Topic: Sony may lose steam challenging Nintendo here!!!

[areefer]

I've been gaming for 20 years and remember the blunder that lead to sony's rise in our beloved game world so anyone who wants to compare sony bringing the psp to the portable scene to the original ps1 save it cause two things are different here. One is that Nintendo waited a year and a half to bring N64 to the arena to challenge the ps1 and the other is Nintendo lost major support from companies that just couldn't "wait" on Nintendo (it took six months for ps1's to really start selling cause everyone was waiting on N64 but after delay after delay and with the ps1 steadily picking up support it got to the point where everyone HAD to buy one and that black scar has lingered with the big N ever since) but now sony is going to be the one playing catch up behind Nintendo and entering the psp into a market Nintendo has controlled a LONG time without a year and a half lead. Not only does the ds have major support but it's backwards compatible and not to mention the fact Nintendo still has the gba and sp which will both get price cuts once ds comes out so it pans out like this: 1-Newbie's to the the portable arena will have three options from Nintendo versus one from sony and all three will be cheaper than the psp: 2-Existing portable gamers have been with Nintendo and with the bonus of backwards compatibilty you won't see many jumping ship not to mention the ds will be out before the psp which only worsens sony's chances: 3-Even though this is the portable arena all eyes will be on sony as they attempt what many have tried and failed to do against Nintendo in the portable arena so if the psp gets crushed like all the other gameboy challengers it may affect sony's beloved image as the top dog in videogames which could transcend into the living room  next-gen so while I applaud sony for stepping up to challenge the big N on their homecourt I think this is the wrong time (the right time would've been before the sp came out imo) and it's going to be a waste of money and hurt their image.  

[HereticPB]

Next time separate your ideas so people could read it better! But from what I take from this is sort of fanboyism and realistic thought.

I agree on most parts but not all of this thread. I do agree with the 3 prong approach against Sony. Having all three of those systems and cheaper than Sony would be a death hold on the industry. Hell 2 versions have outsold PS2s by a large margin.

Some could say the N64 and the Gamecube are in the same boat as they both launched after Sony. The reason why many game companies left to sony was because of the cheaper CD medium at the time. Cartridges at the time were really expensive not to mention Nintendo's cut of the cash. CD medium with Sony's low developer costs pushed many devs towards them.

Yes, if Sony does fail with the PSP. They would have a bad light on there operations as a gaming company as a whole. But with the likes of Metal Gear and Gran Turismo 4 on the PSP system it is looking dangerous for Nintendo and if GTA gets on the portable, which I am sure it will, you have a dangerous weapon against Nintendo.

However, if Nintendo could persuade the likes of Rockstar with GTA or Konami with MGS, to put games on the DS then Sony is plan out dead in the water!

[Bloodworth]

I think Nintendo pimping the DS as the "developers' system" really shows how much they've changed since the N64.  Anyone remember how Nintendo acted like having a limited "Dream Team" of developers was a good thing?

[mouse_clicker]

Nintendo's not just pushing the DS as a developers' system, the developers are responding- the short interviews they showed at the press conference were amazing. Those guys couldn't stop talking about how incredible the DS was, and they were all CEO's and VP's of huge 3rd parties.

[Chongman]

Still, we cannot rule out the psp. While developers may love it, not all consumers do and there are obviously people out there who are highly pro psp and anti ds. The media, for instance, even though DS was a much bigger part of the show, still cling to the Sony lifeboat. They were impressed, more so than the PSP, but which is getting more coverage right now? It doesn't feel like the ds...

[Ian Sane]

"The media, for instance, even though DS was a much bigger part of the show, still cling to the Sony lifeboat. They were impressed, more so than the PSP, but which is getting more coverage right now? It doesn't feel like the ds..."

Actually I find that the media for the most part has favoured the DS, usually because they were so impressed.  Gamespy is really the only one that comes across as strongly pro-PSP but that site is a glorified advertisement in the first place.

"Anyone remember how Nintendo acted like having a limited "Dream Team" of developers was a good thing?"

I remember that.  Even at the time I thought that Rare was only Dream Team member that was any good.  Nintendo pretty much had the exact same plan with the Cube and look how that turned out.  I'm really happy with the way they've handled third party support for the DS and I hope they do the same with the N5.

