Topic: Sony may lose steam challenging Nintendo here!!!

[areefer]

I can't wait till ds crushes psp so we can see what impact the "image" of seeing sony fail will have on mainstream gamers!!!

[Shift Key]

Battery life should be something that Nintendo promotes - and throw in a recharge kit with the DS to add fuel.
Sony were saying two-to-six hours of gaming on the PSP! I'd then say it would be more like two-to-four because Sony isn't going to say something bad about their system. And that's absolutely horrible. It'll probably run out of power during a FF FMV, which would make me throw it out a window or at someone.

Its because of the moving parts the UMD has (basically its a mini-DVD drive with disc in a self-contained unit) where Nintendo still has the CARTRIDGEZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! And I say hooray to that, because its a good choice for a portable gaming system, not an all-in-one portable multimedia unit.

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Though one thought, if the DS is backwards compatible, can it be used as a controller for GC games?

I don't think so, because the SP/GBA had the connection for the link cable which the DS does not need (WIRELESS ^_^) so don't throw your SP out yet

[jasonditz]

hmm... if the DS doesn't have a GBA link port doesn't that seriously hamper backwards compatiblity?

I mean, this isn't like when the GBA didn't have an IR port for the couple GBC games that needed one, the GBA link cable is integral to a lot of games.

[areefer]

I was just searching around around google for ds info and translated a japenese site with info about pictochat, it will be sold seperate at or very close to launch with the modest price of around 20 u.s. dollars and it will allow players to write and send pics back and forth but it doesn't say anything bout voice chat so I'm wondering if that'll be capable out the box once you connect with another ds user?

[Bill Aurion]

Pictochat may be included with the DS, and I have a feeling it will...Voice recognition would also be obviously built into the system to work with compatable games...

[Bloodworth]

areefer, no matter how much searching you do, you're not going to find info on business decisions that haven't been made yet.  There is absolutely no information on pricing or specific release dates on any of the DS stuff.

I did make a point to suggest that PictoChat needs to be bundled with the system because it's something a lot of people would use if they had it, but not a lot of people would likely buy.  

[KDR_11k]

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Originally posted by: areefer
Let me break down what will go through the average consumers mind when looking at the psp and ds side by side:

psp-more expensive than ds
ds-a little more expensive than past gameboys but within my budget
psp-looks nice and has a nice screen but I got to buy a protective case or I'm going to scratch it up
ds-looks nice and has TWO (wow one of em is a touch screen) screens but it opens and closes so I can just close it to protect the screen
psp-has wireless connectivity between systems as well as wi-fi
ds-has wireless connectivity plus wi-fi as well
psp-sony's first portable system
ds-this is like Nintendo's 5th gameboy and they just keep getting better and better so this one must be great
psp-uses disc which means I'll definitely need a carrying case when I'm on the go to protect those disc
ds-uses cards which won't get scratched from being in my pocket
psp-"looking at psp games" well let me look at the ds games
ds-"looking at ds games"  has more games PLUS it's compatible with gba games too
psp-I don't see why I would pay more for this plus shell out extra for a case
ds-I can get a ds plus a couple games and I don't need batteries

You're too optimistic about that. The average consumer sees the screen of the PSP and al they think is "Oooh, Shiny! Gimme!". Really, "average consumers" don't inform themselves.

[areefer]

Well without an "official" statement nothing is never considered fact to all but alot of rumours are true just like alot are false but it's not like the price and release of pictochat is the biggest secret in the world so I believe it could be pretty close to point.

The point of this thread of course is that sony is the doomed and the two things that lead them to dominance in the living room (who waits a year and a half to release a system that was already 6 months late) are NOT going to happen here. Please open eyes people and realize that Nintendo has been around all these years because they're leaders and not followers and the one time they didn't lead sony took the living room from them, now if Nintendo were to spot psp a year and a half lead before introducing ds I would be singing a different tune but we all know that ain't happening!!!

[areefer]

I'm impartial really just calling it like I see it because while anyone can dispute me I also think you can find many of the reasons I favor the ds will be the way most past gamboy purchasers feel plus a good percent of the new blood.

Look at it like this, Nintendo controls 95 % of the market in comes ds and let's just say only 80% jump on the ds ship and they pick up an additional 10% from newbies, now that's 90% still even with them losing 15% of their userbase (which ain't a small usebase) so sony picks up 5% of the market at best so whether or not that 5% will grow is the real question everyone should be asking imo.

