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WiiU

Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze Delayed to 2014

by Andrew Brown - October 1, 2013, 7:13 am EDT
Total comments: 38

Donkey Gone.

Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, which was originally scheduled to release in December this year, has been pushed back until next year.

As Iwata explained during today's Nintendo Direct, the game will now be released in February 2014. The only explanation offered was that the game is being refined and improved.

The game was first announced during E3 this year.

Talkback

MetalMario2October 01, 2013

Dammit. :(

KhushrenadaOctober 01, 2013

One year later, still can't release games for the Wii U.

AdrockOctober 01, 2013

Blessing in disguise for me. I would have been tempted to buy it in December even though I probably wouldn't have finished 3D World by then. I can't wait.

ShyGuyOctober 01, 2013

I hope there is some compensating in the form of VC or eShop games.

motangOctober 01, 2013

No frozen bananas till 2014!  :@

broodwarsOctober 01, 2013

I see Nintendo just realized that they have nothing in 2014 besides Mario Kart, so they're now stretching their releases out to try to hide the drought.  Watch Mario Kart Wii U now be Nintendo's big Fall 2014 game.  Well, now that DKC isn't coming out this year, I guess I'm done caring about Wii U games this year.

AdrockOctober 01, 2013

Quote from: broodwars

I see Nintendo just realized that they have nothing in 2014 besides Mario Kart

Super Smash Bros. Probably Bayonetta 2. And just because they didn't announce something, doesn't mean it isn't in the works. That's par for the course with Nintendo for the last few years. Donkey Long Coubtry Returns was announced like six months before it was released.

broodwarsOctober 01, 2013

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: broodwars

I see Nintendo just realized that they have nothing in 2014 besides Mario Kart

Super Smash Bros. Probably Bayonetta 2. And just because they didn't announce something, doesn't mean it isn't in the works. That's par for the course with Nintendo for the last few years. Donkey Long Coubtry Returns was announced like six months before it was released.

Didn't care about the last Bayonetta, and I don't care about this one, either.  I also have no faith that Smash Bros. is releasing before Fall 2014, assuming it isn't delayed again. As for unannounced titles, that's always a possibility, but with how absolutely barren Nintendo's 2014 Wii U schedule looks right now, they'd better start announcing games.

AdrockOctober 01, 2013

Not caring about a game doesn't change the fact that it still exists. There's a distinct difference between saying "Nintendo just realized that they have nothing in 2014 besides Mario Kart" and "Nintendo has nothing for me until Mario Kart." They're not even remotely close to the same thing.

Also, I don't recall Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS getting delayed. They never announced a date outside of 2014 which is about right considering Sakurai didn't start the game until after Kid Icarus Uprising was finished. Brawl spent about two years in development.

broodwarsOctober 01, 2013

Quote from: Adrock

Not caring about a game doesn't change the fact that it still exists. There's a distinct difference between saying "Nintendo just realized that they have nothing in 2014 besides Mario Kart" and "Nintendo has nothing for me until Mario Kart." They're not even remotely close to the same thing.

Also, I don't recall Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS getting delayed. They never announced a date outside of 2014 which is about right considering Sakurai didn't start the game until after Kid Icarus Uprising was finished. Brawl spent about two years in development.

Platinum games have a history of selling at best underwhelming numbers and typically bomb. Bayonetta 2 might as well not exist for all the sales impact it will have, especially on a console where nothing sells.  As for Smash Bros., that franchise has a history of unexpected delays. I'm not expecting it till Fall 2014, especially with how Nintendo likes to space out releases. With DKC now releasing in Fall 2014, Mario Kart's bound to get pushed back to Summer 2014 at the earliest and Nintendo will want a game for the Fall. That's how Smash Bros. becomes the Fall 2014 game barring any new announcements.

If you think there was ever a chance of Smash Bros. coming out before fall of next year you're fooling yourself. It was fall 2014 regardless of what Nintendo had in Q1-3, and that's assuming it doesn't get pushed into 2015

broodwarsOctober 01, 2013

Bah...I hate this inability to edit posts...I meant to say "with DCK:TF now releasing in Feb. 2014..."  And as I said, I've never expected Smash Bros. before Fall 2014.

