He can't be too surprised.  It's no coincidence that the series has had dwindling sales to coincide with the dwindling quality of each installment.  The sales will return when Nintendo gets its act together and gives the next installment the AAA effort it needs to become relevant again, and that means doing the game themselves this time.

Ahhgg. If only this article could say at the end, "Miyamoto also said that he recognized these as clearly terrible ideas and will not be using them in future Star Fox games on the Wii"

It should be noted that Star Fox 64 was released early in the Nintendo 64's market life and Star Fox Assault was released late in the GameCube's market life. The N64 also had a larger userbase.

Star Fox Command however can make no such excuses.

Nor can Star Fox's Shit Adventrue. It had Gamecube's Xmas all to itself and it fucking blew it because Rare suck shit.

It also doen't help that the strong contingent of bestiality practitioners are becoming the vocal supporters of the franchise. These unwashed masses are scaring everyday people away from the game.

Star Fox Command is a great game. I don't like it as much as SF64, but it's my next favorite in the series. Command suffered mostly from the franchise's tarnished reputation from the previous games.

I somewhat agree.  It's similar to what's happened to Sonic.

I also thought Star Fox Command was OK.  It was at least better than Assault, which is the counter-argument to F-Zero GX for Nintendo letting prospective third parties handle in-house IP.  Namco dragged their feet for almost 2 years on that game, and whether it was sabotage or incompetence, left a steaming pile where the game was supposed to be.

"But we still try to make them more fun and hopefully people will see the appeal in those games"

Does this suggest that at least one new Star Fox game is being worked on?  (Not that it's a surprise...)

Wow! Miyamoto is talking about Star Fox! He feels how I feel! Sort of...

Nintendo just go back to the Star Fox 64 formula, but most of all do it yourself! Please please please!

Star Fox 64 is in Miyamot's top 3 games of all time! I mean come on, he must have allot of ambition to try and top that one. Too bad Star Fox hasn't pulled a TP yet. At least TP was a solid Zelda game that was too familiar. I would die for a solid Star Fox that was too familiar.

this is how rumors get started. Now quickly, go spread it.

I didn't mind that they added on-foot missions it's just how they were executed that bugged me.

If they could have combined the on-foot gameplay like SF Adventure but with lasers instead of that staff, along with the Arwing missions of Assault, they might have pulled off a good title.

But yeah, whatever they decide to do it HAS to be a Nintendo-made game this time.

Assault had a good game buried deep down inside, it just had a lot of terrible execution, awkward controls and cheesy Saturday morning cartoon vibes covering it up. The multiplayer had a lot of potential.

Yeah, I half hoped Namco would try again & work out some of those issues.

While the plot did suck, I have to admit I like how they revamped Wolf O' Donnell.

It also suffered from horrible controls and really generic design once you got into battle, along with one of the most fan fiction-y stories I've ever seen.  I liked the strategy portion of the game, but the rest of the game was just a mess.

Wait, if Nintendo makes a new Star Fox game, that'll mean a new On-Rails Shooter for the Wii.  We're supposed to hate those, aren't we?  ;)

Wait, if Nintendo makes a new Star Fox game, that'll mean a new On-Rails Shooter for the Wii.  We're supposed to hate those, aren't we?  ;)

Command is a very mediocre game because what it did right was counter-balanced by what it did wrong. I wrote this whole rant about it over on the forum Maxi lured me over to, i'll try to dig it up if i can but it's probably not even worth it.

Assault wasn't a terrible game, with some Nintendo polish it would of been better but still not a great title like SF64 was. It's sad because the potential to expand the series was all there, just executed piss poorly.

SF Adventure shouldn't even be brought up in the argument because it wasn't a Star Fox game. No i'm not saying that to troll the fanboys (cuz i'm one of 'em!) or because it deviated too much from the SF formula, i'm saying it because its TRUE. It was N64's Dinasaur Planet revamped for Gamecube with Team Star Fox shoe horned into it. Basically, thanks to Nintendo themselves the Star Fox series nosedived (pun intended!) after the second installment. Way to go.

