Author Topic: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?  (Read 71466 times)

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Offline odifiend

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #150 on: February 22, 2004, 06:31:51 AM »
I was, like I've said before, dissapointed in WW.  I lot of its defenders are quick to state that WW haters are immature because they won't play a cel-shaded game, but WW actually made me like celshading, but I felt that Nintendo wasted this new style on Wind Waker.
Like Queztacoatl, I felt ripped off with the facial expressions.  Miyamoto-san told us the shift in style was to better convey emotion.  I was already cynical because there are photorealistic games that do convey emotion well, and then they did give rapid shifts in faces, as opposed to facial expressions.
The game is better than alot of crap on the market, but it is by no means the best game on the GCN or in the Zelda series.  On this board, I read a post that began something like "the game was perfect except that it has this and this and this wrong with it."-i.e. not perfect.  I agree with Quez, that this game leeched off of previous successes (and the desperate need of a well-known game on the GCN).
For thoses of you with fire in your eyes, this is my opinion.  Bill defines it somewhere in here .

Hey Bill, the amoeba boss from OoT was pretty hard.  
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #151 on: February 22, 2004, 06:38:40 AM »
Well of course Wind Waker isn't the best in the Zelda series, but it's most definitely the best of the 3d versions...

(LttP and Link's Awakening are the best Zelda games)
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Offline thecubedcanuck

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #152 on: February 22, 2004, 06:58:06 AM »
One of the most boring games I have ever played.
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Offline odifiend

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #153 on: February 22, 2004, 07:08:23 AM »
Bill, I noticed that your top three Zelda games are a Gameboy version, a 2d console version and a 3d console version.  Seriously how do you rank them?  Is it that you divided the Zelda franchise into those three verson categories and picked what you felt were the top in each respective category?  Did you do it by Dungeons?  Did you do it by storyline?  (I personally hope not b/c I can't see how you think OoT's epic story is worst than WW's)  Or is it something more personal like the experience that goes along with the game?
What makes your favorite Zelda game your favorite, you guys?  What are you basing the OoT bashing and the WW praising (and the reverse) off of?
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #154 on: February 22, 2004, 07:09:40 AM »
To: Smashbros or whatever

Quote

Your first point on popularity: It is a leech game. It is leeching off the success of its predecessors and is gaining the support mainly from the fanboys.


And then you go into raves about your beloved Final Fantasy?  The earlier SNES FF games are magnificent, and then look at the current ones and they are absolute garbage.  Effort?  Where?  They may have put effort into the FMVs but that's not even a game!  You're supposed to PLAY a videogame not WATCH it!  But Square doesn't have to put a lot of effort into it!  Why?  Because they sell the way they are..  Why?  Because of the success of the earlier games. (namely FF7 which is NOT the best of the series.)

I consider  the most recent Final Fantasies leech games.......NOT Zelda.  

oh.  WW had the most memorable and amazing music I have EVER heard.  Yes, it's a matter of preference, but to think that the music is garbage is just showing that you went into the game looking for things to complain about, and your blatant fanboy-ism got your way of experiencing ART.  Either that or you had a wedge of cheese lodged in your ears.  Most likely both.  

And about them reusing tunes...no they didn't reuse the songs.  They just used familiar lines from old songs to create a feeling of nostalagia.  How bout you play a Zelda game before OoT?  The you'll notice that they've been doing this form the start.  Hell,  square has been using the exact same music is their FF games form the start,  The intro and (winning) battle theme that you may remember was in the ORIGINAL and they keep using it.

When was the story line EVER important in a Zelda game?  No, WW had a MUCH better story than OoT.  Link had a family, and part of that was taken away from him and he set off on a big ol adventure to save his sister.  Right from the start there's more story than the other Zelda games.  

(<3 Link's Awakening.  That game is just FUN.  (except for those freakin orbs.......)
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #155 on: February 22, 2004, 07:14:46 AM »
I rank my top games by fun factor and how they affect me emotionally...LttP, LA, and WW (my top 3 in order) have done the best at it...

And I'm far from bashing OoT...I just think that WW is better...If you want a comparison, here's my top list of games...