It's almost as if people actually expect the millions of gameboy'ers out there to just say "Screw the ds I'm going with psp even though it'll cost me more and I'm not sure what to expect". THAT'S FUNNY!!!

By my above statement I'm just assuming they will lose 15% of their current players could be more, but what if it's LESS, (I don't know too many un-happy gba-sp owners myself) and the percentage of newbies could be different also but one things for sure most will stick with em and some new blood will make ds their first handheld.

 

[Koopa Troopa]

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umm.. Square Enix and Koei are making games for it. That got my attention. I mean what was the last Koei developed Nintendo title?

Hm, Inindo for SNES is the last decent game I remember... Koei did throw that piece of crap "Mystic Heros" at the GameCube.  

[jasonditz]

I still don't understand why Koei doesn't target the GBA. It seems a natural for a port of Romance of the Three Kingdoms 3 or Genghis Khan 2. I'd be all over those two even if they were direct SNES translations.

[areefer]

Expect koei as well as all rpg heavy devs to make good use of the ds cause I can't count the number of times I have wished for controller with lcd display for me to be able to virtual have health, potions, spells, etc. at my fingertips in realtime during gameplay because it takes away greatly from the experience when in the heat of battle you must pause the game and siphon through maps, inventory, group stats, etc.  

[joeamis]

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Originally posted by: Luigi

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Originally posted by: joeamis
Nintendo having 3 systems out at the same time isn't a big advantage.  It's a slim advantage and could actually work against them.  Supporting 2 different systems is harder than supporting 1 with quality games.  Therefor the PSP could gain alot more better titles since they only have to worry about 1 system.

 
I don't follow.  Sony has to support 2 systems as well.

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The PSP can also play music and movies, and as we saw with the PS2 this is what originally drove its sales.

Actually, this won't work quite the same as it did for the PS2.  There were tons of PS1 games out and DVD was a common medium. While it can play music and movies, its all proprietary and requires new purchases.

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Finally the PSP can hold a helluva lot more memory for games than the DS (like comparing N64 to PS1 memory for games).  That is a major advantage as we saw how it played out with the N64 and how developers clearly preferred disc medium, especially Square.  If you don't believe me just think of this, the DS is due out this year and has 100 developers lined up, the PSP isn't due out until Q2 2005 and it already has 99 developers signed on.

But remember the PSP was originally slated for Xmas release as well, so their isn't any real head start here.  On the whole, I agree with you.  I think they both will be successful.  But I doubt either will even approach GBA sales.

Well now you're bringing the home consoles into the mix lol, we were talking strictly about supporting handheld systems.  If you bring home consoles into it well then Nintendo has to support 3 systems (ala 3rd pillar).  You do make a good point about it being proprietary, but dvd movie players were not a big fad in Japan and the PS2 originally sold because it changed that.  The head start I speak of is outside of Japan, it's alot easier to get development kits out to companies in Japan early on compared to the rest of the world.

[joeamis]

areefer not everyone looks at why they're going to buy a new portable the way you do.  I don't understand why you keep saying the PSP is much more expensive when noone has mentioned anything about how much the units will cost so please stop using that every time you defend the DS.  People are not going to base the decision of which console they buy based on if the screen could get scratched.  I've owned gameboy, gameboy pocket, gameboy color, game gear, virtual boy, and gameboy advance and I've never had a problem with the screens getting scratched and none of them had a flip up protector for them.  I also didn't protect them very well.  Your other points like I don't need batteries with the DS doesn't make sense to me.  Both systems include rechargeable batteries...   Having to buy a disc holder for PSP games isn't a big problem, you will be able to pick up cheap ones for like 5 bucks big deal.  I'd rather know my games are in a holder so I don't lose those tiny DS cards or the small stylus.

[areefer]

well my 20 years of gamning have taught me two things:

1-Gamers like familiarity and there are millions of gamers quite familiair with Nintendo handhelds

2-If it cost more it's got do more without me having to shell out to much money to get it's full potential

Now you can talk all day about what the psp can do which is great but tell me what it can do that the ds CAN'T and I'll tell you more the ds can do that the psp CAN'T and that my friend is the bottom line.

