Topic: George Harrison answers questions on GameCube 2 (N5) and next Gameboy

[S-U-P-E-R]

Yeah, it DID have six face buttons, and also more niche 3rd party games than the GC did, even though it was based on expensive cartridges, hilariously enough.

I mean, if Rush, Mace: The Dark Age, Beetle Adventure Racing, NBA Hangtime, Hexen, BattleTanx and Fighter's Destiny came out last week, they probably would have been PS2 exclusive. Sure, none of them are Zelda or GTA3, but they were fun, filled out my library, and also help me make my point, I think.  

[thecubedcanuck]

"I find it odd you're falling back on the same thing people have used against Nintendo for ages, cubed. I respect you, man, I at least expected you to be original."

lets fix the old problems first, then and only then will people stop talking about them.
This is not about originality, this is about what needs to be done. The reason the same things keep coming up is simply because they are things that need to get done.

"n my mind here, the recipe for success is to GET THOSE DEV KITS OUT TO EVERYBODY, PRONTO. Sure, maybe clowns you never heard of like Arc System Works won't make you a DKC or a GTA3, but when all of those guys get you you an amazing volume of niche titles, that's nothing to scoff at."

I agree 100% on this. Many here will say they dont want crappy titles. Well, not all will be crappy, even if only 10% are good, at least you have a  choice.  

[mouse_clicker]

That's a matter of opinion, though- I happen to think games like Super Monkey Ball, Soul Calibur, Ikaruga, Rogue Leader, and Resident Evil blow away nearly all the 3rd party titles I liked on the N64.  

[S-U-P-E-R]

Yeah, it's not like the NES/SNES days where consumers can't sniff out a crap game a mile away, especially with today's huge and healthy gaming media.  

[mouse_clicker]

Cubed: That's a matter of opinion, though, whether what you're arguing is actually the problem. I happen to think it's not, and if you want to persuade me, or at least make a good case, you're not going to do it the same old way. I don't see those issues the same way you do.

"agree 100% on this. Many here will say they dont want crappy titles. Well, not all will be crappy, even if only 10% are good, at least you have a choice."

I personally agree with you wholeheartedly here- 25% of 1,000 is still more than 50% of 200.  

[The Omen]

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Great sales has little to do with hype- Sony DOES have other methods of success, you know.

All of the XBOX sales can be directly connected to the massive hype built up before the launch.  Did MS make some outlandish and generally cocky remarks, making me want to kick them in the teeth?  Yes, but people bought it.  

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Yeah, it's not like the NES/SNES days where consumers can't sniff out a crap game a mile away, especially with today's huge and healthy gaming media.

That works both ways, though.  Maybe we bought more crap games back then, but i can assure you that we discovered a lot more of those hiidden gems everyone likes to talk about.  Games were given a chance back then.  Now a game gets rated a 6, and it sells like crap.  

[nolimit19]

i heard nintendo next consoles will use the flux capacitor technology.....that will genorate hype fo sheezy

[PIAC]

the main reason i want a ps2 is for the games super is talking about, i love games like that, and another reason im hyped for Donkey Konga, because the gamecube simpley doesn't have anything like it.

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   Yeah, it's not like the NES/SNES days where consumers can't sniff out a crap game a mile away, especially with today's huge and healthy gaming media.

That works both ways, though. Maybe we bought more crap games back then, but i can assure you that we discovered a lot more of those hiidden gems everyone likes to talk about. Games were given a chance back then. Now a game gets rated a 6, and it sells like crap.

yeah, this is troubling, games like Earthworm Jim and Harvest Moon wouldn't sell these days (figurativly speaking) someone/people need to start up a website uncovering the rare and unique gems of this generation and point them out to people, or someone needs to paste a link to a website like that

[joeposh]

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I don't know if I'd like Nintendo catering to people who make console decisions based on color, though, and I don't think Nintendo wants to cater to those people, either. Then again, maybe it's for that very reason sales have been slipping.

