Topic: My OPINION on PGC... Goodbye old friend

[popkorn1]

I've been coming to PGC for a long, long, long time.  I always found it to be the best place for all my Nintendo needs.

Well, that's changed.

I think PGC has gone down the tubes.  The majority of the news (if not all of it) I find at other sites, such as what's quickly becoming my new home:  Nintendojo (http://www.nintendojo.com).  Maybe they don't have the reliabality of PGC (or maybe they do, I dunno), but they're more put together, more fun, up to date, easy on the eyes, and less intrusive.  And they don't even hesitate to post occasional rumors, labeled "RUMOR".  Ain't nothin wrong with that.

To me it just seems like things are always delayed here.  Of course, that's not always the case, but most of the time when I come here, I've already read everything that another site posted earlier.. and all I'm surprised with here is which popup or flash-hostile-takeover I get to experience today.  Or maybe a full page "in-between" ad, a la IGN.

Seriously, the advertisements alone are the main reason I'm nearing the end of my PGC visits.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't need ads, I'm very much aware of resources needed to run a successful site, and that they need money to keep things running to us for free.  All I know is out of ANY site I regularly visit, PGC BY FAR has way more ads than anybody else, and I do visit plenty of large sites that aren't funded by giant, wealthy companies.

Everybody says "Get a popup blocker!" or "Try ____ browser!"

I'M NOT GOING TO GET ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE JUST SO I CAN VISIT PGC IN PEACE!  Besides, I am using MyIE2 (may not be the best, but it works for me) and the pop up blocker built into it does barely anything for PGC.

Not to mention, the design of the site is highly outdated.  That's not really an issue, but it's becoming an eyesore.  The forum moderators are far too anal, other communites have a much more relaxed vibe.  Sure, while there may be more useless posts (or *gasp* POLLS) in other forums, they're at least more entertaining than the "spam against spam" in here.  Its just out of hand.

And finally, I miss Billy.  And I miss hearing Rick Powers tease at all the upcoming goods he knows that we don't.

I'll still check up on the old site now and then.  I'll maybe even post again (I didn't ever post much, but I had a few handfuls).. I just wish things were better.

There's so much I don't like about this site anymore, it's just sad.  I wish something would be done, it's like watching a great friend turn into a dick.

[mouse_clicker]

Quote
I think PGC has gone down the tubes. The majority of the news (if not all of it) I find at other sites, such as what's quickly becoming my new home: Nintendojo (http://www.nintendojo.com).

(eccentric laughing)

Oh wait, you're being serious?

(more eccentric laughing)

[popkorn1]

Mind if I ask what's wrong with Nintendojo, or how PGC is better?  Just curious.. I've been going there for about 3 months now, and notice the same news faster, plus some more, and an overall better design, look and feel.

And besides, the point of the thread wasn't to talk about Nintendojo, but of the changes I think need to happen to PGC.  That's all.

[Bill Aurion]

Wait, when were you ever here?  And why should we care?

1) Posting baseless rumors is about as unprofessional as you can get(Nintendojo, that's a laugh...)
2) Using IE is a terrible mistake... *edited due to harshness*

[Bloodworth]

Almost nobody here has any control with the business side of things, so I can't talk about ads, but I still don't think the pop ups are all that bad.  Pop up blockers are becoming rather standard in browsers anyways, so I honestly don't know how long pop-ups will last.  

I think you're picking a strange time to leave because of news coverage, because it's clearly getting better.  Just look at our recent article on Fire Emblem, which was up before a lot of other sites.  We do post rumors when they're warranted, but as someone else said, we can't just make stuff up -- which is something a lot of rumor editors tend to do.  The entire games industry is getting more organized about how they get the news out, so you're going to continue seeing all of us look more and more the same on the news front. Even if one of us gets a story up an hour or two before everyone else, it doesn't make much difference for most people that read once or twice a day.

Complaining about moderation is funny to me.  We've gotten more and more tame as the years have gone by.  Those who have been on the forums the longest may remember a time when they seemed so exclusive, you'd feel ashamed for saying anything that didn't sound like you were an expert on the subject.

Site design will be addressed, and it won't be our first redesign.  I'm sure you realize that we're going to need drastic changes soon with the upcoming DS and other systems.  

And finally, I miss Rick and Billy too.  Rick is technically still around, but the days when he sat at home and worked PGC full time are over.  He's got a job and classes to deal with now.  He's probably the biggest reason I ever started reading the site, so I know where you're coming from.

Technical problems killed us in 2003 and kept us from doing a lot.  However, I feel confident that we still have a great staff, and the site is still strong, and getting better again.   I hope you hang around.  

