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Wii

More Revolution Tidbits

by Rick Powers - May 13, 2005, 11:52 am PDT
Total comments: 114 Source: Nintendo

Update: Nintendo clarifies some of the language on its website.

Update: Nintendo has revised some of the text in their website post, removing the reference to "standard double-layered DVD discs", and replacing it with the following.

"Nintendo's legions of loyal fans will be happy to learn that Revolution will be backward compatible, playing both Nintendo GameCube 8cm disks along with its own 12cm optical disks in the same self-loading media drive."

At this point, we don't know why the change was made, but it could unfortunately be due to the confusion as to whether or not Revolution will be able to play DVD Movies as well as games. GameCube's GD-ROM discs are based on DVD technology, but with key anti-piracy features and other differences. It now seems that the Revolution media will have more in common with the GameCube discs than the "standard" DVD media.

The original quotes from the website are below ...


Nintendo updated their website this morning with a few more details, building off of Perrin Kaplan's statements to The New York Times from yesterday.

"In its final form, Revolution will be about the thickness of three standard DVD cases and only slightly longer. The versatile Revolution will play either horizontally or vertically, allowing the user total flexibility in setting up a gaming session wherever they have a television."

"Thanks to Nintendo's hardware development partners IBM and ATI, the small system will be packed with power that will enable it to wow players with its graphics. Nintendo's legions of loyal fans will be happy to learn that Revolution will be backward compatible, playing both Nintendo GameCube 3-inch disks along with its own standard, double-layered DVD disks in the same self-loading media drive."

Nintendo goes on to off-handedly mention quick start-up times, quiet and low-power operation, and of course, wireless internet included.

Four days left ...

Talkback

RickPowersRick Powers, Staff AlumnusMay 13, 2005

So no HD-DVD, but double-layered DVD (also called DVD9, because they can hold just about 9GB) instead, again showing parity with Xbox 360. I do wonder about this choice, but apparently Sony is willing to throw money at maintaining a dominance position, since it is still expected that they will be using the Blu-Ray disc technology, capable of storing up to 50GB (likely only 25GB at launch). However, 9GB should be more than adequate for most games, few games today truly max out even a single-layer DVD.

It is the last statement that truly interests me, however. "Self-loading media drive" sounds a lot like a slot-loading drive, similar to the Apple Mac Mini and Powerbook. How could they do that with the smaller GameCube discs? I guess we'll find out in just a few days.

I'm still not sure why everyone is getting on the vertical tower bandwagon Sony started. I use an AV cabinet, so it's far more convenient to keep my consoles horizontal, but to each his (or her) own.

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorMay 13, 2005

Don't the self loading drives in mac-mini's etc already support the miniature cds? I thought they did....hmm

RickPowersRick Powers, Staff AlumnusMay 13, 2005

Could be, I'm not totally familiar with it.

TalonMay 13, 2005

Damn, with matsushita backing blu-ray I was hoping they would influence Nintendo to go with blu-ray. I suppose though it would really push the price of the revolution up considering you still cant buy a blu-ray player. Oh well, if nintendo is releasing revolution in 2006 the price of a blu-ray drive might be cheap enough for them to change it.

Bill AurionMay 13, 2005

"Nintendo goes on to off-handedly mention quick start-up times, quiet and low-power operation, and of course, wireless internet included."

face-icon-small-thumbsup.gif

(And I SERIOUSLY doubt Ninty would ever consider going with a competitor's media...That's absurd...)

The OmenMay 13, 2005

Quote

Damn, with matsushita backing blu-ray I was hoping they would influence Nintendo to go with blu-ray. I suppose though it would really push the price of the revolution up considering you still cant buy a blu-ray player. Oh well, if nintendo is releasing revolution in 2006 the price of a blu-ray drive might be cheap enough for them to change it.

-------------------------


Oh for God sake! Listen up! Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are one in the same now. Toshiba and Sony have combined both together and the final specs will be released within the next month.

hudsonhawkMay 13, 2005

Quote

Oh for God sake! Listen up! Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are one in the same now. Toshiba and Sony have combined both together and the final specs will be released within the next month.


Though that's looking likely to happen, Toshiba has been downplaying those reports.

But the fact is, this is probably similar to Microsoft's decision to make the DVD player optional on the original Xbox - neither Nintendo nor MS want to be paying their cheif competitor royalties on every single console sale.

FamicomMay 13, 2005

Toshiba's own press release from 3 days ago confrims there are/were talks, but denies anything is set in stone. So don't jump on that unification bandwagon yet.

lastexitMay 13, 2005

Not a chance in hell that Nintendo would pay Sony licensing fees for Blu-Ray. Even if they "merge" the technologies they'll both be getting a license fee which will probably go up, hence the upside for toshiba/sony to do it.

With regular dvd it made less difference but i'm thinking that if I get an hd tv i'm going to want a high-quality hd-dvd player that's really designed for that purpose rather than shoe-horned into a console.

anubis6789May 13, 2005

When I read about the drive in the Mac Mini it said only normal sized disk can go into the disc drive. I would give you a link but I don't remember were I saw it. I think it was at apples own site so go snoop around there and you will probably find it.

I was still hoping they were going to use a flip-top style, I preffer those. I just hope they keep the power supply sepperate from the system again like every other system they have ever made. In my opinion most of the problems in consoles come from the fact that the power supply is right next to everything else, causing over heating.

Techniclly DVD is made by a competitor and they are going to use that so why not Blu-ray. I mean isn't that one of the reasons Nintendo has a strong partnership with Matsushita/Panasonic, so that they can use these new technologies.

bubicusMay 13, 2005

Hmmmm.... slightly longer than a DVD case.......... the proportions would be close to a 16:9 widescreen, wouldn't it? Could there be a portable LCD screen in the near future so we can watch DVDs on the go with the Revolution or take it anywhere for gaming?

KirbySStarMay 13, 2005

anubis, if they wish to keep the system small then they will keep the power supply separate like the did with the cube. It's only logical. Plus, it's a safety precaution.