And it's exactly that kind of elitiest, purist attitude that keeps Nintendo struggling to gain more marketshare. I mean I love the Cube as much as the next guy but can you honestly say that when you saw the Gamecube for the first time you were like "wow, that's amazing.. I have to have that!"? I for one was like "Wow these games look great but umm.. I RRRREALLY hope they reconsider on the design" I won't be so harsh as to go into the lunchpail comparisons but it's pretty much agreed that compared to the X-Box and the PS2, Nintendo's system looked like a toy. The controller with it's bright yellow, green and red buttons didn't exactly improve that image. Ever since the SNES Nintendo seems to think that they can do whatever they please and the casual gamer will fall right into line. It doesn't work like that anymore. Nintendo can keep their innovative approach, and still avoid silly pitfalls akin to the ones they've fallen into these past 2 generations.

Many newer gamers have already written off Nintendo entirely. They call it kiddy, stupid etc... we know better but you know what, that perception is still a serious problem. Nintendo needs to address that NOW because if people think Nintendo is dead now, what makes them think they'll suddenly see the light with a 1 month promotional campaign before the launch of the N5. It's serious now... the PSP is coming and that means Nintendo's cash cow is vunerable. It's essential that they make some changes and begin to COURT casual gamers again, not just cater to hardcore/old school gamers like you seem to prefer.

[WesDawg]

Hey, how come Nintendo never opened an American development branch, like R&D6 or 10 or something? I guess back when I was a kid American games sucked, but its seems like they been on the rise, and American developed games are selling a ton better here than they used to. It seems as if Japanese developers are kinda confused as to what the American public wants. Nintedo could open a division here, fill it with American gamers/game makers and let Shiggy give 'em some gameplay advice and they could really put out some cool products. Sorta like they done with Silicon Knights and Retro. I guess maybe thats cheaper than having your own division over here, but it seems like the BigN is confused about what American gamers are willing to pay for or not. Like GB connectivity or cell-shaded Zelda. Not that I want 'em to pander to the public's demands. It just strikes me in the past Gen how different the two cultures are. In fact, the Japanese seem to be the oddballs in todays market, compared to America and Europe at least.

On the advert side I feel pretty torn. I'd love Nintendo to really hype up the N5 and for people to be really excited about it. It seems like it'd be easy to do considering how much people love retro stuff right now. Make the thing look like a NES and people'd go crazy (don't think about that to hard). Hype usually involves some lying though (see PS2, XBOX, and now PSP prelaunch) and I really like that Nintendo doesn't get into that. I don't want to see posters all over proclaiming the N5 as the most powerful game machine ever (even though it will probably be the only real "game machine" around anymore), but at the same time, people love that stuff. That's what sells XBox and PS2 most of the time I think. Not games. Just the promise of owning something cutting edge. Anyways, it seems like the gameplay-centered, truth-talking nintendo thats appeared over the past few years may have to revert to its old sly self if they really want to sell the most consoles next gen. I'm not sure if I want that or not.

Oh well, i'm just rambling.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Nintendo already has, but not sure if it's what you're expecting: NST (Nintendo Software Technology) based in Washington, makers of Ridge Racer 64, Wave Race: Blue Storm, and the upcoming 1080: Avalance.

And Retro Studios happens to be a first-party (someone please either confirm this or totally correct me).

[Ocarina Blue]

Retro Studios and Silicon Knights are both 2nd party developers, I think, but MP, ED, and now MGS:TS have all been helped by Miyamoto, so I guess those are pretty close to 1st party.

Nolimit19: Nintendo clearly stated that that Zelda demo was NOT representitive of any game, only a representitive of the GC's capabilities.  

[Darc Requiem]

Well Bling Bling, Retro was a 2nd party developer. Nintendo didn't like the way Jeff Spangleberg(sp?) was running Retro so they bought him out. Since Nintendo owns Retro outright that makes them a first party developer or am I mistaken?

Darc Requiem

[Mario]

Retro = First Party

Silicon Knights = Second Party

And i think the GameCube looks AWESOME. I dont give a crap about its colour or image, it just looks neat.

[Dynamitega]

At least it's not the Okhama Gamesphere...

[PIAC]

owkhamaaaa ghamsphere!

kyle: dude, this has 128 gigahurtz d ram
stan: whats that?
kyle: i don't know but it kicks ass

[Plugabugz]

Question, and I know this is entirely off-topic, but does Nintendo have any European or Australian first-parties?