Ian SaneOctober 01, 2013

As a Nintendo fan we've dealt with delays before but I can't think of a more costly one for Nintendo.  The Wii U needed that Mario/DK doubleshot badly.  This Christmas is make-or-break for the Wii U.  After the second Christmas you know where a videogame system stands.  If it ain't selling by then it never will because the image of an unsupported flop is already set in the minds of the consumers.  The Wii U's identity will be established by then as it will no longer be a new product with the typical growing pains.  For the Wii U to ever amount to squat it needed this Christmas to be big and with one of its top two Christmas titles out that's just going to be that much harder.

If Nintendo is intentionally delaying it to spread the wealth across the release schedule the console is fucked.  It has no third party support and the first party lacks the resources to make games on a timely schedule and has made no indication that they will increase their resources to address that.  Retro simply not being ready is actually a more hopeful situation.  All the hope was that the second half of 2013 was going to be the start of more healthy release schedule but if we're just in a drought-surge-drought pattern it's going to be years before I would even consider buying this thing.

The Wii U will be discontinued in 2014.  It is not a product that the public wants and Nintendo lacks the resources and, frankly the know-how (HD games take a long time to make?  If only there was some way to have known that years ago!), to change that.  Even if Nintendo feels they can hold out they rely on stores being willing to carry it.

AdrockOctober 01, 2013

Quote from: Ian

The Wii U will be discontinued in 2014.

Right. Because no one wants Smash Bros. and Mario Kart.

/throws Wii U into hobo trash can fire

IssunZXOctober 01, 2013

Bummer, Tropical Freeze would've been a great title to see for Christmas, and likely would've helped push sales a bit.

Still, I don't want to buy into all the "doom and gloom" people are saying about the Wii-U. Yeah, it's not doing great right now, and Nintendo has made some bad, perhaps costly, decisions, but I still want to remain optimistic with what's coming soon and on the horizon. That said, it is a shame Nintendo is flailing around a bit this generation.

azekeOctober 01, 2013

It's hilarous to see the very same people who hated Tropical Freeze reveal now feigning outrage at it's delay ;p

YmeegodOctober 01, 2013

Smash Bros. and Mario Kart. were also on the GC and it didn't save that. 

Not sure if losing Donkey Kong TF is that big of an deal since there's already two solid platformers that were/will be released by the x-mas (Rayman and Mario).

Rayman could use a few million more sales :(.

AdrockOctober 01, 2013

GameCube also wasn't discontinued after two years.

ShyGuyOctober 01, 2013

Quote from: Ian

The Wii U will be discontinued in 2014.

Care to make a ban bet? ;)

Luigi DudeOctober 01, 2013

Quote from: Ymeegod

Smash Bros. and Mario Kart. were also on the GC and it didn't save that.

Both franchises are way more popular now.  Smash Bros on the N64 only sold over 5 million and Mario Kart 64 over 9 million.  In comparison, Smash Bros Brawl has sold over 11 million and Mario Kart Wii over 34 million. 

On the Gamecube, Melee and Double Dash only sold 7 million.  Now Smash Bros Wii U could drop to those levels, but it's literally impossible for Mario Kart 8 to go that low.  Mario Kart 7 on the 3DS managed over 8 million in a year and Mario Kart is less popular on handhelds then consoles.  That pretty much guarantees Mario Kart 8 is going to achieve sales well over 10 million and could easily break 20 million as well.

Ian SaneOctober 01, 2013

Quote from: ShyGuy

Quote from: Ian

The Wii U will be discontinued in 2014.

Care to make a ban bet? ;)

No way.  I want to be wrong on this.

Quote from: azeke

It's hilarous to see the very same people who hated Tropical Freeze reveal now feigning outrage at it's delay ;p

I would have preferred a different release from Retro (or at least for Nintendo to not have hyped up Retro's super secret project as if it was something genuinely surprising) but this is the game they're making and, like it or not, it was one of the most high profile Wii U games due for 2013.  The Mario/DK doubleshot was as good of an effort Nintendo could realistically have made considering the poor third party support and Nintendo's own lack of development resources.  This one game had a lot of responsibility to help sell Wii U's this Christmas.  Clearly with one less major title as a selling point the Wii U will have a harder time attracting sales.  And I think this Christmas is insanely important for Nintendo, with "altering the future of the company" ramifications at stake.

