Topic: New North American (NPD) Sales Thread

[Ian Sane]

"I don't know why people are ripping on it's single player."

It's becauseit's the exact same single player as the GBA game.  We all assumed Nintendo was making a brand new game and instead they gave us a port and to make it worse they never stated that it was a port.

[mouse_clicker]

WarioWare GC, in my opinion, is at least as good a party game as SSBM. Put it's primarily a multiplayer game, so of course people are going to rag on its single player- it happened with SSBM, it happened with Crystal Chronicles, and it'll probably happen with 4 swords.

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It's becauseit's the exact same single player as the GBA game. We all assumed Nintendo was making a brand new game and instead they gave us a port and to make it worse they never stated that it was a port.

The single player was added because they pretty much had to- the multiplayer is the real meat of the game and it's completely different. You've played it, right Ian?

[Ian Sane]

"The single player was added because they pretty much had to- the multiplayer is the real meat of the game and it's completely different."

Yeah I know.  I just assumed they would have made new microgames for the single player mode.  The Nintendo of ten years ago would never have done a lazy cut 'n' paste job with the single player.

[mouse_clicker]

Have you played the multiplayer? It's chocked FULL of new microgames! Come on, Ian!

[Ian Sane]

"Have you played the multiplayer? It's chocked FULL of new microgames! Come on, Ian!"

By that logic than A Link to the Past for the GBA is new game.  All I'm saying is that it should be 100% new microgames for both single player and multiplayer.  That's all.

If Metroid Prime 2 turned out to be the same as Metroid Prime 1 except for the multiplayer would you consider that acceptable?

[mouse_clicker]

Bad analogies because in both LttP and MP2 the singleplayer is the main portion of the game with the multiplayer being the secondary feature. With WarioWare it's the exact opposite- the multiplayer is the main portion of the game with the singleplayer being the secondary feature. It would be like, for example, Metroid Prime 3's singleplayer being entirely different from Metroid Prime 2's, but having the same multiplayer. Would you really feel so cheated then?

Have you played WarioWare's multiplayer?

[Ian Sane]

"It would be like, for example, Metroid Prime 3's singleplayer being entirely different from Metroid Prime 2's, but having the same multiplayer. Would you really feel so cheated then?"

Not cheated per say but disappointed.  I would consider that lazy and it would irritate me in the same way Nintendo's constant rehashing of the same multiplayer in all of their GBA Mario games does.

To me though a unique single player is more important.  Even if a game is designed more for multiplayer there's always going to be more time spend playing alone than playing with friends.  So thus if multiplayer is all that's new I wouldn't consider the game worth purchasing.  If you own the GBA game and don't constantly have friends over Warioware GC is a waste of money.  And that right there explains why the Cube game didn't sell as well.

I actually haven't played the GC version because I don't own it and I just explained why I didn't buy it.  Remember this topic is about why it didn't sell that well not whether or not it's any good.  

[mouse_clicker]

Well, WarioWare is the opposite of those games- it's primarily a multiplayer game and secondarily a singleplayer game. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about that.

And it didn't sell well because of several reasons- no advertising, various misconceptions (tied in to lack of advertising), and it's a niche game. Regardless of how well it sold, play the game- if you liked WarioWare on the GBA at all you'll love it. Besides, you're not really in a position to be downplaying a game you haven't played at all.  

[Perfect Cell]

It was Konami's responsibility to advertise the game. They didn't. End of discussion.



It wasnt Konamis responsibility. It was Nintendos.  Does Konami care if it bombs? No. Should Nintendo. Yes.  

[Darc Requiem]

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Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
It was Konami's responsibility to advertise the game. They didn't. End of discussion.



It wasnt Konamis responsibility. It was Nintendos.  Does Konami care if it bombs? No. Should Nintendo. Yes.