Nintendo have their faults and they're slowly realising this. But, everything has to be part of the picture if they are going to get to where they want to be. Individually, nothing will make a difference.

[thecubedcanuck]

"Nolimit19: Nintendo clearly stated that that Zelda demo was NOT representitive of any game, only a representitive of the GC's capabilities. "

That is all fine to say, but then why the hell use Zelda as the game to do this with? They had to know that this would create a ton of hype. The hype was good for business IMO, the decision not to make that demo into a game and deliver on that hype was the downfalll. You can say whatever you like about Zelda's toon/cell shading style, but the truth is, the game would have sold better if it were realistic., it would have clearly appealed to a crowd outside of the Nintendo eliteist.

[mouse_clicker]

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All of the XBOX sales can be directly connected to the massive hype built up before the launch. Did MS make some outlandish and generally cocky remarks, making me want to kick them in the teeth? Yes, but people bought it.

And you're saying the Xbox's sales are GOOD? The thing is selling no better than the Gamecube in every region, and since we're under the impression that the Gamecube's sales need a lot of work, why aren't we under the impression that the XBox's sales need a lot of work? Yes, MS took the hype for the XBox a long way, but it's still pretty much in 3rd place, behind a company that doesn't use enough hype, so obviously they haven't mastered the technique, as I've said.

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And it's exactly that kind of elitiest, purist attitude that keeps Nintendo struggling to gain more marketshare.

*ahem*

"I don't know if I'd like Nintendo catering to people who make console decisions based on color, though, and I don't think Nintendo wants to cater to those people, either. Then again, maybe it's for that very reason sales have been slipping."

I said that exact same thing, man.

[Bill Aurion]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Ninty purchase N-Space, the development team behind Geist?

(They are stationed in Florida, I think...)

[thecubedcanuck]

"And you're saying the Xbox's sales are GOOD? The thing is selling no better than the Gamecube in every region, and since we're under the impression that the Gamecube's sales need a lot of work, why aren't we under the impression that the XBox's sales need a lot of work? Yes, MS took the hype for the XBox a long way, but it's still pretty much in 3rd place, behind a company that doesn't use enough hype, so obviously they haven't mastered the technique, as I've said."

the big differance is that this is microsoft's FIRST attempt at a console and they already have captured the same market share as Nintendo worldwide and have surpassed them in NA. Go ask any room full of grade 7 students what system they would rather have, gamecube or x-box, and I bet x-box wins hands down. This is a big problem. Now ask a group of 30 year olds what the names of Microsofts and nintendos consoles are called and I bet you have a lot more who know the x-box.
Hype and advertising work, plain and simple, why the hell do you think mc donalds has 30,000 stores worldwide, because of the great food?
 

[StRaNgE]

Aesthetics helps sales,  if the next cube  looks like the nexus pictures or something stylized like that and has functionality to boot then  it will help, one will feed off the other , throw in some good launch titles, metroid 2, Zelda, resident evil, gta4 or 5, ikuruga2,  Mario, pikmen3 and so on and well, I'll buy one. Lol

[The Omen]

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And you're saying the Xbox's sales are GOOD? The thing is selling no better than the Gamecube in every region, and since we're under the impression that the Gamecube's sales need a lot of work, why aren't we under the impression that the XBox's sales need a lot of work? Yes, MS took the hype for the XBox a long way, but it's still pretty much in 3rd place, behind a company that doesn't use enough hype, so obviously they haven't mastered the technique, as I've said.

I'm saying they're better than they would've been.  Nintendo should've been able to take second with ease, just because they been around so long .  Xbox stole a percentage of perspective GC buyers, and it shows in the sales.  You proved my point with the last line there.

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behind a company that doesn't use enough hype, so obviously they haven't mastered the technique, as I've said.

Barely behind Nintendo.  Had Nintendo hyped, like you've admitted they don't, sales would've been far better, and the xbox would have been a distant 3rd.  The general population/casual gamer buys into hype, and thats the sect. that Nintendo is missing.

[egman]

After seeing the new "Who are you" commericals and seeing some of the partnerships and things going on at Nintendo, I honestly feel they are getting a grasp on the situation. The aggressivness is returning, but the difference is there seems to be clearer direction and also some honest realizations about the market. Months ago I would've said that Nintendo needs to do more to compete directly with the other consoles, but now I don't think it is feasible.

