Author Topic: SK developing next Zelda  (Read 16339 times)

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Offline ThePerm

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2004, 06:50:42 PM »
hmmm a lin kto the present..oot link travels to mdern time by accident ala heman..and the beastmaster...
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Offline Mannypon

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2004, 07:36:26 PM »
I was just thinking the same thing professional 666, I think the graphical style in ff:cc is as close to realism as the zelda series will ever get.  The background graphics for towns and water look great, perfect mix of realism and fantasy.  I would love to see a zelda game with graphics to that extent.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2004, 08:46:52 PM »
I hear ya.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2004, 06:29:23 AM »
WesDawg if you have to include "it would probably be hated by all" with your game idea maybe it's not a good idea.  This is reminding me of that crappy third Planet of the Apes movie where the apes travel back in time to modern times.  I believe it was Escape From the Planet of the Apes.  Surprisingly it's followup is EVEN WORSE and I've never seen the fifth film for fear of going insane.

Getting back on topic I agree that FF:CC has a style that would fit Zelda pretty well.  It's lighthearted yet the graphics are very nice to look at and what's supposed to be scary and dark looks scary and dark.  Plus I find that the graphics have more depth to them.  Cel-shaded graphics tend to look flat to me like I'm watching someone travel the world instead of travelling it myself.

"Despite the fact that I think the Zelda series looks better as a realistic game i think that the WW would have looked stupid as a realistic game. I mean its not exactly normal to see wind, which was very important to the game, not to mention it would be ridiculous to see a talking boat."

Agreed though I think wind could have been done without cel-shading.  Wind is "seen" in real life by particles it blows around and that's easy to show with literally showing it.  Wind in the hair for example works pretty well.  However a talking boat would have looked stupid in any other style as would Link's super fun happy dance.  Of course I absolutely hated BOTH of those elements and thought they were very non-Zelda like.  How interesting that the stuff that required cel-shading is all traditionally non-Zelda like (facial expressions, incredibly goofy looking moblins).

Offline CaseyRyback

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2004, 07:16:57 AM »
if they do a realistic Zelda sales will shoot through the roof and console fanboys will be forcd to shut up about how kiddy Zelda is.

Personally I would rather see SK develop the next Zone of Enders

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2004, 07:56:03 AM »
About the whole style debate: There are concept drawings of Link. They match up with any version of Zelda except for WW. I think they should have tried to make WW look like those concept drawings, but then I have doubts that's possible with GC hardware.
I also think that the levels themselves are a bit limited in colors. Primarily grey/green/brown and a bit of red where there's lava. Those are colors usually associated with Quake!
BTW, anyone else think Link went through the same progression as Guybrush Threepwood? I mean, wasn't that guy brown haired in 1 and 2?

Djunknown: Well, why doesn't that happen with vendors selling "mature" games to minors?

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Offline Mannypon

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2004, 08:22:24 AM »
kdr sorry if I aint in the know but my point went across and thats all that really matters to me.  I'll be sure to look up anything I might have doubts on in the future.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2004, 08:50:21 AM »
"BTW, anyone else think Link went through the same progression as Guybrush Threepwood? I mean, wasn't that guy brown haired in 1 and 2?"

Yeah he debuted the blonde hair in Ocarina of Time.  However since there's been by my count four different Links (I'm not sure who the Oracles guy is) it seems perfectly normal for some of them to have brown hair and others to have blonde.  They all have slightly different costumes as well.

Offline odifiend

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2004, 09:48:25 AM »
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Well, why doesn't that happen with vendors selling "mature" games to minors?

Well, first of all the way the public (America anyway) sees pornography and video games is just completely different.  Everyone beleives that pornography is more immediately damaging to a child than a game however true that may be.  Also it is a federal and established law that no one under age 18 can buy pornography.  Video games only recently having the graphical capabilities to traumatize with gore and sex, have been mostly seen as games and have been sold without a second thought.
The reason the Supreme Court turned the restriction on Manhunt and GTA down was because it is actually a state government's job to do that- that is why you see such laws in California.  Checks and balances of US govt.  As for why vendors aren't punished is that either the state they live in doesn't care or they aren't strict enough.

