Author Topic: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.  (Read 1397 times)

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Offline pokepal148

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The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« on: September 28, 2020, 04:05:12 PM »
I'm playing through this on the DS version on the Wii U Virtual Console. It's been a real hoot. I like playing a version of Mario 64 wherere the camera isn't an absolute nightmare and the extra characters and stuff they added are real fun as well. I definitely want to dabble with the original more. I know I have a save from the Wii VC version that was in the castle's second floor that I could pull up to mess around with some of the later stages but honestly, the DS version having a functioning camera system really puts it over the edge for me.

The original game is impressive as hell for it's time, and I do feel it took a while for time to catch up with it, but as gaming has evolved more and more, it's age has started to show more and more.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 04:24:08 PM by pokepal148 »
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 05:20:20 PM »
This is why it's too bad we didn't get a full remaster that had both the original and DS version present.  The DS version has a lot of nice content added to the game, but the lack of analog controls is kind of a big deal.  For the most part I played the game just fine with the D-Pad until I got to the later levels like Rainbow Cruise.

I've been meaning to play the game on my 3DS someday to see if using that systems control stick might solve some of my issues.  Of course, you mentioning the Wii U Virtual Console is making me tempted to buy that version of the game since being able to use the Pro Controller analog stick might solve my issues as well.  Even if the game still doesn't have full analog controls, at least using a joystick to move Mario should hopefully work better then the d-pad on original DS was.
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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2020, 05:36:43 PM »
I've spent significant time with the DS version on both 3DS and Wii U, and while it definitely controls better, it's still not great compared to the real thing. I enjoyed the extra stars, but the character switching was pretty clunky at times. Having to go back to Peach's room anytime you wanted to switch got really annoying.
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2020, 07:21:07 PM »
If you play as yoshi, you can select the character hat you need on the touch screen at the start of a stage.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2020, 07:37:02 PM »
Yeah, but if you get hit you lose it, which can be pretty annoying in certain situations. They should have just let you switch between them at any time when you're in the castle.
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2020, 11:05:38 PM »
Getting back to the actual game, 64 has a really weird difficulty curve. Literally the first time it throws moving platforms at you is over a bottomless pit in Whomp's Fortress and the missions in the game are not always based on difficulty. Rainbow Ride is a really good example of this with how one of it's hardest Stars is the first one on the list.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 06:50:59 PM by pokepal148 »
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Offline Stratos

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2020, 12:39:48 PM »
Yeah, I've been grinding through the last stars in the Switch version and its been a lesson in patience and fury. Maybe its using a joycon that is the problem, but everything just missed the mark on fine control. The camera was much harder to manage, and moving while the camera auto adjusted led to a lot of falls and mistakes. I'n down to just two Rainbow Ride stars and the final Bowser star before I beat the game and I'm surprised to say the ending can't come any sooner.

How much does the DS Mario 64 go for because I may pick that up for a later play through since I never got to experience the extra content?
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2020, 06:15:09 PM »
How much does the DS Mario 64 go for because I may pick that up for a later play through since I never got to experience the extra content?

The DS version of Mario 64 can be bought on the Wii U eshop for $10.  That's probably the cheapest and easiest way to buy it, and as Insanolord said, that version controls better then playing it on a real DS would.
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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2020, 02:59:55 AM »
I've been playing this on Switch, mostly in handheld mode.  I've been trying to do all stars for each world as I go along, and it's led to me getting into some frustrating situations where I'm fighting the camera and old game design instead of just moving on like I should.  The jarring thing to me is how the level design felt vast and invigorating as a kid, but now it feels lacking and limiting in places.  Getting through the levels is less fun while beating bosses is easier than ever.  Still, the nostalgia runs deep, and there is a good game under all the archaism.

But this is definitely a game that needed the remake treatment, even over a remaster.  The updated textures are appreciated, but the camera needs an overhaul.  They also could've also fixed the smoke effect bug; although, something like that is far from a big deal and the game is probably more nostalgic with the bug.  But other issues are more hinderance than charm.