I personally don't give a shit when the game comes out but I recognize the potential significant impact this could have on Nintendo's future.  This is the worst Christmas they could possibly have a major game slip out of.

broodwarsOctober 02, 2013

Quote from: azeke

It's hilarous to see the very same people who hated Tropical Freeze reveal now feigning outrage at it's delay ;p

I don't believe I've ever once said I hated the game. I hate that Retro's talents are wasted on such a mere 2D platformer when they are capable of more, but the game's been on my most-anticipated list since E3 just based on how much I liked DKCR.

AdrockOctober 02, 2013

What genre wouldn't be a waste of Retro's talents? They made one of the best 2D platformers in the last 20 years. I don't see how making a bigger, (possibly) better game is a waste of anything. And you're the same person who said this yesterday:

Quote from: broodwars

Platinum games have a history of selling at best underwhelming numbers and typically bomb. Bayonetta 2 might as well not exist for all the sales impact it will have, especially on a console where nothing sells.

If you're going to use sales impact as an indication of a game's potential then it makes perfect sense for Retro to make a sequel to a game that sold as well as Donkey Kong Country Returns. Isn't it their highest selling game (not counting helping out with Mario Kart 7's development)? Therefore, by your own reasoning, if Retro's talent is to reach as many people as possible, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze is exactly the kind of title they should be developing unless you want them to make Mario or Zelda. If they worked on any other Nintendo IP or a brand new one, they're probably not touching sales anywhere near DKCR.

I would love to see Retro apply their creativity to an original IP; I just wouldn't say their talents are wasted on Tropical Freeze.

Ian SaneOctober 02, 2013

A genre that wouldn't be a waste of Retro's talents would be one that Nintendo does not already have multiple teams working on.  EAD and Good Feel are already cranking out 2D platformers for Nintendo.  I don't know what HAL is currently working on but their last Wii game was also a 2D platformer.  So Nintendo already has three other devs working on this genre and thus Retro should do it, too?  Meanwhile Nintendo is completely ignoring entire genres including the FPS genre which is, you know, the most popular one going right now.  Metroid Prime filled a hole in Nintendo's lineup that no one else was filling.  In comparison, DKC is redundant.  That doesn't make it a bad game, but it's idiotic to put so much attention on the 2D genre while other genres are completely ignored.

Nintendo's got Platinum Games working for them these days and they're not working on the same types of games other Nintendo devs are already working on.  That's a full use of their talents as they can fill a hole and provide variety to Nintendo's lineup.  Retro has provided no variety for Nintendo since Metroid Prime 3.

AdrockOctober 02, 2013

Rhetorical question was rhetorical.

Tropical Freeze is not a waste of their talent because it will reach a larger group of people than just about anything else they could be working on otherwise. You call it redundant and idiotic. Well, someone better tell Microsoft to stop making Halo because there's a metric fuck ton on first person shooters on Xbox. And speaking of first person shooters, no one is buying a Wii U for the genre as shown by ZombiU which was awesome). They might for 2D platformers because other consoles aren't as well represented in the genre.

Artistically and creatively, sure, I'd like to see Retro Studios work on something beyond Metroid and Donkey Kong. However, calling their work, whatever it may be, a waste of their talent is the worst kind of hyperbole, but also kind of insulting to the effort they're putting into their games.

Luigi DudeOctober 02, 2013

Quote from: Ian

A genre that wouldn't be a waste of Retro's talents would be one that Nintendo does not already have multiple teams working on.  EAD and Good Feel are already cranking out 2D platformers for Nintendo.  I don't know what HAL is currently working on but their last Wii game was also a 2D platformer.  So Nintendo already has three other devs working on this genre and thus Retro should do it, too?  Meanwhile Nintendo is completely ignoring entire genres including the FPS genre which is, you know, the most popular one going right now.  Metroid Prime filled a hole in Nintendo's lineup that no one else was filling.  In comparison, DKC is redundant.  That doesn't make it a bad game, but it's idiotic to put so much attention on the 2D genre while other genres are completely ignored.

