Author Topic: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?  (Read 15214 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chozo Ghost

  • I do want the Wii U to fail.
  • Score: -431
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2010, 08:19:48 AM »
There will be a Wii 2, just as surely as Nintendo will make another console. Of course, it is possible Nintendo won't call it "Wii 2", but I think with the insane popularity that the Wii enjoys they would be foolish not to tie the next system to the current one somehow (meaning, it should refer to Wii in its title).

The successor to the NES was the SUPER NES, so maybe the successor to Wii will be Super Wii?
is your sanity...

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2010, 12:05:41 PM »
Quote
But that's just counting graphics. What about processing power? Consoles can still improve by beefing up in order for more advanced A.I., more enemies on screen, etc. There's really no limit there in how many times we can advance until we finally run into the limitations set by the theory of relativity. Processors won't be able to handle calculations faster than the speed of light, so that's a firm limit, but I guess that is still far into the future before we reach that limitation. So consoles still have much room in that regard.

Yeah, that does make a difference.  The question is how much of a difference does it make for the consumer to feel the need to upgrade.  The financial cost is also a factor.  You can go crazy making a game that makes full use of the most state-of-the-art hardware around but will it make back the cost of development?  That's already a concern now so I think that at the very least it would be dangerous to go further right now.  Let's wait until games that make full use of the PS3 right now are easily affordable to develop.
 
AI advances interest me the most though.  They could do some cool stuff. :)

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2010, 12:23:43 PM »
The won't; they haven't.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline Rize

  • Disgruntled
  • Score: -2
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2010, 03:10:43 PM »
I think it's a mistake to assume the Wii 2 will be more powerful than the PS3 or 360.  If it is more powerful, I don't think it will be a significant increase.  Is the Wii even more powerful than the original Xbox?

Offline BlackNMild2k1

  • Animal Crossing Hustler
  • Score: 410
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2010, 03:34:40 PM »
Yes the Wii is more powerful than an Xbox, but you wouldn't know it since no one bothered to push it graphically (and the Wii doesn't use shader tech).

and the 360 is using at best 2004/2005 tech and ATi/IBM have just combined the chips into one.
PS3 is using 2006 tech and we don't expect a Wii2 until end of 2011 at the earliest.
You really don't think that PS360 level graphics will be affordable with improved wiimote tech 1.75years from now when the 360 has been profitable @ $200 for atleast a year now and the most expensive parts of PS3 are Cell and the Blu ray drive?

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2010, 04:02:16 PM »
I would love to see Mario Galaxy 3 on Wii 2 with an unlimited draw distance. There are no levels, just a constantly changing terrain. Now that would be impressive!
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline Chozo Ghost

  • I do want the Wii U to fail.
  • Score: -431
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2010, 04:21:52 PM »
Quote
But that's just counting graphics. What about processing power? Consoles can still improve by beefing up in order for more advanced A.I., more enemies on screen, etc. There's really no limit there in how many times we can advance until we finally run into the limitations set by the theory of relativity. Processors won't be able to handle calculations faster than the speed of light, so that's a firm limit, but I guess that is still far into the future before we reach that limitation. So consoles still have much room in that regard.

Yeah, that does make a difference.  The question is how much of a difference does it make for the consumer to feel the need to upgrade.  The financial cost is also a factor.  You can go crazy making a game that makes full use of the most state-of-the-art hardware around but will it make back the cost of development?  That's already a concern now so I think that at the very least it would be dangerous to go further right now.  Let's wait until games that make full use of the PS3 right now are easily affordable to develop.
 
AI advances interest me the most though.  They could do some cool stuff. :)

Gunpei Yokoi pioneered the right idea which he called "lateral withering". It means you wait until a technology gets really old and dirt cheap, then you grab it and start using it for something different, such as video games. That was his thinking that led to the game & watch and the Gameboy, among other things. If you think about it, the Gameboy was pretty outdated even when it was new. It was the only handheld that lacked a full color display (unless you also count the virtual boy as a handheld, but I don't because it isn't hand held). Yes, it was the first handheld thing, but the Gamegear and Lynx weren't too far behind it and they were full colored, so it proved Nintendo didn't HAVE to make it display everything in spinach color, but that ended up making the Gameboy the cheapest console of all and also had the best battery life by far.

If you think about it, the Wii is a lot like the Gameboy because it is the market leader yet is underpowered compared to its competitors. That's no accident. Even though Gunpei Yokoi is dead and no longer with the company, his thinking helped influence Iwata among others, and that's why Nintendo still embraces the "lateral withering" principle, and its worked out well for them.