 

[popkorn1]

Bill:
I didn't post on the forum much, with just around 40 posts.. not that it matters, because my post wasn't referring to how I wasn't going to post anymore.  I was posting it as general visitor, not a forum regular.  And as for your second comment regarding IE, people need to realize that the vast majority of internet users are IE users, and it's this site is the only problem site for ME (out of the ones that I visit regularly, at least.)  The whole "you use IE, of course its crap, you're an idiot." is a tired excuse.


Bloodworth:

Thank you VERY much for the professional response, as opposed to the other two posts.  It was actually very refreshing to read that from you, because I honestly expected a "If you don't like it, leave." type of answer.  Needless to say, yours was much more welcome, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I admit I posted it at a strange time (in regards to the news) .. but it was mainly out of frustration because I was listening to music while I visited (rather loudly, too) and it was hugely interrupted by a loud, obnoxious flash ad that overlaps the entire front page, and with my speakers turned so high.. needless to say it got my attention.  So that's what really prompted me to post.   It's not popups that bug me, I use MyIE2 and it blocks them just fine.. its the flash ads that overtake the page and you can't find the damn close button, or the "in between" ads, ones that play sound, etc.  Banner ads/popups are fine..  I only have a problem when it interferes with the site itself.  But like you said, you're out of control of the ads, so I guess I'm barking up the wrong tree.

You do have a point in the improving coverage, and its encouraging to hear you say "it's clearly getting better" -- because that hopefully means that at least you noticed it was lacking/delayed for a while (or is it seriously just me who thought so?).  You also make a great point on those who check once-twice a day.. I'm one of those who checks every time they've been away from the computer for a while, which translates to 5-6 times a day.. so that's where I'm coming from.

I do recall when moderation was more strict than it is now, I think it's just that when I come here from other sites.. this one is the most strict.. and I often see plain insulting responses regarding moderation.  I realize mods aren't here to be 'friends' exactly, but I always think it turns people away when I see a newbie post a poll and he gets the third degree from about 6 people, then a mod.  Granted yes, he should read the rules first.. but that's what I meant by "spam against spam".  There's often 1 ignorantly innocent post, and then 5 spam posts such as "poll." "can you say 'banned'?"  "poll anyone?"  "poll!"

Billy and Rick I know are beyond anyone's control so nobody can be blamed.. it just seemed more rich to me when they were more involved.

I think those technical problems in 2003 also had a huge affect on my views of PGC.  It just became unreliable.  So often I'd come here first to see the page wont load after numerous attempts, and I'd wander somewhere else.  Eventually, I started wandering before coming here.  With the amount of ads, I couldn't help but wonder why there wasn't a better or more capable server to prevent all of the technicalities from happening.  On the bright side, it does seem like those are resolved, so i hope it stays that way.

I do look forward to a redesign, and I want to thank you again for your post... it actually convinced me there's still some good heart in this site, and I will in fact continue visiting because of that alone.

Thanks again, Bloodworth!  

[Bloodworth]

I think your "spam against spam" complaint is actually the biggest problem with the forums rather than our own moderation.  I admit, I try to be as big of a jerk as possible when people post just to advertise, but I've seen people get reamed by other posters when I had no problems with the post at all.  Perhaps it's time for an update to that announcement...

[KDR_11k]

If you're still using IE be happy you only visited "friendly" pages like PGC. If you were to open a hostile page, now that wouldn't just mean an ad will get on your nerves but it can also mean you will always get popup ads, all your keystrokes are recorded, half of your search requests will be redirected to a porn site and your computer will be turned into a spam relay. Or it just kills your internet connection permanently until you format your harddrive.  Okay, most virii only do two or three things out of that list, but don't say you haven't been warned. As for the majority using IE, well, their problem. That's why some virii get such a high distribution (and to a certain extend why the Half-Life 2 sourcecode was stolen). All the barbed wire in the world won't help you if you don't close the backdoor first.

[Bloodworth]

...yeah, we can stop talking about IE now...see my last post

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I've been visiting PGC and Nintendojo since 1999 (has it been that long?).  I'm inclined to say PGC has been the most stable over the years, mostly because I've seen Nintendojo have unnecessarily long "dead" periods due to the loss and gain of writing staff, and their reviews [used to] come out later than others'.

Then there's Nintendorks, who's probably had the longest down time (and slowest recovery) of any site.  News is slow, reviews are slow, but they make up for that with sheer hilarity (mature content!), honesty (professionalism goes out the window, cuz most of the time you realize it's not necessary), practicallity in their articles, short or long.  It makes me smile, unnaturally (like one particular "performance" drug advertised on tv).