It would've been nice to get an up-port of the DS remake, but that version doesn't really feel "definitive".  Because they were once willing to go into the game and update the models for a remake, it's a bummer they haven't here.  Making the existing enemies look like their modern counterparts and doing things like turning Big Boo into King Boo (and having him sound like King Boo) would've been greatly appreciated, as they were for the DS version, but especially in HD.
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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2020, 01:24:34 PM »
I tried to do it in order as well, but ran into two issues. One was the necessity of the caps for some early stars and another was my patience. I cleared most of the first three worlds in order, but the need to unlock the caps threw me off, especially since I was refusing to look up help and only rely on the game itself and my memory and I had forgotten where the metal cap room was located. I then threw all attempts at going "in order" to the wind when I kept dying due to the finicky camera and twitchy controls causing me to waltz off ledges. In the end the last leg of the game turned into a real slog and I could not for the life of me toss Bowser into the mines when I remember having pin-point accuracy.

I'm glad I've finished and moved on to sunshine. The camera and controls of Mario are MUCH better in direct comparison. There are still a few odd quirks (I can't go into a near-1st person view to have Mario look around anymore?) but nothing as frustrating as the camera and controls in 64.
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2020, 03:45:24 PM »
The retroactive thread is finally open so any further thoughts on the game should be posted there. Go here for Mario 64 talk.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2020, 04:33:58 PM »
I had forgotten where the metal cap room was located.

Though the World/Painting 6 - The bottemless pit, right? I think you have to enter a room there which then leads into the waterfall cave with the metal cap switch. Wing cap is looking up at the light when standing in the circle of the Castle lobby. Invisibility cap is from draining the moat. Pretty sure I've still got it.

In fact, let's do a quick mental test...
 
World 1 = Bob-omb Battlefield
World 2 = Whomp's Fortress
World 3 = Cool Cool Mountain
World 4 = Dry Dry Docks
World 5 = Boo's Haunted House(something like that?)
World 6 = (Argh! I can never remember the name of this cave / bottomless pit. Dark Dark Dungeon?)
World 7 = Lethal Lava Land
World 8 = Shifting Sands
World 9 = Bowser's Secret Sub (I think that's the name of the first star but that's all I can remember for a name on this world.)
(10 - 13 I usually mix up but I think the order is:)
World 10 = Snowman Land (or maybe Winter Wonderland)
World 11 = Tall Tall Mountain
World 12 = Wet / Dry Land
World 13 = Big and Small Island
World 14 = Tick-Tock Clock
World 15 = Rainbow Ride

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2020, 04:56:44 PM »
And the result is.....

Stage 1 - Bob-omb Battlefield (Yes)
Stage 2 - Whomp's Fortress (Yes)
Stage 3 - Jolly Roger Bay (No! Mixed up the order and got the name wrong)
Stage 4 - Cool, Cool Mountain (No! Name right. Wrong Spot)
Stage 5 - Big Boo's Haunt (No. Close but a bit off)
Stage 6 - Hazy Maze Cave (No. I wonder if I'll ever remember this name)
Stage 7 - Lethal Lava Land (Yes)
Stage 8 - Shifting Sand Land (No... So close. I was wondering if there was Land but it seemed wrong with Lava Land just before)
Stage 9 - Dire, Dire Docks (No.. Got this mixed up with Jolly Roger and thought it was Dry Dry)
Stage 10 - Snowman's Land (Yes... Although I did add a second guess.  :-\ )
Stage 11 - Wet-Dry World (No. Mixed up its position with 12. Also, this is World and not Land)
Stage 12 - Tall, Tall Mountain (No. Name is right but wrong position)
Stage 13 - Tiny, Huge Island (No. Name is a bit off)
Stage 14 - Tick Tock Clock (Yes)
Stage 15 - Rainbow Ride (Yes)

Man, I thought I did a lot better than that result. Guess I should play this game again after 10 years or more. Clearly getting rusty in my recollections about it.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2020, 08:19:45 PM »
Yeah, I've been grinding through the last stars in the Switch version and its been a lesson in patience and fury. Maybe its using a joycon that is the problem, but everything just missed the mark on fine control. The camera was much harder to manage, and moving while the camera auto adjusted led to a lot of falls and mistakes. I'n down to just two Rainbow Ride stars and the final Bowser star before I beat the game and I'm surprised to say the ending can't come any sooner.

How much does the DS Mario 64 go for because I may pick that up for a later play through since I never got to experience the extra content?

I played my friends Super Mario 3D All Stars and immediately felt the same thing.  The Joycons are a horrible horrible controller.  It is the worst controller Nintendo has ever made, and Nintendo needs to move away from it fast.  I hope Nintendo will go back to a full sized D-Pad and a full sized Gamecube Analog Stick.  And Buttons should be bigger.  I know the controllers would become bigger but they are too small for adult hands already. 

