Author Topic: Bad Tales of Symphonia news (Read 23005 times)

Ian Sane · « **Reply #75 on:** April 10, 2004, 05:30:00 PM »

"No I have checked into thier games and although they may not be on par with Nintendo on a first party basis, there 3rd party support is huge. Also alot of there games ( Kingdom Hearts, FF 10 ) sell for 25 AUS dollers ( around 10 US dollers )."

That's good research for the PS2 but the PS3 and PSP are different. It's impossible for you to have done any research on the titles available for those systems yet because they haven't been released or even shown to the public. So if you've already decided to buy those systems you have made a blind decision. What MC was saying is that you should wait until the PS3 and the other next gen consoles have shown off their games and then make an educated decision.

GaimeGuy I think emailing Namco is worth a try but there's no point in doing so yet. Until they actually announce ToS for the PS2 for release in North America you'll just get the usual "we don't comment on rumours message". With these companies if it hasn't been revealed in a press release they don't acknowledge it.

Realistically though we can't do anything about this situation. Namco of Japan makes the call and I doubt they care at all what non-Japanese consumers think. And we can't protest by not buying their games because that will just make things worse. It would support their decision to port. The best thing we can do is buy ToS and make it a huge success. That way Namco will know it's worthwhile to support the Cube and even if they port everything to the PS2 they'll continue to at least give us something.

MeddmaWamm · « **Reply #76 on:** April 10, 2004, 07:03:49 PM »

So you have have no plans to buy Nintendo's next system until they reveal some of its software?

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #77 on:** April 10, 2004, 07:32:37 PM »

Quote
So you have have no plans to buy Nintendo's next system until they reveal some of its software?

It's not about buying it or not buying it, it's about indifference- right now I'm indifferent to the N5 because I know quite literally nothing about it. If it were released tomorrow, I wouldn't buy it. I don't have plans not to buy the console, but I can't say I have plans to buy it, either.

akdaman1 · « **Reply #78 on:** April 10, 2004, 08:29:57 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"No I have checked into thier games and although they may not be on par with Nintendo on a first party basis, there 3rd party support is huge. Also alot of there games ( Kingdom Hearts, FF 10 ) sell for 25 AUS dollers ( around 10 US dollers )."

That's good research for the PS2 but the PS3 and PSP are different. It's impossible for you to have done any research on the titles available for those systems yet because they haven't been released or even shown to the public. So if you've already decided to buy those systems you have made a blind decision. What MC was saying is that you should wait until the PS3 and the other next gen consoles have shown off their games and then make an educated decision.

GaimeGuy I think emailing Namco is worth a try but there's no point in doing so yet. Until they actually announce ToS for the PS2 for release in North America you'll just get the usual "we don't comment on rumours message". With these companies if it hasn't been revealed in a press release they don't acknowledge it.

Realistically though we can't do anything about this situation. Namco of Japan makes the call and I doubt they care at all what non-Japanese consumers think. And we can't protest by not buying their games because that will just make things worse. It would support their decision to port. The best thing we can do is buy ToS and make it a huge success. That way Namco will know it's worthwhile to support the Cube and even if they port everything to the PS2 they'll continue to at least give us something.

Yes you are right, and of course I will take a look at the line up for each system that comes out. But what I meant is I will buy PS3, PSP if this trend continues. You know the won where Nintendo keep losing exclusives thinking to themselves that everythings fine. I will also buy a N5.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #79 on:** April 10, 2004, 08:35:36 PM »

"So you have have no plans to buy Nintendo's next system until they reveal some of its software?"

I think I probably will but I haven't "officially" made my decision yet. If they reveal that it's like the virtual boy 2 or something then no I won't buy it. The N64 sounded like a must own to me when it was first being talked about but when it was revealed to be a cartridge system I waited because I figured that would affect things and it did (though I did get one years later when there was a good supply of games to buy). Even with the Cube I sort of assumed I would get it but didn't really decide "I'm getting it at launch" until I saw the launch titles.

But with a Nintendo console I think it's different because you buy a Nintendo console for Nintendo games which are guaranteed to be on that console. With Sony it's for the third parties and those games could be released on any console. For example if you bought the PS2 early on because you liked the Resident Evil games you missed out.