Tendobox was great too.  They're no longer with us.

[DrZoidberg]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
I think your "spam against spam" complaint is actually the biggest problem with the forums rather than our own moderation.  I admit, I try to be as big of a jerk as possible when people post just to advertise, but I've seen people get reamed by other posters when I had no problems with the post at all.  Perhaps it's time for an update to that announcement...

i know i'm part of that problem and i'll try and tone it down lest i be ban'd, atleast i allways report threads i consider violating the rules

i'm sorry ;__;, it just seems that alot of the good posters seem to have gone and have been replaced by 'gamefaqs'esque posters.. oh i don't know, the PGC forum comunity needs alot of work too much arguing, far too much.

[Infernal Monkey]

Potential President of Earth: "My opponent DrZoidberg makes some very valid points, but I must say I agree with everything he says!"
Seems every thread in GC General turns into an Ozzy Ozzbourne head-biting drama episode these days, which is why I've been slowly fading away from that section. It's either (rather boring) 'fights' between a few, or 'lol i agree im from gamefaqs i wan help with my gamecube i dropped it out the window it dun work now!!!11' type posts. There's no true discussion anymore.

As for the actual main site itself, I have no problems. News, reviews, previews of high quality. I'm more tired of the constant bitching about the adverts than the ads themselves by this point. It's a FREE site, PGC needs those adverts.  

[RickPowers]

Quote
And I miss hearing Rick Powers tease at all the upcoming goods he knows that we don't.

Heh ... Like Dan said, "real life" has pretty much invaded in ways I had never expected it to.  Deciding to go back to school was incredibly difficult, but has been very rewarding thus far.  But that doesn't mean that I'm not hearing the occasional tidbit here and there.  For example, I'm sure lots of you are wondering if Nintendo's next home console will be backwards compatible or not ...  

[Bloodworth]

Yeah, we need a new stay at home mom for PGC.  I'll do it if anyone has $30,000 a year to spare.

[mouse_clicker]

Quote
For example, I'm sure lots of you are wondering if Nintendo's next home console will be backwards compatible or not ...

=O

Honestly, how could anyone hate you, Rick?

[Pale]

I think the key to making these forums rock is to really amplify the use of the talkback threads.  We saw it take off when the news script was broken and you had to go to the forums to read stories.  How bout a /. esque response system in the next incarnation of PGC?  It would be very cool in my opinion.  No other Nintendo sites really do it...  Keep it moderated, and it will be good.  =)

[KnowsNothing]

Well, I apologize if I was a contibutor to the "spam-against-spam" thing that's been happening.  I try to keep myself from doing it, and I don't really do it that often, but I realize that I have contributed in the past and for that I apologize.

Quote
it just seems that alot of the good posters seem to have gone and have been replaced by 'gamefaqs'esque posters..

I agree that there are a few intelligent posters who have left, and that there is a sudden onslaught of spammers such as myself, but i don't think saying they 'replaced' them is really correct.  We still have many people capable of intelligent conversation, the only problem is that they get drowned out by the "n00bz."  And once a noob posts, everybody seems to react flame to that and not respond to the person a few posts above that's trying to start a discussion.

Quote
I'm more tired of the constant bitching about the adverts than the ads themselves by this point. It's a FREE site, PGC needs those adverts.

Agreed.  the advertisment "problem" (i don't think there even *is* a problem) has been brought up too many times to count, and the answer is the same each time.  By now, instead of giving the real reason, save some energy and say the quote Grey Ninja used to say, "There's no use helping those who can't help themselves."  (and I realize this quote only works under certain circumstances, but this is certainly one of them).  I don't want to get a whole discussion about this, though, so I won't even mention the obvious solutions.

I haven't been a in the PGC communinty for a very long time, so I don't even know some of the obstacles they have overcome.  But I do know that on PGC's fifth birthday I realized that this site was a homemade fan-site that survived long after the others did, and it was because of the incredible staff and their never-fluctuating dedication to their fans.  We have to realize that PGC is doing this for free, and providing us with this site for free.  The staff can't make a living out of this.  They need to work and do something outside of PGC, and some people are too ignorant to understand that.  Rick went to school.  Congrats, Rick, I have no doubt that it was the right decision to make.  

Of course, now I'm going on this ridiculously stupid rant that I'm not sure is even comprehendable or not.  

