Author Topic: Silicon Knights and Nintendo break up (Read 103310 times)

Rich · « **Reply #350 on:** April 20, 2004, 10:42:03 AM »

Yeah Ymeegod, you don't seem to understand how 3rd and 2nd party developers work. They come up with a bunch of ideas, they then shop around to different publishers to see if there is any interest for it. Once the development house finds a publisher then they are set to make the game with all the expenses paid for by the publisher. It doesnt really matter how well the game sells in terms of the amount of money they make because they recieved all that they needed. If their game sells well enouph then yes they can make some profit and if a development house starts a good track record they can charge publishers more money for a game they make. but if the game doesn't sell well at all, like eternal darkness, the publisher takes the loss not the developer. So with eternal darkness, SK didn't lose any money only Nintendo did.

Also, you have to look at how different REmake was, and how much more it pulled you in.

Perfect Cell · « **Reply #351 on:** April 20, 2004, 02:45:52 PM »

As you have heard, Nintendo and Silicon Knights have reached an agreement allowing Silicon Knights to pursue its vision of video game entertainment with other companies. Nintendo respects the creative work of Silicon Knights, and the parties have left the door open to work on future projects that meet the creative vision of both companies. At this time, our philosophies on software are different enough to lead to a departure from our current relationship

If this is the case then IGN was dead on. Their philosophies are the reason for the breakup. Im sorry but i really dont agree with that. Old School gameplay, and less emphasis on graphics and story will get you nowhere fast.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #352 on:** April 20, 2004, 03:10:14 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
Im sorry but i really dont agree with that. Old School gameplay, and less emphasis on graphics and story will get you nowhere fast.

Yeah, I need more emphasis on sex, drugs, and violence!

Rich · « **Reply #353 on:** April 20, 2004, 05:19:50 PM »

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Originally posted by: Perfect CellAs you have heard, Nintendo and Silicon Knights have reached an agreement allowing Silicon Knights to pursue its vision of video game entertainment with other companies. Nintendo respects the creative work of Silicon Knights, and the parties have left the door open to work on future projects that meet the creative vision of both companies. At this time, our philosophies on software are different enough to lead to a departure from our current relationship

You got that from Nintendo?

Yeah thats pretty much the exact same letter NOA gave to me, heres mine if anybody wants to read it.

Message(#6851-000266-8609\2668609)

Hi Rich,

Thank you for your e-mail. While I have limited information on the subject of our company and Silicon Knights, I'll be happy to share with you what I know. Nintendo and Silicon Knights have reached an agreement allowing Silicon Knights to pursue its vision of video game entertainment with other companies. Nintendo respects the creative work of Silicon Knights, and the parties have left the door open to work on future projects that meet the creative vision of both companies. At this time, our philosophies on software are different enough to lead to a departure from our current relationship.

Your feedback regarding this matter is extremely important to us, so I will be sure to forward your e-mail on to the appropriate departments for further review. While they cannot respond to all forwarded feedback, your comments will definitely be heard.

Sincerely,

Nintendo of America Inc.
Greg Hamilton

Perfect Cell · « **Reply #354 on:** April 20, 2004, 05:30:52 PM »

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Yeah, I need more emphasis on sex, drugs, and violence

No

Emphasis on Story, like Final Fantasy, like Metal Gear, like Chrono Trigger. Dumbing down the Story and graphics for just the gameplay? Ninteno cant jump back in time to the 1980s. People dont want Pong and Pacman. They want games like Splinter Cell and Xenosaga.

the_zombie_luke · « **Reply #355 on:** April 20, 2004, 05:36:42 PM »

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Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
Quote
Yeah, I need more emphasis on sex, drugs, and violence

No Emphasis on Story, like Final Fantasy, like Metal Gear, like Chrono Trigger. Dumbing down the Story and graphics for just the gameplay? Ninteno cant jump back in time to the 1980s. People dont want Pong and Pacman. They want games like Splinter Cell and Xenosaga.