You know what Cell, I give up. Yeah its Nintendo's fault. Nintendo should provide the development team, fund, adverstise all 3rd party products. I mean its dawned on me. It makes perfect sense. That way Nintendo can run themselves out of business hemorraghing millions while the 3rd parties make money for doing nothing. Yeah brilliant, I mean its working so well for Microsoft. I mean they are just as far behind Sony as Nintendo but its still the best way. Okay enough with the sarcasm, I'm sorry but your standpoint is ridiculous.

Darc Requiem

[mouse_clicker]

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It wasnt Konamis responsibility. It was Nintendos. Does Konami care if it bombs? No. Should Nintendo. Yes.

What flawed logic! Nintendo is hurt by EVERY 3rd party game that bombs on the Gamecube- does that mean Nintendo should advertise ALL of them? It's the publisher's duty to advertise a game, and Konami published Twin Snakes, not Nintendo.

[odifiend]

While I agree that it was Konami's responsibility, why could nintendo not have (barring Konami's refusal, of course) put the two seconds of gameplay in one of their "who are you" commercials that list several games?  The way I understand it, is that Nintendo pushed to get this game on GCN.  Why not ensure that the return was worth all their trouble?  Miyamoto and former 2nd party Silicon Kngihts worked on the title for months.  As far as I'm concerned the resources they invested would be worth at least one ad.

[Perfect Cell]

What flawed logic! Nintendo is hurt by EVERY 3rd party game that bombs on the Gamecube- does that mean Nintendo should advertise ALL of them? It's the publisher's duty to advertise a game, and Konami published Twin Snakes, not Nintendo.




Its also a Gamecube, Exclusive, a reason for people to purchase Nintendos system. Nintendo had more to loose but hey, its a Mature Title, why advertise it?  Nintendo gives EA Advertising, when EA is the biggest Third Party, and doesnt need the advertising.

Sometimes i do think Nintendo purposely hurts itself by forcing the kiddy image

[KDR_11k]

But EA are threatening to leave the Gamecube and they practically own the market. I think you'll agree that losing EA would be a BIG loss.

[Darc Requiem]

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Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
What flawed logic! Nintendo is hurt by EVERY 3rd party game that bombs on the Gamecube- does that mean Nintendo should advertise ALL of them? It's the publisher's duty to advertise a game, and Konami published Twin Snakes, not Nintendo.




Its also a Gamecube, Exclusive, a reason for people to purchase Nintendos system. Nintendo had more to loose but hey, its a Mature Title, why advertise it?  Nintendo gives EA Advertising, when EA is the biggest Third Party, and doesnt need the advertising.

Sometimes i do think Nintendo purposely hurts itself by forcing the kiddy image

What does EA has to do with Twin Snakes. EA actually devotes its own money and development houses to its GC titles. I could have sworn in a previous post I said and I'll quote myself "If Konami had developed the game themselves I'd agree with you." Since EA is the largest developer of sports games and gives the Gamecube its full support of course Nintendo is willing to chip in on the advertising. Konami has done nothing at all for GC. Nintendo bent over backwards to work around Konami and Kojima's schedule and all they had to do is advertise the damned game.

This Twin Snakes....I love the game but its PS1 game. I mean the graphics are improved, there a few MGS2 gameplay additions but its MGS1. I could sorta see your point of view if this was MGS3 exclusive to Gamecube but it isn't. This is an enjoyable rethread of a game most gamers have already played. This isn't a game like a Final Fantasy 12 or even an exclusive GTA game that will get PS2 owners and casual gamers everywhere to run out and pick up a Cube.

Darc Requiem

[Ymeegod]

Why should they advertise for a game that still wouldn't sell?  Look at Capcom's sales with VJ and it's multi-million dollar ad budget.

And someone said ads don't cost much?  LOL,  it only costs $18, 000 a pop for a 30-second ad during a primetime-tv show ;0 (that's a rough figure since it varies).

Secondly, why would Konami care?  Like alot of people saying, but I make it clear.

Nintendo went out of it's way to get MG on the GC because of it's selling power just like it did with Final Fantasy, neither square-enix nor Konami give a rats ass about a game they didn't fund to begin with--to them it's free money so why waste it on ads.