I do think that a Super Mario 64 upgrade would be wise.  Just give us a good camera, add in the wall slide maneuver and then give us the extra stars and characters as a bonus after beating the game originally...like they did in Super Mario Odyssey.

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2020, 01:17:01 PM »
I only got around to Mario 64 on the DS and I remember being absolutely in love with it. After all these years I decided to go through it as it was originally with 3D All Stars. Just got 120 Stars last night after 30 hours or so. Holy macaroni! Never again... I can see how for it's time it was an amazing break through. I remember all the hoopla back in the day but as I was in my anti Mario phase my first N64 games were Star Fox 64 and Bomberman 64.

There was certainly a ton of fun to be had but the camera and constant sliding at maximum velocity nearly broke me all together. I went through Sunshine First, 64 DS second, and Galaxy 3rd so I just wasn't used to all that unstable terrain. I'd be running on a fairly narrow ledge and just slightly run upon it's angled edge and Mario would go belly sliding for miles down a cliff.

What ever the case I enjoyed it enough to punish myself through all 120 Stars.

Just started Sunshine and I feel like I have so much more control over Mario. Fludd or no Fludd, long jump or not. Mario's physical interaction with the ground and walls is so much more forgiving that I never truly realized how much of a step up Sunshine was in that regard.
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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2020, 03:12:07 AM »
I tried to do it in order as well, but ran into two issues. One was the necessity of the caps for some early stars and another was my patience. I cleared most of the first three worlds in order, but the need to unlock the caps threw me off, especially since I was refusing to look up help and only rely on the game itself and my memory and I had forgotten where the metal cap room was located. I then threw all attempts at going "in order" to the wind when I kept dying due to the finicky camera and twitchy controls causing me to waltz off ledges. In the end the last leg of the game turned into a real slog and I could not for the life of me toss Bowser into the mines when I remember having pin-point accuracy.

I'm glad I've finished and moved on to sunshine. The camera and controls of Mario are MUCH better in direct comparison. There are still a few odd quirks (I can't go into a near-1st person view to have Mario look around anymore?) but nothing as frustrating as the camera and controls in 64.

Yeah, you can't really go world by world, which I suppose is by design to get you to explore more.  I circled back to earlier worlds once I unlocked the various caps.  Where I keep getting frustrated is the 100 coin stars.  Some stages feel almost deprived of coins, where others I can clear 125 coins in a run.  But either way, getting a run takes so much effort and I lack the patience I had as a kid who had saved these stars for last.  I ended up skipping the one in lethal lava land because that freaking turtle shell doesn't respawn.  The only other ones I've skipped are the 8 red coins in the Bowser stages.  After a few tries, I just go straight to the boss fight because I know that's gonna be a separate headache.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2020, 12:27:59 PM »
I had forgotten where the metal cap room was located.

Though the World/Painting 6 - The bottemless pit, right? I think you have to enter a room there which then leads into the waterfall cave with the metal cap switch. Wing cap is looking up at the light when standing in the circle of the Castle lobby. Invisibility cap is from draining the moat. Pretty sure I've still got it.

In fact, let's do a quick mental test...
 
World 1 = Bob-omb Battlefield
World 2 = Whomp's Fortress
World 3 = Cool Cool Mountain
World 4 = Dry Dry Docks
World 5 = Boo's Haunted House(something like that?)
World 6 = (Argh! I can never remember the name of this cave / bottomless pit. Dark Dark Dungeon?)
World 7 = Lethal Lava Land
World 8 = Shifting Sands
World 9 = Bowser's Secret Sub (I think that's the name of the first star but that's all I can remember for a name on this world.)
(10 - 13 I usually mix up but I think the order is:)
World 10 = Snowman Land (or maybe Winter Wonderland)
World 11 = Tall Tall Mountain
World 12 = Wet / Dry Land
World 13 = Big and Small Island
World 14 = Tick-Tock Clock
World 15 = Rainbow Ride

Yeah, I had the cap spots jumbled a bit (good memory though, pretty close). The flying cap was easy enough to remember, but I though the metal cap was in the moat, and when it wasn't there I thought it was in the waterfall which was...sort of right (that's the one way exit). Spent too much time trying to jump into the waterfall. I hated Hazy Maze so skipped that world for a while. When I finally did it and got to the Loch Ness Monster and saw the double doors to the side it came back to me and finally found it.

