Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 04, 2005, 05:48:12 PM
Post by: RABicle on October 04, 2005, 09:03:52 PM
Post by: Dasmos on October 05, 2005, 01:08:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RABicle
Worst show ever.
If not worst close to it. Too boring for my tastes.
Post by: wandering on October 05, 2005, 04:17:13 AM
Though I've only seen little bits of the show - I have a general policy never to watch a TV show where you have to watch every episode, at least not on TV. Don't like the tube to tie me down so much. So I may change my mind after I rent the DVDs.
Post by: Artimus on October 05, 2005, 06:28:27 AM
Yeah, see, this is why we get crap like CSI: DeMoines and Law and Order: Petti-Crimes. Serial television is the best television, period. There's nothing like it! And with DVD it's better than ever.
Lost is probably the best teleivison show on the air (or Arrested Development, which also requires attentive viewing). There is the occasional filler epiosde (last week) but even those are entertaining. But it's by far the most compelling thing on TV not to mention the exceptional acting and brilliant technical work.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 05, 2005, 06:45:58 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on October 05, 2005, 07:47:43 AM
Post by: Artimus on October 05, 2005, 08:00:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nile Boogie
WHOA HORSEY, WHOA. Now I like Lost, I like it a lot. It has a great sense of mystery and suspense all around it. But anybody who has been anywhere knows that the best show on Television is "24". I thank you in advance not to tarnish these boards with your slothful Tom Foolery. Lost is pretty good though.
Lost hasn't started repeating itself just with a different baddie yet
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 05, 2005, 08:31:02 AM
Lost > AD > all.
Post by: RABicle on October 05, 2005, 09:14:40 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on October 05, 2005, 10:35:59 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 05, 2005, 01:28:00 PM
More like Arrested Development is probably a close first.
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 05, 2005, 01:42:48 PM
I mean, come on!
Post by: Artimus on October 05, 2005, 01:50:19 PM
Post by: wandering on October 05, 2005, 04:12:00 PM
Well, I love serial fiction... but I disagree: the best television tends not to be serial. Cowboy Bebop, Star Trek, The Simpsons, Mystery Science Theatre, The Daily Show, Northern Exposure....the list goes on and on.
In any case, the problem with serial television, even if it's good, is that, on TV, it's absolutley not worth it for me to base my schedule around my entertainment instead of the other way around....ESPECIALLY when that entertainment consists of 20% annoying sales pitch. But, on dvd, I'll rent a well-regarded tv show and discover that I've just wasted hours upon hours of my life on a moderatley entertaining drawn-out drama, when I could've picked something far better from the pool of thousands of absolutley amazing pieces of entertainment that've been produced in the last 100 years of cinema.
So, yeah, in conclusion, I hate television.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 05, 2005, 05:46:52 PM
And Jin, that Korean b*stard, he knows English!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 05, 2005, 06:05:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
In any case, the problem with serial television, even if it's good, is that, on TV, it's absolutley not worth it for me to base my schedule around my entertainment instead of the other way around....ESPECIALLY when that entertainment consists of 20% annoying sales pitch. But, on dvd, I'll rent a well-regarded tv show and discover that I've just wasted hours upon hours of my life on a moderatley entertaining drawn-out drama, when I could've picked something far better from the pool of thousands of absolutley amazing pieces of entertainment that've been produced in the last 100 years of cinema.
So, yeah, in conclusion, I hate television.
you should step into the future and invest in DVR or TiVO, I watch my shows when I want to, not when they tell me to, and I can skip all of the commercials, pause and rewind when ever I want.
DVR is the sh!t, you gotta get it!
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 05, 2005, 07:16:13 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 05, 2005, 07:19:14 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on October 05, 2005, 08:34:43 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 06, 2005, 06:08:47 AM
Gray's Anatomy isn't half bad either...
But last night's Lost really screwed with my head man, it messed me up bad.
Post by: Artimus on October 06, 2005, 06:52:38 AM
Post by: Artimus on October 06, 2005, 06:54:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
What? The third Arrested Development episode this season is by far my favorite of the three. Absolutely hysterical.
No comparison to the premiere.
Post by: Artimus on October 06, 2005, 06:57:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Well, I love serial fiction... but I disagree: the best television tends not to be serial. Cowboy Bebop, Star Trek, The Simpsons, Mystery Science Theatre, The Daily Show, Northern Exposure....the list goes on and on.
But of those shows only The Simpsons is truly episodic. Daily Show and MST3K aren't fiction, Star Trek is very very very hit or miss depending on the show or season, Cowboy Bebop at the very least contains large overarching plots and Northern Exposure is very much serialized, just not continuously. Episodic television is CSI, E.R. (though it's half and half), Law and Order, etc. Shows with a 'case of the week'. I'd exclude sitcoms from my comment because their plots aren't usually their focus. The most rewarding dramas are usually serialized.
Post by: vudu on October 06, 2005, 09:27:50 AM
QuoteAD has gone downhill a lot since about halfway through the second season. It's one of the three shows I watch on a regular basis, but it's lost the magic of the original episodes.
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
" Arrested Development is probably a close second."
More like Arrested Development is probably a close first.
And what's up with Buster only having like 3 minutes of camera time in all three episodes of this season (combined)?
Post by: wandering on October 06, 2005, 10:03:55 AM
Quote
you should step into the future and invest in DVR or TiVO
Yeah, you're right. I'd probably watch shows like 'Lost' if I had something like TiVo.
Quote
But of those shows only The Simpsons is truly episodic. Daily Show and MST3K aren't fiction, Star Trek is very very very hit or miss depending on the show or season, Cowboy Bebop at the very least contains large overarching plots and Northern Exposure is very much serialized, just not continuously.
eh - I'd call all of them episodic. Bebop was all about the bounty of the week, and while it had an overarching plot, it was specifically designed so that each episode stands on its own. Northern exposure similarly exists on a continuum of sorts, characters change as the series goes on and what not, but each episode has it's own plot and stands alone. Also, Star Trek is only hit-or-miss if you count Voyager and Enterprise. And MST3K isn't fiction?
Sorry, I'm completely derailing your guys' thread. Please, carry on.
Post by: Toruresu on October 06, 2005, 10:05:57 AM
Stargate SG-1
Post by: IceCold on October 06, 2005, 09:23:15 PM
QuoteTell that to Michael Hurwitz...
Lost is interesting....on the one hand, I'm glad to see american audiences are becoming increasingly receptive to complex, drawn out stroylines.
Post by: Nephilim on October 07, 2005, 02:18:39 AM
Iv heard there not showing it in canda, which is wacked
Post by: nickmitch on October 07, 2005, 04:00:27 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 13, 2005, 03:42:21 AM
Walt's picture was on the "Missing" section of the milk carton Hurley drank from."
Post by: Nile Boogie on October 13, 2005, 06:38:20 PM
Post by: RABicle on October 13, 2005, 07:33:51 PM
Post by: Artimus on October 13, 2005, 08:37:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nile Boogie
So since its the MLB playoffs I missed Lost yesterday. So I come home from work thursday evening to find such a wonderful gift from Apple. iTunes 6.0, not only lets you download music but now I can download all the episodes of Lost I missed for a small fee ($1.99). I don't watch enough Tv to invest in a Tivo or DVR hell I don't even have cable so this is perfect for me. And it lets you transfer to to he new iPod Video (which I must have). Check it out!!!
What is the resolution/quality of the download? Is it HD? I definitely won't be paying Apple. I already watch the show with commercials and own the Season 1 DVD (and will buy 2) so I'm not paying for it twice. I'll download the episodes through torrents for any rewatching purposes until the DVD is out.
Post by: NotRimmer on October 15, 2005, 12:54:15 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 15, 2005, 02:59:35 PM
Post by: wandering on October 15, 2005, 11:46:02 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 16, 2005, 06:00:45 AM
Post by: Artimus on October 16, 2005, 09:04:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
It's funny how I'm the only one in this thread still talking about Lost.
You're talking about The Office.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 16, 2005, 09:39:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
It's funny how I'm the only one in this thread who still cares about Lost.
Fixed on account of Artimus being a smartass.
Post by: Artimus on October 16, 2005, 11:17:15 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 16, 2005, 11:59:41 AM
Post by: RABicle on October 16, 2005, 05:26:22 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 20, 2005, 02:08:11 AM
Post by: Artimus on October 20, 2005, 12:25:03 PM
I'm very mad they pushed back the next episode ANOTHER week. Now we have two without! Though if the rumours are true 'huge' will just be the beginning of describing it!
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 20, 2005, 12:46:17 PM
And they're not rumors...it was confirmed in the preview following the episode. Someone will be dying next episode.
HUGE SPOILER:
Tis Shannon, tis. But in the preview she was making out HARD with Sayid.
Post by: Artimus on October 20, 2005, 01:31:36 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 31, 2005, 03:48:11 PM
Go to oceanicflight815.com (an ABC-owned site that's not much of a secret anymore). Not only are there tons of Easter Eggs, but get rid of some of the toolbars at the top of your browser to extend your window and you'll be able to see a barcode at the bottom. Click on it and type "the island is waiting." One page of the script for the next episode? WACHA. It's weird. Walt's a zombie. o_o
Post by: Don'tHate742 on October 31, 2005, 04:30:14 PM
meh...
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 01, 2005, 02:14:41 AM
South Park's recently trying to focus more on the vulgarity than the actual substance.
Simpsons...very meh-ish as of late, but still some good episodes scattered around.
Lost...greatness.
Oh, and apparently that barcode thing doesn't work anymore, I'll try to get a screen of the script and post it.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2005, 08:04:08 AM
Does anyone else not like the Daily Show? I mean, am I the only one who doesn't find Jon Stewart even remotely funny. He says something bordering on the other side of clever, far from actually humorous, and makes a funny face. THAT IS NOT A JOKE YOU GUYS.
Also, does anyone else find the Colbert Report to be infinitely funnier?
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 01, 2005, 12:41:06 PM
Russel Peters? Anyone seen him? The Indian guy. Funniest man alive. Search him on Google. Hella funny.
Post by: IceCold on November 01, 2005, 08:58:05 PM
It's Russell if anyone searches..
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 02, 2005, 11:21:42 AM
Post by: nickmitch on November 02, 2005, 09:26:07 PM
At first I didn't have high expectations but it turned out to be great.
I still watch the Daily Show, mostly because I don't like regular news.
Post by: wandering on November 03, 2005, 11:12:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Does anyone else not like the Daily Show? I mean, am I the only one who doesn't find Jon Stewart even remotely funny. He says something bordering on the other side of clever, far from actually humorous, and makes a funny face. THAT IS NOT A JOKE YOU GUYS.
Also, does anyone else find the Colbert Report to be infinitely funnier?
Jon isn't supposed to be that funny - he's the straight man. The politicians and the show's fake reporters provide the humor. In fact, that's why I don't like the Colbert Report as much. Colbert is funny, but after 30 minutes of his off-the-wall goofiness with absolutley no anchor of sanity, sometimes I feel like there's just too much Colbert there.
Wait.....did I just say too much Colbert? HAVE I GONE MAD?
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate
What ever happened to Family Guy, South Park, or Simpsons being on the top of everyone's list?
They all started sucking?
The real question is, why don't more people like American Dad?
Post by: vudu on November 04, 2005, 09:46:55 AM
QuoteBecause American Dad is the worst cartoon ever (not counting Squid-Billies).
The real question is, why don't more people like American Dad?
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 04, 2005, 10:36:25 AM
And the answer is, people are stupid. Just ask Manny Calavera.
Post by: Artimus on November 04, 2005, 11:15:46 AM
Post by: vudu on November 04, 2005, 11:54:58 AM
And I hear they've put new episodes on hold because Jason Bateman just had throat surgery less than a week ago.
Post by: Artimus on November 04, 2005, 01:24:36 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 04, 2005, 02:13:14 PM
Post by: wandering on November 05, 2005, 07:04:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Because American Dad is the worst cartoon ever (not counting Squid-Billies).
Aw, c'mon. Any series with Patrick Stewart as star can't be considered the worst ever.
.....so. Anyway. Pretty good tv viewing tonight, eh? Live West Wing debate. Boondocks premeire. Yep. Anybody else catch them?
Post by: vudu on November 07, 2005, 08:55:05 AM
I really liked the first year or so of the comic. It started going downhill really fast about the time they introducted the character Caesar.
Post by: ThePerm on December 26, 2005, 11:53:42 AM
Post by: ThePerm on December 26, 2005, 07:00:02 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 26, 2005, 07:24:18 PM
Have you seen the newest episode? Michael, YOU DEAD, SON!
Post by: ThePerm on December 26, 2005, 09:44:10 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 27, 2005, 07:55:50 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 04, 2006, 01:14:13 PM
Finally, a Mr. Eko episode. That guy's almost as badass as Reggie.
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on January 04, 2006, 06:10:26 PM
Also, you guys all know about these sites, right?:
The Hanso Foundation Life Extensions Project
Global Health Organization warning (Password is Copenhagen)
Click on the picture of Hanzo, then wait for another fax.
Enjoy ;] (Though I'd be surprised if you guys didn't know about that, its pretty old now)
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 05, 2006, 02:35:09 AM
I noticed Eko's a hardcore Christian before the episode promo. He's the one who found the bible in the hatch and he took that vow of silence. And he's the one who said he would pray for everyone who was missing and stufff.
(and yeah I've seen all that lol)
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on January 05, 2006, 06:09:26 AM
Here's the King James version of the 23rd Psalm, as that one is probably more applicable here, despite the fact that it is a translation (that they took some artistic liberties with):
A psalm of David:
The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name' sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil:
For thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies;
Thou annointest my head with oil;
My cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.
Apparently, this is known as "The Lord's Prayer", but I have no idea what the significance of that is. The English words sound familiar. All I know is that it's very beautiful in the Hebrew, and that Orthodox Jews say it (usually) twice a week - Friday night and Saturday morning, times of joy I might add.
EDIT: After further research (google), I've found that people read it out loud in times of grief (at funerals, for example.) Weird twist.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 05, 2006, 11:39:58 AM
Post by: ThePerm on January 05, 2006, 07:59:35 PM
though Theres Something About Mary was hillarious
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on January 05, 2006, 08:27:32 PM
Maybe the significance is in the content of the Mary; maybe the heroin leads to the 'valley overshadowed by death'.
Post by: ThePerm on January 05, 2006, 09:10:27 PM
4 is twice 8
16 is twice 8
15 is one less then 16
23 is a psalm(and probably the most quoted because "as i walk through the valley of the shadow of death" sounds really badass)
23 is 32 backwards which is 10 less then 43
32 is twice 16
42 is the answer to all the universe
all the numbers add up to 108 which is the interval number for the amount of times they have to use the computer
hurly entered in gate 23
23 is a telegraphers line meaning line break
The 23 Enigma is a belief that the number 23 is of particular or unusual significance, especially in relation to disasters.
42-23-16-15-8-4 =24. 24*2 = 48, the number of survivors
and 24 is 42 backwards
i know none of this means anything, but theres numerical logic to everything.. Even unintentional things
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 06, 2006, 05:37:15 PM
The monster, who's been absent this season entirely, will make an appearance in The 23rd Psalm. Also, Eko is connected to the dead Nigerian priest in the jungle and the drug plane.
EDIT: New episode information has been released! Let speculation begin:
Season 2 Ep 11 - The Hunting Party (JACK)
Jack, Locke and Sawyer pursue a determined Michael after he heads into the jungle toward the dreaded Others in search of Walt. Meanwhile, Sun has a surprising reaction to Jin's desire to join the search party, and Hurley and Charlie commiserate over the age-old conundrum of "what women want."
Promo Pics for The Hunting Party, not that many.
Season 2 Ep 12 - Fire+Water (Charlie)
When Charlie's vividly surreal dreams lead him to believe Claire's baby, Aaron, is in danger, Locke suspects Charlie may be using again. Meanwhile, Sawyer encourages Hurley to act on his attraction to Libby.
Hurley and Libby!? o_o This is such a "WTF ROSE IS MARRIED TO A WHITE GUY" moment.
Once again, I'm not Christian, but I was reading another Lost forum and apparently both of these names have significance to the Bible. Not sure about Ep 11, but Fire and Water is how the world is supposedly going to end. Plus, I didn't notice this before, but Revelation? That's another book in Christianity as well, no?
And the hardcore Christian Mr. Eko (who is apparently a priest, according to promo pics from Fire+Water, he baptises Aaron, and oddly enough, apparently Claire as well) is holding a Buddhist book in one of the promo pictures. "The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin."
This show is wild. Finally my six week longing will be fulfilled on Wednesday.
Promo Pics for Fire+Water. WTF is everyone wearing?
And I have tidbits of info through Ep 15.
Season 2 Ep 13 - Name yet to be revealed (RUMOR: LOCKE)
Season 2 Ep 14 - One of Them (SAYID)
Season 2 Ep 15 - Maternity Leave (No news on who the central character is, but a new character joins the cast in this episode, Jessica, the first teenaged main character)
And there's more. Evageline Lilly, who plays Kate, is a guest on TRL this Wednesday as well as Jimmy Kimmel on the 12th. Dominic Monahgan, Charlie, is appearing on the Ellen Degeneres Show on Wednesday and Jimmy Kimmel on the 9th. And of course, most importantly, the super badass Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje, Mr. Eko, is appearing on Jimmy Kimmel on the 18th.
A little bit of a side note...I just bought Lost Chronicles, a truly great book, a must have for Lost fans...apparently, Jack was scheduled to die at the end of the first episode. o_o
Oh, one last thing. I hope none of you guys live in Arkansas...because if you are, thanks to College Basketball, you're not going to get to see Revelation till Thursday morning and The 23rd Psalm till Friday.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 11, 2006, 02:45:30 AM
Post by: ThePerm on January 11, 2006, 01:05:58 PM
Post by: ThePerm on January 11, 2006, 05:30:49 PM
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on January 11, 2006, 05:53:34 PM
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on January 12, 2006, 08:40:15 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 18, 2006, 12:51:02 PM
Last week's episode was a terrific way to get the season rolling again after the six-week hiatus and I can only hope that this week's is just as good (though I'll admit the synopsis I posted on page 4 of this thread isn't all too exciting). What I'm really looking foward to is next week's episode, looks to be a big one.
What I'm wondering right now is...is Charlie using? Was that secret stash supposed to signify that? Or is he just keeping the heroin for no real reason?
EDIT: Woah, never mind. Since I'm such a terrible person I just looked at some spoilers for tonight's episode, and apparently, it involves a chilling return. Desmond? Well whoever's making the return is supposed to reveal whether or not it was actually Walt on the other side of that computer message Plus the problems that struck Jack and Sarah's relationship and why they creates problems for any romance with Kate (awwwww, I wanted more Kate/Jack shower scenes) are supposed to be revealed tonight.
Post by: ThePerm on January 18, 2006, 06:51:23 PM
Jack: How long would it take to train an army?
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 19, 2006, 11:08:05 AM
So yeah, my Desmond guess was off. But the spoiler I read said that whoever made the "chilling return" was supposed to reveal whether or not Walt was the one at the computer, but the only mention of Walt was "he's fine."
Post by: ThePerm on January 19, 2006, 12:02:50 PM
"sawyer: Zeke, we aint through yet."
Is why I called him Zeke. He's credited as Mr. Friendly. Zeke is what i'll be calling him till his real name comes u p. Its prolly one of Sawyer's pet names.
He looks like a zeke being a burly mountain man and all.
Post by: Artimus on January 19, 2006, 01:17:35 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 19, 2006, 03:13:15 PM
I heard that as of next episode, Michael's getting the Walt treatment (he's not being credited as a main character). That means he's going to have a long term absence, which really sucks. I don't want any side stories, I want to know wtf happened to Walt.
Post by: ThePerm on January 19, 2006, 04:52:37 PM
i always wondered that..."why do they always go out in small groups?"
if i were on the island I'd have made my own gun by now, and a dart gun.
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on January 21, 2006, 02:15:02 PM
Post by: ThePerm on January 25, 2006, 11:27:36 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 25, 2006, 01:32:53 PM
I got my DVR set.
EDIT: Oh, and tonight's episode is supposedly a minute longer than usual. Not like a minute's a big deal, I'm just saying for the sake of the setting on your VCR.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 25, 2006, 04:53:36 PM
Post by: ThePerm on January 25, 2006, 04:59:06 PM
Post by: Artimus on January 25, 2006, 05:39:44 PM
For a Lost episode it was so-so.
For your average TV drama episode it was great.
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 25, 2006, 07:08:32 PM
That said, I thought this was one of the better new Lost episodes... didn't compare to Mr.Eko's though.
And Arrested Development is still the better show by a long shot.
Post by: Plugabugz on January 26, 2006, 07:32:14 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 26, 2006, 11:22:10 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on February 01, 2006, 11:13:36 AM
Post by: ThePerm on February 01, 2006, 04:38:44 PM
also libby has been accused of being a habitual liar...she may not be a shrink.........
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on February 08, 2006, 05:06:11 PM
Post by: ThePerm on February 10, 2006, 01:07:49 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on February 10, 2006, 03:17:40 PM
lol sorry bout earlier on aim perm, my cousin raped my computer, you're un-blocked now.
Post by: ThePerm on February 15, 2006, 04:11:58 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on February 15, 2006, 04:15:53 PM
I love Sayid.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 06, 2006, 06:16:22 AM
So some spoilers may be given.
DAVE is the most standalone episode this show has ever had. I think the writers gave us a few interesting character reveals, but most of this episode was about messing with the fans.