Nintendo's got Platinum Games working for them these days and they're not working on the same types of games other Nintendo devs are already working on.  That's a full use of their talents as they can fill a hole and provide variety to Nintendo's lineup.  Retro has provided no variety for Nintendo since Metroid Prime 3.

Once again, Retro wanted to make a sequel to Donkey Kong Country Returns.  Retro could have made something else but they choose to make a sequel because they still had a lot of idea's left over from DKCR that they wanted to do. 

Seriously, you're the guy constantly complaining about Nintendo not giving their developers any freedom, and yet when Retro choose to make something you don't like, you now demand that Nintendo should force them to make something different.

I for one appreciate Retro's talents being used on a good game rather than another grimdark shooter.

broodwarsOctober 03, 2013

Quote from: Luigi

Once again, Retro wanted to make a sequel to Donkey Kong Country Returns.  Retro could have made something else but they choose to make a sequel because they still had a lot of idea's left over from DKCR that they wanted to do.

Personally, I'll be inclined to actually believe anything Retro publicly says on this matter when Iwata isn't signing their checks.  The same goes for any developer owned by a big publisher, for that matter.  You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

As for this game, much like Ian I find this game to be a waste of Retro's talents for several reasons:

1. We're good on platformers right now, especially 2D ones.  We don't need any more, I personally don't want any more (I've always preferred 3D platformers), and Nintendo needs coverage in other genres if the Wii U is ever going to look less like a colossal joke than it already does.

2. I like 2D platformers.  Seriously, I just gushed about Puppeteer for a half hour on the last NFR.  However, to me 2D platformers are a so-called "lesser genre". As we've seen on Kickstarter and the Indie scene, just about anyone can and do make them (and, more importantly, every other division of Nintendo canand DOES make them), often for very little money and with substantially less effort than games in other genres.  If Retro's going to spend 3-4 years on a game, I'd rather it be yet another 2D platformer. And seriously, what about yet another 2D DKC retread takes 3-4 years to make?

3. It's Donkey Kong. Despite my overall fondness for the DKC series, DK is one of the blandest characters in Nintendo's already bland selection of characters.  If Retro had to work on a Nintendo franchise (because hey...heaven forbid Nintendo actually come up with anything new), why DK? Why not give Retro a chance to spread their wings a bit & revive another old Nintendo franchise we haven't seen in a while? Oh right...because the Wii U is a flop, and Nintendo is desperate for just about anything recognizable to sell the thing. Nevermind... ::)

There are just so many more interesting games Retro could be making than yet another DKC retread. I still want to play the game because it is Retro and DKCR was good, but it's disappointing.

broodwarsOctober 03, 2013

Edit: "If Retro's going to spend 3-4 years on a game, I'd rather it NOT be yet another 2D platformer."

Ian SaneOctober 03, 2013

To me the whole appeal of the 2D platformer revival was that that genre had been dormant for a while so it was really cool to get some new games in that retro style.  And then Nintendo decided that that was going to be their main genre.  As a periodic "remember this?" release it's retro.  As a routine thing it's just OLD.

The Wii U is supposed to be a modern console and yet Nintendo is pushing a genre that peaked twenty years ago.  I need a Wii U to play games that could probably have been made on the Super Nintendo?  This is like if on the SNES Nintendo focused tons of effort on Pac-Man style single-screen maze games.  Hell, this is pretty much exactly how Atari flunked out with the 7800.  They were offering old high score based single screen arcade games to compete with Super Mario Bros, Castlevania and Mega Man.  N64 platformers like Super Mario 64 and Banjo-Kazooie seem incredibly ambitious compared to Nintendo's modern 2D platformers.

