then as well.

Same thing with the nickle and dime complains about the Wiimote, especially when it was revealed the Wiimote and Nunchuck were both sold separately.  The same suspects were once again saying "No way are families going to spend that kind of money to buy more Wiimotes and Nunchucks".
People complained about Wii's price without knowing Wii Sports would be a cultural phenomenon, and understandably so since that's quite difficult to predict. People rushing E3 isn't necessarily indicative of how the general public will react. Does anyone expect 1-2 Switch to carry the same weight as Wii Sports? I don't, but maybe I'm wrong. To me, 1-2 Switch doesn't look like something I've never seen before. And not only is 1-2 Switch not-Wii Sports, it isn't even included with the console.

While I think $299.99 is okay and I would personally pay it, I think the criticisms levied against it are fair. People bought Wii Remotes because it was new and no one had ever seen anything like Wii Sports before. The Joy-Con is a Wii Remote with some extras. That means, not only is the Joy-Con no where near as groundbreaking as the Wii Remote, it's largely based on decade old tech. I don't mean that to sound derogatory. It's really great that a single Joy-Con is almost a Super Nintendo controller. Nintendo still isn't reaching back to the Blue Ocean with it. They've seen it before. They want the next Wii Remote, not the Wii Remote again. That said, nickel and diming consumers with Wii Remotes and Nunchuks when no one had ever imagined it or knew how much that tech cost isn't the same thing as what Nintendo is doing with Switch accessories. We've seen it before and know how much most of that costs now, and it isn't $49.99 and $69.99. I don't think to comparison to Wii works here.

TalkBack / Re: The Nintendo Switch: A Mixed Bag
« on: January 16, 2017, 12:54:38 PM »
Unless it has raisins in it, then there's some bad.
That's raisinist.

Day one
1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
2. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
3. Super Mario Odyssey
4. Super Smash Bros. For Nintendo Switch

Eventually/On Sale
1. Splatoon 2
2. Xenoblade Chronicles 2
3. Fire Emblem Warriors

I think the dock stays the same and Nintendo releases a Switch Pro at some point. I'd give it two to three years.

Nintendo announced the product...give them time.  Nintendo self corrected on the 3DS because they thought the perceived value was good. 

The Switch Controllers are really cool and I like the fact that for simple games I can have 2 full Switch Controllers covert to either A) 2 Full Nunchuck/Wii remote controllers.  4 SNES controllers.  or 1 Full Functioning Game Controller.  The prices are slightly high, but Give them 4-6 months and it will change.

Also, give Nintendo time to here the complaints about the SNES/NES game available for a month only and then they might change their mind.  UNLESS Nintendo decides to charge only $25 for the service.

I think Nintendo will adjust and correct ship quickly.  The Dock will be repriced.  The controllers probably not.  But I think they need to sell them bundled together with the controller attachment...just a simple single purchase. 
Give Nintendo time? No. Absolutely not. A company does not get to fail at launching its last handheld AND console at an acceptable market price and get another pass. That can get right the **** out of my face. You mention Nintendo self-correcting with 3DS. How about not fucking doing that in the first place let alone continually doing so afterwards? I am, of course, referring to Switch peripherals. I think $299.99 is okay though a pack-in game would have been better. $249.99 was the magic number in which fence sitters could probably convince themselves to make the jump. And $199.99 may have kept Switch sold out for the rest of the year.

In any case, I don't know how Nintendo keeps getting this wrong. What makes this especially weird is that Nintendo offers industry-best value on downloadable content. As a software company that primarily makes its profits by publishing games, Nintendo is more than generous with offering content yet strangely stingy with the hardware to play it on.

I read about Touchsense earlier. It's cool and all. However, since Nintendo didn't even bother to mention it, there isn't much to talk about.

And unless HD rumble adds like $30 to $40, one can't even begin to make a case for the Joy-Con/Pro Controller price. The rest of the tech is old and cheap. Did Nintendo even include a magnetometer? I don't recall Nintendo mentioning it (though it appeared in Switch patents, I believe). If not, that's something included in the Wii U Gamepad that was taken out. Otherwise, as previously stated, one need only look to the dock to see the extent of Nintendo's price gouging. There's absolutely no reason to believe that's where Nintendo drew the line and all the other peripherals are fairly priced.

part of my reasoning for even early adopting would be to play w/ my daughter, which means I will need a 2nd set of joycons and a grip. But for $110.00 before tax, it's more than 1/3 the cost of the system to buy an complete additional controller. That's just OUTRAGEOUS and turns me away from not only early adopting, but adopting at all.
I'm not spending $410.00 + tax on this system to play multiplayer, only to realize that I haven't even picked out a game yet.
If I'm not sold at launch, then I'll just have to re-evaluate at Xmas time.
Even Wii U sold well at launch. What I meant was there will be plenty of early adopters. After that, it could go either way. Once the early adopter wave passes, will everyone else accept those prices?