I tried to do it in order as well, but ran into two issues. One was the necessity of the caps for some early stars and another was my patience. I cleared most of the first three worlds in order, but the need to unlock the caps threw me off, especially since I was refusing to look up help and only rely on the game itself and my memory and I had forgotten where the metal cap room was located. I then threw all attempts at going "in order" to the wind when I kept dying due to the finicky camera and twitchy controls causing me to waltz off ledges. In the end the last leg of the game turned into a real slog and I could not for the life of me toss Bowser into the mines when I remember having pin-point accuracy.

I'm glad I've finished and moved on to sunshine. The camera and controls of Mario are MUCH better in direct comparison. There are still a few odd quirks (I can't go into a near-1st person view to have Mario look around anymore?) but nothing as frustrating as the camera and controls in 64.

Yeah, you can't really go world by world, which I suppose is by design to get you to explore more.  I circled back to earlier worlds once I unlocked the various caps.  Where I keep getting frustrated is the 100 coin stars.  Some stages feel almost deprived of coins, where others I can clear 125 coins in a run.  But either way, getting a run takes so much effort and I lack the patience I had as a kid who had saved these stars for last.  I ended up skipping the one in lethal lava land because that freaking turtle shell doesn't respawn.  The only other ones I've skipped are the 8 red coins in the Bowser stages.  After a few tries, I just go straight to the boss fight because I know that's gonna be a separate headache.

The 100 coin stars were some of the worst for me. Lava Land, Shifting Sands, Tiny Huge Island, Tick Tock Clock, and Rainbow Ride were the worst that come to mind. The platforming was too imprecise for navigating those worlds. But Dry Dry Dock was the worst as I could never FIND all the coins. Supposedly there are 106, but because of the pop in you had to go EVERYWHERE to find the last stragglers. And the bloody vortex got me twice when I was at 98 or so and once after getting 100 and the star. Turns out that even saving doesn't preserve the star if you die afterwards.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2020, 07:35:50 PM »
I remember reading guides on those stars.  If I remember there is one level that has like 104 or 105 coins only, and you have to do a perfect run.  Others you had to know which Star to select to open things up to give you a chance. 

They were fun challenges (much better than say the Sunshine Blue Coins). I don't need to 100% a game anymore, so I wouldn't bother with those 100 coin stars today.

Now, I remember the camera being bad, but I also remember it only being a problem on a few stars and only 3 levels.  The Rainbow Road level was horrible.  The TickTock Clock Level also.  But you know, since I don't care anymore if I 100% a game I think Mario 64 will still be a great experience.

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2020, 11:12:59 PM »
They were definitely fun challenges at the time.  Being young, having all the time and patience in the world, not knowing that better controls are possible. . .
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2020, 04:49:23 PM »
I remember reading guides on those stars.  If I remember there is one level that has like 104 or 105 coins only,
The DS version bumped the coin counts on most stages so every stage has at least around 20 extra coins iirc and also massively increased the draw distance on coins.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2020, 06:13:34 PM »
I trust the Retroactive will take some time to discuss my incredible medal-winning performances at the 2016 NintendOlympics.

Here's a noteworthy quote:

That said, having now replayed a good chunk of Mario 64 again very close to having played Super Mario Sunshine so that both are now fresh in my mind, I still like Sunshine more. And even though I can see its faults more clearly, I'm still ready to dive back into that game. In a weird way, this helped boost my opinion of Sunshine back up so I'm glad I did it.

Like a lot of people now realizing how rough Mario 64 is compared to Sunshine and giving Sunshine more of a break because it controls better, I was ahead of the curve 4 years ago on this Mario reassessment.

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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2020, 10:21:07 PM »
After completing a few more games in my backlog, with all the talk about Mario 64 recently it's now as good a time as any to finally get in on the action.  Just starting playing Mario 64 on my Wii U today, already got 20 stars.  Last time I played Mario 64 was literally 5 years ago on my Wii U around the time Mario Maker came out.  I was literally going back and forward between 2D and 3D during that time.