I am very excited with this news. E3 is looking better now since it appears Nintendo was waiting for Microsoft to make announcements first.

ArtimusMay 13, 2005

The self-loading really does sound nice, it's one of the nice features of the Mac laptops and Mini. But wow, that system is small! Could MS be the big system once again? Not that it matters face-icon-small-happy.gif

This is odd though because they know a lot more finalized details than they let on. Four days indeed face-icon-small-happy.gif

Bill AurionMay 13, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: bubicus
Hmmmm.... slightly longer than a DVD case.......... could there be a portable LCD screen in the near future so we can watch DVDs on the go with the Revolution or take it anywhere for gaming?

Very likely, in my opinion...Ninty was showing off that beautiful LCD GC screen a while back, so if they see a market for it we could easily see a Rev version in the future...

mantidorMay 13, 2005

I still wonder why a dev would need 25 GB media... to fill it with cutscenes perhaps? because thats all I could think about.

anubis6789May 13, 2005

Mantidor, developers could use that extra space to add much more then just cutscenes like voice overs, and horrible liscensed music, you know everything that most Nintendo gamers hate(or maybe just me), because God forbid you actually add more game related content.

Wow, as each day passes the more jaded I become.

Kirby, thanks for quelling my fear, your probably right.

Ian SaneMay 13, 2005

Dual layered DVDs hold 9 GB. That's pretty huge for a game. I think Xenosaga uses that much space but nothing else I can think of does and that's loaded with FMV. And it's not hard to go to two discs for 18 GB. If they really want 25 then they can use three discs and have 27. There were PSX games that were on four discs. It's not weird to go with multiple discs and the odds of ever needing that are like never.

I imagine blu-ray discs cost more money to make. So devs on the PS3 will have to pay extra for space they most of the time won't need. It's a waste. The drive would likely drive the console price up as well. Do you want to pay more money to play games that are less than 9 GB stored on 25 GB discs?

CDs quickly proved to be too small since there were so many multi-disc games on the Playstation so at the time it was clear that something bigger was needed for the next generation. There aren't a bunch of double DVD games showing that the current format is too small so there's less justification for switching to something else. Even two disc Cube games were pretty rare so even 1.5 GB was enough for most games. 9 GB is plenty. In fact for most games it's a little excessive.

couchmonkeyMay 13, 2005

I think 9GBs is plenty too, but there's always a way to use that space.
Take Ubisoft. Prince of Persia had all languages on one disc, which explains why the GameCube version had such horrible sound quality. Maybe this will be less of a problem than in the last two generations, but I see this potentially becoming a small advantage for Sony. It's iffy. Since MS is going DVD9 too, Nintendo isn't putting itself in a really bad position. Sony will be the only one ahead, and devs will probably design less with 25 GB in mind and more with 9.

Ian SaneMay 13, 2005

"Sony will be the only one ahead, and devs will probably design less with 25 GB in mind and more with 9."

This gen a lot of multiplatform games were designed with the weakest hardware in mind (ie: PS2) so that porting would be easy. So if this trend continues then the Xbox 360 would be the "default" hardware for multiplatform games. EA for example isn't going to design Madden to use 25 GB because they want to port it to every system imaginable so they'll go with 9 GB as the max.

BigJimMay 13, 2005

As mentioned in the other thread before it died, I think it's likely that actual game discs will still be proprietary in some way, like using some of the same methods from the Gamecube discs.

But I do wonder exactly how powerful the system is if it's light on power consumption, and so small. Top of the line graphic cards are monster heat machines. Perhaps they're borrowing tech from the portable line of cards... or maybe "low-powered" is just relative.

I also still wonder about the hybrid idea... a battery and display accessory seems even more probable.

FroMay 13, 2005

I think the big thing we're missing here is that the console is likely going to be portable to some extent. The very small size and low power usage is a dead giveaway. The console is going to be easy to carry around and probably half the size of a laptop.

A battery pack would be very small and would give the console a good 4-5 hours of life even with using wifi and DVDs.

What I'm imaging is the controllers having a headphone jack and a good-quality LCD screen that slides/flips out, and then using the wifi to stream the visuals/audio of the game to the controller.

You'd then have a portable media/gaming center. Take it in the car and play DVDs, mp3s, CDs. Play games. Plug it into an ethernet port or stick it near a wifi hub and you're online on your controller!

The PSP would be obsolete.

Why else would they skimp on power for size?

Bill AurionMay 13, 2005

Skimping on power for size? More like something called "efficiency"...

tForceMay 13, 2005

Ian...

Not true. Sega (at least in the case of the sports games) design for the stronger system first(XBox), and then take things out for the weaker one (PS2). Still, I don't see this being an issue for newer games.

I could see the extra room being used for uncompressed PNG textures. While this can lead to sharper graphics, it would also consume much more bandwidth. Plus, it wouldn't be that much of an improvement... as texture compression algorithms are so advanced already. Plus, anyone that's seen that 9kb DX9 demo program knows its entirely possible to make a VERY good looking game with practically no space taken.

I'm very curious as to what features the Revolution will have that seperates it from the Xbox360. Nintendo can't just meet Microsoft spec for spec, or even just try to feature a little more RAM or horsepower. It needs a STRONG gimmick... much like Microsoft had XBOX Live.

I find it funny that all the MS fanboys who deplored the Gamecube as looking like a kid's toy are wetting themselves over the XBox360. Frankly, that thing looks more kid-like than the GameCube... ESPECIALLY that controller. (what the hell is tiku tiku tiku! inserted for the k word? =p)

Ian SaneMay 13, 2005

"What I'm imaging is the controllers having a headphone jack and a good-quality LCD screen that slides/flips out"

The cost of that would be insane so I doubt they would do it. I do think however that Nintendo might make an LCD screen for the console itself as an accessory. We already know this think can attach to PC monitors. The idea might be "if there's a screen you can play Revolution". This is still too big to be a portable like the GBA or DS but it could make for something in between like the console equivalent of a laptop. It's still a console but it's small enough to bring to your friends house for LAN parties and with the optional screen you can take it anywhere.