[joeamis]

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Originally posted by: areefer
well my 20 years of gamning have taught me two things:

1-Gamers like familiarity and there are millions of gamers quite familiair with Nintendo handhelds

2-If it cost more it's got do more without me having to shell out to much money to get it's full potential

Now you can talk all day about what the psp can do which is great but tell me what it can do that the ds CAN'T and I'll tell you more the ds can do that the psp CAN'T and that my friend is the bottom line.

My 20+ years of gaming have taught me three things:

1- Gamers like familiarity and there are millions more of gamers right now who are quite familiar with Sony systems and all the portable products they have made.

2- If neither companies have released the price of their systems and games then what you say in literally every single post about PSP vs DS (prices) should be deleted.

3- You cannot say the DS will completely destroy the PSP as you have many times, atleast 3 years before either system will hit its prime, I'm sorry but you're not Nostradamous or The Bible Code infamous writer.

The Bottom Line is that you're a huge fanboy of the DS and you make points that people challenge and then you can't prove those points aren't questionable or negated, so you come up with more points that just don't hold enough credibility.  It's just very irritating.

[mouse_clicker]

I'm going to have to go with Joe on this, areefer. He's not saying the DS is bad and the PSP is good- in fact, his whole point is that we can't make any predictions at all right now, especially a week after both were unveiled. We have to give it some time. Either could do incredibly well. I have my own thoughts on the matter but it's based purely on speculation, so they don't really matter.

[Bloodworth]

Areefer I think a lot of your points are fine, it's just that you put too much weight behind all of them.  

Everyone's waiting to see how the first real handheld battle turns out, and while I think Nintendo will stay ahead with the DS, I don't think it will be quite strong enough to make the PSP completely obsolete.  I expect the PSP to have the same kind of market share in the handheld sector as the GameCube has in the home market. Like I said though, this is the first real challenger Nintendo's had since the Game Gear, and it's coming soon after Nintendo releases their own new product. So we'll just have to sit back and watch.  

[Bloodworth]

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Well without an "official" statement nothing is never considered fact to all but alot of rumours are true just like alot are false but it's not like the price and release of pictochat is the biggest secret in the world so I believe it could be pretty close to point.

You totally missed what I was saying.  The decision on what to do with PictoChat clearly hasn't been made yet, judging from my conversations with Nintendo reps on the show floor.  Any rumors at this point are likely just speculation and not based on facts leaking out before an official announcement.  

[areefer]

My points have been proven by history and until I'm proven wrong I believe ds will crush psp and still no one has given me things psp can do that ds can't plus everything I;ve read and from what I know about electronics I'm 100% sure psp will be a tad expensive for a portable system. That's my stance and I'm a stubborn old fool because long time ago I thought sega game gear was a great system and I actually bought one but it just never panned out and after seeing so many others fail I think only Nintendo can challenge Nintendo in the portable market.

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: joeamis


My 20+ years of gaming have taught me three things:

1- Gamers like familiarity and there are millions more of gamers right now who are quite familiar with Sony systems and all the portable products they have made.

2- If neither companies have released the price of their systems and games then what you say in literally every single post about PSP vs DS (prices) should be deleted.

3- You cannot say the DS will completely destroy the PSP as you have many times, atleast 3 years before either system will hit its prime, I'm sorry but you're not Nostradamous or The Bible Code infamous writer.

The Bottom Line is that you're a huge fanboy of the DS and you make points that people challenge and then you can't prove those points aren't questionable or negated, so you come up with more points that just don't hold enough credibility.  It's just very irritating.

My 20+ years of gaming have taught me three things:

1- Familiarity with nongaming hardware doesn't mean much, if anything. If it did Philips and Panasonic wouldn't have fallen flat.

2- Price is worth talking about even when we don't have precise figures to go with. Every article I've seen implies a minimum $299 for the PSP at launch and a maximum $199 for the DS at launch. So while it would be incorrect to talk about exact amounts, it is a reasonable assumption that the DS will be considerably cheaper.

3- I'm going to go you one better: the GBA will destroy the PSP before the DS even gets the chance to try. The GBA is just coming into its prime as these systems launch, and all the problems the PSP has against the DS are even more true against the GBA.

[joeamis]

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Originally posted by: jasonditz

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My 20+ years of gaming have taught me three things:

1- Familiarity with nongaming hardware doesn't mean much, if anything. If it did Philips and Panasonic wouldn't have fallen flat.

