I figure Miyamoto doesn't see games as art.  He gives the vibe that he sees it as entertainment at best and product at worst.  I think we, the fans, tend to see his work more as art because we're often so blown away.

Kojima said the same thing, but you have to consider they're Japanese, and things translate differently culturally. Games are just as much art as movies. Anything made by people is art yo.

The can of worms has been opened...

That's right.  Commercial games are commercial toys.

Art doesn't have to sell.  Tho I suppose if your game doesn't sell, you can call it art all you want -- no one cares.

Is there any chance at all of this thread not turning into a semantic discussion of what art is?

I just took a poop, was that art? most gamers are very naive at what is art. Their under the illusion that if something makes you feel an emotion then it's art. I'm very surprised by how many want video games to be art, yet know nothing about general art. It seems gamers are trying to justify their hobbies. I'm surprise when I hear "Yo, Heavy Rain has the best story I have ever experience." Really? Never heard of Kafka, Dostoevsky or Albert Camus? That is real story telling told well and that is ART.

I've always believed that the constant need for some people to label games as "art" has to do with their parents not "getting" videogames and telling them it's "a waste of time", so they feel they need to justify their hobby by making it into something grander than it really is.

"No, I didn't just blow off that alien's head because I thought it was fun and exciting, I did it because the alien represents the inner conflict my bald space marine faces. It represents his distant, verbally abusive step-father."

your post made me smile :)

HAHAHAHA! I love goony people like that too! The sunday Heart Gold and Soul Silver came out, a friend of mine I was catching up with, told me he still played Pokemon (at age 23 or more) because of the money involved from winning tournaments. I wanted to slap him, and make fun of him. I remember how I used to justify playing games when I was a teenager, man I was stupid too.

Probably not. I don't even see why it matters. Does games being art have any relation to the enjoyment people get from them? It seems like people tend to label mostly poor-selling games as art. Something about art being unappreciated, when really the games are likely either bad, or just have a very limited appeal.

I think like beauty, art is in the eye of the beholder.  The works of Mozart are unanimously considered art but the latest pop single is open to debate, despite them both being music.  It's all so subjective and people tend to use the "art" definition to state that their tastes are objectively correct.  It goes beyond "I don't like that" to "this doesn't count".

I consider something art if it's a human work where I am impressed by the skill and creativity that was required to achieve it.  So I would consider videogames as a potential art form but would not consider all games to be art since I am not impressed by all games.  If I feel an admiration for the creator then I would call it art.

It's worth nothing that legally videogames are granted copyrights instead of patents like an invention would get.  They share that in common with paintings, sculptures, songs, films, books - all of which are unanimously considered artforms.

As an art major, I don't care. :P  Although with video games becoming increasingly like movies the lines are kind of blurred.  Kind of hard to judge something that's barely even what? 30 years old? 

Too broad. Anything made by humans without a practical purpose is art. Hammers and nails aren't art.

But hammers and nails could be art if they were represented in a statue.

(I hate modern art)

Come on you guys I'm sure Perm was talking about the things people generally call art. As far as this art talk goes a game can be the most sophisticated thing ever and with lots of culture and all that jazz but if it isn't fun to me than it doesn't matter if it is art to everybody else.

I much rather focus on the teaching tools part of this news.
I think the moving DS into schools is a great idea. There has been talk in the past that school needed to be made more interesting so the students gravitate to the curriculum more than before. So I think this initiative is a good idea.         

hehe heres some art by my sculpture teacher

http://eportfolio.cfa.arizona.edu/gallery.php?portid=715&sec=1391&oid=8107

http://eportfolio.cfa.arizona.edu/gallery.php?portid=715&sec=1392&oid=13942

ever hear of Duchamp?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_%28Duchamp%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Ofili

Don't forget about Chris Ofili!

pee makes a good art medium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

I swear Miyamoto once said that violence in games was expression. Expression is art. Fuck him. he's mad.

Does that mean commercial art isn't art?

http://www.kcra.com/entertainment/22850174/detail.html

GAMES.

ARE.

TOYS.

And as they age, toys transform into art.

LIKE MY OPTIMUS PRIME ACTION FIGURE

http://toysasart.blogspot.com/

toys are art

Then rip them out of the packages and play with those.

LOL that is the creepiest site I've ever seen!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srW8YGS-Ngw