Topic: News article assessing Nintendo future, reveals possible hidden agenda of gaming media

[Gamebasher]

I just read a most disturbing newsarticle over on Gamesindustry.biz, a developer orientated news website.

The article details how certain industry commentators speculate, or misinterpretate facts about Nintendo´s plans for the future and to the peril of Nintendo itself. A type of negative, inductive opinion which ends up being construed as actual situation which is then released to the newsmedia as "news fact". Recently this type of negative game news reporting lowered the value of NCL company stocks, with Nintendo PR staff quick to deny the allegations of it alltogether. They talked their stock down! Before I continue, I will include the link to that news article:

www.gamesindustry.biz (click under newsarticle "Opinion: Speculation over Nintendo's future reveals ugly truths about gaming media")

Read the article, and learn more about these so-called industry commentators who if not countered by carefull measures from the side of Nintendo´s PR department, may wind up doing more bad than good to mighty Ninty. Good and sound marketing afterall is the lifeblood of any company seeking to stay afloat in todays hectic videogame industry.

One invariably comes to think that to these industry commentators, the next consolewar will be fought between Sony and Microsoft alone! To them it is "better" if Nintendo goes the way of SEGA and become a software oriented developer alone. This all comes on top of months of negative talk about Nintendo´s poor E3 showing, EDGE magazine staff at E3 lamenting same and openly saying that the company was in dire waters etc. etc. and now what that "Nintendo official" secretly said about the company´s chances at competing with the two other consolemakers.

But Nintendo have already stated that the N5 will be shown to the public, at E3 2005. So why are they so busy talking about Nintendo "doing a SEGA"?

In what way did SONY destroy SEGA´s most excellent Dreamcast console? By talking the thing out of existence, right! Much like some smart analyst in the stockmarket can talk other company stock down! In SEGA ´s case people believed, because of SEGA´s inability to compete with the PS2 hype and combat piracy. But it took over a year for the PS2 game library to catch up with the DC games library, and it´s 1. gen graphics were poor in comparison with the DC 1. gen graphics. So should these apparently same type of people be allowed to sit and talk Nintendo down too? Nintendo is the oldest, best, and most experienced of the three consolemakers. So if there is only room for two, it is certainly Microsoft that´s going out if any will!! Be certain that Nintendo can and will secure that!!!

Gamebasher.
   

[vudu]

it's a nice article.  for those too lazy to follow gamebasher's instructions, here's a direct link.

Opinion: Speculation over Nintendo's future reveals ugly truths about gaming media

nothing really new in the article, but it sums up everything quite nicely--quotes were taken out of context and the media jumped on the chance to "confirm" that nintendo is dropping out of the hardware business.  for shame.  ::shakes finger at the media::

[Ian Sane]

I've too have noticed a significant bias against Nintendo from the gaming media.  It almost seems like they WANT Nintendo to fail.  They want them to go third party.  And really it kind of makes sense to want that.

The NES is perhaps the best console of all time.  It had everything: a huge variety of third party games and some amazing first party games.  Aside from Sega and Namco games if you owned an NES you didn't miss out on anything.  For the most part this continued with the SNES.  However now Nintendo is no longer on top so those third party and first party games are on different consoles.  Let's face it if you want to play the latest game from a series that started on the NES you have to own a PS2 and a Gamecube.  That's expensive and a pain.  The ideal situation is to have all of those games on the same console.

There are only two ways that will happen.  Either Nintendo has to become number 1 again and thus get back all of the third party support or they have drop out of the console wars and go third party.  Right now the second option seems more likely.  So thus the gaming media (and a lot of gamers in general) deep down wants Nintendo to go third party so they can have all the games they used to play back on one console.

Of course all of these people fail to realize that without "real" game companies like Sega and Nintendo having a major effect on the console wars the industry will become really stagnant.

[thecubedcanuck]

"Of course all of these people fail to realize that without "real" game companies like Sega and Nintendo having a major effect on the console wars the industry will become really stagnant. "

I disagree with this statement 100%.
As far as many people are concerned SEGA and NIN are the ones who have gone stagnent. I am not sure if NIN games would sell any better as third party titles, they just dont appeal to the majority of gamers anymore.

[Ian Sane]

"As far as many people are concerned SEGA and NIN are the ones who have gone stagnent."

As opposed to who?  Sony and MS aren't exactly innovating the industry.  The Microsoft's big Xbox game is an FPS. WOWEE!

Besides it doesn't matter what "the majority" thinks.  My whole arguement is that the people that want Nintendo to go third party don't realize their importance.