But my point is that current HD graphics and cell processors and all that are also "laterally withering". They're not cheap today, but in a couple years they probably will be. See, the PS3 launched at $600, right? That's because it embraced cutting edge technology that hadn't "laterally withered" yet. With the Slim model they were able to include components that had been manufactured for awhile so the price had come down, and that's why the PS3 is now half the price it was at launch. Wait another 2 years and it might be half of what it is now.

That would be the perfect time for Nintendo to embrace that sort of technology. Not only will those components be cheaper, but they will be much better as well. Graphically speaking, they won't offer much noticeably improvement over current HD systems, but the Wii 2.0 could still beat the PS3 in things like A.I. and so forth.

Just remember, the Wii 2.0 doesn't need to be a "super computer" like the PS3 was in 2006. It can just use budget 2011-2012 components and still have something that's better than the PS3. Gunpei Yokoi was a genius, and its reassuring to know that Iwata is taking time and waiting for technology to come down before embracing it, unlike Sony or MS who don't have the patience and just embrace it by creating a system that is expensive and doesn't sell very well. Sony is doing better now that they've brought the price of their system down, but had they used less cutting edge components from the start they would probably still be the market leader. If you start out with components that are already cheap, then you won't need to wait for costs to come down, and $600 was just too much. They're doing better now, but it doesn't justify the cost of dropping from 1st place to 3rd in a single generation.
is your sanity...

Offline Chozo Ghost

  • I do want the Wii U to fail.
  • Score: -431
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2010, 04:35:15 PM »
Yes the Wii is more powerful than an Xbox, but you wouldn't know it since no one bothered to push it graphically (and the Wii doesn't use shader tech).

and the 360 is using at best 2004/2005 tech and ATi/IBM have just combined the chips into one.
PS3 is using 2006 tech and we don't expect a Wii2 until end of 2011 at the earliest.
You really don't think that PS360 level graphics will be affordable with improved wiimote tech 1.75years from now when the 360 has been profitable @ $200 for atleast a year now and the most expensive parts of PS3 are Cell and the Blu ray drive?

Back in the late 90s and early 2000s there were those hyped up supercomputers like Deep Blue, which IBM and everyone made a big deal out of and how they could beat Gary Kasparov and all that. Well, Nowadays you can go into your local walmart and get a sub-$300 that's probably 10 times as powerful as those old supercomputers. That's just how technology goes. It starts out expensive, and tomorrow its some budget thing.
is your sanity...

Offline TJ Spyke

  • Ass
  • Score: -1350
    • View Profile
    • Spyke Shop
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2010, 04:42:51 PM »
That reminds me of something I saw on NASA TV about the computer that was used to land Apollo 11 on the moon. It only had 64KB of memory and a 0.043MHz processor (meaning that the average USB stick is more powerful than the computer that put man on the moon).
Help out a poor college student, buy video games and Blu-ray Discs at: http://astore.amazon.com/spyke-20

Offline BlackNMild2k1

  • Animal Crossing Hustler
  • Score: 410
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2010, 06:02:05 PM »
That reminds me of something I saw on NASA TV about the computer that was used to land Apollo 11 on the moon. It only had 64KB of memory and a 0.043MHz processor (meaning that the average USB stick is more powerful than the computer that put man on the moon).
Yet it's too complicated and expensive to go back..... :hugerolleyes:

Offline ThePerm

  • predicted it first.
  • Score: 64
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2010, 06:37:02 PM »
lol this is a stupid thread, the ps3 can't even compete with the Wii 1
NWR has permission to use any tentative mockup/artwork I post

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2010, 06:41:55 PM »
lol this is a stupid thread, the ps3 can't even compete with the Wii 1
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2010, 04:32:53 AM »
That reminds me of something I saw on NASA TV about the computer that was used to land Apollo 11 on the moon. It only had 64KB of memory and a 0.043MHz processor (meaning that the average USB stick is more powerful than the computer that put man on the moon).

Really? I heard they used C64s but either way... NASA uses old technology on purpose, they bought up Atari 2600s some years ago to upgrade their computers. Old tech has been tested and is fairly large, larger tech means space radiation has less chance of corrupting the data. If you take a modern computer into space you're not going to get anything done.