1.  LttP
2.  Link's Awakening
3.  Wind Waker
4.  Terranigma
5.  Ocarina of Time
6.  Gunstar Heroes
etc...etc...

~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline odifiend

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #156 on: February 22, 2004, 07:17:14 AM »
De gustibus non est disputandem
Relative Translation: "You can't argue with fun factor."
EDIT: KN, I disagree with WW's story being better.  OoT is based off the formula for a tale of an epic hero that has been around for millenia.  While I can appreciate,  WW Link having his sister stolen (accidentally), I think it can't beat the idea of destiny and the outcast of the world saving the world that is indifferent to him.  OoT is the first Zelda in the chronological telling and I think it is a great starter for the Zelda myth.  But again it boils down to opinion.
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Offline Smashman

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #157 on: February 22, 2004, 09:58:11 AM »
Bill- you need to calm down there buddy. You prefer WW the most of the three Zelda games. Your opinion is most certainly in the minority. Wind Waker was ranked inferior to both Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time in all polls. More people prefer MM to WW and more people prefer OOT to WW. Only ONE person preferred WW to MM in one poll. Have you EXTENSIVELY played both OOT and MM? If you have, then I will shut my mouth. If you aren't, then I suggest play them and THEN tell me...
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #158 on: February 22, 2004, 10:09:19 AM »
You're asking the ultimate Zelda fan if he's played every Zelda game?

(And I'll just add that in at least 95% of the cases, the only reason that those pollers like OoT more than WW is because of the graphics, handsdown)  
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Offline odifiend

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #159 on: February 22, 2004, 10:13:04 AM »
Seriously Smash, Bill knows so much about Zelda, he has to have the triforce etched in his brain .  I've played them all except Link's Awakening and since its Bill's second favorite sounds like I need to find it.  
Edit: Bad! THat was some FUBAR.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #160 on: February 22, 2004, 10:22:16 AM »
Quote

(And I'll just add that in at least 95% of the cases, the only reason that those pollers like OoT more than WW is because of the graphics, handsdown)


Actually, I'd warrant it would be because Wind Waker became boring having to sail around the gigantic overworld to tiny little specks of island- this was amplified when you not only had to search for the Triforce pieces, but the Triforce charts to -find- the Triforce pieces. The game also didn't challenge you, which left a lot to be desired. Wind Waker is still one of the best games I've ever played, if only for the atmosphere, but I think both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are the better games hands down.
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Offline Smashman

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #161 on: February 22, 2004, 10:30:07 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill
You're asking the ultimate Zelda fan if he's played every Zelda game?

(And I'll just add that in at least 95% of the cases, the only reason that those pollers like OoT more than WW is because of the graphics, handsdown)


Well, OK... I think I will just shut my mouth then...... :runs off:
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #162 on: February 22, 2004, 10:32:22 AM »
MM was the worst Zelda game...Yes, even more-so than AoL..."No freedom = bah" in a Zelda game...
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Offline Jale

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #163 on: February 22, 2004, 10:36:08 AM »
I think that AoL was a bit worse than MM just because in AoL i had no idea at all what was going on. I had no idea how to fight or what the hell was going on. At least in MM there was a reason for the lack of freedom.

Offline Smashman

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #164 on: February 22, 2004, 10:51:24 AM »
LoZ=9/10
AoL=8/10
LTTP=10/10
OOT=10/10
MM=9/10
WW=8.5/10
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Offline Jale

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #165 on: February 22, 2004, 11:09:40 AM »
I do agree with how you have ranked the games but i dont agree with some of the ratings. AoL should have got a 6/10. If it wasn't a zelda game it would be about 1/10.

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #166 on: February 22, 2004, 11:50:40 AM »
Oh, ratings, huh?  Fine!

LoZ - 9.5/10
AoL - 8.5/10
LttP - 10/10
LA - 10/10
OoT - 9.75/10
MM - 8/10
OoA/OoS - 9.75/10
WW - 10/10

(Oh, and Jale, just because you don't know what is going on doesn't mean the rest of us don't... )  
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #167 on: February 22, 2004, 02:57:05 PM »
Quote

You prefer WW the most of the three Zelda games


I bolderated the key words.  Were you even aware that there are ones before that?
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Offline Smashman

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #168 on: February 22, 2004, 02:57:29 PM »
OOT is widely considered by the majority to be the best game, easily better than WW...

Final arguments from me:

"*Digs up catalogue of tWW posts*

Heh. I posted this at another forum recently, and it sums up my feelings pretty nicely:




I am of the opinion that tWW is inferior to most of the other Zelda games in every way...

I am not against change... what I am against is a completely different feel to the game. Oh, and I also tend to dislike bad games.


The Wind Waker, although it is quite good, has many, many problems.

First off, the music. The music sucks ass, for the most part. There isn't a single piece of background music from the game that I care for, and I should know, I have an MP3 of every piece of music. The only good parts of the music are one-time cinematic things, like when the Triforce of Wisdom is completed, or the Triforce of Courage.

The game is as easy as it can possibly get without actually having some sort of invincibility codes and walkthrough for the dungeons. It is a sad thing when the most dangerous enemy in the game is a giant pig found in the beginning village. It does more damage then ANYTHING else in the game.