I will agree that by the super high standards everyone holds them to Nintendo has gotten somewhat stagnant.  But they still bust out some crazy new stuff, just not as often as before.  They're still more innovative than the other console makers.

[Bill Aurion]

Hah!  And what innovation has either Sony or Microsoft done?

[Inkwell]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
Hah!  And what innovation has either Sony or Microsoft done?

What has Nintendo done exactly that so innovative this generation? If anything Sony and Microsoft seem to be trying to bring something to console gaming, most of Nintendo's effort have gone towards thier handheld.

Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
" I am not sure if NIN games would sell any better as third party titles, they just dont appeal to the majority of gamers anymore.

I kinda agree with this, NIN are not seen as the "it" thing anymore. That probably the reason why most the gaming media seem to put as little ethusiam (sp?) behind them.  NIN is like VHS, it still there but does it really compare to DVD (Sony or MS)...

 

[mouse_clicker]

You're kidding, right Inkwell? I'll admit Sony's maturing as a developer, but they've hardly done anything innovative beyond the EyeToy. Their games are a micture of genre cliches that they simply do a little bit better than most other developers. Certainly nothing to write home about. And Microsoft has juist plain bought whatever they can't make themselves, which is just about everything. The titles I consider most innovative on the XBox aren't even associated with MS in anyway, besides the fact that MS bought their exclusivity. Nintendo, on the other hand, has continuously experiment with new gameplay and artistic ideas. In fact, most of the complains people have with games like, say, Super Mario Sunshine is that they're too different than their predecessors and would rather Nintendo stick to the proven formula. Really the only console series that has remained completely unchanged is Mario Party, which of course is always singled out in debates like these. The bottom line is you quite simply cannot claim MS and Sony have been innovating at all while Nintendo hasn't. I don't care if it's your opinion, it's a grossly misinformed one.

Quote
NIN is like VHS, it still there but does it really compare to DVD (Sony or MS)...

Another bonehead quote from you, Inkwell. The media is attacking Nintendo so much because Nintendo was once the industry leader, and now they're not, despite have an incredibly loyal fanbase. And as we all know, controversy sells news.  

[Ocarina Blue]

The thing is, people don't care for innovation, they care for who does it best. Sony has produced little innovation (I'd say the dual shock controller is an exception), but there's little doubt that the PS2 is the console that's made the biggest impression this generation. Sony haven't produced anything particuarly original, but they've done what they've done well. At the end of the day, it looks like that's what people want.  

[thecubedcanuck]

I never said Sony or MS are innovative, or looked upon as innovative. What I meant was that NIN has become no differant than the others in terms of innovation, especially to the general public. This may not be their fault however, as little is left to innovate, or at least I think so.
IMO NIN isnt flashy enough for the mainstream, and the result isnt a bias as much as it is an ignoring.

[Metaphysical Spirit]

Exactly, what does Sony or MS that is innovative? Sony has new TVs and DVDs and all that good stuff. That's where they are good at in being innovative. With Microsoft it's computers, and well, how to screw people even more. Nintendo is a GAME BASED system only. They put more thought into their games and system more than the other two companies, becuase this is their life. They have been doing it for years, and would get bored of themselves if they didn't try to make things new. Look at Pikman, totally new to the gaming industry. Super Smash Brothers Melee isn't like any other fighting game besides the one for N64. The Wavebird controller sums a lot up, the fact that Nintendo put a lot of thought in their controller when making the GC has a lot to say about it. Also, what about Metriod Prime. People argue if that is really a FPS game, becuase it's soo different. Take the new Zelda game, they are trying to attract people to the new way of Cel Animation (Which is getting really popular, and I think Zelda had a lot to do with that), and like Mouse clicker said about Super Mario Sunshine. They even used different technology that isn't used to much these days with making the GC, and using different discs to avoid piracy. You want to see stagnent, then why did MS and Sony come into the business. I think it's mainly becuase it is a huge industry and makes money and they know they can have a name in it. It's about the business and top charts and money they see, not the games and system itself. Honestly here, Where you guys going with Nintendo not trying to be innovative? It's a big reason why the media harps on them, becuase they try to be different.  

[Ian Sane]

"IMO NIN isnt flashy enough for the mainstream, and the result isnt a bias as much as it is an ignoring."

That's a pretty good choice of words.  "Ignoring" Nintendo is exactly what the mainstream media does and what a lot of rental stores and game stores do.

With the gaming media though I think it's more of a bias.  I mean you can't write about games for a living and ignore a major player like Nintendo.  You have to choose to ignore them.

[mouse_clicker]

Quote
With the gaming media though I think it's more of a bias. I mean you can't write about games for a living and ignore a major player like Nintendo. You have to choose to ignore them.