All they need to do is make a Star Fox 64 2.0 with an in-house dev-team to bring the series back to a respectable place, so whats the fucking hold up? Once Star Fox is known as a good series again, they can tweak the formula to include things introduced in Assault and Command just fix them so they don't suck ass. Like no more furry fan-fiction!

edit: Caterkiller brings up one of the reasons SF:C was crappy; it was strictly all-range mode "levels". A new Star Fox game should have a mix of both types of levels, but the all-range levels can't be so fucking bare bone like they were in SF:C (and SF64).

This may be the exact reason why Star Fox hasn't shown up yet. The franchise has seen such a negative downfall that Nintendo wonders if it's even worth diving into the franchise again. That, and furry fan freaks have seem to migrated into the respectable Star Fox fanbase (ie us).

Obviously, all Nintendo has to do is develop Star Fox in-house and avoid the mistake Assault and Command made. Star Fox 64 is still my favorite video game, and I'm sure some of the staff that worked on that game is still with Nintendo.

Exactly. Even if some of that staff isn't with them, let them make an updated game that's essentially a Play On Wii type title :P I wouldn't care ;)

But seriously, just ONE good SF developed internally by one of their best teams would make this franchise respectable again, and they wouldn't even have to do much since they could just use SF64 (i.e. the one that worked!) as a template!

Knowing nintendo, they're probably thinking up a good peripheral to sell this game with. Maybe a "rumble pak +TM"

remember, i called it first!

It would probably be some sort of dock so that you can the Wiimote as a flight stick. It will be the same peripheral that Pilot Wings Wii will be compatible with.

remember, i called it first!

Actually i've thrown out the flight-stick dock peripheral out there in one of the pre-wii threads. I think Stogi started the thread about wii game ideas, i even used SF as an example.

Andy, I am very dissapointed in you. Using VG Chartz as a source is like putting your hand in bowl and pulling out a random number. They pull their numbers out of their ass and not the least bit reliable.

Disney's Magical Mirrors sold 1.23 million copies. Is that true? I don't know, but that is as reliable as any number VG Chartz has. Using them as a source hurts the credibility of anyone who uses them (it's like using studies conducted by health insurance companies about whether heath insurance needs reform. You look like a joke if you use that data).

On topic, Nintendo needs to take Star Fox back to its roots. They also should handle it themselves rather than second-rate developers like Rare.

I know Miyamoto is all busy and doesn't get involved with games like he used to, but with Star Fox being one of his favorites I would imagine he would want a quality team behind it, with being to look over the game to see how it develops.

No way Miyamoto even knew what was going on at Namco before the game was released.

Remember the good ol rumors about 4 player co-op? I think even Namco themselves talked about it.

This topic makes me feel ashamed to have never played a Star Fox game.

You should have been ashamed of that long before this thread. You own Star Fox 64, which is the best one, go play it now.

Chalk it up to me being the new guy.  You're absolutely right on this.  We've edited this out of the original story.

It's a little late since the damage is already done, but we will all do our best to forget it happened as long as you promise not to do it again.

To me, it sounds like he has plans on wiiafying an older game or two and market those first.

I reckon they ought to release some prequels. The original team Star Fox chronicling the defection of Pigma. Maybe Fox and Bill's time at the academy. Shit like that.

Remember the e-mails and petitions regarding LAN 8-16 player multi being added to Assault? Remember how the email replies changed to make it sound like had their attention and they looked like they would add it and then the game got delayed and look what happened there. That was a huge letdown for me.

Star Fox command wasn't bad, I certainly enjoyed it. It's a game with a lot of wasted potential.

Assault was a lot of fun and felt like Battlefield Lite. Unfortunately, most of the maps were too small to fly in.

Haven't played Adventure.