This is pretty off topic though. Sorry about that.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #80 on:** April 11, 2004, 07:59:56 AM »

There's a 100% chance that the PS2 will get the inferior version. I'll back that up with numbers: The Gamecube has four (4) controller ports, the PS2 has two (2). Tales of Symphonia has four (4) characters in the party and in multiplayer each one can be controlled by a player. Since noone has a multitap that feat isn't possible on PS2, as proven by the numbers. Also, the Gamecube controller is clearly superior to the PS2 controller (who in hell got that stupid idea to make digital the primary control on a 3d console???).
Furthermore they'll need to dumb down the graphics unless they developed the whole thing for the PS2 in first place.

If you want my oppinion, any bit of JPop I don't have to suffer through is an improvement. I'd prefer songs without any vocals, but as long as it's not that godawful JPop I can at least listen to it without trying to remove my ears.

As for Namco, time for a beating. Either pay 'em off (seriously, I don't think Sony would bother with paying money for yet another RPG that is out on another system for at least a year by the time they'd get it. Sony get's enough of 'em for free, why pay money for a single one?) or punish 'em. I'd rather see Nintendo paying Namco, buying shares and in some way get them into a contract ("An offer they can't refuse", sorry, watched the Godfather yesterday...).

GaimeGuy · « **Reply #81 on:** April 11, 2004, 08:46:59 AM »

A lot of people are complaining about Nintendo's tactics, claiming that Nintendo needs to play dirtier. Don't forget, Nintendo played VERY dirty in the NES and SNES days, and lots of companies ended up hating them for their dirty tactics used against them. One of them ended up taking over the industry, after Nintendo backstabbed them (Sony), so I think Nintendo's smart to not play dirty, anymore. It didn't end up doing them any good. Oh sure, it ended up with them getting better products, but developers generated bad feelings towards nintendo, and when they got the chance, they jumped ship.

Ok, that's a pretty broad assumption. But you can't deny the fact that Nintendo's tactics came and bit them in the backside when Sony emerged with the Playstation. Now, I doubt that Square Enix is going to turn around and make a console to compete with the playstation, but you know what I mean.

You might be looking at it as Nintendo being too nice, but I see it as Nintendo learned their lesson. That's also seen in the aid and collaberations they're engaging in with other developers, too. You can't pull under-the-table stunts forever. But if you establish frinedly relationships with other companies, you can ensure their loyalty and support.

Darc Requiem · « **Reply #82 on:** April 11, 2004, 11:06:42 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: GaimeGuy
A lot of people are complaining about Nintendo's tactics, claiming that Nintendo needs to play dirtier. Don't forget, Nintendo played VERY dirty in the NES and SNES days, and lots of companies ended up hating them for their dirty tactics used against them. One of them ended up taking over the industry, after Nintendo backstabbed them (Sony), so I think Nintendo's smart to not play dirty, anymore. It didn't end up doing them any good. Oh sure, it ended up with them getting better products, but developers generated bad feelings towards nintendo, and when they got the chance, they jumped ship.

Ok, that's a pretty broad assumption. But you can't deny the fact that Nintendo's tactics came and bit them in the backside when Sony emerged with the Playstation. Now, I doubt that Square Enix is going to turn around and make a console to compete with the playstation, but you know what I mean.

You might be looking at it as Nintendo being too nice, but I see it as Nintendo learned their lesson. That's also seen in the aid and collaberations they're engaging in with other developers, too. You can't pull under-the-table stunts forever. But if you establish frinedly relationships with other companies, you can ensure their loyalty and support.

I agree with you point about Nintendo's authoritarian tactics in the 80s and 90s but Nintendo didn't backstab Sony over the SNES CD. Sony tried to slide one by on Nintendo and Nintendo choose another partner. Sony wanted royalty fees on each CD game sold and that infuriated Nintendo to say the least. I'm sorry but I don't see Nintendo or any other hardware manufacturer paying royalty fees on there own games to another party. That defeats the purpose of being a hardware manufacturer. If you are going to pay royalty fees on your own hardware why spend the money to develop it in the first place.