If the video game industry is going to be the place where the battle of convergence is going to play out, then I don't see Nintendo ever becoming number one again. Sony and MS are waging a war that is far greater than the game industry, and unfortunately Nintendo is really hurting from it. Nintendo has said in the past that they consider themselves a toy company--their console is designed first and foremost to sell their various games and peripherals. They could care less about the other stuff because they are not selling MEDIA in general like Sony and MS. However, this philosophy is clashing with what is percieved as the true direction for videogames. There isn't a whole lot Nintendo can to compete directly against MS and Sony that would make sense or not be risky. Nintendo shouldn't make a entertainment hub if they are not interested in moving outside of games. Nintendo is a software company at their core;MS and Sony are big media using videogames as the birth place for convergence products to replace the PC and other stand alone appliances. Nintendo's core philosophy hurts them more than anything in competing with MS and Sony.

However, the new add campaign is showing a different direction. Nintendo is doing what they failed to do at the beginning of the GC's life, which is clearly seperate it from MS and Sony's consoles. One poster at GA made a really good point about Nintendo providing an alternative. MS and Sony are going after the same crowd with a similar look and message--Nintendo in a sense has a responsiblity to consumers and to their survival to actually provide a clear alternative. We would be dealing with some serious saturation in the market if Nintendo just up and followed MS and Sony to the letter. On top of that, it would probably facilitate their demise because people will see through the facade. Nintendo hasn't fooled anyone in the past about being cool or on the cutting edge; consumers have more sense than that so Nintendo is ultimately doing themselves a favor by finally accepting this and developing a campaign that somehow gets to what Nintendo really is--whimsical and magical.  How this will play out, I don't know. However I do think that Nintendo can at least build a pretty secure niche if they can keep up their quality and not betray those elements that make them Nintendo just to cash so they can cash in on the trends.

One other comment I want to make is about the simplicity matter. Some people are blowing it out of proportion. Streamlining design should not be looked at as a poison to Nintendo's games. There have been misses such as Kirby (which I think is actually far better then what it is credited for) and Wario World (could've used a difficulty setting or removal or adjustment of the coins for life system), but their have been behind many solid games such as SSB:Melee and Animal Crossing which expound the current Nintendo philosophy on design. People should not assume Nintendo is trying to cut corners or regress. I think there are some valid criticisms they have made about the game industry and themselves in game design that keep video games from being truly mainstream in the sense of getting the whole family around the console, rather than just some hardcore geeks or "cool" 20 something males who are pretty easy to sell to. The VG industry still hasn't found a solid way to sell to girls for instance outside of the typical Mary Kate and Ashley shovelware. I think most of us are too caught up in the hardcore nature of games to realize the industry can and does alienate potential customers. Complex game design is one the biggest offenders in that sense if you compare games today to games in the past. It's been a long time since we have some truly break through games like Donkey Kong or Pac-Man. GTA is close, but now we are going into the realm of acceptable content in games, which is for another thread.

[Ian Sane]

"I mean like, realistic racing sim fans, fighting game fans, music game fans, they're each far from a majority, but when you can wrap up all those little markets in one system, that's something special, right there. And I don't mean like, one or two, I mean a real VARIETY."

Variety is very important and I feel that's the big flaw with the "quality over quantity" approach.  For a company that used to be known for being innovative and taking risks Nintendo has been trying a little to hard lately to make sure everything is a potential hit and thus every second game they publish has the Mario license.  Variety is hard to come by when you're not the market leader but I think the variety of Nintendo's lineup would increase if they stopped relying on their franchise characters so much.  Instead of having Hudson, Treasure, and Camelot work on Mario Party, Wario World, and Mario Golf have them work on their own original content.  It might not sell better then another Mario spinoff but it will provide a more well-rounded lineup that in the end may attract more console buyers.  Plus you never know what game will be the next huge hit.  I don't think anyone knew that Goldeneye, Pokemon, or GTA3 would be the huge system sellers they became.  I know for a fact that the next big seller for Nintendo won't be another Mario spinoff but an original game from Camelot COULD be.