Guess what? There was almost a total lack of overworld exploration, and that has always been one of, if not THE most important part of the Zelda series. Guess which island had the biggest non-dungeon area? OUTSET. OUTSET, where you START the damned game.

And don't spout out some ridiculous nonsense about how there are tons of cool islands... there were only about 2 minor islands in the game that were interesting in the least, and even then they were only interesting for a few moments.

Instead of having ONE, and ONLY one island in each square, they should have a lot more of them, and spread them out more naturally. It is positively unnatural for the islands to be spaced out like that, and it feels that way in the game.

Next up: The items. Let me think... there was one... ONE new item in the game. Everything else was either totally worthless (the Hero's Mask) or it has been used before in other Zelda games. That is PATHETIC. What happened to the good old days of Zelda? LttP introduced tons and tons of new items, and even LA managed to come up with some new ones. OoT had several new items.

And the Oracle games had the most inventive and imagination items of all the games, aside from LttP.

But then comes tWW, the inferior dissapointing Wind Waker. With one new item.


Another thing. All the nessecary items, items you need to beat the game, are practically handed to you. Take Dragon Roost Isaldn for example. Medli givs you the bottle... in LttP, you would have had to explore around a bit and find an treasure chest with an item hidden in a recess somewhere, or something.

Or even worse, the Fire and Ice Arrows. You are given BOTH at the SAME time.

The only items that are frustarting to get (frustrating, not hard... there's a difference) are WORTHLESS. WORTHLESS. It should either be the other way around, or they should have a good balance.

I remember back in games like LttP or LA, they had items like the Ice Rod just hidden in out-of-the way caves. Ever since OoT though, the only things hidden in random caves are rupees. It's rare to even find a HEART piece somewhere like that.

The Zelda magic, the sens eof exploration and adventure that has characterized the Zelda series for so long is completely and totally absent from the disgrace that is the Wind Waker.


And before any of you fools accuse me of hating it because of the graphics or some suchu thing... the celshaded graphics were the best part of the game. The ONLY part of the game I EVER want to see in another Zelda game.

Now, I want to add something... Up until you rescue Aryll, the game rocks. it lives up to the Zelda name. However, then the game's momentum and fun just... halts. It is so incredibly obvious that they were taking their time with the game up until then, perfecting it, but then they started rushing it." `lord-of-shadow, ZU.
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #169 on: February 22, 2004, 03:27:33 PM »
My turn! ^_^

Quote

The Wind Waker, although it is quite good, has many, many problems.

First off, the music. The music sucks ass, for the most part. There isn't a single piece of background music from the game that I care for, and I should know, I have an MP3 of every piece of music. The only good parts of the music are one-time cinematic things, like when the Triforce of Wisdom is completed, or the Triforce of Courage.

I suppose this is all opinion (WRONG OPINION ^_^).  But if you want's people to take you seriously don't use vulgarities.

The game is as easy as it can possibly get without actually having some sort of invincibility codes and walkthrough for the dungeons. It is a sad thing when the most dangerous enemy in the game is a giant pig found in the beginning village. It does more damage then ANYTHING else in the game.

and....?  Hard does not equal fun.  Sure, a totally easy game won't be as fun, but WW had enough challenge to keep you occupied, no?  And there are the puzzles too....

Guess what? There was almost a total lack of overworld exploration, and that has always been one of, if not THE most important part of the Zelda series. Guess which island had the biggest non-dungeon area? OUTSET. OUTSET, where you START the damned game.

And OoT's biggest explorable area was HYRULE.  Where you start the damn game! -___- No overworld exploration?!  huge ocean/  HUGE OCEAN?!  There's is so much wrong with that parapraph......

And don't spout out some ridiculous nonsense about how there are tons of cool islands... there were only about 2 minor islands in the game that were interesting in the least, and even then they were only interesting for a few moments.

but you had to find the islands, and you obviously felt the urge to find them all.  If you hadn't, then you don't have the right to argue......

Instead of having ONE, and ONLY one island in each square, they should have a lot more of them, and spread them out more naturally. It is positively unnatural for the islands to be spaced out like that, and it feels that way in the game.

I suppose you could say that.  but I feel that the plain vastness of the great sea fixed that, and made it not feel so much like a grid.

Next up: The items. Let me think... there was one... ONE new item in the game. Everything else was either totally worthless (the Hero's Mask) or it has been used before in other Zelda games. That is PATHETIC. What happened to the good old days of Zelda? LttP introduced tons and tons of new items, and even LA managed to come up with some new ones. OoT had several new items.

And the Oracle games had the most inventive and imagination items of all the games, aside from LttP.