Having the LCD as an accessory would be ideal because otherwise it would drive up the costs and people can choose to just use their own TV anyway. And since every game would automatically be playable with it the screen wouldn't have the install base problems that most accessories have.

"Bring your console anywhere" is pretty revolutionary and it fits the "not just tethered to a television" idea.

- NintendoFan -May 13, 2005

A bit off topic but were GameCube discs ever dual layered?

MarioAllStarMay 13, 2005

I like that screen idea. I really hope they implement that one. I'm glad they made it so it can easily hook up to a computer monitor. Not only does it mean you have more screens to play on, but most computer monitors are capable of HD video, so a school-going non-working kid like me can take advantage of the increased quality without having to replace my TV.

Edit: Gamecube discs were not dual layered.

jasonditzMay 13, 2005

Controller headphone jack is very doable, and sounds very cool to me.

I'm not so sure smaller size means less power. New manufacturing processes make for smaller chips -> less heat. A well-designed console could dissipate heat well and still be small. I honestly do not think Nintendo would make a weaker console just to make it more portable. It would be amusing to see a more powerful system half the size of an Xbox360, making the moderate-sized MS system another hugebox by comparison.

I would go along with the LCD peripheral speculation: small form factor + LCD screen + DVD playback = quality portable DVD player.

The most important thing is that it can play regular DVDs. Even though the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray mess looks to be sorted out soon, it'll be at least a year or two before that platform becomes mainstream. The first next-gen DVD players will probably come out sometime in 2006 and (as usual) they'll be expensive and lacking certain features, so people will wait until they get cheaper and acquire said features. By that time we'll be a year into the Revolution's life cycle.

The bottom line is that it's too early for anybody but Sony to make a bet on the final outcome of the next-gen DVD wars. Sony can do whatever it wants with PS3 because it's a partner in the creation of the DVD technology, so they have a vested interest in its adoption.

On a similar note, DVD capability itself isn't as important this time around. Don't get me wrong - Nintendo needs it in the console - but so many people have DVD players nowadays that the notion of getting a PS2 to use primarily as a DVD player is over with. It's not as much of a differentiator as it was with, say, GameCube vs. PS2. DVDs aren't "new" these days, so that extra incentive of being able to play movies on cool new media is no longer there.

I like the vertical/horizontal thing. That's pretty cool, and also ends the whining people had with GameCube about not being able to fit their console into a normal A/V unit.

It looks like Nintendo has really taken the criticism of the GameCube to heart, and has made some positive changes as a result.

And to whoever said that Revolution is virtually identical to XBox 360, they forgot the biggest difference: games. If Nintendo comes out with a rumored Halo-killer from Retro, all of a sudden the momentum shifts in Nintendo's direction in a major way.

Things are looking up face-icon-small-thumbsup.gif

Ian SaneMay 13, 2005

"small form factor + LCD screen + DVD playback = quality portable DVD player."

I didn't even think of that. One of the PS2's big selling points was that it was a DVD player when DVD players were generally considered a new thing. DVD playback won't sell consoles now but being a portable DVD player sure would. A portable DVD player would apply even to people who already own regular DVD players (or PS2s and Xboxes).

PaLaDiNMay 13, 2005

Oh crap... I just thought of the whole monitor connection thing.

Affordable HD gaming. face-icon-small-smile.gif

D'oh, seems MarioAllStars had that idea too. I'm slow.

tForceMay 13, 2005

Don't see the portable DVD thing happening. The cost alone is far too restrictive. Unless this comes in at a $399 price point, it just doesn't make much sense. Also... who said anything about DVD playback? Just because it supports the DVD media doesn't mean it can decode MPEG4. A vanilla Xbox didn't play movies, remember? Just playing devil's advocate here. Don't bet on the hard drive happening. I see a flash memory based solution, since the whole SD adaptor thing never worked out on the GameCube.

MarioAllStarMay 13, 2005

Of course we are speculating on DVD playback and the LCD screen, but with the news that has been confirmed, they are both more likely than before (especially DVD playback).

SaviorMay 13, 2005

Quote

Don't bet on the hard drive happening


Why not? Notebook PC HDs are slightly more expensive but could very well fit.....

Ian SaneMay 13, 2005

"who said anything about DVD playback?"

Perrin Kaplin from Nintendo did. Check out Nintendo.com. It says that it plays DVDs. And don't worry about the cost. I'm suggesting the screen as an accessory as in you don't have to buy it. It's just there for whoever wants it.

I just thought of something cool for E3. The Rev is backwards compatible so let's assume that you can connect a Cube controller to it. What if Nintendo's Cube demos on the show floor were Revolution prototypes playing Cube games with Cube controllers hooked up to them? That would be really cool and would attract a little more attention to the Cube at the show and because of the controller thing they wouldn't have to show off the "secret". Plus it would let reporters get a good look at the Rev from all angles. It's not essential but it would get people talking and would be a real treat for Nintendo fans.

PaLaDiNMay 13, 2005

You're assuming the prototypes have working GC compatibility already. I would think that would be last thing to be worked out.

"It says that it plays DVDs."

Games... movies are still in the air.

ThePermMay 13, 2005

hmm..what if it was portable but not in the sense that psp is porable..imagine if the screen and the controlelr are wireless then you could keep the rev in your backpack attach the screen to your controller and play it like that

Ian SaneMay 13, 2005

"Games... movies are still in the air."

It's in the first news post from the NY Times.

"Unlike GameCube, the new system will play DVD's, Ms. Kaplan said"

Oddly it doesn't specify that on Nintendo's web site.

BigJimMay 13, 2005

"Games... movies are still in the air."

The game discs will likely be proprietary since using a DVD format (which is strict in specification) would open them wide up for piracy. So movie playback is likely.