How about Retro work on something that comes across as modern?  Maybe something that could ONLY be done on present day hardware that would introduce new ideas and concepts that future games would feel inspired to copy?  Retro made two Wii games.  Metroid Prime 3 is perhaps the most ambitious Wii game, making full use of both the hardware and the controller.  DKC Returns only uses the controller for waggle and its 2D design is such that aside from a hit to the graphics it could have easily been made for older hardware.  The more ambitious game is ironically the OLDER one.  They're going backwards.

What successful console has ever sold on old ass ideas?  Even the Wii with it's glorified refurbed Gamecube hardware still sold on Wii Sports which used the unique features of the console in a way that could never have been done on any previous console.  You HAD to buy a Wii to play Wii Sports.  No one needs to buy a Wii U to play practically ANY of the games Nintendo has offered except Nintendo Land.  They're on the Wii U entirely because Nintendo decided to put them there.  Even Pikmin 3, which is probably the most ambitious Wii U title, doesn't do anything that couldn't have been done on the PS3 or Xbox 360 years ago.  The only reason it isn't on those older consoles that are in theory part of the previous generation is because Nintendo owns the IP and wouldn't support the competitor.  But if you wanted to make a game just like it you wouldn't need to make it on the Wii U (or the PS4 or XB1 since that's the true competition here).

So I would say at this point when Nintendo needs to try to sell Wii Us a game like DKC which does not offer any gameplay experience that is truly new that someone HAS to buy a Wii U for is a waste of, hell, ANY dev's talents.  Compare this to something like Super Mario 64 which could never have been done on any console prior to the N64/PS1 generation or really any of the N64 games that came out within that first year.  The N64 had its third party problems but there is no doubt that Nintendo's games were doing things no one had seen before.  The Wii U has all the third party problems but without the cutting edge games.

AdrockOctober 03, 2013

Quote from: Ian

To me the whole appeal of the 2D platformer revival was that that genre had been dormant for a while so it was really cool to get some new games in that retro style.

Don't 2D Mario platformers routinely outsell the 3D ones? I could have sworn Luigi Dude posted sales data of that which I'm too lazy to look for. If that's the case, it seems like people just like the genre. It was neglected because everyone, including Nintendo, thought people just wanted 3D. If it was all just a nostalgia trip, those games would have stopped selling. Look at JRPGs. They were booming in the late 1990s and early 2000s, but they've been relegated to niche status since.

Quote:

How about Retro work on something that comes across as modern?  Maybe something that could ONLY be done on present day hardware that would introduce new ideas and concepts that future games would feel inspired to copy?

What the hell does that first question even mean? And why are you suggesting that something "modern" automatically means "better?"

As for the second question, good luck with that. Asking a developer to just revolutionize game design is no easy task. More importantly, a developer is capable of doing that in any genre, but when was the last time anyone has done that? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Shinji Mikami with Resident Evil 4. I don't know if he invented the over the shoulder third person aiming, but games started adopting it after RE4.

Quote:

What successful console has ever sold on old ass ideas?

Is that a serious question? Many of the really popular games this past generation were based on old ideas. I'm curious what games you're alluding to that are filled with all of these new ideas that inspire other game designers and can't be done on existing hardware. I'm going to be honest, there has been nothing shown on PS4/One that I feel couldn't be done on their predecessors other than graphics. That's why I'm waiting until 2015 at the earliest to pick up a PS4.

Quote:

So I would say at this point when Nintendo needs to try to sell Wii Us a game like DKC which does not offer any gameplay experience that is truly new that someone HAS to buy a Wii U for is a waste of, hell, ANY dev's talents.

Are you buying a PS4 or One at launch? Either way, what cutting edge games coming out for them do you want to buy? If you're going to rant up the forums and make claims that Nintendo isn't presenting new ideas, it's only natural that you should follow up with examples of games and developers that are pushing the creative envelope.

ThePermOctober 03, 2013

This whole thread is hyperbole. I don't think Wii U is going anywhere. Nintendo will not discontinue a console. They will be delusional about what they need to do for success.  The ywill try until they are moderately successful.

ThePermOctober 03, 2013

yeah, not being able to edit sucks. Anyway. They Will Be at least moderately successful. I expect Nintendo to sell no less then 30 million Consoles.

azekeOctober 03, 2013

Playing games? Pffffft. Aint nobody got time for that. I've got walls of texts about imaginary slights to dump.