Offline ThePerm

  • predicted it first.
  • Score: 64
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2010, 05:06:03 AM »
unless its covered with a layer of polyethylene and aluminum, then of course added ventilation, because my radiation suit gets hot as hell.
NWR has permission to use any tentative mockup/artwork I post

Offline Stratos

  • Stale lazy meme pirate
  • Score: 70
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2010, 05:09:27 AM »
It's funny to think that my old Brick Gameboy is more powerful than what landed man on the moon.
My Game Collection
NNID: Chronocast
Switch: SW-6786-5514-9978
3DS Friend Code: 0447-5723-6467
XBL Gamertag: Chronocast

Offline SixthAngel

  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2010, 07:19:12 AM »
Why is everyone talking about the price of the system components going down?  The real increase in price is the money that must be spent on games with all the new trimmings.  That is the true cost for creating a new sytem for a first party heavy company like Nintendo and I haven't seen anything to show me the price has dropped much.

lol this is a stupid thread, the ps3 can't even compete with the Wii 1

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2010, 12:36:03 PM »
Quote
Why is everyone talking about the price of the system components going down?  The real increase in price is the money that must be spent on games with all the new trimmings.  That is the true cost for creating a new sytem for a first party heavy company like Nintendo and I haven't seen anything to show me the price has dropped much.

Most of Nintendo's Wii games wouldn't even be considered exceptional looking Gamecube games.  I've never seen a company of such quality that so blatantly cheaps out on the extras like Nintendo does.  So introducing new hardware won't raise Nintendo's dev costs much.  For them I think the purpose would be to introduce a further revision to the controller where they can be sure 100% of the userbase has it and to respark hardware sales as the Wii sales trail off.  Upping the specs is something they'll do to support HD because not supporting that TV standard will be seen as missing a feature the general public will at that point expect all consumer electronics to support.  Retro and third parties might push the hardware but NCL will continue making Mii games that will look indistinguishable from Wii Sports.  Actually I can imagine them making HD support optional for Wii 2 games (I believe the other consoles make it mandatory) and then never supporting it themselves.
 
But then I would not be surprised if Nintendo just added some wonky feature to the controller and released a Gamecube 1.75 that still doesn't support HD.  I don't really expect them to do that but in the back of my mind I can imagine them doing it.

Offline Guitar Smasher

  • Score: 14
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2010, 01:10:32 PM »
Quote
Why is everyone talking about the price of the system components going down?  The real increase in price is the money that must be spent on games with all the new trimmings.  That is the true cost for creating a new sytem for a first party heavy company like Nintendo and I haven't seen anything to show me the price has dropped much.

Most of Nintendo's Wii games wouldn't even be considered exceptional looking Gamecube games.  I've never seen a company of such quality that so blatantly cheaps out on the extras like Nintendo does....
 ...Retro and third parties might push the hardware but NCL will continue making Mii games that will look indistinguishable from Wii Sports.
Have you ever considered that perhaps the charm and cuteness of Mii games contributed to their success?  Do you think a super-realistic avatar will produce the same response as a funny looking Mii?  There's a reason why political satirists use caricatures in their cartoons.

And way to over-exaggerate the use of Mii-graphics.  Retro/Third parties aren't the only ones making games with at-least-as-good GC graphics.  I know you own some of these games too.

Quote
But then I would not be surprised if Nintendo just added some wonky feature to the controller and released a Gamecube 1.75 that still doesn't support HD.  I don't really expect them to do that but in the back of my mind I can imagine them doing it.
You're being a drama queen.  You're not actually imagining this, so quit trying to start a fire.

Offline broodwars

  • Hunting for a Pineapple Salad
  • Score: -1011
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #68 on: March 18, 2010, 03:01:20 PM »
Have you ever considered that perhaps the charm and cuteness of Mii games contributed to their success?  Do you think a super-realistic avatar will produce the same response as a funny looking Mii?  There's a reason why political satirists use caricatures in their cartoons.

I don't think he's arguing for "super-realistic" graphics, just ones that are actually on-par with what the Wii can accomplish.  Look at Wind Waker, a title on the GameCube that still has better production values than most of what Nintendo puts out on the Wii, and it's super-cartoony.
There was a Signature here. It's gone now.

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #69 on: March 18, 2010, 03:28:57 PM »
I have no issue with Wii Sports graphics in that I feel it suits the game fine.  But Nintendo doesn't push the graphic envelope with virtually any of their games.  Does NSMB Wii wow you with its visuals?  So I'm noting that for Nintendo the cost of the frills of HD won't raise the development of their games because they don't bother much with frills to begin with.  Most of their games have a graphic quality I would best describe as adequate.  Nintendo will never make something like Final Fantasy XIII regardless of what hardware they have to work with.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2010, 03:47:46 PM »
You're arguing about how Nintendo doesn't push their graphic envelope regarding their representation of their cartoon characters.

Think about that for a sec.  Maybe a couple hours, if need be.

EDIT:  Remind yourself that Nintendo is also responsible for my avatar, a textured, live-action respresentation of a character they made.  Checkout those graphics.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 03:50:50 PM by NinGurl69 *huggles »
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

  • Animal Crossing Hustler
  • Score: 410
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2010, 03:52:24 PM »
You're arguing about how Nintendo doesn't push their graphic envelope regarding their representation of their cartoon characters.