[joeamis]

Nintendo having 3 systems out at the same time isn't a big advantage.  It's a slim advantage and could actually work against them.  Supporting 2 different systems is harder than supporting 1 with quality games.  Therefor the PSP could gain alot more better titles since they only have to worry about 1 system.  

The PSP will not flop or get demolished by Nintendo and ruin Sony's image as you say.  The specs on the system are quite literally amazing, and the first footage of games and developers interviews confirms it's as good as they said it would be.  The PSP can also play music and movies, and as we saw with the PS2 this is what originally drove its sales.  Finally the PSP can hold a helluva lot more memory for games than the DS (like comparing N64 to PS1 memory for games).  That is a major advantage as we saw how it played out with the N64 and how developers clearly preferred disc medium, especially Square.  If you don't believe me just think of this, the DS is due out this year and has 100 developers lined up, the PSP isn't due out until Q2 2005 and it already has 99 developers signed on.

[Chongman]

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That is a major advantage as we saw how it played out with the N64 and how developers clearly preferred disc medium, especially Square.

That's quite flawed in ds vs psp comparison mostly because of psp battery life. Undoubtedly the psp will discourage direct streaming and pre rendered graphics will become  a must. I''m not sure how to present this argument mainly because i'm a techy, but...ah...you know what I mean. The disc medium shouldn't make too much of a difference.

Also think, the ds has roughly (i speculate) six months or so of a launch date difference. This is something that worked for sony, it could also work for nintendo. Afterall, after you've bought your kid the new high tech game thingy, will you fork out $300 additional for another one?




Ian~ I dont know...it just seems most major sites are more focused on psp even though they're all mostly impressed with the ds. maybe just my outlook though...

[areefer]

As far as the three systems are concerned I,m not saying Nintendo will support all three per say because I believe production of gba's will halt completely when ds comes out but there will be the issue of selling all the ones the have left at the time which will make the systems cheaper and don't forget that gba and sp are the same system packaged differently so they will in essence only be supporting two handhelds not three and with the amount of devs they have I doubt it'll be a problem plus I think once the psp comes out it'll be DS-1, SP-2, and PSP-3 as far as sales go. Just IMO.

[jasonditz]

The GBA will continue to be supported for quite some time yet. Just consider how many GBA owners there are in the world... they're not all going to buy DS's at launch.

[KDR_11k]

The difference is that if you make a GBA game, you're more limited by the tech but both GBA and DS owners can use it. That encourages GBA development if you're one of those companies who only care about the "units sold" number.

I think if the PSP is as powerful as claimed (I have my doubts) it'll have dev cycles much longer than the DS, which means either more expensive games, less games,  less "risky" games or a combination of the above.

[areefer]

Up until the sp came out Nintendo was vunerable (somewhat) to attack but ever since that sexy portable hit the shelves many have seen the big N thru refocused goggles and imo the finished ds is going to be waaay sexier than the e3 demos plus as much as I hated to admit it at first the dual screen idea is brilliant and well thought out by Nintendo because soooo much can be accomplished not to mention the fact it opens and closes which protects those TWO cool screens.

[HereticPB]

Guys it is happening again Sony vs Nintendo CD vs Cartridge.

The PSP UMD can store up to 1.8GigaBytes of digital data. The DS games are on 1 gigabit cartridges thats about 119.21 rounded Megabytes or 128 Megabytes of space.

That is a huge difference!!! We are comparing the DS to the PSP, which should not happen, but it does!  

[Luigi]

Quote
Originally posted by: joeamis
Nintendo having 3 systems out at the same time isn't a big advantage.  It's a slim advantage and could actually work against them.  Supporting 2 different systems is harder than supporting 1 with quality games.  Therefor the PSP could gain alot more better titles since they only have to worry about 1 system.

 
I don't follow.  Sony has to support 2 systems as well.

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The PSP can also play music and movies, and as we saw with the PS2 this is what originally drove its sales.

Actually, this won't work quite the same as it did for the PS2.  There were tons of PS1 games out and DVD was a common medium. While it can play music and movies, its all proprietary and requires new purchases.

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Finally the PSP can hold a helluva lot more memory for games than the DS (like comparing N64 to PS1 memory for games).  That is a major advantage as we saw how it played out with the N64 and how developers clearly preferred disc medium, especially Square.  If you don't believe me just think of this, the DS is due out this year and has 100 developers lined up, the PSP isn't due out until Q2 2005 and it already has 99 developers signed on.

