Topic: Next Pokemon RPG will be on DS - Pokemon Diamond and Pearl

[RABicle]

Messy Ness, your post, which you snuck in while I was typeing my post, is exactly the kind of weak attitude that has seen Pokémon become the stagnated series it it. Your fear of any changes to the series is the reason that we continually get ripped off with half arsed versions of Pokémon (ie. Yellow, Crystal and Emerald) and bullshit home system games like Stadium and Colloseum.
If the amrio series suffered from such irrational fear of progress then we'd still be stuck with games just like Mario Bros. 1. Pokémon was amazing when we all first played it because it was completely new. It needs to stay new.


I like your idea Nemesis of Satan, the only real problem I can see is that humans and dogs wern't really around with Pterodactals but its certainly a good idea to have the games delve into where these legendary pokemon came from. I prefer that to the way they just suprise us with new legendary pokémon every game. I mean the label 'legendary' becomes less signifigant everytime.

And Mario we are the ones that should be making Pokémon games, not those fools over at Creatures, Game Freak and the Pokémon Company. Argh so many ideas!

[SatansNemesis]

That is true, if we get "new" legendary pokemon every game, it becomes "oh wow, another rare and semi-all powerful pokemon that is of [insert generic legendary pokemon type such as fire, lightning, ice or psychic]. I'll just add it to the other two dozen one of a kind powerful [insert generic legendary pokemon type such as fire, lightning, ice or psychic] pokemon that I have."

lol, that would then lead some to think "I have all the powerful pokemons so I am the best and I roxorz!!!111!1one"

Maybe they could make a game where you catch the same original legendary ones, but they have difficult to get evolved forms? Sounds less redundant. Could even have a way to add on extera story surrounding it.

[Gamefreak]

Maybe the best graphics style to have would be to keep the overhead view and have it in the style of Four Swords GCN: high level 2D graphics with 3D special effects. That would be the overworld of course.

For the battles i'd like it to be in full 3D but not like the Stadium games. Something that looks closer to the 2D art for the game or the cartoons. I think cel-shading can be used effectively to make the battles look very close to that. Also, I'd like for the battles to actually be detailed you know. Like while you are deciding on what to do the pokemon shouldn't just the standing there looking dumb. They could be moving around the field, circling each other, making sounds, you know, things to just make it a better game. And when you give an order the attack should actually look like it's supposed to. For example if you tell charizard to use flamethrower, he should actually breathe out fire and it should actually hit the enemy and it should all look like it's supposed to like with proper physics, not like the pathetic stadium games (i've never played colisseum but i imagine it's the same) and definately not like the GBA games where they don't animate at all and the battle animations are always the same and not even good-looking.
I wonder if GameFreak even knows how to do 3D graphics.
I wouldn't be surprised if they can't without help from another one of Nintendo's studios. For example Intelligent Systems is the master of 2D games but the only 3D game they've attempted that I know of is Fire Emblem GCN (Advance Wars on Cube is not by IntSys) and that game has the most simple mixed 3D and 2D graphics I've ever seen.  

[Bill Aurion]

"For example Intelligent Systems is the master of 2D games but the only 3D game they've attempted that I know of is Fire Emblem GCN"

Paper Mario?

[Gamefreak]

Oh yeah, but that's different....the movement is in 3D but most things are just really fancy sprites and the few 3D objects and things in the game aren't exactly all that complex.

[Bill Aurion]

Doesn't matter...It's 3d... ^_^

[Truthliesn1seyes]

I like some of the ideas being thrown around here but right now I'll just talk about graphics and then touch up on the gameplay changes later after more thought lol.  I think they should go 2 ways with this.

      The more obvious route that I think we'll see is just an enhancement of what we're seein now.  They should go with the overhead view or 3/4 views that some old school rpgs used to use like breath of fire 3 I believe.  For those that dont know, 3/4s is like the overhead view just slightly slanted over.  The graphics should be up to final fantasy 6 or chrono trigger levels ( or even some of those styles in the last secret of mana or saga frontiers, those were great hand drawn graphs)  

      The other route I'll like to see them take instead of the more traditional one would be a mario 64/Zelda OoT type of graphics.  Complete 3d for both battle and world.  The overworld map should be scrapped for something much greater in scale.  Make the gamer actually travel like in the zelda games lol.  Cel shadin would be best for this series though since the cartoons are so popular and fit in with the game.    

[MaleficentOgre]

I want more control over my pokemon than just randomly hitting the A button, or even just tapping on the screen.  I think having some action involved, or real-time battles would be nice.  I also want to get emotionally attatched to my pokemon.  When I play now if my pokemon faint I seem to not care and just move on to the next pokemon.  All the interaction between trainer and pokemon is imagined in the games, putting a relationship system in the game would be welcome.