Konami basically leased out it's name just like Nintendo did with the Zelda series back in the day.  

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[Mario]

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Look at Capcom's sales with VJ and it's multi-million dollar ad budget.

Yeah, people actually bought the game, over 100,000 of them. You're insane if you think that VJ would have sold that well without advertising, and it was hardly a "multi-million dollar" ad budget, they had a few commercials for it, that's it, the end.

[Ymeegod]

"Yeah, people actually bought the game, over 100,000 of them. You're insane if you think that VJ would have sold that well without advertising"

LOL--  100K is a joke though, given the rating.

Two, Capcom stated the pricing for marketing in the US.  Three weeks of ads isn't cheap.  Hell Nintendo spent 100 Million for 8 weeks (Nov/DEC) push.  

[mouse_clicker]

Konami PUBLISHES, Konami ADVERTISES. Why is this discussion still going?

[nolimit19]

has konami advertised for past metal gear games??? all i know is that you can definitely see a difference in sales numbers when good advertising happens. FF:CC was the number one selling game for a month and i personally think the game kind of sucks....Twin snakes, on the other hand, is pretty awesome and has bombed like hiroshima. if konami doesnt care how their game sells, nintendo should because this will just perpetuate all the stereo types surronding the cube owners.... = less GOOD 3rd party support.

[couchmonkey]

I think the responsibility lies with Nintendo in as far as Nintendo seems to be the company that tried to get the deal in place, and Nintendo stood to benefit the most, so the Nintendo should have had a plan in place for marketing the game.  I agree that Nintendo shouldn't be required to advertise 3rd party products, but if it's making deals for exclusive game releases, Nintendo has a vested interest in marketing the game.  

Of course Konami has an interest too, and I think some of the responsibility lies with Konami, because it probably could have made a lot more money from the deal if it had spent some cash on advertising.  I think the game's sales could easily be near half a million units with proper marketing.

Anyway, I don't think placing blame now does any good.  If Nintendo does deals like this in the future, I think it should consider putting a marketing plan in place from the start that requires the third party to show a certain amount of support for the game in terms of advertising dollars, and Nintendo could agree to match whatever the third party spends.  I think it's the responsibility of both parties to make the game sell.  Nintendo wants it to drive hardware sales and show people the kinds of games the system is capable of, and the third parties (should) want to make money from the game.

[Ian Sane]

"has konami advertised for past metal gear games???"

They sure have.  I saw quite a lot of commercials for MGS2 for the PS2 (all giving the impression that you play as Snake the whole time ) and when MGS2 came out for the Xbox I saw an ad for it practically every day.  Maybe Sony and MS had something to do with those ads but the point is those games had ads everywhere and Twin Snakes had virtually none.

[BigHit30]

NPD numbers are independent and unbiased so what they say, not MS, Sony, or Nintendo, is true.

[joeamis]

I agree with Couchmonkey.  And why wouldn't Konami give the impression that you play with Snake the whole time?  Playing as Raiden was supposed to be a secret...  I actually saw alot of advertising for Wario Ware GC myself on tv, online, magazines, etc.

[Darc Requiem]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"has konami advertised for past metal gear games???"

They sure have.  I saw quite a lot of commercials for MGS2 for the PS2 (all giving the impression that you play as Snake the whole time ) and when MGS2 came out for the Xbox I saw an ad for it practically every day.  Maybe Sony and MS had something to do with those ads but the point is those games had ads everywhere and Twin Snakes had virtually none.

Thank you Ian. Thats all that had to be said. I've harped on it before in this thread. Hell I'll do it again. Konami was basically handed a completed game free of charge. All they had to do with was publish and advertise it. I had completely forgotten about the Substance ads...they were quite funny. Anyway the point is if they can advertise Substance on X-box, they should have done the same for Twin Snakes. Those Substance ads were on constantly at least for a few weeks.

Darc Requiem