Topic: Nintendo DS Game Ideas

[KDR_11k]

I think Ian's idea is possible even with that limitation, just make the game 60FPS and alternate between rendering screen 1 and 2.

[Bloodworth]

Well, even though it was limited, Pac n Roll had 3D on both screens, so yeah, it definitely can be done.

[WuTangTurtle]

I just hope to god there is a good amount of games for its launch.

By the way seeing how SquareEnix is able to get games to GBA and DS does that mean RARE could make games for DS?  If so i would love to see conker again.  Or even better a straight port of Perfect Dark from N64 with added touch screen ability such as in Metroid Prime: Hunters!

[Bill Aurion]

Rare has two DS games in the works... ^_^

[WuTangTurtle]

u hear some news i didnt?  got a link?  ah u got me so gitty!!!!

[ThePerm]

well all one would have to do is tell the arm 7 to stream the 3d imageoff the arm 9...have the arm 9 process both screens and then tell the arm 7 to display the second screen...it can be done...no problem.

[joeamis]

Rare on DS

[WuTangTurtle]

WoW

[Ian Sane]

Sorry to revive a crusty old thread but I didn't feel like starting a new thread and what I'm posting is relevant to the discussion regarding 3D screens.  According to IGN's mailbag devs have confirmed that the system is hard-wired to only allow 3D in one screen at a time.  Apparently there's ways around it but the limitation is there nonetheless.

I think that just f*cking sucks.  Obviously when Nintendo designed this thing they never once though of an idea that could use dual 3D screens.  That suggests to me that they don't really have any good ideas for the second screen beyond maps and other lame sh!t.  I expect much better from them and I'm worried that although they have a great concept in the DS, they're never going to use it in any way beyond mere gimmickry.  In other words it's connectivity all over again.

[Darc Requiem]

Calm down Ian, I read the same thing. DS games will have 3D on both screens though. Look at what developers are able to do with the 16mhz ARM7 in the GBA. The DS' version of the ARM7 reportedly runs at 33mhz. What does that mean? Well the best of the DS games will probably have PS1 quality visuals on one screen and N64ish style 3D on the other. I mean Need For Speed Underground for GBA looks near PS1 quality. So while I was intially disheartened, when it thought about what the GBA was capable of with an inferior version of the DS' co-processor it brought a smile to my face.

Darc Requiem

[Ian Sane]

"DS games will have 3D on both screens though."

I know.  But first party games likely won't since Nintendo wouldn't implement a limitation they plan on breaking.  And if the first party games don't make good use of the second screen it's unlikely that many third party games would either.

[Edisim]

well, if this all is true about the 3d on one screen, then it's just another example of nintendo trying to force developers to think about certain things more... like when they designed the controller for gcn with limited buttons to force developers to think about controls schemes and implement more intuitive controls. nintendo probably is worried that developers will try too hard and waste too much development time trying to crank out good true 3d graphics on both screens and getting a good framerate rather than putting their time towards more interesting things, like gameplay ideas and controls. i don't agree with nintendo on this one but what can you do, right?

[Blackknight131]

Personally I have a "don't knock em till they've delivered the games" kinda mindset. Then, we will be able to look and judge just what the DS can bring to our gameplaying experiences...

Thats an excellent point about the ARM-7 tho. I just found out that they indeed brought the clock up to 33 MHz (PSOne speed I spose) so maybe that will help. The thing is, what allows the nice 3-D graphics is prolly the 3-D processer itself, I *think* seperate from the Super ARM-io Bros. (thats ARM-7 and ARM-9 to you)

But anyways, yeah, dont get so caught up over 3-D hardware issues...unless Nintendo ultimately fails to deliver on their new gaming paradigm (what y'all think of "Paradigm" as the new name of the DS?) lets give them the benefit of the doubt. I still maintain that every good DS game need not utilize all the hardware features in a prominent role: inspired games need not be designed around the clever use of two screens or touch, etc. Rather, those things could roll naturally into a game design to augment and enhance whats already there...like how to make RPGs/Strategy easier to interact with and more involving to play. Thats one way of thinking about it anyway.

Good developers given time and creative freedom can crank out fun and technically excellent games on this hardware. I just hope the DS's unique abilities are motivation enough for them to do so...

Oh, hey, on another note. So a friend tells me about some new cell phone technology he saw at Qualcomm while there for an interview. He says the LCDs in those new units are beautiful and that the phones sport ARM processors (he mentioned an ARM9 and an ARM11) and an ATi special lil' graphics chip. For what? Impressive 3-D on the cell phones lil screen apparently...Square was talking to them about help in using this cell phone hardware to come up with impressive demo movies of the technology....just thought that was really interesting. A cell phone, hah!

-Blackknight131

[Bloodworth]

er... Pac n Roll had 3D on two screens...  I don't think "3D" is the limitation, I think it's more of a matter of which processor being used.  I mean, think about it, how could Nintendo intentionally prevent 3D on both anyways?

[Ian Sane]

"then it's just another example of nintendo trying to force developers to think about certain things more... like when they designed the controller for gcn with limited buttons to force developers to think about controls schemes and implement more intuitive controls."

Oh yeah and the controller thing just worked SUPER.  Forcing developers to think just results in crappier games from lazy developers.  Giving them the option to be creative is great but forcing them is stupid.  You could also argue that the smaller memory cards were to force devs to be conservative about space and instead we got sports games that use an entire card.  Oooops.

[Shecky]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
er... Pac n Roll had 3D on two screens...  I don't think "3D" is the limitation, I think it's more of a matter of which processor being used.  I mean, think about it, how could Nintendo intentionally prevent 3D on both anyways?

I agree with Bloodworth 100%

The DS sceen/processor combo is well thought out.  The sheer fact that either processor can control either screen shows good forsight IMO.

One of the main reasons I commented on Ian's thought way back when about two graphically intense 3D FPS views - was to state that there was only one ARM 9.  (And a few board memebers help clarify the point - as I was less than clear)

If DOOM for the GBA is the FPS your looking for then it can be done on both screens.
If Metroid Hunters is the FPS your looking for then I don't think it can be done on both screens IMO.  At least not yet.

However, what if a button in Mario Kart switched from a map to a rear view mirror? ... I'll argue that it could be done with the ARM 7 processor and still be "3D" b/c there are plenty of "3D" racers for the GBA.

[reverend_tod]

Nintendo's button layout was perfect for SNES, four buttons two shoulders and directional.  What does the DS sport again