64 was good, but I found it far less fun than the original. There is no sense of danger about it. It's too easy and degrades into a shooting gallery most of this time.

Original is awesome. Graphically, just hasn't stood up at all, but the sense of chaos and speed is still there. My personal favorite.

I agreed with everything but those last two points, but only to an extent.. While I agree that SF64 didn't have the difficulty of the original, it was still difficult in its own right. I still haven't gotten a metal on Sector Z... :(

As for the original, it's not just the graphics that haven't held up well; That sense of speed you're talking about just isn't there anymore, especially compared to how fluent everything in SF64 was.

The fluidity in SF64 is what I awaited in Assault. And boy was it crapy! The Arwings flew soooo slowly! Yeah I get it they wanted more enemies on screen or some crap, but it wasn't worth it at all! When you did a U-Turn or Summersault? Good god was the animation crappy, especialy if you were near a wall or something, it just looked down right aweful.

I thought if anything multiplayer would be its saving grace. Because in 64 my friends and I used to have some heated matches! And every vehicle was equal in the sense that no arwing was faster than the other, and used some special technique to spam to victory.  But in Assault the maps were so HUGE and the Arwings were so slow! There was absolutely no way to have any type of fun. My brother was so dissapointed in me because I refused to play after a 3rd or 4th time. He remembered how I did nothing but play Star fox 64 in Junior High, and expected the same here.

Everything about Assault was aweful in my opinion. Crapy voice work, animation, gameplay, controls, story and don't get me started on riding on top of an arwing! I mean really? Fox will ride on a high speed jet? (Well low speed now I suppose) Because wolf can't fly around and kill everything himself? I HATE NAMCO! Where's my real soul calibur for wii!?!?

LOL Funniest rant i've heard here in a loooong time! I still don't think SF:A was THAT bad, at least the thing was playable. I'm just of the opinion that it shouldn't of been a SF game but a new IP that had a few SF-like qualitys. If that was the case, the game wouldn't be as infamous as it is though; it just be another decent-at-best 3rd party game for Gamecube.

I still think Nintendo should put one of their best teams to work on a new Star Fox and make it play a little more similar to SF64 with perhaps a few elements of Assault and Command thrown in and call it a day. They can even throw in a couple of "casual-friendly" options a-la NSMBW and the Super Guide... though admittedly i won't know how that would work. They could just take a page out of Mario Galaxy's book and include a casual-friendly co-op mode: One player pilots the Arwing and plays like normal, but at any time a second player can come in with only a wii-remote and help shoot of some lasers. The second player could be Rob64 backing you up from the Great Fox.

By the way, the Great Fox in Command looked like garbage to me dammit1

Starfox Wii won't be made?!

VENDETTA!

Mario Tennis DS hasn't been made.

D=

Mario Golf DS hasn't been made.

Boo.

Mario Basketball is just so much better than tennis and golf combined.

Word!

Wish Squenix made the game better. =/

Star Fox 64 was fantastic and like any great Nintendo game you could choose how difficult it was going to be for you in regards to the path you wanted to take along with challenges to complete. Star Fox never clicked with me, it felt like a flashy tech demo and was made hard by the relatively new technology with lots of pop up.

Nintendo releasing flashy tech-demo's as full games? I've never heard of such a thing!

Don't listen to these chumps.  TJ Spyke is just being an ass and I'm pretty sure BNM is kidding.

VG Chartz is a decent enough guess in the long-term (perhaps not in the first couple months) that its numbers can be used to make the point you were trying to get across.

I haven't played the original Star Fox since I sold my SNES all those years ago, but I rather enjoyed it.  In fact, I kind of hope the next Star Fox returns to something more like the abstract look of the first game.  Is it just me, or has the vehicle designs and "epic space fights" looked worse as the series has gone on and the designs have gotten more elaborate?

BNM: I don't comment on rumors and speculation

Forum: Links to Official Wii Rumor thread

BNM: ....