Playing videogames... Yeah, right.

Luigi DudeOctober 03, 2013

Quote from: Adrock

Don't 2D Mario platformers routinely outsell the 3D ones? I could have sworn Luigi Dude posted sales data of that which I'm too lazy to look for. If that's the case, it seems like people just like the genre. It was neglected because everyone, including Nintendo, thought people just wanted 3D. If it was all just a nostalgia trip, those games would have stopped selling. Look at JRPGs. They were booming in the late 1990s and early 2000s, but they've been relegated to niche status since.

Yep, from Nintendo's own sales data.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/software/wii.html

New Super Mario Bros Wii - 27.88 million

Super Mario Galaxy - 11.72 million


And just for fun, here's the sales for the other 2D Platformers released on the Wii that broke a million in a single year.


Donkey Kong Country Returns - 4.98 million (These sales are from March 31st 2011, so the game easily surpassed the 5 million mark by now)

Kirby's Epic Yarn - 1.59 million

Kirby's Return to Dream Land - 1.31 million

No sales for Wario Land Shake were ever released since it never managed to sell over a million in any individual year.  Of course it doesn't matter since Good Feel's second game was a success hence why they're making a 2D Yoshi for the Wii U.


So yeah, unlike what Ian might think, the sales show that Nintendo's 2D Platformers on home consoles are still pretty popular to a lot of people.

smallsharkbigbiteOctober 03, 2013

Quote from: Luigi

Once again, Retro wanted to make a sequel to Donkey Kong Country Returns.  Retro could have made something else but they choose to make a sequel because they still had a lot of idea's left over from DKCR that they wanted to do.

The team probably gets bonuses based on the sales of the game. If true they would no doubt pick the game with higher potential sales. They'd probably pick another NSMB over DKC given the option.

Ian SaneOctober 03, 2013

Quote:

What the hell does that first question even mean? And why are you suggesting that something "modern" automatically means "better?"

What I'm saying is that if Nintendo is going to tell me that I need to spend a couple hundred bucks on a new videogame system to play their games they better be offering games that actually require a new console.  That's why having modern games is important.  It makes no sense to move to new hardware if the developers do nothing new with it.  And I'm not praising the PS4 or XB1 here, just pointing out that the Wii U is selling poorly and Nintendo considers it a top priority to pump out multiple games from multiple teams with old-fashioned gameplay.  Not like those games are bad or new games are automatically better but it makes no sense to use them to push a new console.

As for 2D Mario's sales, how about you bust out NSMB U's numbers because that's what matters here.  So all these retro games sold well on the Wii, the console that everyone owned.  Did all these people buy a Wii for NSMB Wii or did they buy it for Wii Sports?  They came for Wii Sports and stayed for NSMB.  Wii U doesn't really have a Wii Sports equivalent aside from maybe Nintendo Land but that seems to lack the "dream game" wish fulfillment that Wii Sports offered.  When having to face the responsibility of selling a new console NSMB U has come up embarrassingly short.  Mario Kart didn't move Gamecubes but was a massive hit on the Wii.  What the hell is the difference between Double Dash and Mario Kart Wii that would cause that?  It seems to me that one was on a console that underachieved while the other was on one that sold like hotcakes, to the point that it would instantly sell out of every store for a span of two years, on the strength of a killer app with arguably the most massive mainstream appeal any videogame has ever had.

I think Nintendo thinks the same way.  They see that games x, y and z sold big on the Wii and figured that conventional follow-ups would sell Wii U's but they failed to analyze exactly what sold the Wii in the first place.  And this out-of-nowhere Wii Sports remake suggests that they noticed Wii Sports was missing and quickly included it but still miss the point because Wii Sports, the literal game, wasn't the core selling point.  The selling point was the new idea that Wii Sports brought forward and now it's no longer new.  They don't need a new Wii Sports but rather the next Wii Sports, the next game that pushes a new idea that catches on and sells consoles.

Mop it upOctober 05, 2013

I wasn't planning to get this game on launch anyway, and I'm still not, so this doesn't really affect me personally.

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