I get what you mean though. I find the peripheral prices to be beyond outrageous. I was ready to buy two Pro Controllers for Mario Kart and Super Smash Bros. until Nintendo announced it'd be $70. I probably won't buy one until there's a sale. I have Switch preordered on Amazon, but I wouldn't be upset if I wasn't guaranteed one on launch day. It also depends on when Apple announces new iMacs. If it's released around March, I may put Switch on hold. That's disappointing to me. While I like Switch and the upcoming games, the unveiling wasn't a homerun. If given the choice, I'd pick something else. I don't know if I'm explaining this well. Like I want one, but I don't want and I won't go out of my way. The price gouging is that much of a turn off for me because otherwise, I think everything else ranges from decent to genuinely great.

I hope the English voice acting is more subdued. Zelda crying in the trailer is exactly what I hate about a lot of Japanese voice acting in anime. It's just too much and comes off as melodramatic.

The peripheral prices won't hurt launch window due to the nature of early adopters. It's still a dick move that hurts overall consumer confidence and trust, things Nintendo can't afford to take lightly after Wii U flopped.
Does anyone know what is new about the rumble that Nintendo is calling it HD rumble?
is it just because they have rumble in each palm?is there something new and  unique about it? haptics inside?

and what about the batteries in the joycons and the pro controller?
anyone know anything about that?

I've heard 20+ hours on the joycons. Not sure on the pro con though.
1. I've read haptic feedback, but I don't think it has been confirmed anywhere.

2. Joy-Con battery life is 20 hours, Pro Controller battery life is 40 hours.

Let's be brutally honest.
Damn, I thought I was.
as for the bolded text... I'll just assume that wasn't a directed comment, but a general statement made in frustration of the obvious price gouging.
Not directed at you anyway...
Controllers are looking to be very expensive.  Like getting a second set on Joycons and the grip for it will cost you another $110!!  Might as well be a Wii U Gamepad at that price and mostly for motion control nonsense that the world lost interest in five years ago.
Seriously, people still believe this and bring it up regularly. Everything about that is ignorant. Nearly two generations removed from Wii, it's absurd that people have such an ax to grind against motion controls that they're still blaming motion controls for all manner of ills in the world.

so what exactly are the joycons?
anyone have the details of the tech in the joycons?
anyone have the details of the tech in the dock?

I'm just looking for any justification of the mark up on the pricing. I have no idea of what we are getting included inside all the plastic.
The right Joy-Con is basically a Wii Remote Plus with a lithium ion battery, NFC reader, and improved rumble and IR sensor. The left Joy-Con is the right Joy-Con without the IR sensor and NFC reader. Sold separately, Joy-Cons include the wrist strap slider that also feature larger SL and SR. Neither has a speaker so that's one thing not carried over from the Wii Remote.

The dock is mainly an HDMI pass through. It includes USB Type-C which charges the Switch console, two USB 2.0 on the side because Nintendo wanted to save three cents, and one USB 3.0 in the back with the HDMI and AC adapter ports. Seriously, that's all, and Nintendo is charging $89.99.

If you're one of those ignorant cunts who still thinks motion controls is driving up the cost on anything, you're wrong. It isn't. That technology was less than $10 over half a decade ago so you imagine it's a pittance in 2017. The only justification for the price is "Nintendo likes money."

I imagine developers won't handle the games differently, and you can only play always online games when online. That isn't meant to sound snarky. If you buy a game with an online requirement, you're either connected at least some of the time or you didn't read the box. I think those games still work fine on Switch.

I want Overwatch ported to Switch but only if I can buy a Gremlin D.Va Amiibo.

Resident Evil 7 would be nice so I don't have to buy a PS4.