They obviously toyed with us about the Island being all a dream, a previous theory...and about the Island being Purgatory. Henry's rant to Locke "Do you think God can see us here?" or something like that.
Finally I believe they are messing with us about the theory of the button. Either one of two things is happening with the button.
1)The button isn't real and it is a psychology experiment. That would mean that somehow the survivors found the one of the least important hatches on the island, and the experiments going on/ or WERE going on with the other hatches are all more important. I really can't get into this theory, though if its true it would fit with the mind games that Lost writers are giving us. (Best mind games since X-Files by the way.)
2) The Button and hatch DO something. We just don't know what yet. Henry could be lying to Locke and he really has pushed the button. Locke's character theme is that he is looking for a friend or family that he can trust, and he is gulliable and can't let things go. Perhaps Henry has gotten to him by staying and saving his life. And now Henry has an ally to manipulate. Remember, he wouldn't have suspected that Sayid would have dug up the grave...who would defile a grave?
The second option is that Henry didn't push the button and it STILL does something or is in the process of doing something and we don't know what it is. This is personally what I believe...and I say we may or may not ever find out if this is true or not.
But too many wierd things are going on with the Island for this one experiment to be as simple as a test to see if a 2 man human team would continue to push a button indefinately. Humans thrive for a purpose in life, and I have no doubt that given the right circumstances that someone told to push a button would create that as their purpose.
Of course...if there is no purpose to it...like Jack said at the end of Season one. We are about to have a Locke problem. And this Locke problem is going to be very big, and very dangerous.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on April 06, 2006, 03:23:31 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 06, 2006, 07:34:06 PM
The show is much like X-Files for every clue and answer it gives the show produces 3 more questions. And although the mysteries seem too great to ever unfold, you also have the since that they are just a few episodes away from revealing everything. Seriously, I believe they could reveal the secrets in a proper way super fast whenever they need to, and it would work.
They won't because toying with the fans is what keeps the show fun and alive.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on April 12, 2006, 12:45:09 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 14, 2006, 05:42:08 AM
Finally Michael is back. I loved his character and Walter.
Will we be getting Walter back at the end of the season?
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on April 14, 2006, 04:51:39 PM
Post by: BigJim on April 15, 2006, 12:16:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
And it was.
Finally Michael is back. I loved his character and Walter.
Will we be getting Walter back at the end of the season?
I wonder.
The rumor is that Walt has gone through a growth spurt and his voice is changing, which would complicate things since it's only been "2 months". I guess you could blame it on the island, but that's kinda weak.
Post by: Plugabugz on April 15, 2006, 01:40:31 AM
Season 2 hasn't even started here.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 15, 2006, 07:19:32 AM
We forget that people are behind us.
BigJim: They could do one of two things...find another actor for Walt. Or just go with the same actor and remind everyone "Hey its TV stuff like this happens when using child actors...and don't take us TOO SERIOUSLY anyway."
I don't want Walt and Michael's story to end. There is too much mystery to it, and too much left unanswered...if Walt doesn't return.
I have heard alot of people complain that Season 2 was mostly filler. I remember them taking 3 episodes just to really explore and explain the hatch and it drove me crazy at first. But then I realized...this show isn't about the island its about the people. And the writers are going a great job of continually building up character interaction and drama in subtle ways.
For instance. People thought the Jack and Sawyer poker scene was weak. But in truth it points out the rivalry between the two. Sawyer conned everyone into the guns and medicine and now Jack was getting him back. Another interesting twist is that although Sawyer says he is a bad guy and he definately does evil things...NO BODY IS AFRAID OF HIM. He either really isn't that bad or people know how to deal with him and that makes him a nonissue. And guess what Sawyer sees that and HATES it. He wants to matter and be important.
This season is slow, but great. Tons of things are answered about the island and about the castaways...and it has been slowly building to a huge climatic season finale. Something season one never did. It was great throughout, but I never felt it was building up to something. The season finale could have been a regular episode.
Post by: BigJim on April 15, 2006, 07:03:57 PM
)The storytelling is still good, but the show lacks continuity this season. Most cliffhangers don't lead into the next episode. They're dropped indefinitely and eventually come back to it. For example, the monster. Never heard from or even talked about again. What about the army they're building? We got Libby's surprise at the end of Hurley's episode, but that wasn't carried over. Like the other things, it's dropped until some random episode in the future.
I understand that answers should create new questions, but the gaps in continuity accomplish it in a way I find annoying rather than "must tune in next week." The stories themselves are good but I don't like stuff being dropped for half the season.
There's been Henry Gale for the last several weeks, which is good. And it looks like the last 5 episodes will build up to something cool.
Still, I tune in.
Glad to see Michael's back.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 16, 2006, 01:06:40 PM
The army was put on back burner, because of Henry. Hey when you have caught a potential other then you need to get information from them...
Besides the army comment was just a line Ana Lucia talked about and never had real support. I don't think even Jack supported it...he was just upset that Sun (One of the few nurturing figures on the island) was hurt. And when everyone saw they were played by Jack the idea for an army kinda died...along with the firearms to keep it going.
But now Michael is back with locations to where the others are and news how to fight them. The last four episodes could be the fabled war with the others that we assumed would occur.
I don't plot devices are being dropped I think they are being seeded. And seeds need time to grow or they will die quickly.
The pacing of this show is great, because it "feels" right.
Post by: BigJim on April 16, 2006, 11:41:27 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 16, 2006, 11:59:53 PM
)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 17, 2006, 05:49:17 AM
I can't get enough of it. You can watch the show several times and pick up more and more stuff that you missed. This is especially true about season one.
Season two is different...it has all of those elements again, but so much more is going on with the survivors it is really is hard to keep up. Everyone is doing something different, and just like trying to keep up with 20 something survivors its difficult to put everything into place.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on April 17, 2006, 02:42:43 PM
Post by: ThePerm on May 03, 2006, 07:09:57 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 03, 2006, 08:13:49 PM
Post by: ThePerm on May 05, 2006, 09:48:44 AM
Post by: SixthAngel on May 13, 2006, 10:53:32 PM
Too many coincidences and dreams for Locke and everyone to just be there for no reason. I think that the button really does do something incredibly important and that is why people observed it being pushed or that pushing the button will lead Locke and co. to what is really important.
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on May 24, 2006, 06:53:53 PM
Just I thought the show was starting to go downhill...wow, what a comeback. I didn't know of the existence of http://www.valenzettifoundation.org/, or Bad Twin, or anything! Still the best show on TV. Won't leave any spoilers here just yet...suffice it to say, if you've missed it, find your way to a torrent site! Insanely great comeback.
Post by: MattVDB on May 24, 2006, 09:51:46 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 24, 2006, 11:35:12 PM
Questions that I have that weren't addressed:
What the hell is the security system?
who the hell are the "others" aka "hostiles" aka "the good guys"?
what the hell is the Dharma Initiative really about?
How do they know who everyone is?
why do they only want certain people?
how did a pirate ship get in the middle of the island
if the magnetic force is soo strong, how did they manage to build a steel and concrete bunker around it?
why set up a test to push the button? if it was so important why not automate it?
why set up a "listening post" to observe the button pushers?
why kidnap Claire and then try to steal her baby?
how is it that an island that big can not be found by satellite?
what is the sickness that was supposedly going around? Roseau mentions it alot.
why would the "others" need costumes and fake beards?
what caused the very specific dreams that Loc and Echo had?
ahhhh, there are so many more questions that will probably never be explained, but thats probably better because everytime tey try to explain something it only makes room for more questions.
New questions that need answers:
they say they found it, but what exactly were they looking for?
what exactly would cause the sky to change color like that?
what exactly would create such a noise.
Why would the "others" worry about real names or appearances?
why can't the survivors venture to the other side of the island?
why have they set-up a fake camp and fake bunker?
what did they do to Micheal's son?
what the hell was that bird, and why did it sound like it called out Hurley's name?
*I kinda figured out why the plane crashed a while ago but it was only a hunched that is now confirmed
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 25, 2006, 05:21:11 AM
Don't forget they also pretty much finished Michael and Walt's story on the Island. They are gone.
I don't see this season finale as the finishing of a great storyarc and season...but the midpoint of a story arc leading into season three.
We know that the others have Jack, Kate, and Sawyer near a beach and that is where Sayid basically is. I have a feeling we are opening up season three with Rambo rescue mission. Final answers about the hatch, and then we will be moving on.
A friend of mine believes season three will be more supernatural again, since season two was mostly scientific, and I think it is a good direction.
The show finale was amazing, and truly left you questioning everything you saw.
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on May 27, 2006, 04:52:43 PM
Post by: Syl on May 27, 2006, 05:49:03 PM
Season 1 had a lot more scary sounds and tree's falling down, however. Lot more "how do we survive" type of thing, and also - anyone remember the caves?
Post by: Nick DiMola on October 04, 2006, 05:56:01 AM
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on October 04, 2006, 11:12:19 AM
Post by: BigJim on October 04, 2006, 02:18:44 PM
6 uninterrupted episodes, then taking off until the spring... then they come back with rest of the season uninterrupted.
The writers said it'd be less mythological and more action. Probably a good thing, too. They kinda lost me when the monster turned out to be a black puff of smoke.
Post by: Nick DiMola on October 04, 2006, 05:12:56 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 05, 2006, 02:01:19 AM
::rant::
What Lost does not need is it to be dumbed down for the ADD people out there that can't stand not being spoon fed answers and don't appreciate the depth of the characters, which I find to be far more interesting than "What is going on" even if that is engaging as well. Lost was built around characters and it should remain about characters, and I would sure hate to see the whiners ruin one of most unique shows EVER because they don't appreciate the dialogue over the answers (and actually makes you think). I would rather see the show cancelled before it becomes what some people want it to be. So I say if you are one of those peoples who dislike it because it "hasn't revealed much in the way of answers" well I would be thrilled if you watched another show and instead turn that show into generic garbage through your complaints (Or maybe it already is, so you don't have to. YOu can be satisfied from the get go). I seen the same thing happen with Smallville where its 2nd and 3rd seasons were more character driven, yet after complaints that have turned it into a more "me happy, have lots of action" type of show.
::end of rant::
Post by: Nick DiMola on October 05, 2006, 07:03:32 AM
In the meantime I will enjoy Prison Break, and hopefully Lost gains back the direction it seemed to lose somewhere down the line.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 05, 2006, 11:16:54 AM
Here is a little snippet:
Quote
Starting with Disc One after some nine months of seeming disappointment with the show, I originally looked at the task of reviewing the show as an unenviable and unenjoyable one. Thankfully, I was wrong; the series plays much better on DVD, where one can watch as much or little as one wants (or has time for), and where the extra features actually expand and explain the conception of the show as it transitions into Season Three. The bonus materials remind fans that there is an actual plan to the show's flow, and that there are forces both creative and technical at work designing the intricate and secretive tales that expand the Lost mythology. This is definitely one of the best TV-to-DVD sets of the year, and a must-have for inveterate and uninitiated Lost fans alike.
Post by: Nick DiMola on October 05, 2006, 12:31:01 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 05, 2006, 12:37:37 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on October 05, 2006, 01:19:01 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 05, 2006, 05:48:28 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 11, 2006, 12:11:45 PM
Post by: BigJim on October 11, 2006, 02:05:06 PM
First episode this season was good for starters. It should be better this time with the new scheduling, too. Jacked for tonight's episode!
Post by: ThePerm on October 11, 2006, 06:14:52 PM
Post by: ThePerm on November 14, 2006, 10:02:55 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 15, 2007, 07:57:03 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on February 28, 2007, 03:41:54 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 28, 2007, 06:39:57 PM
edit: So what was so good about the last episode? I like Hurley too, but still the story just never really seems to move along. Ohhh, yay!!!! Now they have a car!!! and 6 year old stale, flat, warm beer!!!
Now I have more questions.... how did the dog get into the car to steal Rogers arm, and how were the keys still in the hand, since for one: the only open window and therefore access to the inside of the car was the driver side window, and two:why weren't the keys still in the ignition since it would seem obvious that Roger was driving the car when it tipped over and probably died because of the wreck.
Once again, they have managed to raise more questions without answering any. Its a vicious cycle that is losing them viewership.
Post by: Plugabugz on February 28, 2007, 08:59:57 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 28, 2007, 10:17:08 PM
Not sure about the nitpicks about how the dog got the arm, it is quite obvious the island does things in order to get the characters into a particular situation, it isn't "Another" secret especially if you've been watching it. How that guy died is not important, it is what came of his death and how that connects to the characters. Personally I would rather people not watch it if they wish to change the focus from the characters to the "answers".
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on February 28, 2007, 10:18:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Plugabugz
Did Lost come bursting back to justify the 14/15-week gap? No.
Obviously you didn't see Flashes Before Your Eyes or Not in Portland which were both brilliant episodes. These last two have been more to help set up the characters for the prison break to occur.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 28, 2007, 11:06:21 PM
I like Hurley's character along with Sawyer's, but Charlie could pass and I wouldn't care. I don't mind chracter defining episodes with specific plot enhacing flashbacks, but move the freakin story along at a slightly quicker pace, and quit posing so many new questions getting to the answers of the old ones.
The thing with the dog was me nit-picking but its only cause they give me nothing else to focus on other than the little insignificant things going on cause nothing else is really happening. Its great that Hurley found hope and Charlie learned to just live and not worry about death. but it would have been better if we knew they had some other use for the car, or some better motivation to get a car running than to prove some curse of the numbers doesn't exist and that death isn't surrounding him.
I'm not sure what my real problem with the show is other than I'm just starting to not care anymore. They focused too much on the Others when I wanted to see what was happening with the original survivors mixed with the exceptionally long winter break between episodes and them killing off characters because of non-show related incedents all seem to have something to do with it. I wish they didn't kill off Eko, he could've quested on his own like the french chick & I wish they killed Charlie cause he annoys me
I'm not gonna say that Lost should be like Heroes, but they could definately learn a little something from the last episode that aired. We got all the background information that we need through flashbacks and all the while moving the story along(mostly cause the flashbacks were relevant to the story at hand and not some unconnected incedent that is similar to what is going on now).
Lost focuses so much on Character development that they forget most of us are still waiting to find out about the Island and whats actually going on there. The Island itself is a character and there is not enough focus on that character. I jsut realized that this went from a two sentece reply on to a multi paragraph ramble, so I'll just end it here.
the end.
Post by: Plugabugz on February 28, 2007, 11:39:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Plugabugz
Did Lost come bursting back to justify the 14/15-week gap? No.
Obviously you didn't see Flashes Before Your Eyes or Not in Portland which were both brilliant episodes. These last two have been more to help set up the characters for the prison break to occur.
I've seen them both, but not the hurley one yet. They were good episodes, but not earth-shattering enough. If you've been off the air for such a substantial period of time, then you have to come back all guns blazing to re-ignite people's interest. Family Guy, arguably, did that after it's long absence. Lost didn't.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 01, 2007, 03:34:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PlugabugzQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Plugabugz
Did Lost come bursting back to justify the 14/15-week gap? No.
Obviously you didn't see Flashes Before Your Eyes or Not in Portland which were both brilliant episodes. These last two have been more to help set up the characters for the prison break to occur.
I've seen them both, but not the hurley one yet. They were good episodes, but not earth-shattering enough. If you've been off the air for such a substantial period of time, then you have to come back all guns blazing to re-ignite people's interest. Family Guy, arguably, did that after it's long absence. Lost didn't.
Well that definately is your opinion, it is common consensus that both the premier after the break, and the Desmond episode were some of the best Lost episodes in quite some time. Not only that but common consensus is that the Hurley one may have been more filler, but also a light hearted episode that was well done and engaging. I would not be surprised though if the car comes into play later on.
In regards to Lost being like Heroes, they are two different shows with different focuses. Heroes is a great show for what it is, but it is also a show that has way too many characters to know what to do with and so many plotlines to deal with, it can afford to give alot of answers, because it is such an expansive show.
Post by: Ceric on March 01, 2007, 04:30:17 AM
Post by: Plugabugz on March 01, 2007, 09:26:52 AM
Post by: ThePerm on May 14, 2009, 08:47:03 PM
2010, somebody set us up the bomb!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 02, 2010, 02:15:46 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 02, 2010, 03:57:52 PM
Top five Lost characters:
1. Sawyer
2. Sayid
3. Ben Linus
4. Desmond
5. Vincent the Dog
Post by: broodwars on February 02, 2010, 04:02:58 PM
I gotta go clear off my DVR because I don't plan on watching this one right away. I think I will purposely be several weeks behind so that I can watch multiple hours of this in a row and not torture myself by spreading it out.
I'm really tempted to do the same thing as well, since I just had my DVR installed a few days ago. I'm in the middle of rewatching Reboot and I have a fairly extensive anime backlog to work through, and Lost really works better as a marathon show anyway.
Post by: vudu on February 02, 2010, 04:08:38 PM
BTW, this should go without saying, but be sure to use spoiler tags!
Post by: ShyGuy on February 02, 2010, 04:24:55 PM
Post by: broodwars on February 02, 2010, 04:38:07 PM
This is the first time I'm watching a season of Lost on TV instead of DVD or Hulu.
Same here. And it looks like I'll have to watch at least tonight's episode. For some reason, my DVR can't ID ABC or its schedule so I'll have to record this one manually.
Post by: vudu on February 02, 2010, 04:39:47 PM
Post by: Halbred on February 02, 2010, 04:44:44 PM
Ah, the return of Lost. I may well stack a few episodes up on my DVR as well, though I didn't have a problem last season watching week-to-week. As long as I can fast-forward through the commercials, I'm cool.
Post by: vudu on February 02, 2010, 04:47:52 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 02, 2010, 04:57:57 PM
I'm watching it in real time so I can participate in the discussion and speculation as it goes along.
Low five Lost characters:
1. Keamy
2. Claire
3. Michael
4. Fake Locke WTF DID I JUST SAY
5. Charlotte
Post by: vudu on February 02, 2010, 05:01:45 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 02, 2010, 05:14:06 PM
SPOILERS THE NAME OF THE SHOW IS LOST. THIS IMPLIES SOMETHING OH NO IVE RUINED IT ALL BY STATING THE NAME OF THE SHOW SLASH SPOILERS
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 02, 2010, 05:23:11 PM
I don't know who those 2 characters are either.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 02, 2010, 05:24:29 PM
Post by: vudu on February 02, 2010, 05:26:57 PM
But I haven't a clue who the other two are. I'm bad with names. Is Charlotte the cute red head who dies via time travel in season 5?
Post by: ShyGuy on February 02, 2010, 05:34:59 PM
Keamy is the head merc from the freighter who turns extra evil
Charlotte is the annoying red head who dies of time travel
Jack is a doctor who becomes the leader of the Oceanic Flight 815 survivors[/spoilers]
Post by: Halbred on February 02, 2010, 06:03:41 PM
Homoeroticism FT...W?
(Dear Producers of "Lost:" Please cast a curvy, good lookin' chick on the show. We need one. Badly.)
Post by: broodwars on February 02, 2010, 06:21:26 PM
All the good lookin' girls die on this show. First the girl who Hurley fell in love with, then the merc girl, then the redhead. All we've got left is the Asian chick (THANKS, NO) and Kate (too much of a "sporty" body). Meanwhile, on the guy side of things, we've got Sawyer and Jack, both of whom I'd happily sleep with.
Keep in mind that depending on how they move forward from last season's finale, you could see all those dead girls return to the regular cast.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 02, 2010, 06:59:28 PM
Post by: vudu on February 02, 2010, 10:06:43 PM
Nothing happened. Waste of an episode.
Post by: broodwars on February 02, 2010, 10:09:01 PM
WTF
Nothing happened.
In other words, it's a typical Lost episode? :P:
I managed to set my DVR manually, so I haven't watched the episode yet.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 02, 2010, 10:10:30 PM
wait a second, where are you at?
It's not even over yet, it starts at 9pm
Post by: broodwars on February 02, 2010, 10:13:09 PM
2 hours of nothing?
wait a second, where are you at?
It's not even over yet, it starts at 9pm
Crap, it's a two hour premier? I only set my DVR for one hour. I guess I'll catch the episode when it hits my usual TV torrent site.
Post by: vudu on February 02, 2010, 10:13:24 PM
YEAH, I JUST REALIZED IT'S NOT OVER YET. ****. MISSED THE PAST 10 MINUTES.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 02, 2010, 10:13:53 PM
Post by: broodwars on February 02, 2010, 10:17:23 PM
Do any of you have comcast?
Nope. I just have basic Brighthouse cable. My DVR is a program on my computer, with the cable run through it.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 02, 2010, 10:48:51 PM
Do any of you have comcast?
Nope. I just have basic Brighthouse cable. My DVR is a program on my computer, with the cable run through it.
Reason I ask is because Comcast has online On Demand and it looks like it has more content than what on the cable box(except for maybe the movie channels, but I havne't looked too in depth at those yet). They also have online TV Guide and I'm debating on giving my DVR box back once my free DVR promotion ends.
Post by: Stogi on February 02, 2010, 10:55:55 PM
Post by: broodwars on February 02, 2010, 10:58:07 PM
So I've been watching this and basketball and I must say, and maybe it's because this is the first episode I've ever seen, but this is literally one of the worst shows I've ever seen. Not to rag on you guys, but I don't understand the hype at all. Everything about it just screams cheap. To make matters worst, the acting is ridiculously bad (apart from the bald dude). I'm going to continue watching this just because I've spent too much not to finish it; just not looking forward to it.
Dude, seriously, watch the show from the beginning if you're going to watch it at all. I'll agree with you on the quality of the show, but you can't start watching a serialized show in its final season.