2- Price is worth talking about even when we don't have precise figures to go with. Every article I've seen implies a minimum $299 for the PSP at launch and a maximum $199 for the DS at launch. So while it would be incorrect to talk about exact amounts, it is a reasonable assumption that the DS will be considerably cheaper.

3- I'm going to go you one better: the GBA will destroy the PSP before the DS even gets the chance to try. The GBA is just coming into its prime as these systems launch, and all the problems the PSP has against the DS are even more true against the GBA.

I'll go lightly here since Bloodworth and Mouseclicker have made some good points.  Familiarity with nongaming hardware does mean more than nothing, the key is that Sony is an electronics company, one of the strongest in the world.  Gaming is electronics, having some idea about electronics makes it alot easier than having none.  My point was that they've had lots of experience with portable devices for decades (cameras, cd players, tvs, computers, pdas, tape players, recorders, phones, etc).  That counts for something, it's alot better to have released hundreds of millions of portable devices than none.

I have a strong feeling the price difference will not be $100 or if it is the PSP will include extra stuff like FF7AC packed in (like FFXI HD deal).  Sony recently stated that they will be incurring losses on the sale of the PSP for some time so they're definitely pushing a competitive pricepoint.

How is the GBA going to destroy the PSP before the DS even gets to try?  The DS is releasing before the PSP...

[jasonditz]

Barring some ungodly successful launch in which the DS sells millions of units, it is a relatively small player in the handheld market when the PSP debuts. I'm not saying the DS won't take sales away from the PSP, I'm saying that there are going to be 20+ million people with GBAs out there, there's still going to be plenty of GBA software coming out, and these customers are going to be weighing the PSP against that before they even consider another handheld they don't own.

I was aware of Sony's commitment to incur losses at launch on the PSP (Nintendo has stated a similar willingness with the DS for what its worth), but considering most of the early price estimates on the PSP were $400-$500 I figured that would mean $299... Sony is not Microsoft, they aren't going to be willing to sink billions of dollars on this.

If I had to make a prediction I'd say the DS will be $149 and the PSP will be $299... but of course that's merely an educated guess.


 

[KDR_11k]

Jason, it's normal for consoles to sell millions at launch.

I don't think who wins has anything to do with who's better, but at the predicted GBP 250 (I think that's from Sony's first presentation of the device, approx. 450 USD) I can see the price impacting Sony's success. Your average "cool" teen already needs money for clothes, alcohol, tobacco and cellphones (more exactly, telephone bills, both cell and normal). Although they are Sony's target audience, the only form of portable games they know are the games on their cell phones. They won't really save up that much money when they already have their parents demand they pay the phone bills and everything. They might be able to convince their parents to buy them a console or handheld, but at that price I don't see parents agreeing.

[WuTangTurtle]

I dunno all i can think about is that Nintendo has too many advantages, BIG ADVANTAGES.

1.  At the least Nintendo will have 3 months advantage.
2.  Nintendo brand Handhelds own the market place.
3.  Battery Life.
4.  Touch Pad.
5.  GAMES (Sorry but from what ive heard PSP is gonna be port city).
6.  Voice Recognition.
7.  100ft lan, plus WiFi compatability.
8.  Backwards Compatibility.
9.  Developer praise (from what ive heard DS is better, but then again thats what developers been saying about the GCN).

On the other hand PSP:

1.  Movies.
2.  Music.
3.  Larger screen.
4.  Awesome Graphics.
5.  Joystick.
6.  sexier design.
7.  WiFi compatability.

Thats about all i can see on PSP upside, and frankly i don't care about the movies cause i can't watch my dvds i have to buy new umd movies, and for music i already have a cd player and mp3 player.  The joystick by the way didnt feel all that good (i went to E3).  So basically the only real thing that intrests me about the PSP is it's graphics and screen size.

IMO Sony will need to really waste alot of money on advertisements and commercial time because it's gonna be hard to get a mass amount of people to buy a PSP for $299.  Heck i think Sony would have a very hard time on it's own competing with the GBA.

I seriously think that Sony has the same uphill climb as Ngage does well to a certain degree anyways.  Then again if 25% of the people that own PS2 buy a PSP that would be some trouble for the DS.