Anyway playing it today still gives me the same feeling I had back in 2015.  It's still a fun game to play and I love the variety it offers in gameplay for such an early 3D game, but the controls and camera have not aged the best.  Most challenges come from a combination of the camera and controls causing you to slide into a bottom less pit.  But the main reason I'm replaying this isn't to reevaluate the original 64 game since my memories of it in 2015 are still pretty fresh, but to finally finish Mario 64 DS and compare the differences between the N64 and DS version.

That's right, before starting up Mario 64 on the Wii U I went and bought the DS version from the eShop so that I can start playing that game right after I get all 120 stars in the N64 original.  Last time I played the DS game had to be over a decade ago on the original DS, and I stopped playing because the controls were bothering me.  Well now I'll be playing with a joystick and on a big screen so things should be somewhat better on that front.  So hopefully in the next months I can finally have a clear verdict on which version of this game is the best.
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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2020, 10:55:30 PM »
Been playing through the Collection off-and-on now that I finally have my Switch back from its extended loan to a friend. Been jumping between the games, and yeah...like some others, having Mario 64 alongside Sunshine actually makes me appreciate Sunshine more (despite how poorly it's designed) just because of how much smoother the controls and camera are. Plus, I feel like you have to replay less of Sunshine when you fail, despite how repetitive that game's progression system normally is.

Regarding Mario 64 specifically, replaying it once more reminds me that I really only love the 1st 1/3 to 1/2 of the game, primarily Bombomb Battlefield to Big Boo's Haunt. After that, my appreciation for the game rapidly diminishes as the level design starts to demand a little more precision than the controls can provide and a lot more patience for replaying entire stages than I'd ever give a modern game. I've never bothered going for the 120 Stars before, but I'm trying to see how far I can get this time.

So far, I'm at around 65 stars, having obtained all the stars in the first 7 stages plus some miscellaneous ones. Unfortunately, I'm now at the desert stage, one I just can't stand. This is one of those stages that's always put a bit of a premium on using the Flight Cap, and to this day I've never gotten the hang of using that thing properly. It's also one where something like 3/4 of the playable area is instant-kill quicksand. Fun.

And yeah, I hate the 100 coin stars. Always have, mostly because you lose ALL your progress and have to sit through loading screens the moment you die, and as mentioned the game gets rather fond of killing you in the 2nd half the game.

For the life of me, I don't understand why Nintendo never coded the save system to record the number of Lives you had in stock. It makes collecting 1ups pointless since you'll just lose them the moment you turn the game off. Nintendo had to have realized that was a mistake, because they fixed that in Sunshine and Galaxy.
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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2020, 11:29:31 PM »
For the life of me, I don't understand why Nintendo never coded the save system to record the number of Lives you had in stock. It makes collecting 1ups pointless since you'll just lose them the moment you turn the game off. Nintendo had to have realized that was a mistake, because they fixed that in Sunshine and Galaxy.

Super Mario World did it the same way as 64, and I'd say it's more of a problem in that game since you can't just save anywhere at any time.
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Re: The Un-Official Super Mario 64 Retroactive thread waiting room.
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2020, 03:01:37 AM »
So far, I'm at around 65 stars, having obtained all the stars in the first 7 stages plus some miscellaneous ones. Unfortunately, I'm now at the desert stage, one I just can't stand. This is one of those stages that's always put a bit of a premium on using the Flight Cap, and to this day I've never gotten the hang of using that thing properly. It's also one where something like 3/4 of the playable area is instant-kill quicksand. Fun.

I'm literally at that stage as well right now and while I actually do like the inside of the pyramid, yeah the outside part is pretty much garbage.  If you use a cannon to shot Mario with the Flight Cap he moves way too fast to control and if you use the Triple Jump he moves way too slow and can hardly get any altitude.  Oh and going up the pyramid on the outside is BS since if you're just one little pixel off the game sends you sliding to your doom.  Even when using the flight cap several time I thought I landed on the top but the game still made me slide off to the quicksand below.

At 55 stars I'm remembering how frustrated I got back in 2015 when I got all 120.  The camera is just so shitty and is literally responsible for 90% of all death since it's so hard to perfectly line up my jumps for some of the harder stars without accidentally missing the platforms or landing on an area that makes you slide off screen and my god is this game obsessed with making you slide around.  I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons they gave Mario the ability to hover in Sunshine in the first place was to help address these issues since it'd be easier for Mario to still land his jumps even if the camera angle isn't the most ideal.
I’m gonna have you play every inch of this game! - Masahiro Sakurai