[Mario]

There already is a relationship system kinda, with the happiness points, some Pokemon need certain amount of happiness points to evolve, for example Golbat > Crobat and Chansey > Blissey. Your Pokemon gains happiness poinst by battling and when you give it items, and it loses happiness points when it dies, when you deposit it in a box etc. So yeah, your idea has already been done.

I think Nintendo has heaps of ideas with Pokemon but they just want to slowly milk them to us through a million different games, because they can.

[Bill Aurion]

No, Mario, a more complicated relationship system could be implemented...Like add in story elements in which you protect your Pokemon, etc...

[MaleficentOgre]

The happiness system is fluff.  My pokemon don't act any differently when they're happy or not.  I say fight and they fight, when they die they die.  In yellow i put pikachu in the computer for most of the game and when I brought it out it still did everything I wanted to it just had an angry face.  It should be like the tv show.  say you're battling your rival and their pokemon is better, you're gettin' schooled, but because you and your pokemon are pals it becomes rejuvinated at a crucial point in the battle and finds a way to not lose barring you don't do something stupid like try to fight a level 85 zapdos with your level 8 squirtle.

[SatansNemesis]

lol...not even the most "bonded" trainer and creature could overcome that challenge, bad type matchup. "Squirtle! water gun atta-" *BZZZAP* Squirtle is fried by a thunder bolt...you black out.

[Bill Aurion]

Well I think the point is that a good trainer wouldn't send Squirtle out in the first place...

[RABicle]

So does anyone have any idea how such a bonding system would work or is going to be "just like the (weak) TV show." Im sure Nintendo would like to do something like that but quite seriosuly how would they do it?

[Ness_the_Mess]

A good trainer wouldn't HAVE a level 8 squirtle.  They would have a level 100 blastoise.

I hope that they do something simple with this game.  All 380 pokémon, no stat or attack changes, new, long story line, and good connectability.  That's all I want.  That's right, nintendo, all 380 pokemon on one cart.  It sounds scary, but it really isn't.

[Mario]

You can already have all the Pokemon in one cart. In five different carts too.

I don't want a long storyline, because it eventually bores me, the length of the current Pokemon games "story" is perfect. I would like whole new towns/islands to explore at the end of the game though, when i'm ready (not be "forced" to do things).

[KDR_11k]

The problem with more elaborate interaction is the numbers. Of course you could make animations for each of the 380 Pokemon and each of the few hundred attacks for each, but doing so would take tens of millions of dollars and quite a few years since Pokemon don't share any common anatomy (a realistic number for full animation would be 20-30 Pokemon, maybe up to 50 if they're simple, but that's way too few). Fitting the whole junk onto a cart wouldn't be nice, either. I'd happily sacrifice numbers for more individual Pokemon (not just looks but also behaviour), but I'd say the fanbase wouldn't. Also, the whole graphics stuff wouldn't add to the gameplay while taking up lots of ressources that couldn't be put into, say, locales.

[RABicle]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ness_the_Mess
A good trainer wouldn't HAVE a level 8 squirtle.  They would have a level 100 blastoise.

I hope that they do something simple with this game.  All 380 pokémon, no stat or attack changes, new, long story line, and good connectability.  That's all I want.  That's right, nintendo, all 380 pokemon on one cart.  It sounds scary, but it really isn't.

This has got to be the weakest, most pathetic "idea" I've ever seen. Such a total lack or oringality sustained for too long will kill the Pokémon franchise. Quite seriosuly if they next game is just another collectathon level up fest, where I already know all the abilities of the pokemon I catch, It will not be worth purchasing. Ruby and Sapphire were so good because it forced you to use new Pokémon and discover their abilities, you couldn't play it safe unless you were weak and spinelss and used playguides.
What everyone else has been discussing would add further depth and new gameplay experiences even if they didn't add anynew Pokémon at all.

Quote
The problem with more elaborate interaction is the numbers. Of course you could make animations for each of the 380 Pokemon and each of the few hundred attacks for each, but doing so would take tens of millions of dollars and quite a few years since Pokemon don't share any common anatomy (a realistic number for full animation would be 20-30 Pokemon, maybe up to 50 if they're simple, but that's way too few). Fitting the whole junk onto a cart wouldn't be nice, either. I'd happily sacrifice numbers for more individual Pokemon (not just looks but also behaviour), but I'd say the fanbase wouldn't. Also, the whole graphics stuff wouldn't add to the gameplay while taking up lots of ressources that couldn't be put into, say, locales.

Yeah what you speak of is true. Unless the battles use 3D visuals in the battles which would take up far less space than hand drawn 2D animation. It wouldn't be so bad and as we've already discussed could lead to teh environment playing a greater influence.

[Ness_the_Mess]

RAB, it is NOT a weak idea.  If all 380 pokémon are in it, then it's finally getting rid of the crap idea that we shouldn't be able to 'catch them all.'  That's how it's been, in my opinion.