PaLaDiNMay 13, 2005

"Unlike GameCube, the new system will play DVD's, Ms. Kaplan said"

I know. They didn't specify that it would play DVD movies though. The word "movies" is missing. Technically if all it played was DVD9 games then it would still be playing DVDs.

puduMay 13, 2005

What many people aren't realising is that the whole reason of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are to allow for HD resolution FMV. Standard DVDs simply don't have the massive storage space needed to fit HD movies. DVD movies now commonly come on multiple disks as it is. How much HD quality video could then be fit in there...VERY little. Sure they could included multi-disk games but this costs more and is a bit annoying (I don't mind too much but some seem to).

Also worth mentioning is the difference in transfer rates. 1x DVD is about 11Mbps and 1x BD is about 54Mbps. I understand that the DVD drives in the next MS and Nintendo consoles will be far faster then 1x (and, thus, be able to stream HD video) but I bet Sony will also include a BD drive greater then 1x aswell. To equal the tranfer rate of just a 4x BD drive the DVD playres would need to be around 20x. I'm unsure how much this will affect load times but I imagine there will be a noticable difference.

BUT: Considering Nintendo is all about REALTIME cutscenes this wouldn't be as big a problem for them. The cutscenes would be in HD but without the need for all of the storage space. I, for one, prefer this approach. It really struck me as awsome first with LoOT and after playing RE4 it's all I really want.

Ian SaneMay 13, 2005

"I know. They didn't specify that it would play DVD movies though. The word "movies" is missing. Technically if all it played was DVD9 games then it would still be playing DVDs."

Dude you're thinking like, well, me. face-icon-small-wink.gif

It would pretty misleading to say "unlike the Cube" and then only be refering to the games. To phrase it like that and not mean movies would either be incredbily stupid or incredibly deceptive. The only Nintendo exec I would expect to be misleading like that would be Iwata.

tForceMay 13, 2005

I don't think it's necessarily misleading. The Cube didn't play DVDs, per se. It played a smaller sized disc, a mini-DVD if you will. Revolution will be using standard DVD9s. Regardless, if you don't have a DVD player by this point, you probably don't want one anyway... so the Revolution having DVD playback is rather moot.

The reason I don't see the hard drive happening is because it is not really used for much. The BEST feature is custom soundtracks, and that was rarely used on the Xbox. Why would you need 20GB on a game system? Are you going to install applications on it? Are you going to download porn? Seriously, you don't need that much space. A flash card would definitely be preferable to me, much like it's used on the PSP. It opens up a world of possibilities, such as easily sharing game saves, importing your own images into your games, etc.

As for hooking up a gamecube controller... I don't think so. More than likely, it'll be wireless much like the Xbox360. Plus, if Nintendo really does plan on reinventing the way we interface with games, it won't be possible to control Revolution games with the GameCube controller... so it'd be pointless to allow for backwards connectivity. I mean, you wouldn't use the NES controller to play SNES games, would you? After seeing how conservative MS was with it's new controller, I'm all the more curious about the new Revolution controller.

ShyGuyMay 13, 2005

I believe GTA San Andreas uses DVD9 too

Ian SaneMay 13, 2005

"As for hooking up a gamecube controller... I don't think so. More than likely, it'll be wireless much like the Xbox360. Plus, if Nintendo really does plan on reinventing the way we interface with games, it won't be possible to control Revolution games with the GameCube controller... so it'd be pointless to allow for backwards connectivity."

It is wireless but it will likely have cord slots so that you can charge your controller and play at the same time. So if they're doing that already then they might as well make those slots the same as the Cube's. It's not like you play Rev games with the Cube controller. It's just that you have the option to use a Cube controller to play Cube games on it. That's how it works on the PS2. One big advantage is that when you first buy a Rev odds are you won't buy four controllers right away. But if you can use Cube controllers then you don't have to buy Rev controllers to play old four player Cube games.

PaLaDiNMay 13, 2005

Yeah, tforce made the point I was about to make.

I figure since it's such a pointless feature at this point I can be a bitch about it. Sounding like you was just a coincidence. face-icon-small-smile.gif

No offense meant Ian... just poking harmless fun.

I'm trying to downplay whatever Rev news and magnify whatever X360 and PS3 news we get... that way I'll be happy with the actual Rev when it comes out and we can switch places again.

RickPowersRick Powers, Staff AlumnusMay 13, 2005

"Oh for God sake! Listen up! Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are one in the same now. Toshiba and Sony have combined both together and the final specs will be released within the next month."

This isn't true. Sony and Toshiba have been in talks, but the talks have broken down not once, but twice now. Currently they are at am impasse, and it doesn't appear that either side is willing to give in to the other.

As for playing DVD movies, Perrin's comment is ambiguous, but no person in the industry says that a console can "play DVDs" and is talking about GAMES. Anytime the phrase is used, they're talking about movies.

From a developer standpoint, games are code, and code is not played by a drive, it's READ. DVD movies, on the otherhand, while still code, are considered to be something that plays. It's all semantics, sure, but I don't think interpreting Perrin's statement to refer to playing DVD movies is that much of a stretch.

That said, Nintendo could very well stick to their "only games" philosophy, but that hurt them a bit the first time around.

StrellMay 13, 2005

My pants are exploding with joy. I will have to do laundry multiple times over the next week.

Sadly, like some people have said, "the Revolution will use DVDs" does *not* specify whether or not it will play movies. It is *only* a term towards the media used in the system. Which is really disappointing in the sense that it is misleading, but lots of PR/advertising personnel do it all the time (take a course about it in college, you'll be surprised how rampant it is. Case in point - Geico commercials. "Save up to 15% or more" pretty much gaurantees you nothing at all. Anyway...).