Post by: Stogi on February 02, 2010, 11:03:21 PM
Yeah that's not going to happen.
EDIT: I will say this. It was pretty damn cool recognizing some beaches.
Post by: vudu on February 02, 2010, 11:06:39 PM
When's this hit Hulu and/or abc.com? I need to see the 10 minutes I missed.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 02, 2010, 11:50:20 PM
at some point you realize that you are heavily invested time wise and just want to see how it ends to know if they did know what they were doing from the start or did they just make it all up as they went along.
The writers say it's all planned out and they knew what they were doing, but no one believes them. Honestly, I say just skip this show. Do not start watching it until the entire series is done and someone figures what is the best order to actually watch it in.
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on February 02, 2010, 11:55:10 PM
Post by: broodwars on February 03, 2010, 12:15:20 AM
And yes, I am very cynical...especially after having suffered the torture that is most of the last season of Battlestar Galactica.
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on February 03, 2010, 12:24:12 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 03, 2010, 02:23:38 AM
Season 6 Spoilers
What we got answered:
Man in Black/Fake Locke is the Smoke Monster.
Juliet does die, at least in the island reality.
We see the temple and where young Ben was healed.
Jacob is in fact dead
My thoughts on these first two episodes:
Sawyer kicks Jack in the head. Jack deserved it. I liked the alternate reality. Seeing John Locke being Obi-Wan again and talking with Jack, and Jack giving him hope about his spine, that was awesome, made me miss the real John Locke. Richard Alpert and Ben better man up if they plan on fighting back.
New Questions:
Why was the island flat under water in the new reality? Did the explosion sink it?
How are the two realities going to merge? Or are they?
Where does the Smoke Monster consider home? The Temple?
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on February 03, 2010, 09:57:08 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 03, 2010, 11:34:19 AM
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on February 03, 2010, 11:51:26 AM
As with all prior season premieres of this show, we're left at the end desperately seeking more context in which to place what we've just watched. With Season Two it was all "Okay, so THAT'S what's in the Hatch, but what IS it, exactly?" Season Three had us finally understanding that the Others had a little homey neighborhood, but still didn't give us any insight into what they were up to, or who they were. Season Four clued us into the fact that there were more who left the island, but still didn't give us any inkling as to what the Freighties were up to. Then, of course, Season Five kicked our ass and shot us with a flaming arrow.
The point is that I didn't really expect a lot of resolution in "LA X" and of course, I didn't get it. They have 18 more hours to give us that resolution, but last night's episode was entirely about set-up. We finally get to see what's in the Temple, but without any idea as to what the Temple really is. We finally got an answer as to the relationship between Smokey and whatever was wearing Locke's body as a puppet: there is no relationship, they are one and the same. This is something I suspected after last season's "Dead is Dead", when Ben is confronted by "Alex" underneath the Temple wall.
"LA X" had us fearing for the fate of Sayid, but I can't be alone in not having any doubt whatsoever that he would be around, in some form, after the premiere. LOST has never, that I can remember, killed off a major character in the premiere episode, and I think we would have heard if Naveen Andrews had a reduced role this season. What I am curious about, however, is whether or not Sayid Jarrah is still Sayid Jarrah, or if he has been blessed with a new personality, a la "John Locke" from last season. With Jacob dead, I have to wonder if Sayid is now a mouthpiece for Jacob. This makes sense to me because we've seen this already with fake Locke, and on top of that, Sayid Jarrah's story has been told, much like Charlie. There's not much left for Sayid to do on the show besides moan the word "Naaaaahdia" when he's upset.
Of course, I haven't mentioned the biggest surprise with "LA X" yet, that being that all that time we've spent since May wondering if Jack's plan worked has been for naught. It both did, and didn't. I could have sworn that at some point, listening to LOST Podcasts, I remember Damon and Carlton saying that they didn't have any interest in alternate timeline stories, so I was a little surprised to see them use exactly that tactic for this season. Still though, one thing I haven't read much about in the few recaps I've read so far is the fact that we have one "reality" in 2007, and another in 2004. I know it's incredibly unlikely, what with the 2004 "reality" having an underwater resort instead of an island, but I am wondering if these are not alternate realities, but in fact just a three year gap in the same timeline. If not, then how do we account for the missing three years? Eventually these two timelines have got to come together to make one story for the finale, and how's that going to work when Jack is 3 years older in one of those two timelines? Believe it or not, but THAT is my biggest question coming out of "LA X".
Nice to see the return of Boone, Charlie, and Cindy. It's a shame Maggie Grace didn't come back to reprise her role as Shannon, but I'm not really going to lose any sleep over it. The absence of the tailies (Ana Lucia and Eko, notably) and Michael and Walt was felt, and I've yet to decide if it was a storytelling absence or a logistics absence.
I think my favorite scene in the entire episodes might have been between Locke and Jack at the airport, where they have a friendly conversation about John's spinal injury and Jack's father. It's been a long time since we've seen these two have any sort of rapport whatsoever, so I really enjoyed that.
I'm sure I'm missing a lot, but for now I'll wrap this up. This is a show that has taken me on a ride for 5 years, and I'm ready for that ride to come to an exciting conclusion. Even if I don't find out who's making the Dharma food drops, or what the numbers mean, I expect that I'll enjoy this season.
Post by: vudu on February 03, 2010, 01:56:12 PM
"LA X" had us fearing for the fate of Sayid, but I can't be alone in not having any doubt whatsoever that he would be around, in some form, after the premiere. LOST has never, that I can remember, killed off a major character in the premiere episodeAre you forgetting about Juliette dying just a few minutes prior? She was sort of a main character.
What I am curious about, however, is whether or not Sayid Jarrah is still Sayid Jarrah, or if he has been blessed with a new personality, a la "John Locke" from last season. With Jacob dead, I have to wonder if Sayid is now a mouthpiece for Jacob. This makes sense to me because we've seen this already with fake LockeI thought about this, too. One thing to keep in mind, the smoke monster didn't "take over" Locke's body. He just took Locke's form; the body was still out there doing its own thing. Why would Jacob need to possess Sayid's corpse?
Question: What did Miles tell Sawyer that Juliette said to him when he was hunched over her grave? I couldn't understand him.
Post by: Halbred on February 03, 2010, 02:21:26 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 03, 2010, 03:18:31 PM
My guess is the alternate timeline will progress for three years in L.A. and during that time Locke will get healing surgery from Jack and the survivors lives will become intertwined.
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on February 03, 2010, 03:56:56 PM
Are you forgetting about Juliette dying just a few minutes prior? She was sort of a main character.
Fair enough, but I guess I didn't really react to that because it's been known for ages that Elizabeth Mitchell had been signed onto another show.
But yeah, that's a fair point.
Post by: vudu on February 03, 2010, 04:01:49 PM
Fair enough, but I guess I didn't really react to that because it's been known for ages that Elizabeth Mitchell had been signed onto another show.This is why I'm happy I don't pay attention to stuff like that. It lessens the chances of me figuring out anything before "I'm supposed to".
Granted, I was a little ticked off they brought her back from the dead because I couldn't understand how anyone could survive that fall. But I suppose it worked out well enough in the end.
Post by: that Baby guy on February 04, 2010, 08:34:53 AM
The Man in Black/Smoke Monster/Fake Locke is the "good" guy. When you take a look at their actions, as well as the actions of the people that follow them, a lot of things don't add up.
I'll try to do this chronologically:
(Quote tags don't mix inside spoiler tags)
"JACOB: I take it you're here because of the ship.
ENEMY: I am. How did they find the Island?
JACOB: You'll have to ask them when they get here.
ENEMY: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?
JACOB: You are wrong.
ENEMY: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.
ENEMY: Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?
JACOB: Yes.
ENEMY: One of these days, sooner or later... I'm going to find a loophole, my friend.
JACOB: Well, when you do, I'll be right here."
Clearly, the Others are hostile to anyone from off the island they don't bring in themselves... Remember the 1950's jump? While the time-traveling Losties could prove they weren't in clear contention with the Others, they were very aggressive toward a small group of people. Yes, a nuke had just been brought to the island by a different group, but clearly, the Losties weren't in uniform, and were barely armed, despite being formidable.
Then we've got the Dharma Initiative, the Dharma people weren't exactly "Bad" people, were they? Why would the Others go and kill them, why would they be so hostile? If Jacob believes everything that happens before the end is progress, why not do something to keep from that genocide from occurring? But what happens? The Others kill the people of the Dharma initiative not secretly siding with them, and use everything they brought to the island. Why would they do that? There was no real reason of which we're aware.
Take a look at Sawyer: Parents dead, he shows up at the funeral. Why wait until then? For one matter, he could've spoken to him, and tried to teach him revenge isn't the answer. He could've found him a counselor, or even adopted Sawyer, or find him foster parents. He could have done any number of things to help Sawyer lead a more fulfilling life. What does he do? He gives Sawyer a pen to write his letter, the letter he carries on him until Sawyer finally kills the con-man that caused his troubles.
Flash to Kate, as a child. She steals a lunch box she finds she wants, and as soon as she's caught, Jacob appears and bails her out of it. He tells her not to steal anymore, and it seems like he did something good, right? Except we know Kate's a convict, and in fact, a murderer, once she grows up. What if Kate had been caught? Is it conceivable she'd have learned her lesson, essentially to obey the law, and not become the criminal she was that ruined her life?
I'm not going to lie and say Jacob did something overtly wrong to Jack, when Jack was performing his first surgery. It's possible, though, that Jacob's help and words ("Maybe it just needed a little push.") might have encouraged Jack to live in his father's shadow, or something similar, and we know Jack's life as a surgeon and even as a family man, was tormented by the position his father was in.
Jin and Sun have a difficult scenario to point out. I suppose the best I can say is that he wished them his best, but really, up until the point where they bonded with people on the island, which later split them apart, they grew increasingly miserable together. Jacob's best wishes really weren't worth all that much. This is another scratch, in my opinion.
And then there's Locke: What has Jacob done for Locke? He's sat on a bench when Locke was pushed out of a window, right? Then, when Locke was on the ground, seemingly dead, Jacob walks up, says he's sorry it happened to him, and walks away. How disingenuous is that? He let the man fall out of the building, knowing it would happen, and then apologized for it. Why allow it to happen, exactly? A lot of people believe Jacob brought Locke back to life, but had he, why not fix some of the damage done in such a way that Locke would be able to walk? After all, it can't be that hard, Locke walks immediately upon reaching the island, right? Things don't add up, at this point, I'd say.
A lot of people seem to believe Jacob can heal people. We see him visit Ilana, a new character, and asking for her help. She's in what is essentially a bodycast, and yet, he doesn't heal her. Why not? Again, I don't believe he has any sort of healing ability, and instead, we've misconstrued what we know about Jacob.
Later, we see him two more times. The first is with Sayid and Nadia. Sayid, who has finally found the woman he loves, after spending much of his adult life searching for her, loses her at this time. While Sayid and Jacob are talking about directions, Nadia pauses, and turns toward Sayid, and is sequentially hit by a car, which kills her. She had to turn to speak to Sayid because of Jacob. It's possible Jacob intentionally killed Nadia, which drove Sayid to murder several people out of anger and frustration.
Finally, we see him with Hurley, where it's clear, for once, he doesn't do something to hurt someone. He gives Hurley a guitar case, and suggests that Hurley has a gift, as he see and speak with the dead. This, and possibly the meeting with Jack, are the two "good" things Jacob has done, opposed to the much worse events he's caused.
Oh, and I neglected the time the Oceanic survivors spent on the island.
The Others are very hostile to the survivors of the crash that aren't on specific lists. Why? Why cause so many problems? Couldn't they be helpful, and assist survival to the survivors? I know that Ben was calling the shots, yes, but we also know Jacob, or at least the Jacob that Richard follows, could have issued some sort of command to Richard to change things. Instead, we see kidnapping and killing. We see Locke lead to kill his father, the con man Sawyer had been after. We see Jacob and the Others do virtually nothing when the "bad" people on the freighter attempt to kill everyone. We see someone or something toy with Locke, Claire, and Hurley in "Jacob's Cabin," but we know there's no telling when the circle of ash was broken, so we can't tell if it was Jacob or the "Smoke Monster" causing those illusions.
Essentially, my point is that we've seen very little about Jacob and the MiB. While we know the MiB doesn't like people and wants to kill Jacob, we know that Jacob knows a good deal about things that happened before they happened, and potentially made them worse. We believe Jacob can heal because of Locke and Rose, but really, as far as we know, it really was just the island that healed them, isn't it? We know of the springs, but again, they worked after Jacob was dead, and possibly work better than before. We know he wears white, while the other man wears black, but are we really basing things on the colors people wear? They signify opposition, but not sides. When people play backgammon, does the white side represent the "good" person? Not necessarily.
And so I pose that Jacob has done very little to show he's one of the "good guys." We know he works with Ilana, and her group claimed to be the good guys, but Frank Lapidus was quick to note that most of the people who make such claims don't end up substantiating said claims.
So that leaves us with the Man In Black. We know the Smoke Monster kills, plain and simple. We see it happen from the first episode on. It's clear we don't know why, but we know it does. We know the MiB and the Smoke Monster are almost certainly the same entity, as well. However, we also know that the smoke monster defended everyone at "New Otherton" from the invaders from the freighter, too. We're led to believe that Christian Sheppard is either a apparition of the Smoke Monster, or at least in league with it, and we know Christian helped Michael stop the people on the freighter meant to kill people on the island, as well. There's a few other things that have happened the Smoke Monster is responsible for, but I get the feeling this is long enough. I'll add that the MiB doesn't like people because they do things we, as the audience consider are wrong, and say that we've never seen anything that actually states the goals of either Jacob or the MiB before we learned he "wants to go home." So, essentially, we're siding with Jacob because Ben and Richard have said to side with Jacob, and he's less overt when he causes death or anguish. We're siding against the MiB/Smoke Monster because we plainly see what he does, even though we have seen him do some relative good.
And so, this all said, I think there'll be a twist, where we find Jacob has had some seriously ill intent behind his actions.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 04, 2010, 12:31:53 PM
I don't know that Jacob is a bad guy, but I think he may be just a guy and not a deity. Then again, Lost is very philosophical and maybe the creators of the show are trying to answer the question "why do bad things happen to good people?" Jacob has the power to stop the bad things but doesn't. There answer to this seems to be or include free will (remember what Jacob said to Ben before Ben killed him)
New theory about the ending of the show (speculation)
The Losties on the island fight against the Smoke Monster and fail, all dying. When they die, they merge with there LA X selves and must reunite and travel back to the island to save the world from the Smoke Monster. Just a theory
Post by: that Baby guy on February 04, 2010, 09:59:23 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 05, 2010, 11:57:21 AM
Charlie's hair is short in LA X, just like it is short when Hurley saw him after he died at the start of the fourth season. What if Hurley doesn't see dead people per se, but people from the the LA X dimension?
Post by: Halbred on February 05, 2010, 12:53:46 PM
Post by: vudu on February 05, 2010, 01:45:50 PM
You're reading too much into this stuff.
Post by: Plugabugz on February 05, 2010, 03:21:22 PM
Or maybe Dominic Monaghan's hair is just short right now and it wasn't worth it for him to change his hair just for a cameo. It's the same reason why we didn't see Shannon, Michael, Walt, or any of the passengers from the rear end of the plane--it just didn't matter that much.
You're reading too much into this stuff.
Exactly. A lot of the actors probably can't get the time to come in for just a cameo, but the alternate reality probably allows them to explain it all away. Especially in the case of Walt, he can't be seen until much later on in the timeline to allow for his age to catch up to his new appearance.
Post by: Stogi on February 05, 2010, 03:27:42 PM
Post by: vudu on February 05, 2010, 03:29:38 PM
I sincerely hope that the way they answer the mysteries within the series doesn't disappoint you all.That makes about a million of us.
Post by: Halbred on February 05, 2010, 04:30:06 PM
I was disappointed. I think that was obvious to both authors, but you can't really argue with the numbers.
What's that have to do with Lost? Very little. But for whatever reason, I was reminded of that story.
Post by: vudu on February 05, 2010, 04:57:54 PM
Juliette's dying message to Sawyer was it worked. The parts that we've seen on the island aren't dated, right? All we know is that they take place sometime after the hatch blows up, but we don't know when "now" is. It could be 2004, it could be 2007, it could be 2010 for all we know.
However, the scenes on the plane took place on September 22, 2004. My theory is that the characters in the "plane scenes" will eventually catch up to the characters in the "island scenes" throughout the course of the season. By negating the timeline they prevented Oceanic 815 from crashing. However, they are all destined to come to the island and one way or another they will all make it there by the end of the season. Maybe the characters who have died up to this point will make it there, too, and maybe they'll die once again (under different circumstances) but the main characters that we've seen on the island this week will all make it back.
The biggest problem with this theory is that right now these characters have memories of the original timeline--the one where flight Oceanic 815 crashed. Whether these will somehow get merged/overwritten by the alternate timeline memories I can't say.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 05, 2010, 05:02:40 PM
We know that the nukers returned to 2007 because when the flare goes up from the temple they see it on the beach with the four toed statue. Ajira flight 316 crashed in 2007. The rest of the theory sounds plausible though
Post by: vudu on February 05, 2010, 05:48:33 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 06, 2010, 03:42:37 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 06, 2010, 03:57:44 AM
Post by: vudu on February 06, 2010, 09:57:10 AM
copy/paste
Post by: ShyGuy on February 06, 2010, 11:36:45 AM
back on the subject of Lost: best seasons (excluding six which isn't finished)
1. Season 4
2. Season 1
3. Season 3
4. Season 5
5. Season 2
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 06, 2010, 01:57:12 PM
Either by entire seasons, or by regrouping the episodes?
or is it best to watch in it's actual order?
Post by: ShyGuy on February 06, 2010, 06:54:49 PM
Post by: Plugabugz on February 07, 2010, 08:54:11 AM
Best in its actual order, but someday I would like to see a chronological recut of Lost.
While thats possible we'd see all of Season 4/5's flashforwards put to the end. But with the alternate reality-tron you'd have to watch those separately.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 07, 2010, 12:47:25 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 09, 2010, 07:11:23 PM
What Kate Does
Post by: ShyGuy on February 10, 2010, 01:50:45 AM
Claire is stil pregnant and is destined to raise Aaron herself.
Ethan is off the island so everyone who was on the island, isn't necessarily under the ocean.
Sawyer's scene on the dock was very sad.
Mac from Sunny returns and get's himself shot by-
Jungle Claire, who has turned into Rousseau. Maybe the French Team wasn't infected, but Rousseau was?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 10, 2010, 03:07:21 AM
Post by: vudu on February 10, 2010, 01:38:12 PM
Jungle Claire, who has turned into Rousseau. Maybe the French Team wasn't infected, but Rousseau was?What? I assume you don't mean that literally. And I don't understand your infected comment.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 10, 2010, 10:29:44 PM
Jungle Claire, who has turned into Rousseau. Maybe the French Team wasn't infected, but Rousseau was?What? I assume you don't mean that literally. And I don't understand your infected comment.
Not literaly, but she is a now a mother without a child who runs around the jungle with a rifle and makes booby traps to kill the others, just like Rousseau did.
Rousseau told Sayid in season one that she killed the other members of the French exploration team when they became infected and started acting crazy.
Then in season 5 we see during time travel that all the French team except Rousseau got pulled into the hole beneath the temple during the incident where Montand lost his arm. Jin later sees Rousseau shoot her fiance on the beach during a standoff. This seemed to backup Rousseau's story about her team being infected. HOWEVER, we don't know for sure if her team was infected or maybe it was Danielle Rousseau who got infected and went crazy, killing her innocent team members.
Dogen said that Jack's sister (Claire) had been infected and they were unable to save her.
A couple of things to point though: Rousseau seemed crazy, but I wouldn't call her evil. Also, When would either Claire or Rousseau been infected?
Talking about Lost makes me sound like a crazy person.
Post by: that Baby guy on February 10, 2010, 10:56:07 PM
She might be crazy, but if they mean "claimed" by someone their against, they probably mean Christian Sheppard or the MiB. And by claimed, they probably mean "not traumatized to insanity." Seriously, though. Jacob's people are all liars, so I'm sure what they're saying is some annoying half-truth. They just want to use the "Losties" for whatever secret thing, anyways, and that's the only reason they're alive.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 11, 2010, 12:24:00 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on February 11, 2010, 12:37:50 AM
I think I could agree with you thatguy, what good have the Others ever done for anyone?
Which is why I still think Jacob isn't such a good fellow.
Post by: ThePerm on February 11, 2010, 03:06:34 AM
perhaps there are different smoke monsters? It seems that while mortal both Jacob and the MiB are supernatural, perhaps they both have the smoke monstering ability
Post by: Plugabugz on February 11, 2010, 08:22:49 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 12, 2010, 12:28:00 AM
Post by: Plugabugz on February 12, 2010, 07:02:36 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on February 12, 2010, 09:36:51 AM
It was a good episode but knowing that they have only 17 episode (15 left as this episode counts as the third), they really need to pick up the pace.
I actually thought this wasn't a "bad" Kate episode, really. The general internet seems to be raged about it being filler, but I think it was meant to show a bit more of how desperate Clair was at the beginning, needing someone to show real sympathy enough that she would trust a criminal who robbed her at gunpoint...
And, I think it was also meant to show that even the Temple Others are basic scumbags. The leader, Dogen was just fine speaking in English to Jack, in order to try to fool him into killing his friend and make him more susceptible to manipulation.