But then comes tWW, the inferior dissapointing Wind Waker. With one new item.

but those games took place in different places!  WW and OoT took place in the same area, so you would assume that the same items would be there.........

Another thing. All the nessecary items, items you need to beat the game, are practically handed to you. Take Dragon Roost Isaldn for example. Medli givs you the bottle... in LttP, you would have had to explore around a bit and find an treasure chest with an item hidden in a recess somewhere, or something.

More character interaction......adds to the game, in my opinion.

Or even worse, the Fire and Ice Arrows. You are given BOTH at the SAME time.

OMG, and can you believe that you get a pictograph AND film AT THE SAME TIME?!

The only items that are frustarting to get (frustrating, not hard... there's a difference) are WORTHLESS. WORTHLESS. It should either be the other way around, or they should have a good balance.

worhless for you, maybe, it's a goal for alot of people to collect everything.  It's not worthless to them.  And every item has a worth.

I remember back in games like LttP or LA, they had items like the Ice Rod just hidden in out-of-the way caves. Ever since OoT though, the only things hidden in random caves are rupees. It's rare to even find a HEART piece somewhere like that.


The Zelda magic, the sens eof exploration and adventure that has characterized the Zelda series for so long is completely and totally absent from the disgrace that is the Wind Waker.

WW was the most magical yet.  It was filled with emotion and awe, and the Great Sea was just stunning.  You explored the Great Sea, remember?  The best part?  It get's better every time you play it. (and the graphix certainly do add to the "Zelda Magic.")

And before any of you fools accuse me of hating it because of the graphics or some suchu thing... the celshaded graphics were the best part of the game. The ONLY part of the game I EVER want to see in another Zelda game.

Now, I want to add something... Up until you rescue Aryll, the game rocks. it lives up to the Zelda name. However, then the game's momentum and fun just... halts. It is so incredibly obvious that they were taking their time with the game up until then, perfecting it, but then they started rushing it." `lord-of-shadow, ZU.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #170 on: February 22, 2004, 04:00:00 PM »
Ugh, I don't see how anybody could be happy with Wind Waker's level of difficulty- it didn't give me a challenge at all, I never felt like I was in danger. It got boring because I knew I'd never die.
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #171 on: February 22, 2004, 04:34:19 PM »
Well, I'm not happy with it, but not angry with it either.  I'm neutral.

See, as i do agree the enemies were too easy, I died form other things (falling into that goddammed lava in dragon roost) and i did feel as if i was in danger.  It may be because I suck, or it could be because I always picture things worse than they will be.  (that didn't come out right.....I'm always scared to go into battle, but then the battle turns out easy.  That puts me in a sense of danger.)
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #172 on: February 22, 2004, 04:39:50 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Ugh, I don't see how anybody could be happy with Wind Waker's level of difficulty- it didn't give me a challenge at all, I never felt like I was in danger. It got boring because I knew I'd never die.

I really don't feel like tearing apart Smashman's book again, so I just say that I agree with KN... ^_^

And I was happy with WW's difficulty because it hasn't changed since LttP...It's ALWAYS <---It's bold, so it's important! been an easy series since then...Stop giving me this difficulty bullcrap!
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #173 on: February 22, 2004, 04:41:34 PM »
I'm not angry, either, like in the sense that I'm going to bomb your house or anything. I just don't see how anyone was content with its level of difficulty. I think if Nintendo had upped the amount of damage Link takes, made the overworld smaller or the islands bigger, and replaced the Rare-esque treasure hunt with some actual dungeons, the game just might have been perfect.
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Offline Smashman

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RE: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
« Reply #174 on: February 23, 2004, 10:27:28 AM »
KnowsNothing- in OOT, you start in Kokiri Forest... WW was a sinch, even lower compared to the average difficulty level of the normal Zeldas... SIDE QUESTS ARE NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A LONG, ENGAGING MAIN QUEST, WHICH WW DID NOT OFFER, but OOT and LTTP did... there WAS one island each grid, with only a couple really worth exploring... all Zelda games up until WW had several new, interesting, worthy items... you should find more items, in hazardous places.. WTF? Character interaction adds to the game. That is crap... in OOT and MM you get the Fire and Ice Arrows at different spots, which makes it for the better, OF COURSE you would get the pictograph and film at the same time, why would he give it to you without film? You missed the point... it is only worthy to collect everything if the item is worthy! The Deku Nuts and Deku Stick were worthless, but you ONLY had them as Young Link! WW felt awesome at alot of parts, but it did not affect me emotionally because of it being so cheesy... I was bored with the game after several hours, yet I can play OOT all day.

Arguing is fun!
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