Think about that for a sec.  Maybe a couple hours, if need be.

EDIT:  Remind yourself that Nintendo is also responsible for my avatar, a textured, live-action respresentation of a character they made.  Checkout those graphics.


« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 03:54:24 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline ThePerm

  • predicted it first.
  • Score: 64
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2010, 04:32:57 PM »
as for inhouse developed games Mario Galaxy has pretty spiffy graphics, if you recall in the original Mario Galaxy thread it starts off with me saying they are nothing special, and then me changing my mind when i see more screens/video. Metroid Prime 3 looks to be a step up on what Gamecube can do, but not by too much. Twilight Princess is almost in the same way as Metroid Prime 3, im pretty sure in June we'll see a Zelda game made with Wii Power in mind. 2009 was a pretty slim year as far as Wii goes, they had nothing to show at e3, but there have been several years of development for bigger projects that we'll see soon. I'm being optimistic this e3, but never get your hopes too far up. We are due for something.
NWR has permission to use any tentative mockup/artwork I post

Offline Chozo Ghost

  • I do want the Wii U to fail.
  • Score: -431
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2010, 06:15:12 PM »
Most of Nintendo's Wii games wouldn't even be considered exceptional looking Gamecube games.  I've never seen a company of such quality that so blatantly cheaps out on the extras like Nintendo does.  So introducing new hardware won't raise Nintendo's dev costs much.  For them I think the purpose would be to introduce a further revision to the controller where they can be sure 100% of the userbase has it and to respark hardware sales as the Wii sales trail off.  Upping the specs is something they'll do to support HD because not supporting that TV standard will be seen as missing a feature the general public will at that point expect all consumer electronics to support.  Retro and third parties might push the hardware but NCL will continue making Mii games that will look indistinguishable from Wii Sports.  Actually I can imagine them making HD support optional for Wii 2 games (I believe the other consoles make it mandatory) and then never supporting it themselves.

That's a possibility, and I would be okay with it. Make hardware that CAN support HD, but don't force that on developers as a requirement. I think that's actually a perfect solution.
 
But then I would not be surprised if Nintendo just added some wonky feature to the controller and released a Gamecube 1.75 that still doesn't support HD.  I don't really expect them to do that but in the back of my mind I can imagine them doing it.

If you've ever looked at the leaked system specs for the Wii and compared them to the GC you should have noticed the Wii is much more powerful than GC 1.75 already. For example, the GC dolphin processor was like 233mhz or so, whereas the Wii's broadway processor is 734mhz or something. The Wii also has much more RAM and a better GPU. Nintendo said the Wii is 2.5 to 3 times more powerful than the GC, and by looking at the leaked specs that seems about right to me.

But when you say most Wii games don't make use of that capability, you are absolutely correct. Ninteno's games this generation have relied on shitty Mii graphics, and that's an insult to what the Wii is actually capable of doing. The Wii is capable of better graphics than the original xbox, but we seldom see games that come close to it. It isn't the hardware's fault. The problem is a combination of last-gen ports and non-game casual crap that's flooded the system. The Wii is capable of better graphics, but its just not being done.

With that said, I guess its just as well Nintendo released the Wii as weak as it is, since even in its weak state its still not reaching its full potential. Imagine if the Wii had HD graphics and was as powerful as the competition, but still all we got was shitty Mii games.

The irony of the Wii 2 might be that Nintendo releases a cutting edge system that has more horsepower than the PS3, but even so they bundle it with Wii Sports 2.0 which still uses the same shitty Miis as the last system. Wouldn't that be funny?
is your sanity...

Offline Chozo Ghost

  • I do want the Wii U to fail.
  • Score: -431
    • View Profile
Re: How will the PS3 be able to compete against the more advanced Wii 2?
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2010, 06:25:50 PM »
One good analogy someone could use for the Wii/GC comparison is to say the GC was a boombox that could only play audio cassettes, and then the Wii is a boombox that can play both audio cassettes and CDs, but the problem is you don't own any CDs and you aren't aware it can play them. So you are only using half of what the system is capable of, and you're left thinking that you were ripped off because it isn't doing anything different than what you had before. But it is capable of more, and most people don't realize that.

Its like someone buying a computer and only using it to play solitaire. That's very much like how it is for the casual gamers who buy the Wii only for the Mii enabled games. They have a piece of hardware capable of doing a lot, but they only play solitaire so its basically wasted for the most part. Then developers compound the problem by delivering more "solitaire" games and nothing else becuase they perceive that's what the market demands. It becoems a vicious cycle.
is your sanity...