I am most interested the level of graphical power in the system, given it's small stature - it has been said it will eclipse the Xbox but less than the PS3, and given the system, it leaves towards portability. Could it possibly be that Nintendo is attempting to converge the portable and console platforms into one cohesive package? I highly doubt that, it would destroy the whole "third pillar" mentality, but the small form factor makes me incredbly anxious. I also admit I am very curious about backwards compatability, wireless features, and how previous controllers will work. I question if there will be *no* controller ports and if only Wavebirds will work, but then this would destroy using the drums, something I think Nintendo wants to continue to support.

5 days is too long.

Bill AurionMay 13, 2005

The article on Nintendo's site has been edited..."dual-layer DVD" has been removed and replaced...

Revolution will be backward compatible, playing both Nintendo GameCube 8cm disks along with its own 12cm optical disks in the same self-loading media drive.

Did NOA leak something too soon or was "dual-layer DVD" inaccurate?

PaLaDiNMay 13, 2005

Maybe it's because it was misleading.

NephilimMay 13, 2005

Great news
9gig is heaps, I just hope in 4-5years when Revolution is going out, That people arnt turning there head due to size problems, which has happened this generation.
Then again even the biggest PC games atm are only 1.1-1.5gig, there was no excuse.

FamicomMay 13, 2005

The biggest PC games are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-5gb actually. Far Cry and UT2004 are big blips on my drive.

RABicleMay 13, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers
It is the last statement that truly interests me, however. "Self-loading media drive" sounds a lot like a slot-loading drive, similar to the Apple Mac Mini and Powerbook. How could they do that with the smaller GameCube discs? I guess we'll find out in just a few days.

Since the topic hasn't been properly addessed yet; as an owner of a slot loading Apple iMac, I can confirm that mini CDs not only go into the machine but also come out. I tried it out once when I was bored. So for those who were curious or fearful, it works.

rholderMay 13, 2005

Let me make a point about people 'not needing' DVD playback anymore...

I also never understood the fascination with PS2/Xbox DVD playback. I had a DVD player, didn't need it. However, I finally got an Xbox on top of my cube and that allowed me to put my DVD player in my bedroom and Xbox on my entertainment setup in my living room. May not be as universal or greatest quality, but it gave me Options. Its been said before, 'whoopdey do, who cares...Lots of consumers do. Look at it how you may, but DVD playback wll garner more attention than you may think.

**giddy with excitement...this will be one hell of a week**

nickmitchMay 13, 2005

I'm just glad that I have final exams to tie me over all E3.
I will soon find out which is more important to me: Nintendo and the Rev. or making retention.

Well enough with my personal problems I just wanted to say thatt six times the space is more than enough for next generation. I'm really eager to see how (good) games use the extra space. I imagine Namco will have some RPGs to ake advantage. And now a complete mario (or Zelda) anthology with ALL the games on one disk is slightly more likely.

Ian SaneMay 13, 2005

"Revolution will be backward compatible, playing both Nintendo GameCube 8cm disks along with its own 12cm optical disks in the same self-loading media drive."

If this DVD stuff is a misquote or something I'm going to stop being so cheery. I can live without DVD support but don't TELL me it has it and then "take it away". Right now I've got this feeling that Nintendo is changing and they're addressing all the complaints with the Cube. If the Rev doesn't play DVDs it's going to really ruin this feeling.

Come on Nintendo. You're doing perfect so far. Don't start f*cking up stuff now.

jasonditzMay 13, 2005

It seems like most of the "complaints with the Cube" are that its not a PS2.

I can't see how anyone who bought a Cube could possibly be disappointed with what they got.

bananaboyMay 13, 2005

It's true, most do just want it to be an Xbox or a PS2. me im happy with my cube, i love it to bits. yes it has flaws, but so do the ps2 and xbox.

Im glad to see Nintendo is actually taking notice of this and making an attempt to change. I just hope the changes on the site dont mean DVD9 is gone.

BlackNMild2k1May 13, 2005

I think that they are gonna go with a custom version of HD-DVD or Blu-ray so that they get higher capacity but still have standard DVD playback, but thats just a guess, anfd I have no idea what I'm talking about.

And why do they keep re-wording the same prases over and over again? That has to be about the 3rd or 4th time now, right?

DrydenMay 13, 2005

So, X-Box is going with Dual Layer DVD for easy in use / low cost...
Nintendy is going with "12 cm optical disks" to fight piracy (again)...
And Sony... well, Sony loves their Blu-Ray, but without a clear win in the Toshiba / Sony fight, that's a tough call to make. Considering that the PS3 was announced to be Blu-Ray last year, I don't really expect that report to hold water come E3.

Nintendo makes a lot of money making other companies pay for their techology (as opposed to DVD technology), but they're not making friends in third-party developers doing it. I hope they've got something amazing to offer developers, or the Revolution is never going to get to enough homes.

**crosses fingers for Stereoscopic 3-D Projection**

JBMay 13, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Nintendo goes on to off-handedly mention quick start-up times, quiet and low-power operation, and of course, wireless internet included."

face-icon-small-thumbsup.gif

(And I SERIOUSLY doubt Ninty would ever consider going with a competitor's media...That's absurd...)


Actually Nintendo is already doing that by going with the DVD-format. Sony is one of the companies that started the DVD-format, just like with the Blue-ray format.

According to your logic, Nintendo would still be using cartridge based technology for the GameCube, because Sony has played an important role in the invention of nearly all of the important optical disc formats available at the time the GameCube was released.

Nile BoogieMay 13, 2005

I would say that nintendo will use a it's own Disc Format that is "also" capeable of playing standard DvD/9s. Just like DreamCast played their own format, GD-Rom and played standard CD's. I expect said dual-layered disc-drive to hold up to 16.5gb's and be based on the original HD-DvD format. Then they get the best of both worlds.

steveyMay 14, 2005

So it can play dvds and cube disk. he not saying that it using dvd for the formate for game it sill can be hddvds. "self-loading media drive" dosen't mean there a slot you put disk in it could be a pop out drive like xbox's.