Xenosaga? That was a game that didn't help your argument at all! I know I hate sitting through long FMV's, especially when they cannot be skipped, like in Saga, some are 45 minutes! I hate it when people bring this up, since Wind Waker and Sunshine had delightful stories, sure they weren't Eternal Darkness, but they are far from the days when the NES Zelda and Mario did not have much in the way of stories. I think that this argument is weak, considering Wolfenstein 3D's story was a paragraph in the readme, and now, even Nintendo is far beyond those days.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #356 on:** April 20, 2004, 05:46:34 PM »

"Dumbing down the Story and graphics for just the gameplay?"

Ahaha! Contrary to what Square may have you thinking, most gamers like to play their games...

Perfect Cell · « **Reply #357 on:** April 20, 2004, 06:18:21 PM »

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I think that this argument is weak

Not to me. Games are soo much more than they were 10/20 years ago. They are becoming closer to an artform, and story is vital for that. When i buy a game one of the most important parts is the story. Shenmue was one of my favorite games in the last 5 years. The game play wasnt great, but the story kept me in it. I wanted to see what happened next . It had that "movie" type feel. Eternal Darkness was also great, and its deep adult story was one of the reasons for it. Check out the more popular games. They feature great stories and graphics. Not simple graphics and no stories.

Bloodworth · « **Reply #358 on:** April 20, 2004, 06:23:01 PM »

Actually, I do think that story VS gameplay may be the root of all this. I'm sure Nintendo (rightfully) thinks that MGS has way too many movie sequences. If you took out the movies, I think that Luigi's Mansion is probably the longer game. So perhaps this brilliant collaboration is what led the companies to "agree to disagree" and part ways.

I think if anything, it has more to do with SK having more control over their content and not having to answer to Nintendo, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they still only put out games on Nintendo consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if they went multiplatform either, but I really don't think they've become exclusive to someone else.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #359 on:** April 20, 2004, 06:27:22 PM »

"Check out the more popular games. They feature great stories and graphics. Not simple graphics and no stories."

And it all turns out that the more popular games suck...Look at Final Fantasy...Just watch a freaking movie for crying out loud...

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #360 on:** April 20, 2004, 06:49:16 PM »

How could Nintendo have possibly interfered with Silicon Knights' desire for story? Eternal Darkness was chocked full of cut scenes, as was Metal Gear Solid (keep in mind, too, it was Nintendo who wanted MGS on the Gamecube in the first place). If Nintendo really wanted to, they could have forced SK to get rid of nearly all the cut scenes in ED, but there seems to be absolutely no indication of that. No, I don't think Nintendo is the company to force it's beliefs on others, and I think that's a pretty poor excuse for SK leaving.

Rich · « **Reply #361 on:** April 20, 2004, 07:11:06 PM »

Yeah mouse has a point, if Nintendo wanted they could have had many of the cutscenes in ED shortened or taken out and replaced with Metriod Prime like story telling where the story was read.

Berny · « **Reply #362 on:** April 20, 2004, 07:11:41 PM »

IE: They didn't leave.

Rich · « **Reply #363 on:** April 20, 2004, 07:25:31 PM »

Its 50/50 in my mind. But if anything I don't think that SK will become 2nd party again I think they would become 1st.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #364 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:18:00 PM »

I've never understood this idea that graphics, story and gameplay can't co-exist in one game. Ocarina of Time is probably the greatest game ever made and it contains ALL of those elements. And Nintendo made it. So if they've decided that sort of thing is not worth pursuing then they've changed their game design philosophy. In other words they used to have the same ideas as Silicon Knights and now they don't which is a perfect reason for them to part.

PaLaDiN · « **Reply #365 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:29:54 PM »

Nintendo hasn't changed that philosophy, see Wind Waker, which I think is better than OoT.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #366 on:** April 20, 2004, 08:46:14 PM »

Chairman Yamauchi-san (the original courier of chaos) is actually Mantorok's servant, and Denis the "mind screwer" happens to serve Xel'otath, so obviously we see Denis doing his part by clashing with an enemy alignment. The playing field will soon be rounded out as Ulyaoth sends Kojima-san, Chatturga will send Mikami-san, and Miyamoto-sensei will finally bring order and peace under the guidance of En'gha.