If Link is always different, why can't he be black or hispanic, or zora or goron?  Is the Triforce racist?  I call for Affirmative Action !  Seriously though if Miyamoto and Aunomora?~(man I can never remember his name) believe each Link is different, let's see them put their money where their mouth is.
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Offline Rich

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2004, 09:59:57 AM »
Do you really care what color link is? I never understand why some people believe that color matters. Link has always been white with his little green tunic. That is the link as we know him, if Nintendo made him black do you really think that he would look like Link. Anyway I thought Link's grandma looked a bit hispanic. maybe link is a quarter Mexican or Spanish.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2004, 10:07:51 AM »
"If Link is always different, why can't he be black or hispanic, or zora or goron? Is the Triforce racist? I call for Affirmative Action"

Well I assume that according to prophesies and whatnot he has to be a Hylian.  Judging by the games Hylians all have white skin and pointy ears.  They're like the elves in Lord or the Rings.  Since Hylian's are not humans it's possible that they only have one skin colour.

Offline odifiend

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2004, 10:12:59 AM »
Actually I mentioned race because in Eternal Darkness, a bunch of diverse people were used to tell the story.  I liked the way it came out and Silicon Knights developped it.  But I was mostly joking above.  Still I can't really respect the idea that all Links are different yet they all look the same.  I don't know to me it's nonsensical, especially with a lot of other different species living in Hyrule.  It would be cool (if Eternal Darkness didn't already cover it) if you could be a Link in different times in a game (like you could be controlling the Link that failed to return in the beginning of WW, then after that's over control another one).
I wouldn't give a flying ______ what color Link was if it was the same Link the whole time.  
Yeah Rich, I get what you're saying about being able to recognize the franchise.

Dang, Ian, that is a really good point.  I never even noticed that Hylians were white.  And I guess the prophecies could take care of the no Goron or Zora heroes.  At least we had the masks in MM .
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Offline Don'tHate742

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2004, 10:20:47 AM »
Ya...why mess up the design anyway? They need to focus on the gameplay and how they reveal the new game elements. In WW, if they didn't show me the map with all the squares first and let me explore, then I would of loved it. I wouldn't have known squat, and that's how I want it. But since I found out my restrictions early it ruined the sense of exploring(not completely). I wish they didn't show you anything and the only way you could complete your map was using bait to fish. Also, when you hit a border you should be able to loop around to the otherside that way it isn't so obvious a restriction.

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Offline nemo_83

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2004, 10:24:16 AM »
Zelda's gameplay didn't change when it went to 3d.  The graphics did and thus the level of control over the character became more complicated and depthened just as for example the new Castlevania on PS2 though lacking most of the depth of 2d Castelvanias it depthens the combat.  There is a middle ground that Konami must reach in this case.

With Zelda the series is traditionally played in three quarters view just as most landscapes are painted from a three quarters view with a high horizon which flatens things making them more graphic.  The reason is because for most reasons this view is best, not only asthetically, but also in offering freedom in character control.  With WW the camera system was up to the player thus the view was nolonger set behind the character giving only a low horizon line view or a close top down view offering little in seeing the surroundings.  I believe Nintendo listened to complaints about camera view needing to be an option as many of us realized that most of the time three quarters vantage point offers alot more except in some cases when you can easily move the camera yourself.  So you can choose a more 2d profile view that really shows how 2d vs 3d is not really a fight of whether it really is 2d or 3d, but rather whether the view is 2d or 3d.

As far as WW, Oot, and LttP being related in design I will say that the series has always been all over the map as far as how the games look.  I felt that OoT wanted to be cel shaded like WW so that the character designs in the game (and the ones from the old games that didn't make it into OoT because they didn't fit at all with the asthetics) would fit the appearance of the game.  Also cel shading's flatness is very true to how we see in 2d shades which is remenescent of old school 2d graphics like in LttP.  

Mario 64 was a great game; amazing how people have selective hearing, but it didn't play like a 2d Mario because Nintendo was new the game of 3d.  I believe now; just now, that Nintendo is seeing how supperior 2d is to 3d in offering accessable views rather than gameplay that must be riged up to get the player to roam fully in 3d rather than taking a path.  Once again let me say that Zelda was always more lending to a 3d engine with a view that was although 2d, it was also able to offer a 3d illusionistic experience.  I don't believe N64 had the power to do a 3d Zelda.

Before I go I want to say, that stuff about Nintendo not wanting to do a realistic Zelda because it would have glitches is ridiculous.  Just look at Metroid, which I also hope will become cel shaded (similar to Ico).  What's going on is Nintendo is being economical rather than ambitious these days.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2004, 10:24:31 AM »
Quote

Still I can't really respect the idea that all Links are different yet they all look the same.


While each Link is technically different, you can view them all as embodying the same spirit. Hence the striking similarity in appearance.

Quote

Before I go I want to say, that stuff about Nintendo not wanting to do a realistic Zelda because it would have glitches is ridiculous. Just look at Metroid, which I also hope will become cel shaded (similar to Ico).


Ico isn't cel-shaded. It does indeed have a very striking visual style (almost like an oil painting), but I think the only thing in Ico that was cel-shaded was Yorda.