But remember the PSP was originally slated for Xmas release as well, so their isn't any real head start here.  On the whole, I agree with you.  I think they both will be successful.  But I doubt either will even approach GBA sales.

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The difference is that if you make a GBA game, you're more limited by the tech but both GBA and DS owners can use it. That encourages GBA development if you're one of those companies who only care about the "units sold" number.

On the other hand, unless the game they want to make really needs one of the new features of the DS,  it makes a lot more sense to make it for the GBA. Units sold definately matters of course... but as we've seen time and again, new tech does not equal creativity. I have a feeling the GBA still has plenty of great games left in it.

[Darc Requiem]

In all honestly, I dont expect the DS medium to be that big of deal. The DS seems to be using a SD card type medium and if noticed Nintendo said the DS carts will be at least one gigbabit in size. So I'm guessing thats just the smallest cart they will sell initially with larger carts coming as the cost comes down. From my understanding DS carts are less expensive than GBA carts and don't have the manufacturing lag. So while they aren't GC discs, they are a much better alternative to GBA carts. Besides you have to figure in the negatives of the PSP meduim, the drive is gonna eat battery power and I have to wonder about the durablitiy of the discs....not to mention what their cost per unit will be.

Darc Requiem

[Chongman]

Will psp have load times?  

[jasonditz]

I think that's a given

[KDR_11k]

Quote
Originally posted by: Chongman
Will psp have load times?

No, it makes a photo of the disk and can push any part of it into memory without delay. </sarcasm>

[Mario]

Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Nintendo's not just pushing the DS as a developers' system, the developers are responding- the short interviews they showed at the press conference were amazing. Those guys couldn't stop talking about how incredible the DS was, and they were all CEO's and VP's of huge 3rd parties.

Yeah, I saw EA, Ubi-Soft, Sega etc. talking about it. But what systems don't they support? I'll believe in Nintendo's huge third party support for the DS when i see it.

I don't care either way though, i'd probably still only buy Nintendo games for it.

[Bloodworth]

umm.. Square Enix and Koei are making games for it.  That got my attention.  I mean what was the last Koei developed Nintendo title?

[WuTangTurtle]

I didnt even think about load times.

LOAD TIMES ON A PORTABLE HANDHELD SYSTEMS!

Thats not something i want at all, heck Load times and Portable Handheld Systems shouldn't even be in the same sentence!

Portables are fast fun on the go.

IMO if load times are anywhere near as bad as any PS2 games then any gameboy users will really be turned off by the PSP.

By the way i predict SquareEnix to support DS more than PSP, mainly due to the fact that the PSP will eat away at the battery for games that need to stream movies and such (cutscenes) which will discourage any developer to use any movies at all.

[areefer]

Let me break down what will go through the average consumers mind when looking at the psp and ds side by side:

psp-more expensive than ds
ds-a little more expensive than past gameboys but within my budget
psp-looks nice and has a nice screen but I got to buy a protective case or I'm going to scratch it up
ds-looks nice and has TWO (wow one of em is a touch screen) screens but it opens and closes so I can just close it to protect the screen
psp-has wireless connectivity between systems as well as wi-fi
ds-has wireless connectivity plus wi-fi as well
psp-sony's first portable system
ds-this is like Nintendo's 5th gameboy and they just keep getting better and better so this one must be great
psp-uses disc which means I'll definitely need a carrying case when I'm on the go to protect those disc
ds-uses cards which won't get scratched from being in my pocket
psp-"looking at psp games" well let me look at the ds games
ds-"looking at ds games"  has more games PLUS it's compatible with gba games too
psp-I don't see why I would pay more for this plus shell out extra for a case
ds-I can get a ds plus a couple games and I don't need batteries

[SatansNemesis]

Crystal Chronicles all the way! That game was born to be on the ds. Use the top screen for the action (its wireless so its easier to play together) and the stylus can be used on the bottom menu to select items and such. That way you can still move around/attack while moving in the menu. This is a high potential game.

Though one thought, if the DS is backwards compatible, can it be used as a controller for GC games? That could give me an excuse to get one and keep my sp. And could be considered a plus for people looking to buy one.

[WuTangTurtle]

Nintendo did say that the DS would be a third pillar supposedly connecting all three for something cool.  I wonder what could come of a DS GCN connection for future games.