Subtract $50 from the dock, $30 from every controller, and $20 for the Joycon Grip and those prices suddenly become a lot more reasonable while still providing Nintendo with profits on each item. The dock is an HDMI pass through that still has USB 2.0 for some reason. This is a huge missed opportunity for Nintendo. It had a perfect opportunity to change the rules and force consumers to rethink how it views video game hardware. Nintendo should be positioning itself as an alternative. One way it could have done so by lowering the price of entry. Instead of making a profit by selling a few things for a lot of money, it could make a profit by selling a lot of things for less money. For hardware that can connect to eight controllers, setting the cost of controllers so high doesn't particularly make a lot of sense.

Nintendo obviously wants to make money. However, if making money was ever the impetus for online services, it would have charged a subscription fee all the way back on DS. I think Nintendo viewed online as a simple feature so it offered it for free. Then, the realization set in that having online and doing it well were entirely different things. Servers and maintenance cost money. The no frills connectivity for online matches that Nintendo has offered for over a decade probably wasn't setting the company back a ton. Eurogamer ran an article a few years ago wherein a developer stated:
At some point in this conversation we were informed that it was no good referencing Live and PSN as nobody in [Nintendo's] development teams used those systems (!) so could we provide more detailed explanations for them? My only thought after this call was that they were struggling - badly - with the networking side as it was far more complicated than they anticipated. They were trying to play catch-up with the rival systems, but without the years of experience to back it up.
I'd imagine once Nintendo finally researched this and decided to expand its online features, it realized it couldn't realistically offer a robust online service without charging.

I've played very few games online on my own hardware. Mop it up and I played Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D for a couple weeks a few years ago, and that was the most I played a single game online ever. Regardless of Switch's subscription fee, I can probably pass. I doubt I'd use it enough to justify it.

I preordered Nintendo Switch and The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild on Amazon. I think I can hold off on I am Setsuna since I probably won't play it right away.

Pricing will dictate how well this is received. Free is obviously ideal. I think most people can live with $20 a year. Same as Xbox Live and PlayStation Plus, get the **** out of here. Nintendo is starting at a deficit because its online infrastructure has never been great, and it won't have as much content as One and PS4. Considering the epic nickel and diming Nintendo is pulling with Switch peripherals, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Switch's online service exceeds the cost of Xbox Live and PlayStation Plus.

Oh, they're just ripping us off?  I guess that's okay then.
I'm not excusing Nintendo for price gouging. I don't like overpaying regardless of whether I'm aware of it. I'm merely pointing out that you're objectively wrong that motion controls are the reason why the controllers are so expensive. The only reason I bring this up is because you keep implying this is a Nintendo problem by continually bringing up motion controls when this issue is industry-wide. It's easier for hardware manufacturers to make money on peripherals since they're essential. Consumers can't play without an input device.
Nintendo showed up detecting ice cubes in the rumble and that's neat and all but you figure after last gen that they would realize that nifty tech is nifty but no one will pay for it.
The ice cube segment isn't something I think Nintendo should have spent as much time on. However, rumble in Nintendo controllers has been mediocre for a few generations now. Nintendo introduced the Rumble Pak then never really advanced the technology so I'm glad it's doing something to improve that.
The selling point of the Switch is that it's a portable console.  There that's it.  Rehashed Wii concepts in the joy con are not the selling point so they should strip out unessential features to improve both the price and battery life.  Those controllers should be cheaper and if that means stripping out features then they should do it.  And if the tech is all affordable and they're just ripping us off then they should smarten up and cut that out as well.
Personally, I don't want to use the Joycon controllers, but I'm willing to admit it's a good solution to one of the biggest problems of handheld gaming: multiplayer. The features aren't inherently expensive though. Nintendo like Sony and Microsoft would rather make say, $50 per controller than $30. They all betting on perceived value. For me, it's even worse. I know I'm overpaying, but I'm going to buy it anyway because third party controllers are generally terrible.

TalkBack / Re: 1-2-Switch Announced
« on: January 12, 2017, 10:51:13 PM »
If you're not interested in 1-2 Switch, why are you even checking out the website? Did you really go out of your way just to trash the ga- you know what? I'm going to stop questioning this.

This is still a day one purchase for me if I can get one. I'll check Best Buy for pre-orders and stand in line on launch day if I can't (unless the line is bananas), but I won't kick an old lady to the ground to get one at launch. I just do that recreationally.

I get the impression Nintendo made Switch region free because region locking never made sense to begin with. Additionally, it created a console that can be taken anywhere. Region locking especially doesn't make sense on Switch.

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