Quote

What's going on is Nintendo is being economical rather than ambitious these days.


Perhpas Nintendo just hasn't gotten around to doing a relealistic Zelda yet- the series will live for a very long time, it's not like Nintendo is restricted in that sense.
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Offline odifiend

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2004, 10:55:56 AM »
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While each Link is technically different, you can view them all as embodying the same spirit. Hence the striking similarity in appearance.


Even if you trust that if people were reincarnated they'd look similar to their previous self,  the fact that the Hylian race remained the same where other races, Zoras (more suitable for a water environment) and Kokiris, evolved, is kind of crazy.  Also in other games that deal with reincarnation, (Crono Cross comes to mind) *begins walking on eggshells, after mentioning a Square game post FFVII*  Crono and Serge look similar enough to know they are of the same spirit but look different enough.  I do get what you are saying though and do understand it myself, but as Miyamoto and crew continue to spin the story, it seems more and more evident that the story was added after the fact, creating loopholes of DBZ proportions .  Whatever... gameplay matters most.  Still with all the loopholes, cinematic SK might have a tough time creating a matching story for their (potential) game.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2004, 11:22:51 AM »
Yeah, and the Zoras evolved into the bird people from Wind Waker in less than 100 years- clearly Zelda's universe doesn't follow ours to the T.

And the stories have always been added after the fact, that's just the way Miyamoto makes games- gameplay first, story second. Really the only two Zeldas I thought had much of a story at all were Majora's Mask and Wind Waker.  
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2004, 11:28:44 AM »
It was a thousand years, not a hundred...But still, that IS a very short time for evolution to take place...
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2004, 11:30:31 AM »
I've heard both, but you're right, 1,000 years is not much better for evolution than 100 years.
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2004, 11:35:22 AM »
I just looked at some past interviews, and I'm not sure even Nintendo knows...

In one such interview, someone(Miyamoto, perhaps) said it was 100 years later, but Eiji Aonuma(the director of Wind Waker) said 1000, I believe...Now I'm confused... O_o
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Offline theRPGFreak

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2004, 11:58:11 AM »
In my opinion, Wind Waker screwed up alot in the OoT World. First off, why do the Korkiri turn into tree folk? Why is the Master Sword in Hyrule Castle? Where did the Temple of Time go? The King of Hyrule never did anything important in OoT. In fact, we never even saw him! So why is he a Chineese boat? Why did Ganon get out of the Evil Realm? I thought he was in a perfect seal! and why did Ganon let himself go like that? He is freakin huge in the game! Sure, I enjoyed WW, and I am alright about the graphics, but I think that the game should not have had any connection with OoT. It just dosen't make sense to me that they would screw with the story line that much. As for SK making a realistic Zelda game, I should be rated Teen without a shout of a doubt.
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2004, 12:18:28 PM »
First off, why do the Korkiri turn into tree folk?

They evolved, just as the Zoras did...

Why is the Master Sword in Hyrule Castle?

Because OoT Link left it with the Hylians when he departed after OoT...The Hylians, in turn, created a shrine for it, and hid it in case it be needed in the future...

Where did the Temple of Time go?

It's been 100-1000 years since OoT...Buildings get demolished, new ones erected, etc...

The King of Hyrule never did anything important in OoT. In fact, we never even saw him! So why is he a Chineese boat?  It's been 100-1000 years!  There's no way it could be the same King from OoT!    And because he's dead, he put his spirit into the boat, that is all...

Why did Ganon get out of the Evil Realm?

Really the only thing that wasn't fully answered...I think it is perhaps that the Master Sword lost it's power over the long period of time, allowing Ganon to break free...Or maybe he wasn't sealed properly in the first place(think back to the ending of OoT...)  
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Offline theRPGFreak

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2004, 12:27:21 PM »
You have good ideas, but not good enough. First off, the Temple of Time would not get demolished, no offense but that is the stupidest thing that I have ever heard in my life, and about Ganon getting free, the whole point of the second half of OoT was to build a perfect seal. Also, the Master Sword lost its power because Ganon killed the two sages who were parying to give it power. He was not at two places at once!  
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Offline theRPGFreak

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2004, 12:30:11 PM »
Something else just hit me! At the end of OoT, Zelda told Link to reseal the Master Sword into the Door of Time. He never left it with the Hylians.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:SK developing next Zelda
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2004, 12:35:02 PM »
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the whole point of the second half of OoT was to build a perfect seal.


Obviously it wasn't perfect, considering Ocarina of Time comes first chronologically and nearly every Zelda game afterwards features Ganondorf/Ganon as a villain.
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