KDR_11kMay 14, 2005

NoE claims the "Revolution Discs" are DVD9s. I tend to think they're left out on all the news again and trying to make sense of what the guys higher up on the chain say.

Personally I doubt that Nintendo would use standard media for games. There's no point in that except to make piracy trivially easy. I'd go for 13cm discs that are read from the outside in. Try ripping THAT.

kirby_killer_dededeMay 14, 2005

The length of a DVD case? That's almost too small to be sleek, imo...not sayign that the Xbox 360 looked good, because it didn't, but I think for a vertical system those are about the proper dimensions...smaller isn't always better.

I think what the replacement in the article is basically saying is that it will play DVD9s (movie playback), but for games 12cm optical disks will be used.

RickPowersRick Powers, Staff AlumnusMay 14, 2005

My guess is that Nintendo changed the language because they are not "standard" discs. It's also possible that DVD Movie playback won't be possible, so they want to remove all references to "DVD" in order to stop any additional confusion. It's a shame, really.

RennyMay 14, 2005

The only benefit I see in including DVD video playback is the message it sends to the public, or at least Ian; that they've listened and are prepared to change. But at $20 per system (have they lowered this at all in 2 years?) it's a costly message. If they're trying to create a graphicall/aurally powerful system at a competitive price, that $20 will either eat into their budget or encourage an increased launch price. It's possible that they could sell DVD playback as an accessory à la the $30 OEM remote for the Xbox, but that would just encourage a negative reaction towards old, stingy Nintendo.

Cue fan outrage: "LOL, we need liek 4 DS'es to play movies."

Cue PA comic: "Shut up, f*ckwits."

DVD video playback is irrelevant now but for a few negative Nellies* who'll hold a grudge to the end.

ArbokMay 14, 2005

The odd thing, is that I'm dissapointed that it sounds like now that the Revolution will not play DVD movies... despite the fact that I would never use the feature, and if it means a lower price I would much rather do without.

*shrugs* At this point I'm willing to wait and see.

FroMay 14, 2005

Pretty sure they want people realizing it's not going to be just a dual-layer DVD format, although that's playable.

They're not going to announce to the New York Times that it plays DVDs. The tweak to the website opens the door for HD-DVD to be supported also or another format.

anubis6789May 14, 2005

If it doesn't play DVD videos I won't be too upset, I'm just happy that they are using a standard sized disc, even if it isn't really standard. I would rather Nintendo protect themselves from piracy then being able to watch DVDs on a console that will sit right next to a dedicated DVD player.

On another subject, I do hope that Nintendo will put 4 gcn controller ports on the system as well as have 2 GCN memory card slots for complete backwards compatibility. I also hope that I can play PSO and LAN games through the wifi setup.

Man, the wait for this E3 is killing me, more so then any other E3 before.

OptimusPrimeMay 14, 2005

How to make a anti-priacy DVD9...well one you could switch the layers and indeed make the reading going from outsde to in. Probably the layer switching is enough to keep hackers busy awhile

SaviorMay 14, 2005

Quote

On another subject, I do hope that Nintendo will put 4 gcn controller ports on the system as well as have 2 GCN memory card slots for complete backwards compatibility. I also hope that I can play PSO and LAN games through the wifi setup.



Thats kind of my concern as well... If its so tiny AND Backwards compatible? can it all fit?

Grant10kMay 14, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: Savior
Quote

On another subject, I do hope that Nintendo will put 4 gcn controller ports on the system as well as have 2 GCN memory card slots for complete backwards compatibility. I also hope that I can play PSO and LAN games through the wifi setup.



Thats kind of my concern as well... If its so tiny AND Backwards compatible? can it all fit?


well, they'd have to have at least one memory card slot, and worse case senario, it would only accept wavebird controllers, but GC controller ports arn't all that big, so i don't think there will be a problem.

PaLaDiNMay 14, 2005

I'm not going to say "I told you so" or anything, but Nintendo never did promise DVD movie playback.

I'm just happy they took off the misleading quote before people took it for granted and started a long whiny bitchfest once it was revealed to be a misquote.

jasonditzMay 14, 2005

they could always have an external hub or something for the controllers.

BlackNMild2k1May 14, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: Grant10k
Quote

Originally posted by: Savior
Quote

On another subject, I do hope that Nintendo will put 4 gcn controller ports on the system as well as have 2 GCN memory card slots for complete backwards compatibility. I also hope that I can play PSO and LAN games through the wifi setup.

Thats kind of my concern as well... If its so tiny AND Backwards compatible? can it all fit?

well, they'd have to have at least one memory card slot, and worse case senario, it would only accept wavebird controllers, but GC controller ports arn't all that big, so i don't think there will be a problem.

What if they had a wireless multitap 'wave-tap' that you plug conrollers into and the multi-tap just pretends each contoller is a wave-bird, and communicates with the system.
The system sounds way too small to have 4 contoller ports anywhere on it, I like this idea alot better.

RickPowersRick Powers, Staff AlumnusMay 14, 2005

"What if they had a wireless multitap 'wave-tap' that you plug conrollers into and the multi-tap just pretends each contoller is a wave-bird, and communicates with the system.
The system sounds way too small to have 4 contoller ports anywhere on it, I like this idea alot better."

Sigh ... the Revolution controllers will be backwards compatible as well. You'll use them to play GameCube games. No controller ports are necessary.

As for the memory cards, they might keep the same format, and just move up to larger sizes (like the PS2 did), or they might go with a completely new format, or you'll store them on internal storage. So you might have to start your games over (unless you have a USB card reader), but the games themselves will be compatible, as promised.

Wait, did I say something about internal storage? Scratch that.

ArbokMay 14, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers
Wait, did I say something about internal storage? Scratch that.


I'm quoting that just in case it vanishes face-icon-small-tongue.gifYou know it could vanish from this post too, if we actually cared. -Bloodworth Anyway, I hope there is some way to transfer my data off my old card, which is a 3rd party interact 16xx one (hasn't failed me yet). The data I'm mostly interested in getting off there is Super Smash Bros. Melee, to be honest.