Darc Requiem

akdaman1 · « **Reply #83 on:** April 11, 2004, 01:01:08 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: GaimeGuy
A lot of people are complaining about Nintendo's tactics, claiming that Nintendo needs to play dirtier. Don't forget, Nintendo played VERY dirty in the NES and SNES days, and lots of companies ended up hating them for their dirty tactics used against them. One of them ended up taking over the industry, after Nintendo backstabbed them (Sony), so I think Nintendo's smart to not play dirty, anymore. It didn't end up doing them any good. Oh sure, it ended up with them getting better products, but developers generated bad feelings towards nintendo, and when they got the chance, they jumped ship.

Ok, that's a pretty broad assumption. But you can't deny the fact that Nintendo's tactics came and bit them in the backside when Sony emerged with the Playstation. Now, I doubt that Square Enix is going to turn around and make a console to compete with the playstation, but you know what I mean.

You might be looking at it as Nintendo being too nice, but I see it as Nintendo learned their lesson. That's also seen in the aid and collaberations they're engaging in with other developers, too. You can't pull under-the-table stunts forever. But if you establish frinedly relationships with other companies, you can ensure their loyalty and support.

There dirty tactics lead them through those generations. They lost support on the 64 because it was cartridge based.
Nintendo has alot of money in the bank and I like it how there aqquiring 2nd parties ( smart move ) but surley they have enough money to buy a large enough share of Namco to keep enough titles Exclusive.

ruby_onix · « **Reply #84 on:** April 11, 2004, 02:33:29 PM »

Quote
Don't forget, Nintendo played VERY dirty in the NES and SNES days, and lots of companies ended up hating them for their dirty tactics used against them. One of them ended up taking over the industry, after Nintendo backstabbed them (Sony), so I think Nintendo's smart to not play dirty, anymore. It didn't end up doing them any good. Oh sure, it ended up with them getting better products, but developers generated bad feelings towards nintendo, and when they got the chance, they jumped ship.

Ok, that's a pretty broad assumption. But you can't deny the fact that Nintendo's tactics came and bit them in the backside when Sony emerged with the Playstation.

Side note: Nintendo didn't backstab Sony. That's just how Next Gen magazine said it happened. Next Gen was famously Sony-biased (it got so bad that it became a running joke with them), and got that quote from Olaf Olaffson, one of SCEA's highest-ups. Next Gen was the first magazine to really show us the "behind the scenes" stuff of the videogame industry, but I think a lot of that had to do with SCEA. They won over Next Gen by giving them all the inside access they wanted, and made Next Gen who they were. Other companies started to open up, but SCEA was the first, and the most-open to them.

Basically, Sony partnered with Nintendo for some SNES technology deals. Sony turned on Nintendo and tried to kill them with an SNES CD (called the Play Station). Nintendo didn't lie down for it, and got onto even footing by announcing their own SNES CD. Sony took Nintendo to court. Sony called it a "stab in the back" and "legal trickery", since the Japanese courts ruled that Nintendo was allowed to make their own SNES CD, since Sony had clearly violated a "good faith" clause. Sony then killed their own Play Station (after making, and then breaking, a deal to actually "partner" with Nintendo on the SNES CD), and started their own 100% Sony-owned "PSX", while Nintendo's SNES CD never got out of the gates before they saw the N64 on the horizon.

Back to the topic, the PSX "won" against the N64 because of the money factor of CDs, and the fact that it was the developer favorite. The development industry got the idea into their heads that the PSX won because it was their favorite.

The PS2 had proven that to be false. It was always about the money. The fact that the PSX was the easiest to work with, was (for the developers) a lucky fluke.

I do like the "nice" Nintendo more myself, but sometimes they don't seem to get any respect. Maybe when a company like Namco disses the Cube, Nintendo should threaten a little. "Y'know, we're trying to be nice to you here. You're not helping matters by pulling this crap."

Ian Sane · « **Reply #85 on:** April 11, 2004, 08:47:22 PM »

I don't think Nintendo should go back to their supreme dictator tactics. Realistically they can't because they don't have the same position of power so third parties can just tell them to go f*ck themselves. They actually are still pulling out some of the old bullsh!t as their license fees have always been higher than Sony's for no other reason beyond greed.