So to that I say:  MC, you broke the internet.  Way to go.  (please edit you post kplzthx)

 

[mouse_clicker]

If I had a dime for every thing I had to do for you, KN, I'd have 10 cents.  

[Ian Sane]

"it just seems that alot of the good posters seem to have gone and have been replaced by 'gamefaqs'esque posters.. oh i don't know, the PGC forum comunity needs alot of work"

The "quality" of the discussions in the forums is based on a lot of factors beyond the site's control.  I've been on the forum for about three years now and the situation has ranged from times where nearly every post has the thought and professionalism of an editorial to times where everything is dull, goofy and frequently off-topic.  It depends on who is on the forums at the time and what's going on with Nintendo that's worth talking about.

Forum "regulars" are constantly coming and going.  I've noticed that often someone will join the boards and be involved in every discussion for six months to a year only to suddenly disappear.  Since the regulars are always changing sometimes you're going to see a group of regulars that provide incredible discussion and sometimes you're not.  It also seems that if someone who posts here is really good they go off and start their own (often short-lived) site.

And of course sometimes there just aren't interesting things to talk about.  I'd say that right now there isn't too much to talk about but that will pick up around E3.  Things for example were more interesting when the DS was announced because it triggered a lot of discussion.  If you don't like the forum situation right now come back six months before the N5 launches.  The amount of things to talk about then will be huge.

[vudu]

Quote
How bout a /. esque response system in the next incarnation of PGC?

please forgive my ignorance, but can you please explain.

[Bill Aurion]

*so I was wrong...Go me for taking everything so literally * ------v

[mouse_clicker]

PaleZer0 is talking about Slashdot- users at Slashdot can post their thoughts on every article posted. I personally love it, but I think PGC's Talkback thread serves the same purpose, just instead of the comment being in the news story itself, it's linked to in the forums from the article.

[Termin8Anakin]

I like these forums.

Sure it's not the lively place it once was, but you can't blame the people that run PGC nor the posters can you?
It's OUR life GOODAMMIT! >=P

The one thing that keeps me here is the familiarity, and I'm sure it's the same with a lot of people, plus the fact that there are people here you know too.
Do you remember when us Aussies would talk 24/7 on whatever in our little Aussie thread? Well, since the introduction of MSN into our lives, nearly all discussion has moved there. Anything else is said in the threads, since not all of us are on at the same time.
I've met a lot of cool people here, and I can safely say to my parents that the people I'm talking to online (even though I've never met most of them) are my close friends, instead of potential rapists and drug dealers and axe murderers like they think (although I do worry about Bill's perverted male fantasies ).

Sure there are other forums, but when I want to talk Nintendo, the PGC forums is where I go. Since this is its purpose. It was the first one I joined (bar IGN and their stupid Insider -only boards), and I come here only cause I don't want to repeat the same "" replies at any countless other forums when something big happens. Two is enough for me (PGC and the Gamingforce Forums).

If you wanna cry about your girlfriend leaving you or your suicidal attempts and how sh*tty you feel, go to GFF or something. I go there too, mainly for that reason - and because of my journal.
Sure, a lot of veteran posters have left and others don't spend as much time here as they used to, but I'm still here. As long as people obey the rules, everyone has fun. And as long as people talk in some capacity of civilized conversation that actually adds to discussion, then all is good.
Remember, you can get banned at GFF too.
If you don't like any of these things, then go to the gamefaq forums where you belong, and crap out your spam there. We're not interested in penis enlargers, $1000000-per-day scams or "I Like Girls.......Discuss" threads.  

[BigJim]

I'm at a crossroads myself. I don't think PGC or its forums are my quandary these days.

I have, hopefully only for the time being, fallen out of the passion of gaming. This generation may only be at its mid-life, but it already *feels* like a lull period to me, and I'm trapped waiting ever so patiently for news about the next generation to get me excited again. Sadly it's still 2 years away.

For me this lack of excitement seems to show itself in a lot of ways. Visitors even in this thread have mentioned not having much to talk about. Not much news-worthy things going on. And the discussions that are extensive tend to be debates about what Nintendo does right or wrong, online gaming, or whatever. It's the same thing over and over again. Everybody has an opinion and nobody wants to hear that the game market is bigger than they are.

Probably the worst evidence of my falling passion is that I see the lineup for the year and I'm *barely* tingled at the prospect of the DS. I see Zelda and Metroid in the pipeline, but for whatever reason I can't get excited about those games.

Perhaps I just need to shut up and pop in some classics to remind me of why I loved the business so much.

[Termin8Anakin]

E3 is a month away. A month too far still, but it is coming. I'd stick around.