EDIT: I was hoping that fact would be overlooked Bloodworth. face-icon-small-wink.gif

ThePermMay 14, 2005

from what i gather based on my lingual observations
Rev will have its own proprietary media(similar to hd-dvd)
will play dvds(as in movies)
and will be backwards compatable with gcn disks.

The controllers will be wireless, maybe wavebirds will connect..possibly you can switch channels in software.....that way you just turn the knob on your wavebird..and then theres no need for a knob on the system because its in the ui.

BiLdItUp1May 14, 2005

Hmm...I dunno what to make of this language change, but Nintendo would be frankly stupid not to include DVD playback this time around, just because of the whole image problem. I think they've wisened up enough to realize that.

Only three more days...

BTW

Quote

GameCube's GD-ROM discs are based on DVD technology


I know this is gonna sound, but weren't GD-ROMs what the Dreamcast used, and G.O.D.s what the GC used?

PaLaDiNMay 14, 2005

"Sigh ... the Revolution controllers will be backwards compatible as well. You'll use them to play GameCube games. No controller ports are necessary."

face-icon-small-smile.gif

RickPowersRick Powers, Staff AlumnusMay 14, 2005

Think about it, people. Part of what makes a piece of electronics big is because of the ports you put on it. Standard ports need to be a standard size, the best electronics (and smallest) are the ones that find a way to work without needing extra ports. The reason the GBA SP omitted the headphone jack was to shave off a few millimeters.

Without needing controller ports, ethernet ports, memory card ports (perhaps), including slot-loading DVD instead of a tray ... suddenly, you can make a very small machine.

Nintendo's Director of Public Relations says that this is the smallest console they've ever made.

ArtimusMay 14, 2005

Rick is right.

Rick, you think they'd include a harddrive to eliminate the memory cards? Harddrives can be pretty tiny, certainly not any bigger than two memory card ports, if not smaller.

Instead of a hard drive we may something like an SD card in the Revolution.

PaLaDiNMay 14, 2005

Not this vaporware again.

anubis6789May 14, 2005

The reason I want controller ports are for two reasons, bongos and the GBA, without the contoller ports I see no way in those two things working. The memory card slots I want for two other reasons, so that I can still use my old saves and for the MP6 microphone, because they said that that will be used for future games.

I would also like to be able for PSO, which I do play online, to be able to go through the wifi however it goes through the broadband router. Same I guess for LAN games too, even if there are not many of them. It will be a lot easier to setup MKDD lan partys when you can hook up the Rev to a VGA monitor.

I don't think these things are to much to ask, and maybe there will be a work around that we are unaware of and I have no reason to worry.

*EDIT: Cleaned up some grammar and added blurb about LAN.*

RickPowersRick Powers, Staff AlumnusMay 14, 2005

Laptop hard drives are pretty small ...

ThePermMay 14, 2005

i have taken apart a gamecube before..and while the ports dont look big..the chip that holds the ports is about a half(sideways) a dvd case and 1.5 dvd cases in thickness.

Ian SaneMay 14, 2005

"Sigh ... the Revolution controllers will be backwards compatible as well."

So you're confirming that Nintendo didn't complete wang the controllers with their new idea? That's good to know. That means they kept a d-pad on their too. They have to or stuff like Metroid Prime won't work.

Still I would like to be able to use Cube controllers because I won't buy four Rev controllers right away. Because of backwards compatibility I can put my Cube in storage. But if friends come over and want to play SSBM I can just use the Cube controllers for multiplayer instead of having to reconnect the Cube or buy extra Rev controllers. If I can't to that it's not that big of a deal but it would be a nice feature. And the PS2 can do it so it would be feature matching.

jasonditzMay 14, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers
Laptop hard drives are pretty small ...


Indeed, a fully loaded Macmini manages to incorporate most everything the Revolution needs in a similar form factor.

jasonditzMay 14, 2005

Its also possible the "backwards compatibility" isn't all its cracked up to be. Kind of like how the DS offers GBA compatibility, but it won't play GBC/GB games like a real GBA, doesn't offer connectivity to the Cube, and doesn't support multiplayer.

KDR_11kMay 14, 2005

Laptop drives are gigantic next to a 2.2GB harddrive that fits into a CF slot. A CF card is as large as a GC memcard but only as high as a DS card. They go for 100 bucks at retail but I doubt they are that expensive to make, especially in sufficiently large numbers.

- NintendoFan -May 15, 2005

A DS card can only hold 1 Gigabit right now, which is ~ 128MegaBYTES. 8 bits in 1 byte.

Nile BoogieMay 15, 2005

About the Rev. DiscFormat/ Size: Based of HD-DvD 15.Gig. Let us not forget that the GameCube disc are the basis on which HD-DvD's codec/software is looely based, so making the new system backwards compatible as well as DvD movie enabled wont be that hard. This isn't new info either I think we all just forgot about that( I thought Nintendo help fund the students/firm who designed the software for Toshiba/Mitsutashi's HD-DvD)

About the Memory card: Expect the card to be the same size and format as the Ds gigabit card. Why? Have not the slightest idea but thats what I have foreseen. I bet a cold drink that I'm right on both fronts.!!!

jasonditzMay 15, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: Nile Boogie

About the Memory card: Expect the card to be the same size and format as the Ds gigabit card. Why? Have not the slightest idea but thats what I have foreseen. I bet a cold drink that I'm right on both fronts.!!!


That's a very cool idea. Maybe for instance a Metroid game could unlock Super Metroid for the DS as a playable bonus if you beat it with 100%, then you could just plug the card in directly.




PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorMay 15, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: jasonditz
Quote

Originally posted by: Nile Boogie

About the Memory card: Expect the card to be the same size and format as the Ds gigabit card. Why? Have not the slightest idea but thats what I have foreseen. I bet a cold drink that I'm right on both fronts.!!!