I swear, Ian, you always have a quote that sums up my sentiments exactly.

[AMac2002]

" Sony and MS aren't exactly innovating the industry. The Microsoft's big Xbox game is an FPS. WOWEE!"

Wow, that was a completely moronic thing to say. Instead of writing it off solely because of it's genre, try not being so narrow-minded. I'm sure all of those GOTY awards it recieved were unjustified...



"With Microsoft it's computers, and well, how to screw people even more. Nintendo is a GAME BASED system only."

Childish comment, but you're point about Nintendo being a game based system is certainly validated. It is ONLY a game based system, and for some people, that seems perfectly fine. However, I think the industry is just moving in the direction of adding more and more cool, new, dare I say... innovative features. There's nothing wrong with being a console that's there just for playing games, I mean, it's a gaming console. But why should the other consoles be penalized for having MORE new things, especially in an argument about innovation.

[odifiend]

Quote
However, I think the industry is just moving in the direction of adding more and more cool, new, dare I say... innovative features.

AMac2002, what innovative features?  Adding a DVD capability and a hard drive? Those features were on PC first making them not very innovative on PS2 and Xbox.  I'm not saying unuseful, just unoriginal.

[Chongman]

"However, I think the industry is just moving in the direction of adding more and more cool, new, dare I say... innovative features. There's nothing wrong with being a console that's there just for playing games, I mean, it's a gaming console. But why should the other consoles be penalized for having MORE new things, especially in an argument about innovation."

Ok...

1. The dvd drive was implemented not for innovation but to milk the dvd craze cash cow at the time

2. How in the world does the pressence of a dvd drive help games

3. New media is not part of the "industry." Xbox's addition of a hardrive is something that helped the "industry," dvd players are not.


The only innovation of these "new" additions is the hardrive, which will quickly become obsolete when flash memory comes out. But hardrive isn't that "innovative" as it is since its been debated and talked over for years. Its not that more is bad, just that with these add-ons, its depreciated the gaming market, making it a more generic entertainment device rather then a unique way to get away from the real world. Look at the psp. Innovative? Hardly. At least in terms of the gaming market. Movie and mp3 playback will only hinder the gaming process because the console will focus on so many different things, its not longer a "console" but a generic entertainment medium.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Making coffee should be pretty innovative.  No, wait, that's been done already...

[Thx1138]

The media has been out to get Nintendo ever since the days of the N64.  Nintendo's arrogance has not done much to help the situation.  

Still, the real reason the media dislikes Nintendo is because they are "For Sale to the higest bidder."  Nintendo refuses to pay people off, so this only worsens the situation.  It also doesn't help that much of the press is a bunch of "30 something" aging fan-boys who in my opinion, are waaay out of touch with younger gamers and the general public alike.

As for Nintendo, the competition has done nothing but steal their best ideas.  The competition is hardly innovative.

Ps2 is just a dressed up PSX.  They jammed a DVD player in it just so that "10 years olds" could watch the "Lion King."  It was also an attempt to win over casual gamers, who truthfully, know very little about gaming.

Dual Analog?  All Sony did was look at Nintendo's N64 controller and copy the analog stick idea times 2.  I actually find the Dual Analog controller quite uncomfortable, due to it's off-center C-sticks.

X-Box includes a hard drive in it's stripped down PC, and now suddenly they are considering dropping it for their next gen console?  Seems like an admission of defeat to me.
(I also find it wildly amusing that they have contracted ATI to make their chips.  Gee, didn't ATI make the GameCube CPU?)

Online gaming?  Sega did it first and did it better in my opinion.  I was playing Unreal Tournament on my DC, with my BBA almost 4 years ago.  And guess what game just arrived on X-Box?  Unreal Tournament!  Way to innovate...

After the smoke clears, Nintendo will be one of the FEW companies who survives in tact.

Also, if you are as disgusted with the press as I am, TELL THEM!

These are just my opinions, strong as they may be.  Feel free to disagree.

Thanks for Reading  

[mouse_clicker]

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I'm sure all of those GOTY awards it recieved were unjustified...

Actually, yeah they were- name one thing Halo did that no other FPS has. You can't, can you? That's because Halo didn't do anything new, it just did the same old things better. Don't get me wrong, that's nothing to scoff at, but certainly nothing to praise, either.  

[Ocarina Blue]

I have a strong disagreement with your dual shock comment. The dual annolouge was new; the idea of a secondary, thumb operated control stick was new; the idea of sticks doubling as buttons was new; and their sphere shape was new.

I give innovation , but commercially it's not the all saving grace some would think it to be.