And, then, there's the whole "claimed/infected" thing, where they're being intentionally vague. I don't know if it'll be a plot point, or if it was just a continuity error, but from what we actually understand, the Rousseau wasn't "claimed/infected." They showed us Jin's time traveling experience, they separated him from the rest, just so they could show us that, I believe. I'd imagine it's just a way to show how again, the Others are no good, filthy liars, overall.
I'd suppose this is to set them, and potentially someone "bigger" as potential antagonists, in entirety, so the show has a bit more closure. People do like black and white enemies, and if anyone could become that, it would be the Others.
Post by: Plugabugz on February 14, 2010, 06:54:33 AM
It was a good episode but knowing that they have only 17 episode (15 left as this episode counts as the third), they really need to pick up the pace.
I actually thought this wasn't a "bad" Kate episode, really. The general internet seems to be raged about it being filler, but I think it was meant to show a bit more of how desperate Clair was at the beginning, needing someone to show real sympathy enough that she would trust a criminal who robbed her at gunpoint...
And, I think it was also meant to show that even the Temple Others are basic scumbags. The leader, Dogen was just fine speaking in English to Jack, in order to try to fool him into killing his friend and make him more susceptible to manipulation.
And, then, there's the whole "claimed/infected" thing, where they're being intentionally vague. I don't know if it'll be a plot point, or if it was just a continuity error, but from what we actually understand, the Rousseau wasn't "claimed/infected." They showed us Jin's time traveling experience, they separated him from the rest, just so they could show us that, I believe. I'd imagine it's just a way to show how again, the Others are no good, filthy liars, overall.
I'd suppose this is to set them, and potentially someone "bigger" as potential antagonists, in entirety, so the show has a bit more closure. People do like black and white enemies, and if anyone could become that, it would be the Others.
I agree with you for thr most part. It wasn't a bad episode in that sense but my point generally was that in Season 6 there's 18 (not 17, as i thought) episodes and we are already 3 in. This season, every single second that runs up to the finale is important.
Post by: Halbred on February 15, 2010, 12:17:54 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 15, 2010, 01:06:02 AM
Post by: Halbred on February 16, 2010, 02:51:05 PM
Post by: gbuell on February 16, 2010, 03:15:41 PM
Post by: vudu on February 16, 2010, 03:57:49 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 17, 2010, 01:07:52 AM
Lot of answers this week. Smoke Monster was once a man, Jacob was the Island Guardian and was looking for replacement. He certainly screwed up peoples lives during the interview process! I guess Jacob made up the numbers too. Sawyer saw through the smoke monster in an instant cause he's awesome.
Post by: that Baby guy on February 17, 2010, 01:49:20 AM
They said in season 5's finale that Frank Lapidus was a candidate, didn't they? There's no longer a "4," but I believe we saw who "8, 15, 16, 23, and 42" were, and he wasn't there, right? Didn't they also suggest Kate as a candidate, as well? Wouldn't this mean we're missing some numbers from our list here, or are the Others just kind of stupid and out of the loop?
Post by: ShyGuy on February 17, 2010, 02:19:47 AM
Post by: ThePerm on February 17, 2010, 02:22:27 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 17, 2010, 09:40:41 AM
Post by: vudu on February 17, 2010, 10:27:55 AM
EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it, in the season premier wasn't Hugo talking to some guy who knew he was the owner of the chicken joint and Hugo mentioned that he bought it after he won the lottery because he likes chicken? How the heck did he win the lotto?!
Post by: gbuell on February 17, 2010, 03:58:14 PM
They never say that Frank Lapidus is a candidate - they simply say at one point, "Do you think he's a candidate?"
Vudu, I agree that there's no real reason for Hurley to have won the lottery, other than the universe "self-correcting" and making him win the lottery with different numbers. There are some other similar "plot holes" that I don't think will really get filled. For example, neither Hurley, Claire, nor Locke really have any reason to be on Oceanic 815. Hurley was originally there to find out information about the cursed numbers, but if he doesn't have the cursed numbers, he doesn't have that reason to fly to Australia. Claire was flying to LA on the suggestion of that psychic guy, and they later figured out that the psychic guy put Claire on that flight because he knew it would crash on the island. So if Claire wasn't going to crash on the island, he really had no reason to put her on that flight. And finally, Locke was in Australia on a walkabout, and he originally got the walkabout idea from that black guy who was Whidmore's assistant. I think the assumption is that the guy told Locke about the walkabout because he knew that would eventually get him to land on the island, so if that wasn't going to happen, he wouldn't have told him about the walkabout. I highly doubt any of these things will be addressed, and they're ultimately not that important, but it's interesting to think about.
Post by: Sundoulos on February 17, 2010, 06:01:26 PM
That didn't make perfect sense to me, unless there's two things happening at once:
They said in season 5's finale that Frank Lapidus was a candidate, didn't they? There's no longer a "4," but I believe we saw who "8, 15, 16, 23, and 42" were, and he wasn't there, right? Didn't they also suggest Kate as a candidate, as well? Wouldn't this mean we're missing some numbers from our list here, or are the Others just kind of stupid and out of the loop?
4: (John) Locke
8: (Hugo) Reyes
15: (James) Ford
16: (Sayid) Jarrah
23: (Jack) Shephard
42: (Sun or Jin?...or maybe the baby?) Kwon
I found it surprising that Kate and Desmond were not mentioned. My money would have been on Desmond as an unwilling successor to Jacob, if anyone were to be one. Then again, I don't think Jacob was ever shown visiting Desmond in the season finale. Yet, Kate was visited, and she's not on the list, which I find strange.
I still want to know what those stupid numbers actually represent. Seat numbers on the plane? Nah.
Post by: ThePerm on February 17, 2010, 07:12:18 PM
Post by: gbuell on February 17, 2010, 07:16:36 PM
Post by: vudu on February 17, 2010, 08:09:36 PM
I think the numbers are simply an organizational system Jacob used to keep track of his "candidates"... I feel like the last episode has pretty much answered that for us.I'm not so sure about that. If they simply were the order in which Jacob met them then Sawyer would be a much smaller number than Locke and Hugo would be the highest number.
Post by: gbuell on February 17, 2010, 09:45:47 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 17, 2010, 10:05:46 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on February 17, 2010, 10:23:09 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 18, 2010, 03:27:47 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on February 24, 2010, 01:07:51 AM
Jack is a dad? Presumably not with Sara, but someone else. Claire is really really crazy. She seems worse than Rousseau ever was. I liked revisiting the caves. Jack has a freakout and the magic lighthouse. Too bad it looks like everyone at the temple is gonna get SMOKE MONSTERED
Post by: ThePerm on February 24, 2010, 02:20:16 AM
Post by: Sundoulos on February 24, 2010, 09:39:39 AM
Also, feral Claire is scary.
Post by: vudu on February 24, 2010, 10:25:19 AM
Did I miss it?You didn't miss it (or if you did, I did, too). I wonder who's coming to the island?
Well, now we know. :)I think the numbers are simply an organizational system Jacob used to keep track of his "candidates"... I feel like the last episode has pretty much answered that for us.I'm not so sure about that. If they simply were the order in which Jacob met them then Sawyer would be a much smaller number than Locke and Hugo would be the highest number.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 24, 2010, 12:21:00 PM
Wallace. Who?
Post by: gbuell on February 24, 2010, 03:33:58 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on February 24, 2010, 03:55:38 PM
It's very conceivable, especially considering the twists we saw with Rousseau, that Claire has minor amnesia, and cannot remember exactly what happened during that time, even forgetting what happened to Aaron. Furthermore, from this perspective, Claire really isn't all that crazy. She's been abducted by the others before, and it when the rest of the Lost crew left or time-traveled, it's not like the Others were friends. Alone, she'd have no choice but to consider them enemies, and I can see how she would believe they took Aaron, as well, given they did want to take him in the first three seasons, anyways.
My real question is in regard to what Christian Sheppard and unLocke told her... Did they say the Others took Aaron? Were they both there at the same time? Why would they lie to Claire? Could it actually have been to protect her from them, since, as far as we can see, they do want her dead, and they're not exactly great people, still.
What's important to remember is this: It seems the Man In Black, aka unLocke, aka the Smoke Monster is stuck either in his "pillar of smoke" form or as Locke, but Christian Sheppard actually appeared last season after we saw unLocke. If we believe Ilanna, it means Christian Sheppard is a separate entity on the island. My honest guess? He exists as a balancing force of some sort. A referee, if you will. Recall Christian Sheppard's main role has been to take people where they "need to be," in a sense. In season one, he guided Jack to a fresh water source for the island's survivors. In season four, he did take Claire to Jacob's Cabin, and in season five, he showed Sun and Frank Lapidus that the rest of the Losties were in 1977. While it seems like he helps the Man In Black more often than Jacob, I believe he only does so because he'd deemed "The Others," and similar forces an unfair advantage in Jacob's favor, in regards to whatever game the two have been playing.
That's just the idea I've been formulating from what I've seen, and it explains why he's flat-out helped the Losties, while the smoke monster was generally a nuisance.
Post by: ShyGuy on February 24, 2010, 10:14:04 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 03, 2010, 01:13:16 AM
Sayid is an evil man on the side of good? Or did he simple kill the men who threatened him and his own? Either way their is blood on his hands. Plus, Dead is not dead. Carlton and Damon lied to us.
Post by: gbuell on March 03, 2010, 11:46:07 AM
Post by: ThePerm on March 09, 2010, 11:36:50 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 10, 2010, 01:18:07 AM
Ben is a good guy now! That makes me happy. There were rumors he was going to die this episode. Widmore brought a new sub to the island. I wonder if anyone else is on it. Eloise Hawking? Desmond? Penny? Taller Ghost Walt?
Post by: vudu on March 10, 2010, 01:52:35 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on March 10, 2010, 05:28:02 PM
Or by forcing Miles to read his old thoughts.
Diamonds. Miles is surprisingly awesome at some points. If you rewatch episodes where his ability is used proficiently, you'll realize he's a seriously astute character, and while he's not a leader, he's someone you want on your side.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 11, 2010, 12:03:54 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on March 11, 2010, 03:04:36 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 11, 2010, 09:58:43 PM
My Faraday Lost Theory: Back in the 70's Faraday programmed the musical password on the computer in the underwater looking glass Dharma station that Charlie had to turn off.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 17, 2010, 01:47:37 AM
Chang and Ford are loose cannons! The mayor's office is going to tear me a new one! Back on the Island, Sayid is a Zombie, Claire is crazy, Smoke Locke is devious, and Sawyer doesn't give a crap.
Widmore seems to be in it for himself and I think he is gonna get killed hard. I bet I know what is behind the locked door in the Submarine. Desmond! Possibly Penny and little Charlie
Post by: vudu on March 17, 2010, 03:07:53 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on March 17, 2010, 03:29:26 PM
Essentially, for some reason, Ben looked into everything about the Losties via "what's his face" who was at the flame. Mikhov, or something like that. He learned Locke could walk upon reaching the island, and saw him as a threat. From there, they learned where Anthony Cooper was, in Tallahasse, and actually kidnapped him and brought him to the island.
Once Ben and Locke met up in the "Others'" camp, it was revealed that Locke might be the leader. Apparently, Ben brought Locke's father to the island to force Locke to kill him, saying Locke's daddy issues were a rock in his path to being fearless leader. It was basically a ploy by Ben to remain in power, as Ben hoped Locke wouldn't go through with killing him. Richard basically told Locke this, and gave him a folder with information on Sawyer, including his real name, James Ford, and the reason why he goes by Sawyer: His family was killed by a con man using the name Sawyer. That man's real name was Anthony Cooper, and just happened to be Locke's father.
Since Locke had reservations about killing his father, Locke took his father to the Black Rock and tied him up to in a room on the boat, then went back to the Losties' camp to find Sawyer. He told Sawyer he had Ben tied up on the Black Rock, and he needed Sawyer to kill him. When they arrived, Locke locked Sawyer in the room with Anthony Cooper, and after a little bit of talking, Sawyer figured out who he was and killed him. Locke took the body back to the Others, and then resumed the process of becoming their leader.
Post by: vudu on March 17, 2010, 03:38:42 PM
Post by: gbuell on March 17, 2010, 05:08:48 PM
Post by: vudu on March 17, 2010, 05:11:32 PM
Post by: ThePerm on March 17, 2010, 09:19:18 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on March 17, 2010, 09:46:43 PM
Post by: ThePerm on March 18, 2010, 02:30:41 AM
Post by: RABicle on March 18, 2010, 03:00:52 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 18, 2010, 03:02:23 AM
Post by: gbuell on March 18, 2010, 02:18:12 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on March 18, 2010, 03:10:41 PM
Post by: Plugabugz on March 18, 2010, 03:56:08 PM
Post by: gbuell on March 18, 2010, 07:16:07 PM
Post by: ThePerm on March 18, 2010, 08:50:19 PM
Post by: Kytim89 on March 19, 2010, 01:21:29 PM
Post by: vudu on March 19, 2010, 01:43:57 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 19, 2010, 03:18:06 PM
ABC Released promo pics for the Richard Alpert episode and it appears to be a 1800s flashback with The original MIB, Jacob holding the knife Sayid stabbed Locke with and who I am guessing is the Smoke Monster's crazy mother
Post by: Kytim89 on March 20, 2010, 12:17:38 AM
Great--Kytim89 found General Chat. :(
I sure get around do I not? I am spreading like a virus and pretty sonn I will be all over this forum. You wont be able to go any where without reading my insightful comments.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 24, 2010, 01:18:05 AM
Jacob doesn't seem to be a complete force for good. Neither does the Man in Black. Richard got screwed for his entire life. Hugo is the most righteous character on the show. Can the smoke monster deliver on his promises?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 24, 2010, 01:43:33 AM
Lost! Richard! No Answers! ;)
Jacob doesn't seem to be a complete force for good. Neither does the Man in Black. Richard got screwed for his entire life. Hugo is the most righteous character on the show. Can the smoke monster deliver on his promises?
I noticed the statue was whole when the ship crashed, was the island in a time loop at the time? Anyway the interaction between Jacob and the Man in Black is really fascinating, neither character seems pure good or pure evil
Post by: that Baby guy on March 24, 2010, 01:50:21 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 24, 2010, 02:14:01 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on March 24, 2010, 02:31:21 AM
Post by: vudu on March 24, 2010, 01:24:32 PM
I liked how they saw the ship in the day time back at the end of season five, but they only approached it in this episode during a storm at night. Sure, sure, it's semantics, but honestly I'm a bit surprised they didn't catch that.
Why do you think it's the same ship? From what we know Jacob's been bringing ships to the island for eons. There's nothing to indicate it's the same ship except they both looked to be from roughly the same time period; but for all we know that scene in season 5 could have taken place hundreds of years before Richard's ship crashed.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 24, 2010, 02:22:56 PM
New theory!
MiB is the Devil, but Jacob isn't God, just an Angel guarding the gates of Hell.
Post by: vudu on March 24, 2010, 02:30:13 PM
Post by: Halbred on March 24, 2010, 02:50:29 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 24, 2010, 03:55:11 PM
I liked how they saw the ship in the day time back at the end of season five, but they only approached it in this episode during a storm at night. Sure, sure, it's semantics, but honestly I'm a bit surprised they didn't catch that.
I really do not think the creators or the writers would make a mistake like that to be honest.
Post by: that Baby guy on March 24, 2010, 05:04:04 PM
I liked how they saw the ship in the day time back at the end of season five, but they only approached it in this episode during a storm at night. Sure, sure, it's semantics, but honestly I'm a bit surprised they didn't catch that.
Why do you think it's the same ship? From what we know Jacob's been bringing ships to the island for eons. There's nothing to indicate it's the same ship except they both looked to be from roughly the same time period; but for all we know that scene in season 5 could have taken place hundreds of years before Richard's ship crashed.
Except it said "Sometime in the 1800's in that scene. It is possible it was meant to be a different ship, but I would imagine there would likely be some remains of any ship that was about 200 years old that landed on the islands. Sure, they might just have not showed it, but I think it was just an oversight, like how the ultrasound Claire took in Kate's episode earlier this season was mis-dated with an October date, rather than September.
Post by: vudu on March 24, 2010, 05:09:29 PM
Post by: gbuell on March 24, 2010, 05:38:19 PM
I noticed the statue was whole when the ship crashed, was the island in a time loop at the time? Anyway the interaction between Jacob and the Man in Black is really fascinating, neither character seems pure good or pure evil
The MIB said that the Black Rock knocked the statue over when it crashed on the island. We see it whole before the ship crashes, and broken after the ship crashes.
Post by: that Baby guy on March 24, 2010, 08:08:20 PM
You're wrong.I am wrong, but not to the degree you say. What I had seen before was the "Enhanced" (http://www.hulu.com/watch/123081/lost-the-incident-part-1---enhanced#s-p2-so-i2) version of the episode, and that's the one that references time. It says what we saw in the opening of The Incident was "...over 140 years before the present day" and that "The ship in the distance...is an early 1800's wooden sailing ship."
Again, that's not definitive, but it's heavily implied we're supposed to be looking at the Black Rock in the flashback, even though the two aren't consistent with each other.
Post by: ThePerm on March 24, 2010, 08:40:18 PM
The island isn't Hell. The island is preventing Hell from escaping into the world.
The island gods were toying with Ricardo's feeble little old school mind, im sure by now he's wiser
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 25, 2010, 01:34:25 PM
You're wrong.I am wrong, but not to the degree you say. What I had seen before was the "Enhanced" (http://www.hulu.com/watch/123081/lost-the-incident-part-1---enhanced#s-p2-so-i2) version of the episode, and that's the one that references time. It says what we saw in the opening of The Incident was "...over 140 years before the present day" and that "The ship in the distance...is an early 1800's wooden sailing ship."
Again, that's not definitive, but it's heavily implied we're supposed to be looking at the Black Rock in the flashback, even though the two aren't consistent with each other.
Let's say it was the Black Rock, we've seen in the past how weather can change instantly on the island, so that may have been right before the scene we seen.
Post by: broodwars on March 29, 2010, 06:28:29 AM
Post by: Halbred on March 29, 2010, 09:28:20 PM
Post by: gbuell on March 29, 2010, 10:23:54 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 29, 2010, 10:26:16 PM
Post by: ThePerm on March 29, 2010, 10:43:29 PM
Post by: broodwars on March 29, 2010, 10:45:20 PM
the budget for lost has gone down every season, the first season was probably the most amazing visually
Indeed, I always thought the pilot had a phenomenal budget with that crash site, and the show really hasn't lived up to that ever since. As for the Smoke Monster, I thought it looked no better or worse than it has ever looked. You'd really think by now they'd actually have a visual effect for the transformation rather than the old "happens off camera" routine, given how popular this show is.
Post by: Plugabugz on March 30, 2010, 05:24:51 PM
Post by: Sundoulos on March 30, 2010, 06:00:20 PM
By the way, does anyone think that they might pull a Fight Club and that Jacob and MIB might be the same person/entity? Esau did recently mention that Jacob stole his body.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 31, 2010, 01:25:58 AM
Lost!
So is Keamy dead or not? Jin should have put another in his skull just to be sure. Jack seems to have turned into super nice guy lately, I miss crazy bearded Jack driving around LA in the middle of the night, listening to grunge and breaking into funeral homes. Widmore can't be trusted.
Post by: that Baby guy on March 31, 2010, 01:59:27 AM
Jack?! I almost shot you! :D
-I noticed :)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 31, 2010, 03:16:15 AM
Well, I finally did it...I finally sat down and actually marathoned all of this season's Lost episodes (so far) from season premiere to the most current one. I'll have more to post later when my thoughts are more coherent, but to simplify them down to a few sentences: I still loathe this show. I hate the incredibly-unlikeable characters, I hate the endless backstabbing, I hate the way the plot gets stretched and drawn out so anything approaching an interesting concept becomes unbearable, and I hate that people continually praise the writing when it is so unbearably bad. And to make matters worse, the "gimmick" this season is showing an alternate universe where apparently the island had little to no impact on anyone's life, and as a result everyone is leading much more interesting lives and (for the most part) are better people. Only this show would have the unmitigated gall to pad its final episodes with snippets of a show I'd much rather be watching. How ironic that I've actually become attached to characters who will probably have absolutely no impact on the actual story of the show whatsoever. As much as I hate this show, though, it's like a car crash: I just can't look away from it no matter how painful as I watch episode after episode. It's nice to finally get some plot details filled in as well as the ground rules for what the rest of the show will be about, though.
Well I know where your taste in TV is like now. Remind me to never take your advice in regards to what shows to watch. ;)
I'll continue to enjoy the best written and most unique show on TV, while you grumble.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 31, 2010, 12:28:45 PM
Well, I finally did it...I finally sat down and actually marathoned all of this season's Lost episodes (so far) from season premiere to the most current one. I'll have more to post later when my thoughts are more coherent, but to simplify them down to a few sentences: I still loathe this show. I hate the incredibly-unlikeable characters, I hate the endless backstabbing, I hate the way the plot gets stretched and drawn out so anything approaching an interesting concept becomes unbearable, and I hate that people continually praise the writing when it is so unbearably bad. And to make matters worse, the "gimmick" this season is showing an alternate universe where apparently the island had little to no impact on anyone's life, and as a result everyone is leading much more interesting lives and (for the most part) are better people. Only this show would have the unmitigated gall to pad its final episodes with snippets of a show I'd much rather be watching. How ironic that I've actually become attached to characters who will probably have absolutely no impact on the actual story of the show whatsoever. As much as I hate this show, though, it's like a car crash: I just can't look away from it no matter how painful as I watch episode after episode. It's nice to finally get some plot details filled in as well as the ground rules for what the rest of the show will be about, though.