But super wimpy Nintendo is no good either. They have to be somewhere in the middle. They have to suck up to third parties but in a way that they don't get screwed. They have to make it so that third parties feel that they have to support Nintendo consoles. The best way to do that is to give them incentives to make exclusives be it lower license fees, absorbing some of the publishing costs, etc. Nintendo has done this to an extent by letting third parties work with Nintendo franchises. But that's not enough. They don't have to just give them incentive to make exclusives but also dissuade them from porting to other consoles. One possible way to do it is to help third parties use the Cube hardware to the full potential so that they CAN'T port to the PS2 without a lot of hassle and a huge drop in graphics. They could still port to the Xbox in that situation but that's not as big of a deal as porting to the PS2.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #86 on:** April 11, 2004, 11:05:15 PM »

How about this offer: Royalties on an exclusive game are just a fraction of the normal ones and if the game is successful the publisher gets a discount on his next few titles?

Nintendo no longer has that iron fist, but Sony is doing their best to get to that level again, leading to some incredibly stupid decisions (apparently SCEA rejected Killer 7, Viewtiful Joe and maybe soon Tales). That's why Capcom isn't PS2 exclusive, they fear that Sony gains a monopoly where they can dictate conditions that everybody has to adhere to (what Microsoft is dreaming of and has as a mission statement).

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #87 on:** April 12, 2004, 03:08:55 AM »

Quote
They actually are still pulling out some of the old bullsh!t as their license fees have always been higher than Sony's for no other reason beyond greed.

Eh, from everything I've heard, Nintendo's licensing fees aren't any higher than Sony's or Microsoft's- in fact, all 3 companies' licensing are about the same. I'm not sure where you heard Nintendo was greedy and kept their licensing fees higher.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #88 on:** April 12, 2004, 03:43:38 AM »

That's how it was during the 64 era, but not now...

Ymeegod · « **Reply #89 on:** April 12, 2004, 05:57:52 AM »

"Eh, from everything I've heard, Nintendo's licensing fees aren't any higher than Sony's or Microsoft's- in fact, all 3 companies' licensing are about the same. I'm not sure where you heard Nintendo was greedy and kept their licensing fees higher."

Actually the GC has the highest fee still even after nintendo reduced it back in June 2003. Prior to that it was nearly $2.00-3.00 higher than Sony's. After the reduction it's only like a buck higher than sony's.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #90 on:** April 12, 2004, 11:19:57 AM »

What kind of proof do you have, ymeegod? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to see some evidence.

Ymeegod · « **Reply #91 on:** April 13, 2004, 04:41:21 AM »

Gee I don't know. Why not check out PlanetGamecube

since they even had an articles about it.

Ymeegod · « **Reply #92 on:** April 13, 2004, 04:57:35 AM »

Also Nintendo was charging a "flat-fee" up to a year ago, meaning third parties didn't get a break if they decided to place their game in the bargin bin--they would have needed paying the full amount. Of course that was addressed last year and why we see tons of bargin games nowadays for the GC.

Ymeegod · « **Reply #93 on:** April 13, 2004, 05:10:40 AM »

Lastly the royalty fee depends on the publisher too. EA games gets a huge discount vrs the others :0.

Oh, I got the dates mixed, it's april 2003--not june.

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #94 on:** April 13, 2004, 07:26:42 AM »

Triple-posting should be instant death...

DrZoidberg · « **Reply #95 on:** April 13, 2004, 07:45:00 AM »

blol, three posts in about twenty minutes and you edit the last one to fix an error. SAS ATTACK.

[small on topic message to justifiy post goes here]

KDR_11k · « **Reply #96 on:** April 13, 2004, 10:41:21 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ymeegod
Of course that was addressed last year and why we see tons of bargin games nowadays for the GC.

I never see bargains for the GC. Games are 60 until they get thrown off the shelves by the retailers.

Uglydot · « **Reply #97 on:** April 13, 2004, 01:19:54 PM »

They aren't even close to that here. Here they are 40-50 then work their way down. Sounds like you are getting screwed.

Ymeegod · « **Reply #98 on:** April 13, 2004, 07:55:57 PM »

"60 until they get thrown off the shelves by the retailers. "

Think he's canadian. Alot of games come with $40 retail price now even for the GC. Can think of a couple of dozen of the top of my head--the most recent is Twin Snakes.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #99 on:** April 14, 2004, 12:08:06 AM »

Nope, european. That's 60 Euros, equalling about 70-75 US dollars. Really, I can import a game from Lik-Sang for less than that, including taxes and customs!

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Author Topic: Bad Tales of Symphonia news (Read 23005 times)