Also, that wasn't a 'main' feature that I wanted.  That was just an inclusion.

I said that I wanted a new, long storyline.  When I said long, I meant 40-50 hours.  When I said new, I meant not mamby-pamby team rocket, or just going and fighting gym leaders.  I mean a real plot-line - you know, like other RPG's have?  I would like to be able to have some sort of satisfaction after having beaten the game.

Back to the idea of the number of pokémon, I really think that 380 is enough.  I mean, there is a diverse enough number so that you can get basically any kind of pokémon you want, stat-wise.  I haven't been playing the past couple generations of Pokémon because all that's new is some minor graphics upgrades, and 100 or so new pokémon.  The problem is, I LIKE knowing what all the pokémon are.  151 was a good enough number for me.  250 made sence to me, and so I appreciated it.  380 started to help me realize that they just wouldn't stop.  I want CONTINUITY in this series, but if they keep adding more pokémon, the old ones will become extinct.

[Hybrid Hunter]

The old pokemon have become the classic pokemon.
I wouldn't mind a long storyline thing, because once you finish the game pretty much all you want to do is catch all the other pokemon, there should be some more incentive to play more.

[KDR_11k]

RAB: I was already thinking 3d. Sure, sprites would be even larger, but we're talking about orders of magnitude here. Even if you could fit all of those anims into the cart together with a decent world, you still need an enormous workforce.

As for new Pokemon, I don't really care. I would really like a system that goes beyond the current poor-man's-FF combat system. Positions, teams, etc. Maybe have 2-3 pokemon per trainer out as a default and encounter wildlife in groups or single, depending on the creature's behaviour.

[3rdrocket]

I was thinking about that egg monster heroes system. The one that let's you pick the body part you want to attack. I think that would work with pokemon.

[joshnickerson]

The "Happyness" factor should come into play when your Pokemon levels up. If you and your Pokemon are really close, then it's stats will increase a point or two more than it normal would.
I'd also like to see them use another storyline other than "Get 8 badges and take on the Elite 4 while running Team Suchandsuch out of business". Pokemon Colluseum has an interesting storyline (though the gameplay is lacking) and I'd like to see something similar to the Pokemon series... And I know I've said this before, but I'd like to see more puzzles that acutally use your Pokemon's skills, like using Pikachu's Thunderbolt to power an electric generator. I'd also like to be able to have more control over my main character, like being able to jump, or perhaps even stealth around in a enemy base (using Oddish's Sleep Powder to knock out the guards along the way).

That said, I'm actually more interested in this supposed "Pikachu's Mysterious Dungeon" game that's been rumored...

[WuTangTurtle]

dang u joshnicerson, i just read the whole thread and got an idea for the realtionship feature and wham, u beat me to the post by a huge margin.

Anyways what if pokemon got a "chakra bar" like in Naruto GCN game, basically everytime you have your pokemon battle, every time he makes a successful hit his special bar will go up, any direct hits the bar will go down, but the bar would be a friendship/loyalty bar.  

During fights if the bar is up high enough you can use "L/R" to dodge an attack if timed properly but would take away from your bar.  If your pokemon is knocked out and your bar is high enough you would go into a button mashing mode or something to try and get up again, the harder the knockout the faster the mashing and the more the bar will get eaten up, or maybe use a ddr system which is used in Mega Man X:  Command Mission, or Gladius, or if you don't know any of those games, Donkey Konga basically depending on how much damage the more buttons you would have to hit correctly in a short amount of time.  

Also when the bar is higher attacks and accuracies are stronger.........and in due time you can upgrade attacks instead of learning new attacks i.e. Tales of Symphonia, so basically thunder wave = thundershock = thunderbolt = thunder.  This is where when the bar is full you can choose between 2 moves that hasn't been learned yet, and the more you do them the quicker you learn them that way you have an option to learn what attacks, gaining levels would also add new attacks to your specials.  Out of the battle it could activate certain specials such as Meowth finding money and items for you.

I think this would work well, because it would mean as trainers we really would be training them, that way just because a Charmander at lvl 15 doesnt mean that another trainers Charmander at lvl 15 would have the same stats or attacks!  In further detail a lvl 30 Butterfree may have learned grass/bug attacks while another Butterfree may have learned psychic attacks and yet another that has learned a mix of the 2, as for TM's and HM's they would be put into the pokemon's special bar so they would have to actually learn them, no instant ramen here!

This would make the game more in depth, more of a challenge, and the multiplayer would be more varied.  Anyways i have prolly confused everyone here but i would like to see what everyone thinks about it.  Hope the long read was worth it!

[Bill Aurion]

"everytime you have your pokemon battle, every time he makes a successful hit his special bar will go up, any direct hits the bar will go down, but the bar would be a friendship/loyalty bar."

Eh, would work better if it were the bar goes up as your Pokemon wins battles, and goes down when it faints...