Well I know where your taste in TV is like now. Remind me to never take your advice in regards to what shows to watch. ;)
I'll continue to enjoy the best written and most unique show on TV, while you grumble.
ICE burn!
Post by: broodwars on March 31, 2010, 02:17:51 PM
I'll continue to enjoy the best written and most unique show on TV, while you grumble.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that we were talking about The West Wing. ;) Now there was some great writing and characterization all done without endless padding and constant backstabbing from characters I'd rather died in the most horrific fashions, even if the show did decline in its later seasons.
Post by: gbuell on March 31, 2010, 03:27:07 PM
Post by: Plugabugz on March 31, 2010, 04:36:38 PM
Likeable characters are boring.
Watch the first 10 episodes of Stargate Universe and try saying that again.
Post by: Halbred on March 31, 2010, 04:48:36 PM
Post by: broodwars on March 31, 2010, 04:54:59 PM
Post by: gbuell on March 31, 2010, 05:07:25 PM
Post by: Plugabugz on March 31, 2010, 05:17:55 PM
Likeable characters are boring.
Watch the first 10 episodes of Stargate Universe and try saying that again.
Or Pushing Daisies.
I'm not sure but i think you missed my point? :P: : NONE of the characters on SGU are likeable because they all have "flaws"... And in fact they just grate and will annoy you quickly.
Post by: Halbred on March 31, 2010, 05:25:50 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 31, 2010, 06:04:45 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on March 31, 2010, 11:17:33 PM
1. Cleverish dialog while walking
2. Silly subplot
3. Heart felt words from President
4. Repeat.
Rob Lowe knew to get the heck off that merry-go-round.
Post by: Plugabugz on April 01, 2010, 08:40:09 AM
Funny in Lost I like several of the characters despite their flaws, Jack, Sawyer, Ben and Locke (even bad Locke), in fact there are only a couple I can say I don't like in some way.
I like Ben and Locke the most mainly because of how much chemistry Michael Emerson and Terry O'Quinn have both together and against anyone else on the show.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 01, 2010, 04:13:28 PM
Funny in Lost I like several of the characters despite their flaws, Jack, Sawyer, Ben and Locke (even bad Locke), in fact there are only a couple I can say I don't like in some way.
I like Ben and Locke the most mainly because of how much chemistry Michael Emerson and Terry O'Quinn have both together and against anyone else on the show.
Emerson and O'Quinn do have amazing chemistry, some of the best I've seen in TV. I know O"quinn is shopping around a potential series with him and Emerson as Hitmen.
Post by: vudu on April 06, 2010, 10:11:09 PM
I have hope once again that the series is going to have a satisfactory end.
Post by: gbuell on April 06, 2010, 10:38:43 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on April 07, 2010, 01:13:26 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 07, 2010, 02:52:50 AM
Is how it appears those who died on the island seem to be reborn in this alternate universe with their memories having the ability to be triggered, except Desmond, who is special. I am beginning to doubt we'll see Juliet again though, since it appears only characters who died pre-nuke are there
Post by: ThePerm on April 07, 2010, 03:17:57 AM
Post by: vudu on April 07, 2010, 02:58:18 PM
Vudu, why do you find it so hard to believe?
I didn't say it was hard to believe; I said it was a waste of time. The stories didn't seem to go anywhere and they weren't related to the over-arching storyline of the series. They seemed to be more "what if" and not-so-much "hey, here's why". This new episode seems to be the start of linking the two story lines and for that I am excited.
Also, Daniel Faraday is my new favorite character.
Are you saying you want to set off a nuclear bomb?
No, I don't want to set off a nuclear bomb. I think I already did.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 07, 2010, 03:29:29 PM
Vudu, why do you find it so hard to believe?
I didn't say it was hard to believe; I said it was a waste of time. The stories didn't seem to go anywhere and they weren't related to the over-arching storyline of the series. They seemed to be more "what if" and not-so-much "hey, here's why". This new episode seems to be the start of linking the two story lines and for that I am excited.
Also, Daniel Faraday is my new favorite character.
Are you saying you want to set off a nuclear bomb?
No, I don't want to set off a nuclear bomb. I think I already did.
Oh yes, that line was wonderful. I teared up towards at the key moment of the episode at the end, beautiful.
Post by: ThePerm on April 07, 2010, 05:16:44 PM
Post by: Plugabugz on April 07, 2010, 05:23:41 PM
Any episode with Penny and Desmond in together is win. I don't care if the series ends mid-sentence and cuts to black... as long as those two get their happily ever after.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 07, 2010, 05:42:31 PM
Any episode where Desmond features is going to be amazing The Constant back in Season 4 was probably one of the best episodes of any TV show ever, but still far behind Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead in Season 4 of Doctor Who.
Any episode with Penny and Desmond in together is win. I don't care if the series ends mid-sentence and cuts to black... as long as those two get their happily ever after.
Really I have more faith the Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse then that. They are both amazingly creative guys and great writers, I have little doubt that the show will have a proper ending.
Post by: ThePerm on April 07, 2010, 05:55:01 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 07, 2010, 05:58:55 PM
makes me wonder if the finale will be like 2 hours?
It has already been confirmed to be 2 hrs
Post by: ThePerm on April 07, 2010, 06:00:35 PM
Everybody loves Hugo
The Last Recruit
The Candidate
Across the Sea it says this episode is about jacob and the man in black
What they Died for penny and desmond are the bodies from season 1?
The End
and lol Mario Van Peebles directed Dr. Linus :P
Post by: Plugabugz on April 07, 2010, 06:33:30 PM
Any episode where Desmond features is going to be amazing The Constant back in Season 4 was probably one of the best episodes of any TV show ever, but still far behind Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead in Season 4 of Doctor Who.
Any episode with Penny and Desmond in together is win. I don't care if the series ends mid-sentence and cuts to black... as long as those two get their happily ever after.
Really I have more faith the Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse then that. They are both amazingly creative guys and great writers, I have little doubt that the show will have a proper ending.
But desmond and penny MUST get their ending else i will be fuming. If they don't then the rest of the series is irrelevant.
Post by: ShyGuy on April 07, 2010, 10:39:51 PM
Vudu, why do you find it so hard to believe?
I didn't say it was hard to believe; I said it was a waste of time. The stories didn't seem to go anywhere and they weren't related to the over-arching storyline of the series. They seemed to be more "what if" and not-so-much "hey, here's why". This new episode seems to be the start of linking the two story lines and for that I am excited.
Also, Daniel Faraday is my new favorite character.
Are you saying you want to set off a nuclear bomb?
No, I don't want to set off a nuclear bomb. I think I already did.
You were supposed to reply, "Why do you find it so easy?!?"
Post by: ShyGuy on April 14, 2010, 01:03:56 AM
Did you see? And then she?
Then he was doing? And THEN he!!
HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 14, 2010, 02:16:18 AM
HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP
Did you see? And then she?
Then he was doing? And THEN he!!
HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP
Wow, this season is picking up steam big time. I wonder if
We'll find out the reason for both Libby and Hugo being put into the insane asylum in the original timeline. It was brought up again so I hope it is covered, but geez what an action packed episode. Love how the whispers are actually the condemned who can't pass on because of their crimes. Also I find it interesting that it appears Locke and the Smoke Monster are truly linked in both realities
Post by: ThePerm on April 14, 2010, 02:23:23 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 14, 2010, 02:38:59 AM
is Desmond aware of everything in both worlds at once?
Both versions of Desmond may know what is at stake but may not be linked between realities simultaneously. Who knows though, all I know is things are getting exciting
Post by: ShyGuy on April 14, 2010, 02:46:05 AM
Wow, this season is picking up steam big time. I wonder if
We'll find out the reason for both Libby and Hugo being put into the insane asylum in the original timeline. It was brought up again so I hope it is covered, but geez what an action packed episode. Love how the whispers are actually the condemned who can't pass on because of their crimes. Also I find it interesting that it appears Locke and the Smoke Monster are truly linked in both realities
If I remember right, Hugo had a break with reality after he was on a deck at a party that broke and killed some people and he blamed himself because he thought it was because he was fat. Libby I assumed was depressed to the point of being catatonic after he husband Dave died.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 14, 2010, 04:20:51 AM
Wow, this season is picking up steam big time. I wonder if
We'll find out the reason for both Libby and Hugo being put into the insane asylum in the original timeline. It was brought up again so I hope it is covered, but geez what an action packed episode. Love how the whispers are actually the condemned who can't pass on because of their crimes. Also I find it interesting that it appears Locke and the Smoke Monster are truly linked in both realities
If I remember right, Hugo had a break with reality after he was on a deck at a party that broke and killed some people and he blamed himself because he thought it was because he was fat. Libby I assumed was depressed to the point of being catatonic after he husband Dave died.
Hmm, that may be it.
Post by: ThePerm on April 14, 2010, 06:42:50 AM
we should have known it would be the lesser developed character
Post by: gbuell on April 15, 2010, 01:04:47 PM
Also I find it interesting that it appears Locke and the Smoke Monster are truly linked in both realities
What do you mean by that?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 15, 2010, 01:13:28 PM
Also I find it interesting that it appears Locke and the Smoke Monster are truly linked in both realities
What do you mean by that?
That Locke in the alternate reality is linked somehow to the smoke monster locke, and what happens to him in the one reality affects the other. Just adds a twist to the being that is the Smoke Monster
Post by: vudu on April 15, 2010, 01:40:56 PM
Post by: gbuell on April 15, 2010, 05:46:27 PM
Post by: Halbred on April 15, 2010, 05:50:05 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 15, 2010, 05:59:56 PM
Post by: gbuell on April 15, 2010, 06:06:01 PM
Post by: vudu on April 15, 2010, 06:36:17 PM
Yeah, I think it's fairly clear that Desmond was trying to give him a near-death experience to get him to see the other universe. I'd be shocked if there was any more motivation to it than that.
I assumed he's trying to get Locke and Jack back together.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 15, 2010, 06:39:00 PM
Yeah, what? You haven't explained why you think they are linked.
I am going with the theory that Desmond was trying to kill Locke in the alternate reality to affect the Smoke Locke on the Island. THere have been some major hints in the past as well the two are linked together, including some statements Smoke Locke has made. Such as when he told that mysterious kid "You cannot tell me what I can't do". This incident just seems to reconfirm that since it appears Desmond was trying to kill Locke because he appears to be connected to the Smoke Locke.
Post by: ShyGuy on April 15, 2010, 07:16:54 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on April 21, 2010, 01:07:39 AM
weird episode tonight, The flash sideways was better than the on island stuff. Jack, of course, has to screw everything up. Widmore is evil, Fake Lock is evil.
Post by: Sundoulos on April 21, 2010, 08:52:03 AM
The Desmond on the island didn't appear to know that the Locke-ness monster wasn't really the John Locke we know and love, so I'm leaning a bit against the theory that he was actually trying to take Subsitute Teacher Locke! down with the car. I do think that he was trying to trigger a realization of the Island reality. The true love thing wouldn't work on Locke since he already had someone in the alternate reality... I do think that eventually, John Locke will have an epiphany-type experience in the hospital that will cause his consciousness/memories to touch base with the Locke-ness monster. Any guesses as to what will happen then?
Post by: vudu on April 21, 2010, 01:38:17 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on April 21, 2010, 02:37:03 PM
Post by: gbuell on April 21, 2010, 03:33:47 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 21, 2010, 03:40:19 PM
I trust Jack to screw everthing up.
I don't think he will this time.
Post by: Sundoulos on April 21, 2010, 05:42:12 PM
Post by: MegaByte on April 21, 2010, 05:42:49 PM
I half-expected them to get fried by the sonic fence.This.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 21, 2010, 05:50:01 PM
I cringed during the Sun/Jin reunion. I half-expected them to get fried by the sonic fence.
Lol I know me too
Post by: ShyGuy on April 21, 2010, 10:17:05 PM
I cringed during the Sun/Jin reunion. I half-expected them to get fried by the sonic fence.
I was like, "they better not kill them with the sonic fence just as they reunite..."
Post by: ThePerm on April 22, 2010, 01:10:07 AM
Post by: gbuell on April 22, 2010, 03:06:23 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 24, 2010, 06:43:30 AM
Desmond Hume
John Locke
Rousseeau
are named after famous people
but i didn't notice Richard Alpert until I was watching this movie called Mondo Hollywood
and sure enough there was a Richard Alpert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Alpert
Post by: ShyGuy on April 24, 2010, 12:37:21 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 24, 2010, 10:03:07 PM
heres a demonstration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JocoOzuhaL0
Post by: vudu on April 27, 2010, 09:05:57 PM
Post by: gbuell on April 27, 2010, 09:15:46 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on April 27, 2010, 09:21:10 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 27, 2010, 09:29:15 PM
Post by: gbuell on April 27, 2010, 10:44:00 PM
What Lost podcasts do you listen to? I listen to the official Lost podcast, Geronimo Jack's Beard and The Lost podcast with Jay and Jack
I listen to all those plus The Lost Transmissions.
Post by: ThePerm on May 02, 2010, 11:21:29 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 03, 2010, 12:44:14 AM
Post by: ThePerm on May 03, 2010, 01:15:53 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 03, 2010, 01:20:29 AM
Post by: ThePerm on May 03, 2010, 04:45:48 AM
Post by: Halbred on May 03, 2010, 02:44:26 PM
Every time she points a gun at somebody, I think to myself, "you used to be teaching students at a university about sedimentology, NOT SHOOTING PEOPLE."
If she wasn't the best-looking woman on the show right now, I'd groan.
Post by: Caterkiller on May 03, 2010, 03:43:33 PM
Post by: vudu on May 03, 2010, 03:50:32 PM
WTF IS THIS RERUN ****?
Post by: gbuell on May 03, 2010, 04:03:01 PM
Point of contention: That geologist who Whitmore hired to be his croney? She looks like a chestier Tina Fey. Also, SHE'S A GEOLOGIST, NOT A MERC.
Every time she points a gun at somebody, I think to myself, "you used to be teaching students at a university about sedimentology, NOT SHOOTING PEOPLE."
If she wasn't the best-looking woman on the show right now, I'd groan.
I'm not sure what the point of contention is. She acknowledges herself that she's a geophysicist, not a mercenary. She's doing what she has to to get paid. And you seriously think Zoe (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100421041136/lostpedia/images/6/62/Zoeprofile.jpg) is better looking than Evangeline Lilly (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080809171421/lostpedia/images/3/34/Goinghomeyay.jpg)?
Post by: Halbred on May 03, 2010, 04:53:13 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 03, 2010, 04:59:14 PM
Post by: gbuell on May 03, 2010, 05:13:01 PM
Post by: Halbred on May 03, 2010, 05:29:34 PM
Sporty just doesn't do it for me. I like my girls curvy and pin-upy.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 03, 2010, 05:40:19 PM
Libby's also alive on House right now, as Wilson's ex-wife/current flame.
Sporty just doesn't do it for me. I like my girls curvy and pin-upy.
So basically the typical sexist stereotype? (Just joking) :)
Post by: Halbred on May 03, 2010, 05:46:54 PM
Post by: ThePerm on May 03, 2010, 06:50:36 PM
Post by: Halbred on May 03, 2010, 07:03:35 PM
I could go on. I watched Ugly Better for the few episodes she was on, then stopped. Then when Rebecca Romaigne was on, I watched it, then stopped again.
Anyway, I guess the point here is that since Salma Hayek is not on Lost, I've mentally lined up the actresses on the show from whatever the opposite of Salma Hayek is (Juliette Lewis, maybe?) on that line.
Organization is fun, even if it's based on superficial anatomical markers!
Post by: gbuell on May 04, 2010, 12:15:47 PM
Post by: ThePerm on May 04, 2010, 03:08:41 PM
Post by: Halbred on May 04, 2010, 03:46:53 PM
id tap Juliette Lewis assuming she was the only person left on the planet after a deadly virus destroyed the entire human population AND sheep, because, honestly, I wouldn't have a choice at that point, and these rocks? They have got to get off somehow. Luckily, the virus didn't destroy the Earth's plentiful reserve of booze, and if I drink enough, she sort of looks like Salma Hayek. So in that situation, yeah, I'd totally tap that.
Fixed that for ya. :-D
Post by: ThePerm on May 04, 2010, 05:22:09 PM
Post by: gbuell on May 05, 2010, 01:06:25 AM
Post by: ThePerm on May 05, 2010, 01:08:15 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 05, 2010, 01:12:37 AM
Sun and Jin are dead SunJeon is an orphan. Sayid sacrificed himself to save the others. Good on you Sayid, you will be missed. Frank Lapidus gets killed by a door, which sucked. I felt like Jack at the end of the episode. WHY?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 05, 2010, 01:35:51 AM
Lost :(
Sun and Jin are dead SunJeon is an orphan. Sayid sacrificed himself to save the others. Good on you Sayid, you will be missed. Frank Lapidus gets killed by a door, which sucked. I felt like Jack at the end of the episode. WHY?
Wow
So sad to see Sun and Jin die. Sayid's death to me was less tragic because he seemed to redeem himself with the sacrifice, but Jin and Sun's death seemed so pointless making it so tragic. Frank going was pretty sad but we should know to expect that kind of death from the secondary characters. I still wonder how Locke from the alternate reality will tie into this, and also what Smoke Locke meant by finishing what he started, since it appears he cannot directly kill the candidates
Post by: ShyGuy on May 05, 2010, 01:56:28 AM
Post by: vudu on May 06, 2010, 02:04:33 PM
Post by: gbuell on May 06, 2010, 02:51:47 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 06, 2010, 03:45:01 PM
Post by: broodwars on May 06, 2010, 04:08:57 PM
...Imagines the ending of Lost ending with Jacob playing Lost The Video Game on his Xbox 360 with the last line being "Natal, once you play, you will forget it is just a game"...
More like the last line being a callback to War Games: "Strange game...the only way to win is not to play."
Interesting last few episodes, though I'm annoyed that they're systematically wiping out all the characters I ever liked in the show, and I still think the parallel universe is a significantly more interesting show.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 06, 2010, 04:25:46 PM
...Imagines the ending of Lost ending with Jacob playing Lost The Video Game on his Xbox 360 with the last line being "Natal, once you play, you will forget it is just a game"...
More like the last line being a callback to War Games: "Strange game...the only way to win is not to play."
Interesting last few episodes, though I'm annoyed that they're systematically wiping out all the characters I ever liked in the show, and I still think the parallel universe is a significantly more interesting show.
I don't because they are interconnected and you are missing the point by saying it is more interesting.
Post by: broodwars on May 06, 2010, 04:40:27 PM
...Imagines the ending of Lost ending with Jacob playing Lost The Video Game on his Xbox 360 with the last line being "Natal, once you play, you will forget it is just a game"...
More like the last line being a callback to War Games: "Strange game...the only way to win is not to play."
Interesting last few episodes, though I'm annoyed that they're systematically wiping out all the characters I ever liked in the show, and I still think the parallel universe is a significantly more interesting show.
I don't because they are interconnected and you are missing the point by saying it is more interesting.
I'm well aware that the two universes are connected (you'd have to not be watching the show to miss that, considering Desmond crossed the barrier twice in one episode), but it's still a much more interesting universe. Nearly everyone has gone on to lead better lives and have more compelling stories. We'll see what comes of that once the finale pulls the string that finally bring the two universes together, but until very recently I've found the Alternate Universe "B Stories" more entertaining to watch than the plodding "A Stories" in the main universe.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 07, 2010, 01:00:57 AM
Again it appears they are going to for the big 3 separate missions going on at once. To me I still feel even though Jack is the obvious candidate I believe it is too much of a red herring and someone else will take it. I am still hoping for Hurley.
Post by: gbuell on May 07, 2010, 10:38:37 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 10, 2010, 03:05:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3T_4efeRh8&feature=PlayList&p=922CDC70A6A5FCFD&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=9
Post by: ShyGuy on May 11, 2010, 05:39:09 PM
Post by: gbuell on May 11, 2010, 06:43:22 PM
Post by: Halbred on May 11, 2010, 07:21:07 PM
Post by: gbuell on May 11, 2010, 07:52:08 PM
Also, check out the iPad thread - did you steal someone's iPad??
Post by: gbuell on May 11, 2010, 10:11:49 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 11, 2010, 10:34:16 PM
Man in Black: I want to leave the island.
Mom: You can't.
Man in Black: But why?!
Mom: Because.
Man in Black: Why can't I?
Mom: Because you can't.
Man in Black: But I found a way off the island.
Mom: No, you didn't. Wait, what? How? Impossible.
Man in Black: I'll just rig a system of pulleys and levers and use this donkey wheel to move some water so that it reflects the magic light at a 45 degree angle and...
*Mom knocks Man in Black out, buries a cave singlehandedly in a matter of hours and kills everyone*
I was waiting for Allison Janney's character to explain something, anything. It's was all subtext. Tell me you're Taweret or something! /facepalm
Post by: gbuell on May 11, 2010, 10:54:35 PM
Well, I think his mother simply didn't want him to leave the island because she had given him some "power" (the power of immortality) that shouldn't be let out in the real world. Also, I think she still wanted him to be the one to protect the island.
Yeah, the thing about the donkey wheel was pretty silly, but I kind of think they wrote themselves into a corner with that one. How could they really rationally explain how that works??
I don't have a problem with her torching the villagers and burying the cave - after all, she seems to have the power to create storms to bring people to the island, just like Jacob now has. She gave Jacob her powers, remember.