Gremio · « **Reply #367 on:** April 20, 2004, 10:01:28 PM »

I still don't know what to believe. I guess I'm 60/40 on the topic... leaning more toward they really did end exclusivity. My brother, however, seems to be 100% sure it's a sanity effect. He rarely even surfs the net and hardly even reads any news sites. He reads a lot of magazines, though. All he had to hear was SK leaving Nintendo and possible "sanity effect" for ED2 in the same sentence and his mind was made up.

nemo_83 · « **Reply #368 on:** April 20, 2004, 10:06:17 PM »

This news sucks. On the bright side I know that this is what will lead to the rise of the Knights as strong force within the industry.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #369 on:** April 21, 2004, 03:16:23 AM »

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Nintendo hasn't changed that philosophy, see Wind Waker, which I think is better than OoT.

Good point- if anything, Nintendo is fleshing out that philosophy more and more. Wind Waker had an incredible artistic style that was amazingly well done, if you ask me, and has the most involving story in a Zelda game yet, save for maybe Majora's Mask. On top of all that it preserved the classic Zelda gameplay, just as every other Zelda game has.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #370 on:** April 21, 2004, 03:23:46 AM »

Anything that gets in the way of gameplay needs to be adjusted. Really, a movie-like story is a completely wrong direction for a game, since a movie is meant as a passive activity and a game as an active one. Games need the ability to change the outcome of the story, not to live through a predetermined story and maybe beating up baddies in between to qualify it as a game. Sure, you might love the feeling of just living through a story, but you could just as well read a book then (cheaper, easier available, more socially acceptable and usually higher quality).

Eternal Darkness didn't have great gameplay. Hell, it had flaws like "you can't combo when there's a wall next to you", which are absolutely idiotic! The game relied on its story to stay alive and make it seem like more than a straight-forward hack&slay. Hell, FFCC, which is often criticized for lack of gameplay depth, had deeper gameplay than ED! Only MMORPGs are worse in that respect.

nemo: They weren't before, what tells you they'll be afterwards?

the_zombie_luke · « **Reply #371 on:** April 21, 2004, 08:12:32 AM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
How could Nintendo have possibly interfered with Silicon Knights' desire for story?

I agree. Just look at the end of Paul Luther's chapter. I'm sure if Nintendo were limiting SK in any way, that sequence would have been cut.

the_zombie_luke · « **Reply #372 on:** April 21, 2004, 09:44:19 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
Quote
I think that this argument is weak

Not to me. Games are soo much more than they were 10/20 years ago. They are becoming closer to an artform, and story is vital for that. When i buy a game one of the most important parts is the story. Shenmue was one of my favorite games in the last 5 years. The game play wasnt great, but the story kept me in it. I wanted to see what happened next . It had that "movie" type feel. Eternal Darkness was also great, and its deep adult story was one of the reasons for it. Check out the more popular games. They feature great stories and graphics. Not simple graphics and no stories.

If you want weak gameplay with a good story, that's your choice. I would rather have fun over story, but they don't have to cancel each other out. I say videogames already are an artform. Some of Miyamoto's games are an expression of his life philosophies, and I would say a lot of his games are works of art.

Perfect Cell · « **Reply #373 on:** April 21, 2004, 10:07:47 AM »

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So if they've decided that sort of thing is not worth pursuing then they've changed their game design philosophy

Well most of Iwatas public comments seem to make me think that nintendo is working on changing things, hes said things like deep complex games are not the awnser. Simpler games are...

the_zombie_luke · « **Reply #374 on:** April 21, 2004, 10:09:50 AM »

Iwata was saying that simply making games look better and adding complex stories would only get the industry so far. Judging by Japan's video game industry, it looks like he is right in some ways.

News:

Author Topic: Silicon Knights and Nintendo break up (Read 103310 times)