[Ian Sane]

"Wow, that was a completely moronic thing to say. Instead of writing it off solely because of it's genre, try not being so narrow-minded. I'm sure all of those GOTY awards it recieved were unjustified..."

MC responded to the above comment with:

"Actually, yeah they were- name one thing Halo did that no other FPS has? You can't, can you? That's because Halo didn't do anything new, it just did the same old things better. Don't get me wrong, that's nothing to scoff at, but certainly nothing to praise, either."

That's the point I was making with my "moronic" statement.  I wasn't bashing the game or the genre.  I was stating that Microsoft's big title is not very innovative.  Most Microsoft published Xbox games have very safe proven-formula designs.

[Gamebasher]

Thx1138 is right.

After the smoke clears, Nintendo will be "one of the FEW companies who survives intact". That´s also what Nintendo say itself. All these consolewars will only be won by the type of consolemaker who is 100% focused on GAMES alone.

We got a variety of tv´s, dvd players and hifi-systems stationary and portable to choose between already, from the big manufacturers. So these extra features are not the ones to decide who wins a consolewar. Games and advertisement for games is! Hell, if a game is just uber-cool, it will advertise itself!

With the right price and the gameplay that beat the competition´s ubiquitous never changing game genres, Nintendo will continue to attract more and more new gamers who love the freshness of the new types of games Ninty gives them.

Sony and Microsoft can then blow their budgets on all kinds of glamourous extra features, ridiculously expensive online play servers and hope to attract gamers in that way.

I am sure that even Sony Fanboy and friends will see the Nintendo difference in the end!

     

[Inkwell]

Quote
Originally posted by: Gamebasher
Thx1138 is right.

After the smoke clears, Nintendo will be "one of the FEW companies who survives intact". That´s also what Nintendo say itself. All these consolewars will only be won by the type of consolemaker who is 100% focused on GAMES alone.

I doubt this; if this was a world of just Nintendo fans then this would be feasible but since we live in reality...you get the picture.  Since this market is now more so than ever ruled by third parties, whoever provides the best enviroment for third parties will win. The console maker who is 100% focused on its games won't win anything (except for awards) in todays market otherwise Nintendo would have came out swinging and spouting out catchy one-liners.

[mouse_clicker]

Inkwell, Nintendo is one of the most profitable videogame developer (probably THE most profitable), and that fact alone means Nintendo will be around for a very long time. On top of that, Denis Dyack has broguht up a very good point numerous times- the difference in console power from generation to generation is shrinking, and eventually will virtually dissappear altogether. That's when people aren't going to look at graphical quality or similar features, but rather the quality of the gameplay, which is one area Nintendo has down better than anyone else.  

[Syl]

I just find it hilarious how your ignoring the obvious...

top 10 best selling consule games of 2003:
1. Madden NFL 2004 PS2 Electronic Arts / Aug'03 $49
2. Pokemon Ruby GBA Nintendo of America / Mar'03 $31
3. Pokemon Sapphire GBA Nintendo of America / Mar'03 $31
4. Need for Speed Underground PS2 Electronic Arts / Nov'03 $49
5. Zelda: The Wind Waker GCN Nintendo of America / Mar'03 $47
6. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City PS2 Rockstar Games / Oct'02 $41
7. Mario Kart: Double GCN Nintendo of America / Nov'03 $49
8. Tony Hawk Underground PS2 Activision / Oct'03 $47
9. Enter The Matrix PS2  Atari / May'03 $46
10. Medal Honor Rising PS2 Electronic Arts / Nov'03 $49

nintendo games don't apply to mainstream gamers? they don't sell well? they are behind the times?
then how the hell are they the best selling games fo 2003?
pokemon ruby/sapphire are the same game, and they EACH sold more than EVERY OTHER GAME ON THE MARKET (cept for madden 2004)
then windwaker sold MORE than GTA:VC last year, im sure that speaks for itself....(though GTA:VC did come out in december the year before, i think.)

hell, nintendo isn't doing bad, tehy've been making an absurd amount of money, mainly of the gameboy units and game sales.  I'm sure having a market saturation of 50,000,000 GBA's has to help quite a bit in the long run, the gamecube isn't doing nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be.  with the 99$ cube, its selling very well, and nintendo just needs to get itself with more people playing its games, then in the next generation it should be doing very well as long as it keeps itself with good ads and the amazing quality games it always had/still has.

the anylists seem to ignore certain things, tehy do what they are told to do.  they don't realize how well everything is in the grand scheme of things, at this point, im about 95% that gamecube is going to end the current console wars in 2nd place.,
which, is good enough for me.