When this show abandons subtext, the answers seem spoon-fed and forced. See "the whispers" for an example. I'm glad they're letting us figure things out. For the most part, I think they explained what they needed to in this episode - the motivations of Jacob and the Man in Black, and the fact that there's a great metaphysical source of "power" on the island that can do crazy things like grant immortality and turn people's souls into smoke monsters.
Post by: Adrock on May 12, 2010, 12:18:19 AM
Well, I think his mother simply didn't want him to leave the island because she had given him some "power" (the power of immortality) that shouldn't be let out in the real world. Also, I think she still wanted him to be the one to protect the island.Jacob gets to leave the island, but I guess that's because he's the guardian. More on subtext later.
Quote
I don't have a problem with her torching the villagers and burying the cave - after all, she seems to have the power to create storms to bring people to the island, just like Jacob now has. She gave Jacob her powers, remember.I guess but she also kills Jacob and the Man in Black's mother with a rock. Just seems inconsistent.
Quote
When this show abandons subtext, the answers seem spoon-fed and forced. See "the whispers" for an example. I'm glad they're letting us figure things out. For the most part, I think they explained what they needed to in this episode - the motivations of Jacob and the Man in Black, and the fact that there's a great metaphysical source of "power" on the island that can do crazy things like grant immortality and turn people's souls into smoke monsters.Subtext only works when what is being explained is understood, not assumed. Here, we have subtext leading to nothing, no concrete conclusions. They don't need to be cryptic anymore. There are 2 episodes left. We're told that if the Man in Black leaves the island, some serious sh*t goes down, but why? If they aren't going to answer that in this episode, don't make it the crux of the episode.
Post by: ThePerm on May 12, 2010, 01:07:32 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 12, 2010, 01:19:45 AM
No name for the MIB, pretty sneaky sis. Different origin story than I suspected. She was speaking Latin in the beginning, right? Did the clothes of the "others" give a clue to their origin? They seemed to have a downward facing crescent necklace. The Egyptian statue had to come before all this happened. "Every question will only lead to more questions" LAWLZ
Post by: ShyGuy on May 12, 2010, 01:26:27 AM
There is a wheel in the beginning Conan the Barbarian. Conan is a slave and he spins the wheel for years and years, why? Who knows?
He was grinding flour at a mill. It was a reference to Samson.
Post by: ThePerm on May 12, 2010, 01:57:17 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 12, 2010, 02:26:43 AM
Now with the Smoke Monster being the MIB after being dumped into the "heart" of the island, it makes sense now when Locke said he looked at the Smoke Monster back in season one that it he seen into the eye of the island, and later told Eko he seen a beautiful light. It appears the Smoke Monster is made up of the energies of the island, so perhaps in a way he is still very much connected to the heart of the island, just some of it was converted to his form when the body was sent down
Post by: ShyGuy on May 12, 2010, 02:28:47 AM
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/shyguy70/Samson_in_the_Treadmill.jpg)
Wait, was the smoke monster the original MIB or did the smoke monster just take his form and emulate his desires?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 12, 2010, 02:39:04 AM
Samson in the Treadmill
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/shyguy70/Samson_in_the_Treadmill.jpg)
Wait, was the smoke monster the original MIB or did the smoke monster just take his form and emulate his desires?
Hmmm, good point it is possible, but it seems like it was created when the MIB went into the light (the light even went out
Post by: broodwars on May 12, 2010, 02:42:03 AM
Really nice of them to answer a couple of those questions (i.e. donkey wheel, "Adam and Eve" etc.) but seriously, what the hell?
Man in Black: I want to leave the island.
Mom: You can't.
Man in Black: But why?!
Mom: Because.
Man in Black: Why can't I?
Mom: Because you can't.
Man in Black: But I found a way off the island.
Mom: No, you didn't. Wait, what? How? Impossible.
Man in Black: I'll just rig a system of pulleys and levers and use this donkey wheel to move some water so that it reflects the magic light at a 45 degree angle and...
*Mom knocks Man in Black out, buries a cave singlehandedly in a matter of hours and kills everyone*
I was waiting for Allison Janney's character to explain something, anything. It's was all subtext. Tell me you're Taweret or something! /facepalm
That's pretty much my reaction to this episode as well. I actually really enjoy the Jacob backstory, as it's one of the few things that the writers have been moderately consistent about weaving into the show. And I really enjoyed Allison Janney when she played CJ Craig on The West Wing. But this story just doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't make sense because the characters won't let it make sense. Like a lot of things on Lost, there's a lot of running around and screaming and fighting that could have all been avoided if everyone just sat down and the person in the know explained what was going on. Before this episode, we've been led to believe that the Man in Black could not be allowed to leave the island because he was a thinly-veiled religious allegory for the manifestation of total evil. Now it's because...he apparently didn't believe in the Heart of the Cards. Hell if we know, because the Janney character never explains why. And she doesn't explain why because if she had we wouldn't have a story. Well, now that his spirit is apparently infused with evil I guess he can't be allowed to leave even more.
And are we really meant to believe that just because the mother never named the Man in Black when he was born before Janney did what she did (which could have been avoided, IMO)? In all the years they lived together, she never bothered to give him a name? And why, exactly, does Jacob keep following Janney after TMiB reveals the Truth of their origins? Jacob and he were obviously close their entire childhood and Jacob was obviously resentful of the Janney character's special treatment of TMiB, yet he stays with her after finding out everything she had done? That just makes no sense, even if you want to argue that he just really cares for her. He has no reason to trust her.
Nice to finally have a loose end tied up from the first season, though.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 12, 2010, 02:51:13 AM
How did Child in Black know how to play ancient backgammon? Because he's John Locke!
Post by: gbuell on May 12, 2010, 12:23:45 PM
Post by: ThePerm on May 13, 2010, 04:45:15 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 13, 2010, 05:18:27 AM
Post by: Plugabugz on May 13, 2010, 07:42:52 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 13, 2010, 11:41:50 AM
Post by: Plugabugz on May 13, 2010, 04:27:14 PM
Hey Plugabugz, do you watch the Lost initiative with Iain Lee for Sky1 HD?
No i don't.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 14, 2010, 07:38:29 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 14, 2010, 12:39:59 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on May 14, 2010, 01:56:32 PM
One more thing! I remember Micheal's flash back with baby Walt. The step father didn't want to take care of Walt and told Mike that "things happen when he is around". Anyone know what in blue blazes he was talking about?
Post by: Plugabugz on May 14, 2010, 02:19:34 PM
They won't answer the questions, I'm convinced half the questions won't get answered. They're just not very good at tying things up.
After seeing this episode I got to wondering about something. Some seasons back (I don't know which) Richard took a visit to a young John Locke amd showed him some items. John picked the wrong thing and Richard left all pissed. Does anyone remember what those items were? was anything in that pile from the game Jacob and darkness played?
One more thing! I remember Micheal's flash back with baby Walt. The step father didn't want to take care of Walt and told Mike that "things happen when he is around". Anyone know what in blue blazes he was talking about?
Walt is one of the things that won't get answered.
Post by: Caterkiller on May 14, 2010, 02:43:24 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 14, 2010, 02:59:45 PM
The only explanation for Walt is that he has special powers, I'm guessing all special powers in the world are tied into the glowing yellow electromagentic power on the island so he was drawn to the Island just like Ghost Seeing Hurley and Ghost Talking Miles.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 14, 2010, 10:41:34 PM
They won't answer the questions, I'm convinced half the questions won't get answered. They're just not very good at tying things up.
Is it that, or do fans just whine and complain no matter what? Seriously I see it happen with show after show, when it is a big hit fans will never be pleased, because it is discussed so much that ideas from a couple million fanbois and gurls, are bound to top a writing staff. That is why I avoid discussions on TV shows that have mysteries.
Seriously Lost is probably the best I've seen when it comes to tying up loose ends so far. They are answering the questions that matter most, not everything has to be answered.
Post by: ThePerm on May 14, 2010, 11:18:05 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 15, 2010, 04:44:00 AM
It's not necessarily that all the questions are answered, it's how things are presented.
Other Genre shows with big mythological arcs have wrapped up without too many burning questions. Buffy the Vampire Slayer tied itself up nicely and even though people didn't like the X-files ending (I liked it) It didn't leave anything important out.
Prison Break tied things up but that show sucked by the final season.
The problem is how they've presented the rules of the fiction of the Lost universe and the expectations their storytelling format created. Carlton Cuse has admitted that they created so many mysteries to hook people into the show, but if they don't deliver, it's cheating the audience.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 15, 2010, 05:18:12 AM
Personally, I'm giving Darlton the benefit of the doubt until the series is over.
It's not necessarily that all the questions are answered, it's how things are presented.
Other Genre shows with big mythological arcs have wrapped up without too many burning questions. Buffy the Vampire Slayer tied itself up nicely and even though people didn't like the X-files ending (I liked it) It didn't leave anything important out.
Prison Break tied things up but that show sucked by the final season.
The problem is how they've presented the rules of the fiction of the Lost universe and the expectations their storytelling format created. Carlton Cuse has admitted that they created so many mysteries to hook people into the show, but if they don't deliver, it's cheating the audience.
Xfiles did a horrible job of answering questions and was constantly contradicting itself, and Buffy, well not a ton to answer there.
Post by: Adrock on May 15, 2010, 05:36:54 AM
Seriously Lost is probably the best I've seen when it comes to tying up loose ends so far. They are answering the questions that matter most, not everything has to be answered.I agree and I'm pretty content with that. I take issue with the writers being pointlessly cryptic. Don't bring up the Donkey Wheel again after 2 seasons if you're not going to explain it. I was okay with the understanding that it's just part of the island and Ben and Locke used it to get off the island and that moving it caused time jumps so on and so forth. I don't really have to know how, but if they insist on attempting to explain how, then just explain it. The same goes for the Man in Black leaving the island. I understand he's not supposed to so while I'd like to know specifics outside of some serious sh*t will go down, I don't need to know. The writers established that the conflict is that he can't, not why he can't leave. That's great and all but stop cockteasing an explanation. I think that's a major disservice to the viewer and poor storytelling.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 15, 2010, 05:53:28 AM
I think the writing staff is caught though, the fans demand answers of virtually everything. Seriously though wait until the series is over before complaining.
Post by: Adrock on May 15, 2010, 03:04:13 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 15, 2010, 06:26:37 PM
1. What was the monster in the jungle? Been answered for the most part.
2. Who were the others? Been answered
3. What is the island? Still left to be answered.
4. Who is Jacob? Been answered
5. What was the Dharma Initiative? Been answered
6. Why was everything brought to the island? Been answered.
7. How do Walt and Aaron tie into things? Hasn't been answered.
Really I don't see any other questions being that important beyond those which were mostly raised in seasons 1 and 2 that were most intriguing. Everything else like the numbers (amazed they've managed to tie them into season 6 though), the statue (probably will still be answered in regards to who made it),the sickness, and various other superfluous ones, are not that important. When you have people whine about not explaining "Where the Dharma food came from" you can't win.
In regards to introducing other characters, they all had tasks to accomplish and when that was done they were expendable to the island. It has been a common theme since season 1 with even main characters dieing unnecessarily like Boone.
Post by: Adrock on May 15, 2010, 07:02:21 PM
And most of those questions haven't been answered. Kind of, but not really.
Honestly, the only thing I really want from the last 2 episodes is for the series to end with a logical conclusion, even if it's not ideal for the characters. Not every story needs a happy ending, but every story needs an appropriate ending, else the audience feels cheated. That said, I'm sure most people will not be satisfied with the ending of Lost because the writers didn't explain every last detail or mystery (and they won't). I think that's the wrong approach and those people are setting themselves up for disappointment. Every great story leaves something unexplained, but still tells you what you need to know.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 15, 2010, 07:06:02 PM
Post by: ThePerm on May 15, 2010, 09:13:26 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 15, 2010, 09:19:04 PM
The lack of answers isn't the problem, it's usually how it's been delivered.
Season 3: WHAT DOES TWO PLUS TWO EQUAL
three years of nail biting hype later...
Season 6: TWO PLUS TWO EQUALS FOUR. Except for that one time it equaled five, and we said it was two minus two in three episodes.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 15, 2010, 09:20:08 PM
im wondering about the Egypto/Carthaginian connection, but with 2 more episodes that can be anwered. Same with Walt and Aaron and that little kid the smoke monster was bothered by.
Thle little kid was the same actor who played Jacob in Across the Sea, so I'm pretty sure it was Jacob
Post by: Plugabugz on May 16, 2010, 08:12:50 AM
Post by: ThePerm on May 16, 2010, 05:49:21 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 16, 2010, 08:17:51 PM
The only show in which i'm satisfied with the ending was DS9, purely because the final TEN episodes were essentially the final march to the end of the series.
Well Lost has been feeling like a final march to the ending for quite awhile now. Pretty much this whole season has.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 17, 2010, 11:50:23 AM
The only show in which i'm satisfied with the ending was DS9, purely because the final TEN episodes were essentially the final march to the end of the series.
Well Lost has been feeling like a final march to the ending for quite awhile now. Pretty much this whole season has.
I normally would have said the same but the last episode was the first in which some significant unravelling was happening. Episode 15 of 18 in the final season of the series is too late to start doing that, which to me is why it felt like they hit the panic buttons. Everything prior (1-14, except for the Ab Aeterno episode with Richard) felt like they were shuffling everything around for the big reveal.... which now feels like its too late to resolve and smooth out.
DS9 had the 10 part serial at the end of Season 7 which tied up every remaing storyline left evenly before dealing with the main series arc in the finale. Lost hasn't done that and it feels like it's gearing up to one almighty splurge in the next week.
Post by: broodwars on May 17, 2010, 12:26:41 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 17, 2010, 12:35:35 PM
Should I not bother with this season? I came in here to ask if there is anywhere online that will catch me up on about the first ~7 or 8 episodes. They accidentally got bumped off my DVR box so I only have about the last ~11 or so episodes saved.
Post by: vudu on May 17, 2010, 02:01:01 PM
1. What was the monster in the jungle? Been answered for the most part.
No, it hasn't.
2. Who were the others? Been answered
There are a dozen questions related to the others that hasn't been answered.
3. What is the island? Still left to be answered.
Probably won't be answered.
4. Who is Jacob? Been answered
No it hasn't. Part of who is why.
5. What was the Dharma Initiative? Been answered
No it hasn't.
6. Why was everything brought to the island? Been answered.
I must have missed that episode.
7. How do Walt and Aaron tie into things? Hasn't been answered.
I bet you $10 neither will be mentioned again.
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 04:49:25 PM
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 04:50:24 PM
Post by: vudu on May 17, 2010, 05:04:53 PM
You must have missed a LOT of episodes if you don't know who the others are, what the Dharma Initiative was or why people have been brought to the island, vudu. That stuff is all completely answered in my mind.
Actually, I haven't missed a single episode.
Re: The Others
Why did they take Walt? Why do women die during pregnancy? Why the **** do they live on an island inhabited by a smoke monster?
Re: The Dharma Initiative
How did they find the island? Why did they setup all these behavior experiments? Were they really big enough to warrant having their own generic brand?
Re: Why everyone was brought to the island
There are too many questions to list. If you've got this one understood you've prematurely settled on one possible explanation and are ignoring other others.
Oh, hey, another question I just thought of (not related to the ones above): What was up with the cabin that Ben took Locke to see back in season 3 (I think)? I seem to remember Locke not seeing anyone and then when he left he heard the words help me and then some spooky **** went down.
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 05:17:10 PM
The pregnancy question doesn't specifically have anything to do with the Others, so I'm not sure why you're lumping that in there.
They live on an island inhabited by a smoke monster because Jacob brings them there ... duh.
Dharma Initiative - they are a group founded by Hanso, whose distant relative was on the Black Rock and wrote about the island in a journal that was somehow found and passed down through the Hanso family. The exact mechanics of this sequence of events won't be explained, but I don't think it's important enough to warrant it. Needless to say, Hanso found out about the special qualities of the island and funded a research group to go exploit it. He probably created the Lamp Post station to find the island - how he figured out how to do that, I'm not sure, and I don't care. But as far as what the DI actually IS, that's explained. The island has enough seemingly magical, psychological things happening on it (seeing dead people etc.) that running behavioral experiments seems perfectly natural.
Why was everyone brought to the island? Jacob brought them there in his search for a replacement. IT'S BEEN ANSWERED.
EDIT: And the cabin - pretty sure that, although the cabin was originally Jacob's, by Season 3 the cabin was actually inhabited by smoke monster/man in black/Jacob's brother. Ilana mentioned in season 5 that Jacob hadn't been there in a while, and that it was being used by "someone else". That's when she torched it. The "someone else" is certainly Man in Black, given the fact that Christian Shepherd occupied it and convinced Claire to stay on the island, and as we all know, she turned out to be on MIB's side by the end. So the "help me" was probably Man in Black talking to Locke, which is very interesting given the fact that Locke DOES turn out to help Man in Black by dying and giving MIB the opportunity to assume Locke's form.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 17, 2010, 05:19:34 PM
I haven't read a single post in this thread since page 14, and now I read the one above this post, but didn't the writers say they had an endgame during an interview back in s3 or s4? that the story was plotted out already and they knew exactly what they were doing the entire time?
They did, but why would you wait 3 episodes to the end?
Post by: vudu on May 17, 2010, 05:22:21 PM
They took Walt for the same reason they take children in general, which is the same reason Mother took the two babies in the last episode - to mold them into being a potential "protector" of the island. That's the whole reason the Others are there at all - Jacob brings them there because he is looking for someone to take over as the island's protector. I think that is exceedingly clear at this point.
But Jacob had the list of potential replacements and Walt wasn't on it. Why would the others take him?
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 05:23:41 PM
Post by: vudu on May 17, 2010, 05:29:24 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2010, 05:32:13 PM
The questions is then, How did the journal leave the island?
The behavior experiments were setup to change the Valenzeti equation. What is the Valenzeti equation? 4 8 15 16 23 42
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 05:32:37 PM
I think they're more interested in capturing and brainwashing kids because they're moldable, while full-grown adults aren't as moldable. I think Jacob's list actually applies more to adults he thinks might ALREADY be suitable for his job, without the need for excessive molding. Anyway, Jacob's a really poor manager so the Others don't always seem to do things his way. Especially when Ben Linus was the leader, because I'm convinced that he was taking orders from Man in Black by mistake.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 17, 2010, 05:33:09 PM
I haven't read a single post in this thread since page 14, and now I read the one above this post, but didn't the writers say they had an endgame during an interview back in s3 or s4? that the story was plotted out already and they knew exactly what they were doing the entire time?
They did, but why would you wait 3 episodes to the end?
Marathon. There are so many shows to watch right now and to take the suspense torture out of Lost by not watching it till it's almost over helped lighten the stress of following so many different shows.
The 1 week break between episodes and all the commercial breaks can be avoided and I can still finish the show at or around the same time as everyone else. I just wanted to avoid torrenting the 1st 7 or 8 eps when I already had them saved on my DVR box.
Are there any sites that have All of this season of Lost up for?
Is LAX pt 1 the season opener? if so then ABC & Comcast have all the current episodes, but ABC doesn't list the episode number and Comcast has LAX pt1 & 2 both listed as episode 2. so I wanted to be sure before I start marathoning.
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 05:34:00 PM
The behavior experiments were setup to change the Valenzeti equation. What is the Valenzeti equation? 4 8 15 16 23 42
What's your canon source for that?
Yes, it's unknown how the journal left the island, but I don't think that's a particularly interesting question to spend time explaining at this point.
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 05:35:05 PM
I haven't read a single post in this thread since page 14, and now I read the one above this post, but didn't the writers say they had an endgame during an interview back in s3 or s4? that the story was plotted out already and they knew exactly what they were doing the entire time?
They did, but why would you wait 3 episodes to the end?
Marathon. There are so many shows to watch right now and to take the suspense torture out of Lost by not watching it till it's almost over helped lighten the stress of following so many different shows.
The 1 week break between episodes and all the commercial breaks can be avoided and I can still finish the show at or around the same time as everyone else. I just wanted to avoid torrenting the 1st 7 or 8 eps when I already had them saved on my DVR box.
Are there any sites that have All of this season of Lost up for?
Is LAX pt 1 the season opener? if so then ABC & Comcast have all the current episodes, but ABC doesn't list the episode number and Comcast has LAX pt1 & 2 both listed as episode 2. so I wanted to be sure before I start marathoning.
LAX is the season opener, yes.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2010, 05:35:56 PM
LAX Pt1 and Pt2 is the season opener.
Post by: vudu on May 17, 2010, 05:36:12 PM
The Dharma initative was founded by Alvar Hanso, he was the great grandson of Magnus Hanso, who was the captain of the Black Rock slave ship that carried Richard Alpert to the island. According to a Dharma Initiative map, he is buried on the island. Charles Widmore was seen buying a journal of the first mate of the Black Rock at an auction, so one assumes that while exploring his family history Alvar Hanso acquired the journal and he learned about the island.
The questions is then, How did the journal leave the island?
The behavior experiments were setup to change the Valenzeti equation. What is the Valenzeti equation? 4 8 15 16 23 42
WTF
What episode was that in? Or is this from one of your stupid podcasts?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2010, 05:37:18 PM
The behavior experiments were setup to change the Valenzeti equation. What is the Valenzeti equation? 4 8 15 16 23 42
What's your canon source for that?
Yes, it's unknown how the journal left the island, but I don't think that's a particularly interesting question to spend time explaining at this point.
The mobisodes. Damon and Carlton used the same explanation on the official Lost podcast, so it's straight from the horse's mouth.
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 05:38:58 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2010, 05:39:59 PM
Post by: vudu on May 17, 2010, 05:41:49 PM
The podcasts aren't stupid, you're face is stupid.