Well, they're right that VGChartz is sometimes (perhaps often) inaccurate.  I stand by the point made in the story, and removing the reference to VGChartz doesn't really change anything about what I wrote. 

I kinda have to agree with this. The Arwings were pretty slick looking when they were pointy, but the rounded WEINER-MOBILE WITH WINGS look they had going in Assault just looked awful. Like a weiner-mobile with wings.

wieners and foxes are dogs, after all.

i remember a year or two ago there was a topic on the forum that i may have started... or at least took over about starfox.  i really really think the game needs a reboot.  i also would love to see it in a wing commander (if any one remembers these games) type of story and open world environment.  you would not be taking to much away from the core mechanics of starfox... however you would be updating it as far as what modern systems are capable of.  every one here needs to remember starfox was a big deal originally due to the cutting edge graphics of the time.  it also had a massive ad campaign behind it.  star fox 64 was a sequel to a massive game. and it had the rumble gimic with it.  all other star fox games were pretty much changed and buried by nintendo.

More emphasis on story and open-world environments is the exact opposite of what Star Fox should be.

I had already made peace with the fact that Star Fox was dead and Sin & Punishment 2 was the closest we were going to get on the Wii. Damn you, Miyamoto; damn you for giving me hope.

Fully agree.

Ohhhh yeah... forgot all about Sin & Punishment 2, which by coincidence was released in Japan today.

Miyamoto: We're not sure if there is still a market or audience for a new entry in the Star Fox franchise, so we made Sin & Punishment 2 as a test. If Sin & Punishment 2 sells well, we might bring over a new version of Star Fox for the Wii gamers.

If the chances of a new Star Fox depend on the sales of Sin & Punishment 2 then Star Fox is truly dead.

I wouldn't mind if they just swapped out S&P2's characters with 2 versions of Krystal and called it a rebooted StarFox (meow~~~) franchise.

I have to agree with the majority opinion here: Star Fox does not need an emphasis on story.  I do think, however, that it does need an emphasis on storytelling, and yes there is a difference.  Look at the original Star Wars, which Star Fox often gets compared to: the story itself is very simple and straightforward ("young farmboy gets pulled into a massive battle between a tyranical Empire and a Rebel Alliance"), but what enraptured people was how the story was told; the characters; and the universe it suggested.  We don't need a big elaborate story in a new Star Fox with piles of cutscenes, but the story it has has to be told well and told earnestly.  That's something we haven't gotten in a Star Fox game in quite a long time, especially in Command.

Story's not important. What's important, as Star Fox 64 proved, is coming up with lines of dialogue that will be quoted as internet memes for years and decades to come.

^You gonna listen to this MONKEY?!

^Your father used to help me like that too!

^Do a Barrel Roll!

Seriously, I'm disappointed in you lot for not starting with that one.

"Andross won't have his way with me!"

We were just avoiding the obvious,
"Oh look I've been saved by fox, isn't that swell!"

"Bobobabo"

POTY. Excellent execution buddy.

Good. Yell "no means NO!" then blow your rape whistle. "FOX, GET THIS GUY OFF ME!"

well i guess im alone.  but then again so are the 4 people who bought the last 2 star fox games.  face it this series needs a jolt in the arm or its going to just die.  every one was pissed with metroid prime and that direction, until they played it.  i promise if you give me 1.5 years and a decent sized team and i can have starfox both re-imagined... and re-energized. 

You're not alone for wanting it.. just alone amongst this forum :P Now I still don't agree that SF needs to be some crazy massive space-epic but I do agree that it needs a jolt in the arm.. just not too much of a jolt. Too much and you end up with Chris Redfields arm's in RE5 :P

A re-imagining is probably too much to ask for, hell i don't think the series even deserves a reboot to be honest, just a GOOD game in the series to forget all the bad ones. This can be done simply by sticking to the formula AND fixing what was broken in the last few SF games (the parts that worked anyway) and of course this can only be done if Nintendo makes the game themselves. At least this is the one point we can definately agree on.