That's a very cool idea. Maybe for instance a Metroid game could unlock Super Metroid for the DS as a playable bonus if you beat it with 100%, then you could just plug the card in directly.


Or just download it wirelessly... face-icon-small-wink.gif

jasonditzMay 15, 2005

Yeah, but then you lose it when it powers down. I like the idea of the writable DS card that can store a whole bunch of minigames on it.

jasonditzMay 15, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: BiLdItUp1

I know this is gonna sound, but weren't GD-ROMs what the Dreamcast used, and G.O.D.s what the GC used?


You're right, I've got a stack of GD-R's in the corner... they're the Dreamcast's discs

I think it stands for "God Damned ROMs"

Bill AurionMay 15, 2005

Nintendo's new console, code-named Revolution, will be a sleek box about as big as a stack of three DVD containers, said Reggie Fils-Aime, executive vice president of sales and marketing for Nintendo of America.

Revolution will play DVDs as well as older GameCube games, and a range of color options are being explored, he said.

"It's the most industrial design we have ever done," Fils-Aime said.


The second time the DVD thing has been brought up...

Source

MarioMay 15, 2005

Damn, and I just bought a DVD Player, what a waste of money. face-icon-small-tongue.gif

couchmonkeyMay 16, 2005

Man, all this DVD nonsense is annoying. With E3 nearly here I guess it doesn't matter, but a press release to explain exactly what the system will do/use would be nice. One big problem with any news you get from the mainstream media is that it has been edited by someone who may not even understand what he's reading. Unless you're reading a direct quote there's a good chance the news outlet screwed the message up during transmission. Even if it's a direct quote, who knows?

My dream: a proprietary disc format that is still comparable in size and price to DVD9, and DVD playback. I agree with those who say it's not as important as last generation, but I disagree with claims that it doesn't matter at all. Some GameCube-only owners like myself would be interested in DVD playback in their next console, and people who plan to sell or pack their old consoles may be looking for it too.

Myxtika1 AznMay 16, 2005

Why would people want DVD playback on their consoles at all? Even if the video quality is comparable to stand-alone players, using the console for both games and movies would just cause your system to die faster. That constant spinning for hours upon hours cannot be good for the motor.

Wasn't DVD playback one of the main reasons that ps2's break down so often. I think it was in an EGM's Buyer Beware section that I read that playing movies on the ps2 would cut its life-span down by half.

I wonder how many people would complain that their next-gen console broke down because they use it to watch movies.

Ian SaneMay 16, 2005

"Why would people want DVD playback on their consoles at all? Even if the video quality is comparable to stand-alone players, using the console for both games and movies would just cause your system to die faster. That constant spinning for hours upon hours cannot be good for the motor."

It doesn't have to logically make sense. The important thing is that the PS3 and Xbox 360 will have it so the Rev has to match it or it will be seen as inferior. There have been numerous times where I've been in a store as someone was choosing to buy a new console and the second they found at that the Cube doesn't play DVDs (or was missing some other feature both competitors have) they immediately wrote it off. If DVD playback halfs a console's life just don't use it. Missing features can cost sales.

I don't want it. I don't need it. But I'm sick of Nintendo screwing themselves over by deciding what's best for everyone and not providing options. Don't think of it as DVD playback. Think of it as a little bit more market share to help us get more games.

RickPowersRick Powers, Staff AlumnusMay 16, 2005

FWIW, Gamasutra is reporting that the machine will play DVDs (assumedly movies), as well as the GameCube 8cm discs, and Revolution 12cm discs. Again, in the industry "play DVDs" always refers to movies. face-icon-small-wink.gif

Nile BoogieMay 16, 2005

My math is the yankees(which means it sucks) so is 12cm the same size as standard DVD's(5inch)?

ArbokMay 16, 2005

"5 inches is equal to 12.70 centimeters"

http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/length.php

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorMay 16, 2005

O NOOES! Nintendo is using a miniature disc format again!

BlackNMild2k1May 16, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers
"What if they had a wireless multitap 'wave-tap' that you plug conrollers into and the multi-tap just pretends each contoller is a wave-bird, and communicates with the system.
The system sounds way too small to have 4 contoller ports anywhere on it, I like this idea alot better."

Sigh ... the Revolution controllers will be backwards compatible as well. You'll use them to play GameCube games. No controller ports are necessary.

What about accessories? what about the bongos or the upcoming dance pad? they gotta come out with some kind of wireless tech to allow you to use those attachment. and when that happens you should aslo be able to hook up you old controllers for some instant multiplayer w/o having to spring for all new controllers right away.
I still think its a good idea.

TalonMay 17, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
What about accessories? what about the bongos or the upcoming dance pad? they gotta come out with some kind of wireless tech to allow you to use those attachment.


All the wireless technology really does is tell the console which buttons were pressed, the technology for the accessories would be the same as the revolutions controller just its physical layout is different. No biggie really

BlackNMild2k1May 17, 2005

you wanna re-buy your accessories or just buy a wireless muti tap to connect them to?

I think the latter sounds alot cheaper, don't you?

JBMay 17, 2005

Actually at the press-conference an image was shown in the background of four controller ports on the front of the Revolution. They are located behind a small door on the unit.

EDIT: Here it is. It is the image on the background, you can clearly see four GameCube controller ports(plus a few ports which are difficult to see).

anubis6789May 17, 2005

Yippee! I am now completly sold on the Revolution.

JBMay 17, 2005

Quote

Originally posted by: JB
Actually at the press-conference an image was shown in the background of four controller ports on the front of the Revolution. They are located behind a small door on the unit.

EDIT: Here it is. It is the image on the background, you can clearly see four GameCube controller ports(plus a few ports which are difficult to see).


Whoops, my bad. There are no controller ports on the front of the Revolution, they are on the side/top of the console. IGN has a photograph of it.

BloodworthDaniel Bloodworth, Staff AlumnusMay 18, 2005
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