**** this show; I should be able to watch it and understand what the **** is going on without listening to a podcast, playing stupid ARGs or joining an online community.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2010, 05:45:20 PM
Post by: vudu on May 17, 2010, 05:47:31 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2010, 05:51:01 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 17, 2010, 05:53:28 PM
They took Walt for the same reason they take children in general, which is the same reason Mother took the two babies in the last episode - to mold them into being a potential "protector" of the island. That's the whole reason the Others are there at all - Jacob brings them there because he is looking for someone to take over as the island's protector. I think that is exceedingly clear at this point.Assumed, not understood. In fact, most of the things you've said are assumptions based on partial facts the shows provides. No offense intended. I mean, you may be right, but since there's there are so few concrete answers given on the show, they don't really count as answers.
Quote
Why was everyone brought to the island? Jacob brought them there in his search for a replacement. IT'S BEEN ANSWERED.Might be part of it. On a few occasions, it's been said or suggested that Jacob brings people to the island to prove the Man in Black wrong about the nature of man who Jacob believes are inherently good. And one could argue who's really responsible for bringing the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 to the island. It's assumed (there's the word again) that Jacob caused the storm that brought the Black Rock and Richard Alpert to The Island. However, Desmond caused Flight 815 to crash by failing to press the button on time in The Swan station. As of yet, it hasn't be revealed if Jacob and Desmond ever met so Jacob has no influence over Desmond.
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 05:54:52 PM
Showing bits and pieces of random stuff without tying them together in any meaningful way does not count.
Yeah, maybe Lost isn't really your speed ... that stuff is meant to be tied together with your brain. I would hate Lost if it held your hand and walked you through explanations the way you seem to want it to.
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 05:58:34 PM
They took Walt for the same reason they take children in general, which is the same reason Mother took the two babies in the last episode - to mold them into being a potential "protector" of the island. That's the whole reason the Others are there at all - Jacob brings them there because he is looking for someone to take over as the island's protector. I think that is exceedingly clear at this point.Assumed, not understood. In fact, most of the things you've said are assumptions based on partial facts the shows provides. No offense intended. I mean, you may be right, but since there's there are so few concrete answers given on the show, they don't really count as answers.QuoteWhy was everyone brought to the island? Jacob brought them there in his search for a replacement. IT'S BEEN ANSWERED.Might be part of it. On a few occasions, it's been said or suggested that Jacob brings people to the island to prove the Man in Black wrong about the nature of man who Jacob believes are inherently good. And one could argue who's really responsible for bringing the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 to the island. It's assumed (there's the word again) that Jacob caused the storm that brought the Black Rock and Richard Alpert to The Island. However, Desmond caused Flight 815 to crash by failing to press the button on time in The Swan station. As of yet, it hasn't be revealed if Jacob and Desmond ever met so Jacob has no influence over Desmond.
Again, the necessity to come to conclusions by making logical connections between pieces of information doesn't mean the show isn't answering the questions - it means the show assumes its viewers are smart enough to figure things out without their hands being held! That, to me, is extremely refreshing. I'm very satisfied with the extent to which they are answering most of these questions.
I think it's clear that Jacob meant for 815 to crash, given that he visited a bunch of the passengers before the flight and that he had their names on a big list. Jacob has magical powers so it's extremely feasible that he could have influenced the events that caused Desmond to miss pushing the button. This is an ASSUMPTION I'm making, yes, but I think it's completely reasonable, and having enough information to make reasonable assumptions like that really should be enough!
By the way, I agree that Jacob also seems to be bringing people to show MIB that people can be good. So Jacob is bringing people to the island for two reasons. Either way, answered.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 17, 2010, 06:02:16 PM
I haven't read a single post in this thread since page 14, and now I read the one above this post, but didn't the writers say they had an endgame during an interview back in s3 or s4? that the story was plotted out already and they knew exactly what they were doing the entire time?
They did, but why would you wait 3 episodes to the end?
Marathon. There are so many shows to watch right now and to take the suspense torture out of Lost by not watching it till it's almost over helped lighten the stress of following so many different shows.
The 1 week break between episodes and all the commercial breaks can be avoided and I can still finish the show at or around the same time as everyone else. I just wanted to avoid torrenting the 1st 7 or 8 eps when I already had them saved on my DVR box.
Are there any sites that have All of this season of Lost up for?
Is LAX pt 1 the season opener? if so then ABC & Comcast have all the current episodes, but ABC doesn't list the episode number and Comcast has LAX pt1 & 2 both listed as episode 2. so I wanted to be sure before I start marathoning.
No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 06:03:51 PM
No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?
To deal with what?
Post by: Adrock on May 17, 2010, 06:53:54 PM
Again, the necessity to come to conclusions by making logical connections between pieces of information doesn't mean the show isn't answering the questions - it means the show assumes its viewers are smart enough to figure things out without their hands being held! That, to me, is extremely refreshing. I'm very satisfied with the extent to which they are answering most of these questions.Ehh, I disagree. This goes back to our discussion of subtext. Several logical conclusions can be made based on the information provided by the show. Those aren't answers; they're assumptions. For example, Tom Friendly never explicitly says he's gay, but there was enough evidence to come to that conclusion. Not that it matters in the grand scheme of the show or a anything because it doesn't. I'm just using it as an example where subtext is used correctly in helping the viewer come to a single conclusion.
Quote
I think it's clear that Jacob meant for 815 to crash, given that he visited a bunch of the passengers before the flight and that he had their names on a big list. Jacob has magical powers so it's extremely feasible that he could have influenced the events that caused Desmond to miss pushing the button. This is an ASSUMPTION I'm making, yes, but I think it's completely reasonable, and having enough information to make reasonable assumptions like that really should be enough!But, see, I can make a completely different and still reasonable assumption with the same information. What exactly got answered? Nothing. Seems to me like the writers were trying to cover their tracks and did a bad job of it. The show explicitly states that Desmond caused the crash. Kelvin Inman was secretly fixing Libby's boat, The Elizabeth, and was planning on leaving Desmond on The Island to press the button. Desmond missed pressing the button because he was following Inman, eventually killing him accidentally. Nothing about that suggests Jacob had anything to do with it, especially since we know he's not responsible for the excessive amounts of electromagnetism on The Island. Saying "Uhh, Jacob has magical powers and somehow had something to do with the crash" is cheap and, frankly, just not good enough. That's like how Metal Gear Solid 4 explained almost EVERYTHING with nanomachines. If we can just chalk every mystery up to being magic, why even bother watching the show? Some things are okay to be left up to interpretation simply. Some things are not.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 17, 2010, 06:54:46 PM
Showing bits and pieces of random stuff without tying them together in any meaningful way does not count.
Yeah, maybe Lost isn't really your speed ... that stuff is meant to be tied together with your brain. I would hate Lost if it held your hand and walked you through explanations the way you seem to want it to.
I would have to marathon Lost from teh beginning to tie together some of the stuff you guys are mentioning (not that I'm reading them, because that would be spoilerish). I guess it also helps that you guys discuss the episodes in detail after they happen and that's why you also retain so much detail from previous episodes; collective awareness or whatever.
I've been lost for most of Lost even though I get the general idea of what's going on(and alot of the other stuff too), but it always helps to jump online afterwards and read other peoples thoughts & questions about what they believed is going on and everyone together kinda sorts out all the details (with links to pics and video as prof that some people are really into a show). Unfortunately I don't have he commitment to listen to podcast, watch mini-sodes, read online comics and keep up with the detailed wiki just to know everything that's going on and helps explain everything by connecting dots that would go unnoticed had it not been for someone who did do all that pointing it out sometimes.
Now I'm gonna watch the latest episode of Community, then check out the 1st episode of lost.
Post by: MegaByte on May 17, 2010, 07:00:14 PM
Again, the necessity to come to conclusions by making logical connections between pieces of information doesn't mean the show isn't answering the questions - it means the show assumes its viewers are smart enough to figure things out without their hands being held! That, to me, is extremely refreshing.They actually broke this in the last few episodes, showing some clips that felt out of place, just to convey whatever connection point they were trying to make.
Post by: vudu on May 17, 2010, 07:41:52 PM
Showing bits and pieces of random stuff without tying them together in any meaningful way does not count.
Yeah, maybe Lost isn't really your speed ... that stuff is meant to be tied together with your brain. I would hate Lost if it held your hand and walked you through explanations the way you seem to want it to.
Great; now my intelligence is being insulted by forum members and staff alike.
I agree with Adrock; you're taking the bits and pieces that we know and extrapolating it to one possible answer and basing your arguments around it.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2010, 08:21:54 PM
Post by: gbuell on May 17, 2010, 08:37:27 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 17, 2010, 09:17:38 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 18, 2010, 01:58:05 AM
Anyway, I think the writers wrote themselves into a position where information is spoon fed to the audience in order to advance the plot when, with better planning, could have been revealed in a better, more clever way. There's a lot of stalling, a lot of false starts and, thus far, abandoned subplots. Again, I ask what exactly did Ilana add to the show. An interesting character with a loaded backstory, but nothing else. Ab Aeterno was one of the best episodes of the series, but for the 9th episode of the final season, it spent a lot of time telling the audience like 3 things. 1. Richard came to The Island on The Black Rock. 2. Jacob made it so Richard doesn't age. 3. A metaphor attempting to explain what the island. I don't need to be spoon fed information. However, I would like enough information in order to draw a logical conclusion, not 5 logical conclusions. And this has been said before, but not everything needs an explanation but I am a little confused over the priority the writers are giving certain mysteries. It was nice to know who Adam and Eve were, but ultimately, there are more pressing matters.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of the show and for the most part, they've done well in almost every aspect of the show. However, I feel like some things are being handled poorly which is normal. The writing is spotty in places. Big deal. It's still better written than most shows on currently on TV. RIP Wonderfalls.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 18, 2010, 02:55:39 AM
I actually liked that Adam and Eve scene with the flashbacks. I thought it was done well artistically and thematically. I've read that a lot of fans felt like the flashback to season one was cheap, but I got the impression that people were missing the point. I thought it was an interesting way to bring things full circle. It highlighted the opposition between Locke and Jack, faith vs. science.
Anyway, I think the writers wrote themselves into a position where information is spoon fed to the audience in order to advance the plot when, with better planning, could have been revealed in a better, more clever way. There's a lot of stalling, a lot of false starts and, thus far, abandoned subplots. Again, I ask what exactly did Ilana add to the show. An interesting character with a loaded backstory, but nothing else. Ab Aeterno was one of the best episodes of the series, but for the 9th episode of the final season, it spent a lot of time telling the audience like 3 things. 1. Richard came to The Island on The Black Rock. 2. Jacob made it so Richard doesn't age. 3. A metaphor attempting to explain what the island. I don't need to be spoon fed information. However, I would like enough information in order to draw a logical conclusion, not 5 logical conclusions. And this has been said before, but not everything needs an explanation but I am a little confused over the priority the writers are giving certain mysteries. It was nice to know who Adam and Eve were, but ultimately, there are more pressing matters.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of the show and for the most part, they've done well in almost every aspect of the show. However, I feel like some things are being handled poorly which is normal. The writing is spotty in places. Big deal. It's still better written than most shows on currently on TV. RIP Wonderfalls.
I agree, you know what I think contributed a bit? The writers strike back a couple years ago, it caused them to shorten up one season and back end this season with more episodes. Really the best seasons of TV I've seen have had shorter seasons that were more focused, I worried about filler episodes or "stretching things out" when I heard about more episodes being added to the final two seasons of Lost because of the strike. Really though the final two episodes will be the test, not in answering a ton of questions but seeing if they can give the series a decent, fulfilling end.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 18, 2010, 08:38:25 AM
No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?
To deal with what?
Everything you guys have been speaking of.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 18, 2010, 10:04:15 AM
1) The mother had a task to do. Like pushing the button, it was a tedious task that has weighed on her heart, and she was ready to pass the responsibility on. She caused the pregnant woman to come to the island, to raise a replacement for her. I believe she was truly surprised that their were 2 babies.
2) The mother had more in common with the man in black. She was a liar and a murderer. She saw that he was not naive (like Jacob) and not innocent. I think she saw herself in him and wanted him to be the guardian. She didn't want him to leave, because she needed someone to take her place, and he was her pick. Also, she believed the outside world was tainted...and possibly, possibly she truly believed there was no way off the island.
3) Secrets: One of the themes of Lost is the theme of secrets and how they can destroy relationships, kill people, and cause great harm. Since the first season secrets has been kept and it has been detrimental to everyone on the island. The woman for some reason did not want to share her knowledge of the place. Either she didn't know herself or she was keeping secrets again. Those secrets hurt both Jacob and the Man in Black. She never prepared either of them for their true tasks.
4) The Man in Black and Smoke Monster. People are looking at them as the same person. I think it is safe to say that they are not the same person. The real Man in Black died after Jacob pushed him into light. Now his soul may be trapped in that monster, but the Man in Black's body is dead. This is an important distinction because the reason MIB can't leave the island as a child is different than why Smoke Monster can't leave. If the Smoke Monster leaves evil or darkness will spread across Earth, and this evil can potentially corrupt and destroy the everything in the world....if you believe Jacob.
5) Going back. I find their Mothers interesting. She states she made it where they can't kill each other. Yet, they can hit and hurt each other...yet she did not protect herself from death. Why? She wanted to die...and she knew Jacob could never do it. She was tired and thankful that MIB killed her. Too bad, Jacob couldn't understand.
Last episode was good, if not great, it gave us many answers, and added to the mythos of Lost while keeping with the continual themes of Lost...and I think the episode continued to do a good job balancing the science with the spiritual.
Post by: gbuell on May 18, 2010, 01:48:28 PM
No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?
To deal with what?
Everything you guys have been speaking of.
They've been dealing with things all season...
Post by: gbuell on May 18, 2010, 01:50:37 PM
However, I would like enough information in order to draw a logical conclusion, not 5 logical conclusions.
I think that's exactly what we're being given. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 18, 2010, 03:42:32 PM
No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?
To deal with what?
Everything you guys have been speaking of.
They've been dealing with things all season...
Everything prior to the last ep (from episodes 1-14, except the Richard one) has had the broader aim of shuffling around everyone like chess pieces to the big reveal. The only thing that was revealed properly without 50 other questions (like the numbers in the cave) was with Michael and the ghosts.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 18, 2010, 04:15:50 PM
Post by: gbuell on May 18, 2010, 06:50:59 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 19, 2010, 12:27:03 AM
No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?
To deal with what?
Everything you guys have been speaking of.
They've been dealing with things all season...
Everything prior to the last ep (from episodes 1-14, except the Richard one) has had the broader aim of shuffling around everyone like chess pieces to the big reveal. The only thing that was revealed properly without 50 other questions (like the numbers in the cave) was with Michael and the ghosts.
Actually this is what frustrates me about Lost fans. They want answers, and forget that the story isn't about the answers, but about the characters. One of the best aspects of Lost was watching the characters piece things together. Sometimes you knew something the characters didn't and would be like "They're screwed." Or sometimes certain characters had information others didn't and you saw how each reacted to it.
For example one of my favorite scenes is in Season 3. Sawyer has just found out they are on another Island. Jack doesn't know this and he decides to make a big play to save his people. And cuts Ben open. Ben only has minutes to live...and Jack is hoping that time will be used to get Sawyer and Kate to safety...except they can't leave the small island. Brilliant.
This show has always been about processing the information given and figuring it out. Sometimes it is left for the audience to decide meaning. Therefore what is important is not what is really happening. But what the characters believe is happening, and how they react. That said we have gotten a lot of answers this season. Some of the more harder to conceptualize has been spoon fed to us. Others have been contextual. But the answers are coming. And the characters have been behaving more naturally and believable since season 4.
Finally, I think it is important to realize each season has a theme. The first season was about the mystery. The second was about realizing you are not alone and a battle for survival is building. The third was about the others and who they are. ect....This season is about Jacob and Ben, but more importantly about following through with destiny and taking that step to belief and renewal of yourself and your identity.
Why are you back on the island, what is important to you, what do you believe about the island and yourself?
And so far it has not only seen the characters go through those questions but us as well. Specially with the sideways universe which we thought that coming to the island was the BEST thing that could happen to them...but their lives were not as messed up before the island as we believed.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 19, 2010, 01:35:08 AM
Good episode, good buildup. Ben is back, but I don't think he is evil, just conning the smoke monster. I don't think Richard is dead yet. Widmore and Zoe got what was coming to them. Jacob finally spilled the beans and the remaining candidates got to talk to him face to face. I guess Jack has super powers now?
The flash sideways was even better and Desmond is a boss! Locke is gonna get fixed and all the candidates are going to let go and wake up. Bring on the Sunday finale
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 19, 2010, 03:01:08 AM
L O S T
Good episode, good buildup. Ben is back, but I don't think he is evil, just conning the smoke monster. I don't think Richard is dead yet. Widmore and Zoe got what was coming to them. Jacob finally spilled the beans and the remaining candidates got to talk to him face to face. I guess Jack has super powers now?
The flash sideways was even better and Desmond is a boss! Locke is gonna get fixed and all the candidates are going to let go and wake up. Bring on the Sunday finale
It twas a great segway into what should be an exciting series finale.
While I hope Richard is Ok that was so cool how he was hit by the smoke monster lol. BTW I have to say I am glad they don't show Locke changing into it, I think our imagination is better then anything they could do with CGI. You know? This episode just reminds me yet again of what an excellent cast they have. All the regulars are great.
Whitmore getting killed was really surprising too. I also liked how Jack became the candidate, it leaves the series finale free to do more.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 19, 2010, 03:25:05 AM
Post by: Plugabugz on May 19, 2010, 03:57:05 AM
No i meant (to the writers) why would you wait 3 episodes to the end to deal with it?
To deal with what?
Everything you guys have been speaking of.
They've been dealing with things all season...
Everything prior to the last ep (from episodes 1-14, except the Richard one) has had the broader aim of shuffling around everyone like chess pieces to the big reveal. The only thing that was revealed properly without 50 other questions (like the numbers in the cave) was with Michael and the ghosts.
Actually this is what frustrates me about Lost fans.
Lost is one of those shows where the island and what goes on there is as important as the characters themselves (back in the pilot, would you be interested if a character falls out of an aircraft or about the polar bear suddenly chasing them?) so they need equal weight to develop and mature properly.
If you were to watch Stargate Universe however, you'd see the polar opposite in which the characters are given so much attention (especially in the opening 10 episodes) it essentially becomes a "drama in a sci-fi backdrop". The Stargate itself, the titular device in the franchise, doesn't even appear for several episodes because the characters are given so much focus and even go back to earth in several cases the story itself feels dangerously slow.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 19, 2010, 09:00:38 AM
Post by: Plugabugz on May 19, 2010, 09:02:52 AM
Stargate Universe is supposed to be feel more like BSG, right?
They say no (and to be honest it isn't like BSG, its not depressing) but the comparisons are inevitable. Stargate Universe is FAR more character driven, even though its premise is set on a automated spaceship that is flying farther and farther from earth, its not Star Trek Voyager either.
Post by: vudu on May 19, 2010, 01:23:04 PM
Post by: gbuell on May 19, 2010, 05:24:20 PM
Why would Locke tell Ben that he's going to blow up the island? The only reason Ben's helping Locke is so he can have the island to himself!
Good question, that seems like a bit of a goof on the writers' part to me as well. I'm convinced that Ben is pulling a con on Locke anyway though.
Post by: Adrock on May 19, 2010, 06:54:03 PM
Anyway, I get the impression that Jack being The Island's new guardian is a red herring. He's either going to give up the position to someone else (Ben) or find a way for The Island to no longer need a guardian (destroy the Smoke Monster/trap him on the island forever). If there's a little bit of the Source in each person, maybe the point is for people to regain whatever it is, thus negating the purpose of The Island and its need for a guardian. What if Lost was never about a bunch of people lost and stranded on an island, but about something that humanity lost? Weird.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 19, 2010, 10:16:48 PM
As for Ben's motivations...Ben has never been evil per say. He has always been just about himself. He wants to survive. I don't believe Ben ever cared about the island...which is why Jacob never appeared to him. Instead, Ben has first and foremost been about his own survival. This is why he is a liar, he can't help himself. I think Ben is doing what he must to survive. He doesn't care about the smoke monster, or the island...just his own survival. The only thing he might of cared about is his daughter but no matter what side he chooses he can't have her back.
I don't think we will see Jack with super powers...that isn't how Jacob works...we never saw him with secret powers. The image I always get of LOST finishing is Jack and Locke together alone on the island...and the conversation Jacob had with MIB will be repeated. Except, when Locke says he is going to kill Jack...Jack repeats "Not if I can kill you first."
Actually there is one other ending I have in mind, but I won't reveal that one.
Post by: ThePerm on May 19, 2010, 10:43:14 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 19, 2010, 11:20:31 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 20, 2010, 01:54:26 AM
/queue techno music
Jack and Locke use their Animalities.
That's how I envisioned Lost ending. It's the only logical way to end the series...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 20, 2010, 04:03:38 AM
Post by: Plugabugz on May 20, 2010, 07:46:36 AM
Post by: gbuell on May 20, 2010, 10:52:49 AM
I don't think we will see Jack with super powers...that isn't how Jacob works...we never saw him with secret powers.
Well, I think Jacob created the storm that brought the Black Rock to the island. And he can magically get off the island, and he can heal people by touching them. But besides that, yeah, he can't shoot lasers from his fingers or anything.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 20, 2010, 06:19:58 PM
So, when I say I don't think we will see Jack with Super Powers...it just means now that Jack is like Jacob....doesn't mean seeing amazing abilities.