Does anybody have any recommendations for games like Star Fox?  Preferably like the SNES iteration.

You mean terrible with lots of pop up? Hmmm, can't help you out. ;)

You know its funny because I have never ever played a game like Star Fox at all. Sin and Punishment 2 looks like a Star Fox type game but thats in the future. I don't know what part 1 was like, I guess I should get it.

S&P isn't much like Star Fox other than forwarding-viewing rail shooting.  Star Fox (especially the original) also had a lot of maneuvering around obstacles.

I think there was a GBA game called Star X. Same graphical style as the original Star Fox.Haven't played it but I heard it was decent.

Independence Day for Sega Saturn.

Ikaruga? :P

If you happen to have access to a Saturn, Panzer Dragoon (not Saga) is very Star Fox-esque.

If you have an Xbox 360 I'd recommend an XBLA game called Aces of the Galaxy, or something like that.

That is the game I was trying to think of, it was a really good Star Fox clone

Have you tried Red Alarm for VB?

Yeah, I believe I bought it on your recommendation.

Yes :(

Despite the headaches, I rather enjoyed Red Alarm on VB.

Vortex for the Super NES seems like a spiritual sequel to Star Fox. It's a 3D shooting game, only you use a mech robot instead of a flying ship.

Speaking of, any chance of Star Fox 2 appearing on the VC or prettied up for WiiWare?

Didn't Miyamoto comment a while ago about the possibility of revamping Star Fox 2 for WW/VC? To my recollection the game was practically finished when it was scrapped.

How about Thorium Wars for DSiWare?

If you want to play a game like Wing Commander, why not try to get that series resurrected instead?  I'll even join you on that crusade.  Star Fox occupied a pretty specific niche, and I think most people are thinking of that type of gameplay when they talk about revitalizing the franchise, not the characters and setting.  Granted, the characters are what made it so memorable, but they're demonstrably not enough to carry the series.  If they were, this discussion wouldn't even be happening.

For me Star Fox needs to do more than just become good again.  I need a very exceptional Star Fox game to grab my attention and win me back.  And that's just how things are when something loses me.  When a franchise goes off the rails it loses my trust and my interest.  If Nintendo announces a new Star Fox game I won't pay much attention to it.  I won't assume that it's worth my effort to look into.  And it's not because I'm mean or stubborn it's just how things work.  I can only pay attention to so many things at once.  Star Fox, like Sonic, currently equals TEH SUCK in my mind, so I don't pay much attention to it anymore.  It's almost a sub-conscience thing.

So to grab me and make me pay attention so that I even know that Star Fox is good again, it has to be this big GOTY kind of game.  It has to be as good as Star Fox 64.  If all you hear is "it's better than Assault" or "it's pretty good except for..." it won't do it for me.  Those are wishy-washy apoligetic prasies.  It has to win over the skeptics, not the die-hards who will try to find enjoyment no matter what.

A minor example would be Super Mario Galaxy.  Super Mario Sunshine was not the best.  It was still very good and it was just one mis-step so it's not the best example.  But it was enough that there was concern.  But Galaxy, from just the first footage, was so HUGE that it grabbed my full attention.  And, hey, the main Mario series is back in the saddle.  That's what I need.  I need a "holy shit, Star Fox is back" kind of game, not a "oh this new Star Fox is supposed to not suck as much."

Though I can't tell if Miyamoto is trying to put a positive spin on things or has Nintendo really not put the pieces together?  It's quite damn obvious why Star Fox doesn't sell so well but does Miyamoto understand that or is it a mystery to him?  I don't expect him to publicly say "our more recent games sucked and that's why they didn't sell so well" but I certainly hope that Nintendo understands that THAT is the reason.

I think that a new Star Fox on Wii would have a great potential to sell. I think that a SF returning to the series' roots would sell more copies than the touchscreen and on-foot gimmicks would.