Post by: Halbred on May 21, 2010, 03:15:15 PM
Post by: vudu on May 23, 2010, 09:37:22 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 23, 2010, 09:51:27 PM
Post by: vudu on May 23, 2010, 10:38:14 PM
Post by: vudu on May 23, 2010, 11:31:06 PM
We'll talk tomorrow.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 24, 2010, 02:34:25 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 24, 2010, 02:44:50 AM
Spoilers don't matter any more. The unanswered questions don't matter. What a great ending to the show.
Post by: Caterkiller on May 24, 2010, 02:46:53 AM
I am only dissapointed with one little thing, what about the brothas? Walt and Mike!?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 24, 2010, 03:14:38 AM
Post by: ThePerm on May 24, 2010, 03:53:57 AM
the ending was familiar... go watch Passengers with Anne Hathaway....
i don't know 2 + 2 =4, but in the lost world 2+2= ((20+20)/10) - ((4+ (-2)) * 2)-8)+4)+6
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 24, 2010, 04:01:08 AM
Lost trys to have its cake and eat it too, it has scifi with the time travel and the alternate reality, mythology with the cartho/egypto gods, it has religions with the whole ending.
the ending was familiar... go watch Passengers with Anne Hathaway....
i don't know 2 + 2 =4, but in the lost world 2+2= ((20+20)/10) - ((4+ (-2)) * 2)-8)+4)+6
I read the spoiler for that movie, it isn't like Lost's ending at all.
The world that was created in the alternate verse was kind of a holding world that is outside of time, some of the characters died previously, some long after Jack dies on the island. The island was real as were the events. It falls back to a repeated statement "Everyone dies"
Post by: ThePerm on May 24, 2010, 04:18:38 AM
I find there to be a dichotomy of being "the next level of the game" and also being an alternate reality. That is like saying when you go to another country you'll be pregnant, people will be shooting at you, you've got kids that apparently aren't real, you'll be married to people, and until you remember who you actually are your just going to live in this strange world that seems to be active despite you. Its like some crazy Descarte/Bhagivad Gita stuff. On one hand it brings up the philosophical question is this all going on in my head, and everyone else is a false perception, and or are things working independently of me? Locke says he Jack doesn't have a son, and he could be correct, it is really strange though that this false perception got cooked up just so he can move on to the "next next level of the game", because if I were playing a game that would be the weirdest level. I would hope the "next next level" wouldn't have stupid redundancies. Thats why I say 2+2= ((20+20)/10) - ((4+ (-2)) * 2)-8)+4)+6, instead of 4 = 4, but even the beginning is a redundancy when you can just say 4. The creators have been saying that the characters are not in purgatory(from the plane crash) the whole time, but the flash sideways was kinda like purgatory(although they werent like ghosts and they all didn't die at the same time)
Post by: ShyGuy on May 24, 2010, 04:45:05 AM
Post by: ThePerm on May 24, 2010, 04:53:20 AM
Post by: Sundoulos on May 24, 2010, 09:56:05 AM
Post by: Halbred on May 24, 2010, 03:44:06 PM
Why were Kate, Claire, and Sawyer there at the end? Why WASN'T Lapitus and Miles? I ARE CONFUSEDED.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 24, 2010, 04:44:25 PM
They had 18 and a half hours to tie up, or even talk about, everything else.
Vudu can claim his $10 bet.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 24, 2010, 07:31:46 PM
I DIDN'T GET IT.
Why were Kate, Claire, and Sawyer there at the end? Why WASN'T Lapitus and Miles? I ARE CONFUSEDED.
It is easy, the people there were those that grew most connected to each other, the originals so to speak. The purgatory is outside of time, so Kate, Sawyer and Claire most likely lived long lives and died. This is also shown quite clearly by Hurley and Ben when he said that Ben made a great number 2. Why do you think Kate told Jack it was a long time? She was referencing the real world. This place was a world created by those with the strongest bonds to each other. Lapitus nor Miles were ever significant to lives of those in the church.
The show went out full circle, about the characters, and the theme that was consistent throughout the series, redemption. What was the island? Who knows, though for those characters it was their way to salvation, especially Jack.
Post by: Adrock on May 24, 2010, 10:03:01 PM
And I beg to differ regarding Miles. He spent 3 years in Dharmaville with Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, and (kind of) Faraday, who was also MIA from the final scene. Miles had to mean something to some of them. Also, I thought there was no Michael in the final scene because he's still trapped on The Island, punishment or serving time for killing Ana Lucia and Libby, even though he died postponing the Kahana from exploding sooner, saving many of them. It just seemed like the final scene was poorly planned.
All in all, I liked the ending, but it wasn't great. Fitting but kind of cheap. The whole "We can't answer everything" line isn't a free get out jail card. They wrote the show, they wrote themselves into those dead ends and ultimately that's poor storytelling. So I only buy that excuse to a certain degree. For the most part, I didn't mind letting go of some of those nagging questions. However, others I was like "Really, not going to touch on that?" They did bring back Juliet (who seemed ridiculously tall the entire episode for some reason) so that was about all I needed to enjoy the finale.
The only things I absolutely detested were all the Jesus references. It wasn't even subtle. I'm not anti-religion, I just felt like it was heavy handed.
My favorite line: "You're not John Locke. You disrespect his memory by wearing his face, but you're nothing like him. It turns out he was right about most everything. I just wish I could have told him that while he was still alive."
Post by: ThePerm on May 24, 2010, 10:32:42 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 24, 2010, 11:43:32 PM
About Miles, he never made a really strong connection with anyone there. Yeah he was with them for awhile but he never fell in love or got really close to anyone there. Most of the time he was more interested in saving his own skin.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2010, 12:52:00 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 25, 2010, 12:53:29 AM
I like to think that Miles and Lapidus made more important connections after they left the island, and Moved on in a different way than the Losties.
Good point, to those at the church, the most important connections they ever made were to those on the island.
BTW what is up with Ben not going into the church? My only theory is that he is now the protector of the island after Hugo gave it up, and since he is like Jacob probably has the ability to be aware of the purgatory realm.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2010, 01:26:24 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 25, 2010, 01:30:32 AM
Hmm, I never thought of that, it makes sense. I figured he still wanted to make amends with Alex, His Father, and Rousseau.
Very possible. That is why I liked the ending, I don't think there is a right answer beyond the fact that they all didn't die in the plane crash, something the creators have stressed for quite awhile.
I wonder what the wreckage with no life around it was for though at the end?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2010, 01:46:35 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 25, 2010, 01:54:01 AM
I bet the wreckage footage was shot way back at the beginning of season one.
That is what I thought, it was kind of a homage to the pilot. If the wreckage was shown pre "LOST" symbol it would probably mean something which it wasn't.
You know the more I think about Lost's ending I think it was almost perfect, I mean it was brilliantly written and directed. It wrapped up the lives of all the characters we cared most about.
About the mysteries, I'll admit I was disappointed some weren't wrapped up, but you know it was smart. Lost will live on for years to come with people debating the clues in the show and coming to their own conclusions. For example with the smoke monster, did anyone else notice the skeletons in the cavern with the light?What was their meaning, could they have been previous vessels for the smoke monster?
I loved how the creators made the analogy Jacob gave Richard of what the island was keeping contained with a cork, turns out it was a mystical cork. Hilarious stuff.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 25, 2010, 09:58:52 AM
He was never and will never be connect with the Losties the same way. He never really garnered their trust...except for 3 people. Now, I am still processing everything with the story. I feel that it was smart not to give all the answers and the ending was amazing. But, I have a weird feeling from the experience, like it is resolved, but I don't know what to think or how to feel about it.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 25, 2010, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: Caterkiller on May 25, 2010, 12:50:19 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2010, 02:25:50 PM
Post by: Plugabugz on May 25, 2010, 02:57:39 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2010, 03:59:21 PM
Walt
Kate
Sawyer
Nope, only three!
(Jacob was worse than Man in Black ever was)
Post by: Plugabugz on May 25, 2010, 04:07:43 PM
Lesse...
Walt
Kate
Sawyer
Nope, only three!
(Jacob was worse than Man in Black ever was)
And Claire!
Post by: Caterkiller on May 25, 2010, 04:07:54 PM
The babies issue was caused by the incident. The electromagnetic glowing yellow light boosts the immune system and causes the mother's body to attack itself.
Oh well then, how about that! Wish I noticed that when it was explained. Was there any reason why Sun and Claire were ok? Was it because Desmond didn't push the button so electro energy was released and didn't disrupt anyone's body?
Also I don't think it was ever explained what was happening when Ben took Lock to see Jacob and stuff started flying around everywhere. Ben later admitted he lied about talking to Jacob(as if he were invisible) but also revealed he was very surprised when things started flying around the room. Could it have just been the smoke monster but we couldn't tell cause it was so dark and he turned his funny noises on mute?
Also was the smoke monster some kind of ancient god/diety?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2010, 04:21:27 PM
Claire was impregnated off the island so she didn't have her full pregnancy in the electromagnetic radiation.
Sun got off the island before it killed her.
Post by: kraken613 on May 25, 2010, 06:16:24 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 25, 2010, 06:34:18 PM
Jesus references? The church that everyone was gathered in had symbols from various religions and it never favored one religion over another. It would be wrong for the show to detach itself from from the faith/spirituality aspects since that was a theme from the very beginning. Really I think you are reaching to say it had "Jesus" references. Religious references? Definitely. Eko was probably the most Christian character they had and he died quite awhile back.Really? How many shots of that big statue of Jesus were there in the finale? If it's more than 1, it's too many. It wasn't even in the background. The statue was right in front of the camera so I don't think I'm reaching at all.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2010, 06:45:42 PM
oddly, Carlton Cuse is Catholic, but Damon Lindelof is Jewish.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 25, 2010, 07:22:50 PM
Post by: MegaByte on May 25, 2010, 07:25:01 PM
Then Christian Shepherd led them all to heaven.Though they made fun of the name right in the show.
Post by: ThePerm on May 25, 2010, 08:06:56 PM
Post by: Stogi on May 25, 2010, 08:39:56 PM
After watching the finale...would you recommend watching the series?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2010, 09:00:24 PM
So....
After watching the finale...would you recommend watching the series?
Absolutely, this goes up there with X-files, Buffy, and Angel as great genre television.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 25, 2010, 10:55:22 PM
Jesus references? The church that everyone was gathered in had symbols from various religions and it never favored one religion over another. It would be wrong for the show to detach itself from from the faith/spirituality aspects since that was a theme from the very beginning. Really I think you are reaching to say it had "Jesus" references. Religious references? Definitely. Eko was probably the most Christian character they had and he died quite awhile back.Really? How many shots of that big statue of Jesus were there in the finale? If it's more than 1, it's too many. It wasn't even in the background. The statue was right in front of the camera so I don't think I'm reaching at all.
Wow, just wow. So you missed all the other symbols of various other religions?
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2010, 11:34:29 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 26, 2010, 12:08:20 AM
However, at the end of the series very little of what actually happened is Christian doctrine. And the ending was quite good. Perfect? No. But very well done. And better than I thought they could have achieved.
Post by: Adrock on May 26, 2010, 12:32:40 AM
Wow, just wow. So you missed all the other symbols of various other religions?Are you obtuse? (2 points for those who get that reference) Yes, I saw it. I get it. The camera focused on that stained glass window for roughly 13 minutes. They didn't make the religious symbolism and references a secret. There was just a lot more Jesus in the finale. What is so hard to understand about that? I didn't see big, in your face Yin and Yang symbols sprinkled throughout the episode. I didn't like director Jack Bender force feeding me all that Jesus, front and center in all those scenes, especially when the writers already wrote it into the dialog and plot. That's no longer subliminal let alone subtle. That's "Here's Jesus. Don't you get it yet? No, here he is again." Maybe that was the point; I just didn't like it. That's not artistic, it's obnoxious. It appeals to the lowest common denominator, for people too dense to get it any other way. Disagree? Fine. Don't treat me like I'm an idiot. I'm just saying, not my thing.
Post by: ThePerm on May 26, 2010, 01:32:37 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purusharthas
"We are overwhelmed by our very human need to weave a web of meaning where there may be none. Since time immemorial, ancient peoples have dressed up their lack of knowledge as gods and demons. I have discovered that sometimes, the fates of gods and mortals intertwine – and legends are born..."
James George Frazer
that describes Lost
Post by: ShyGuy on May 26, 2010, 01:34:48 AM
I thought the allegory was much more subtle than the Matrix 3 or the Chronicles of Narnia.
Post by: Adrock on May 26, 2010, 05:15:59 PM
There's nothing inherently wrong with religion or Jesus or what have you. That's not my problem with it. The extent to which they to ram it down everyone's throats was distracting. It was already obvious without going the extra 10 miles.
And just because the allegory is less subtle than other things, doesn't mean it still wasn't overdone.
Post by: Caterkiller on May 27, 2010, 03:04:10 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 27, 2010, 03:09:55 AM
Now now guys and gals, you're all wrong. Settled right? On to more important things, what exactly were the numbers again?
Numbers, symbols created by man to make sense of the world.
There you go.
Seriously the numbers could never really have a good explanation, they are just there and are interwoven with the lives of the characters there. They are also the Valenzetti Equation which is an apocalypse equation brought up in one of the Lost mini episodes.
Also here are some neat little tidbits.
There will be a bonus feature with the complete set that will have 15 minutes of footage dealing with the Ben and Hurley years.
http://tv.ign.com/articles/109/1093234p1.html (http://tv.ign.com/articles/109/1093234p1.html)
In addition in the season 6 set there will be 20 minutes in additional footage from The End that will answer some questions that is still in production. Then Damon and Carlton will address some others in a "humorous" way.
Oh yeah about the wreckage scene at the end, ABC admitting they added it themselves to let everyone cool down emotionally before the news.
Also Jesus made the Temple and the statue.
Post by: ThePerm on May 27, 2010, 03:47:32 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 27, 2010, 03:54:12 AM
yes, he made the Statue of Taweret(sp?) circa 300 BC
Time is relative on the island.
Post by: gbuell on May 27, 2010, 11:36:06 AM
I didn't take the couple of shots of a statue of Jesus as being ramming religion down our throats at all. If you took it that way, I'd say you're oversensitive. I didn't even realize it was a statue of Jesus until it was brought up on this thread. It really seems like going out of your way to find something to take issue with.
Post by: gbuell on May 27, 2010, 11:39:26 AM
Post by: Sundoulos on May 27, 2010, 04:45:38 PM
Post by: vudu on May 27, 2010, 05:05:09 PM
How LOST should have ended (http://senorgif.com/2010/05/27/funny-gifs-how-it-really-ended/)
Oh man, that's fantastic!
Does anyone know where to find the "alternate endings" they were hyping up for the Jimmy Kimmel show?
Post by: MegaByte on May 27, 2010, 05:21:07 PM
Does anyone know where to find the "alternate endings" they were hyping up for the Jimmy Kimmel show?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyKyjeRodd4
Post by: vudu on May 27, 2010, 05:37:27 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 27, 2010, 06:18:21 PM
Also Jesus made the Temple and the statue.I would've taken that. At least they would've answered something no matter how absurd instead of negating 95% of the previous 5 seasons of the show.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 27, 2010, 07:34:30 PM
If you say:
They were ghosts.
Aliens did it.
It was Time Travel.
Advanced Robots.
They are vampires
People will go "Oh, okay that makes sense"
But if you said the person doesn't age and the rules say they can't touch garlic or be exposed to sunlight people will go "WTF they are making it up as they go along!"
Also, if you can tie it back into existing history or legend people will accept it.
You make up a hairless creature that sucks goats blood people won't except it, but it you say "The ancient legend of the Chupacabra" they think it's fine.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 27, 2010, 10:13:36 PM
Post by: ThePerm on May 28, 2010, 02:02:47 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 28, 2010, 02:16:56 AM
well season 4 got hurt by the writers strike, the series seemed to lose some steam after that. The next couple of seasons were good, but not in a first season sort of way. I think though lost proves that networks need to start some real intense planning when they create a series. I really hate how things are based on ratings(which i think for the most part are completely inaccurate), and i hope that changes in the future, DVD sales, and network hits should be a greater draw on how things get made.
This year they have adjusted how they view ratings, it isn't soley dependent on Neilson anymore, which is why we are saying more shows being renewed this year who had lower Neilson ratings since they are taking into account other ways of viewing it such as DVR and online. Also why we may be seeing more product placement in shows. Seasons 5 and 6 were my favorite of Lost.
Post by: ThePerm on May 28, 2010, 01:11:55 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 28, 2010, 03:15:22 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 28, 2010, 07:44:57 PM
1) The religious complaints have already been answered, but I will say personally for me it wasn't over done, nor was it too much one religion or another, and just because a statue of Jesus was shown doesn't mean they were pushing Christianity...in fact as a Christian I find the story rather confusing as any form of Christian allegory.
2) About answers to the island. I think one of the best parts of Lost is only knowing what the characters know....and only understanding what they understand. Remember Danielle once said the smoke monster was a security system. We took that as absolute fact, but in reality she had no idea what it was. Where does this place learning about the island and the light? It is obvious not even Jacob or the MIB understood what the light or island was. Jacob was told very little from his mom about the light and island. And he protected it the best he could. His mother probably wasn't the first protector and probably didn't know everything.
So this means we don't know everything. Now this may bother some people, but the writers of Lost have always said they were more focused on writing about the Characters and their drama instead of focusing on the island. It means that characters acted on one understanding that we also believed but something else entirely happened. (Charlie dying to send the helicopters to save Claire.)
I think we got most of the important questions answered, and some questions left unanswered were probably dropped story arcs or are elements you can probably fill in the blanks with what we know now. The hardest one to deal with is why was Walt special and what could he do. But the Walt storyline was dropped because the actor was growing too fast.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 28, 2010, 07:58:47 PM
"Walt is special" is unacceptable to the viewer
"Walt is a superhero" is acceptable to the viewer
"Walt was born with psychic powers" is acceptable to the viewer
Not a criticism of Spak-Spang or anybody else, just an observation about people and fiction.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 29, 2010, 06:43:45 AM
The same applies to the Egyptian influence on the island. Now whether they came before the MIB or not is up in the air, since the evil that made up the smoke monster from the corpse of the MIB could have came into existence prior (explaining the skeletons in the cave with the light source). Basically the struggle we seen between Jacob and the MIB may not have been the first, nor the last to occur on the island. Or the Egyptian references to the smoke monster may have been created after the events between Jacob and his brother. Who knows, but the speculation is much more fun then getting an answer that may or may not be satisfactory.
The clues are there, that to me is all that matters, it reminds me of Stephen King's Colorado Kid, a detective mystery novel, it has not "answer" to the death but there are enough clues to make our own conclusion. I have little doubt the creators of Lost have their own answers to the questions raised. I mean if they wrote into the show that the cave and the mystical cork containing the essence of the island was created by an original civilization living there, like oh, the city of Atlantis, would that have been better? Don't think so.
Now about Walt, his task may have been completed when he got Locke out of the pit after being shot by Ben in season 3, because that set into motion the events leading up to the end. Perhaps he had a psychic link to the island, consciously or subconsciously and accomplished what he needed to.
Anyways It is neat to think of the events of Lost being from the perspective of those on the island like Spak brought up. It opened up a unique way of telling the story when we knew the people were flawed and were not always correct in what they said. Ben being the perfect example of saying things that were not necessarily true.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 29, 2010, 06:53:35 AM
I enjoyed Lost for what it was, and I knew it would never give me everything, and I was happy to get the answers we got. So we can argue about the show and missteps all we want...everything has them, even the best classical literature can be improved. Stories are never perfect...but sometimes the imperfects can make them better.
Post by: gbuell on May 30, 2010, 11:07:59 AM
Post by: Sundoulos on June 01, 2010, 02:15:43 PM
http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2010/05/29/lost-meets-lucasarts/
I wish I hadn't looked. Now I wish that was an actual game.
Post by: broodwars on June 05, 2010, 01:08:58 PM
My general impression of the ending: "What? That's it?" I'm fine with the ending being emotion/character-based, but I just didn't find it very satisfying and given the sheer number of unexplained BS it seems pretty obvious the writers didn't have any idea how they were going to explain anything. Instead, they just piled on the "mysteries" to try to make the sheer number of them hide just how gimmicky this series is.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 08, 2010, 01:15:45 PM
How does that make all of you feel?
Personally I've decided to not even bother watching the final season now.
Post by: ShyGuy on June 08, 2010, 01:44:42 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 08, 2010, 02:33:03 PM
No, it doesn't reveal that.
So I was misinformed, not spoiled and should proceed to watch the entire last season at some point this summer?
Post by: ShyGuy on June 08, 2010, 06:51:33 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 08, 2010, 06:54:15 PM
Post by: MegaByte on June 08, 2010, 06:56:56 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on June 08, 2010, 08:53:49 PM
Post by: kraken613 on June 20, 2010, 06:23:48 PM
Post by: gbuell on June 20, 2010, 07:15:31 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on June 22, 2010, 03:16:58 PM
She wouldn't be the first person who thought that, but I don't know how they could come to that conclusion when they flat out state the opposite.
The ending part during the credits confused a lot of people. They show plan Oceanic Flight 815 wreckage and no one around, supposedly added by ABC as a "decompressor," and just about half the people misread it as meaning the show never really happened.
Post by: kraken613 on June 29, 2010, 12:59:16 AM
That was satisfying which is more than most shows can say. I still don't know exactly what happened but it makes you think.
