Author Topic: Patriotism (Read 17374 times)

KnowsNothing · « **Reply #50 on:** October 04, 2003, 06:01:53 AM »

"(Though I'll be of age to vote early next year, I WILL NOT vote...Bush has just gotten incompetent, and every single one of the Democratic candidates is a complete moron...Where are the good candidates!?)"

Dave Barry for president. That is all. If you don't know who Dave Barry is, go here..

manunited4eva22 · « **Reply #51 on:** October 04, 2003, 06:48:58 AM »

Either of you saying people don't starve to death, go out and look in the corners of the streets. In winter if you don't see someone who has froze to death or is starving to death you are blind.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #52 on:** October 04, 2003, 01:01:11 PM »

Not saying that they don't, just saying that the ones that do are complete idiots. And no, actually, there are not that many. Especially not speaking relative to certain other countries. Any other country, in fact. Besides, starving to death and freezing to death are two very, very different things.

Ocarina Blue · « **Reply #53 on:** October 05, 2003, 12:47:56 AM »

I have NEVER seen or heard of anyone strarving or freezing to death in my country, unless they are trapped in the bush. And I don't live in an upper-class section of my country of it either.

KnowsNothing · « **Reply #54 on:** October 06, 2003, 10:27:03 AM »

Nor have I. It would totally make me sick to see a dead person, especially one who has starved or frozen to death, just sitting there in a corner of some alley. I suspect it'd be pretty rare to see that, becuase people who would starve to death would probably go begging in a busy place, and if he died he'd be taken care of rather quickly. I doubt I'd find a person who has starved to death in a "bad neighborhood" becuase what would the chances be of getting food or money?

I would most expect to find a dead person in one of those "bad neighborhoods" that has been murdered or something to that extent.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #55 on:** October 07, 2003, 11:30:26 PM »

Yes, and the crime and starvation rates are two totally different things.

CardBoardBox · « **Reply #56 on:** October 08, 2003, 04:22:21 PM »

Dead people are scary.....id probably barf or something if i saw one...or quickly throw something at it and hope it lands on the dead guys face -.- Yes it would be wicked nasty.
WICKED WICKED WICKED WICKED WICKED WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
Yes crime and starvation are umm...totally different...hahah australia..hehehe....
*mumble grumbles*

manunited4eva22 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 08, 2003, 04:55:38 PM »

If you haven't ever seen a dead person on the streets and live remotely near a big city, take my word for it, you are very sheltered.

Whether you see it or not it happens.

The fact that it happens less here doesn't make it any worse. 72 people starve to death every two minutes, is that not bad enough?

Ocarina Blue · « **Reply #58 on:** October 08, 2003, 07:15:34 PM »

No, I am not. Not every country has as harsh a winter as the USA, and not every country has as many poor people living in the USA. But you're right, it doesn't matter whether I see it or not, it happens. My reply was meant only as small correction, nothing more.

RABicle · « **Reply #59 on:** October 09, 2003, 05:52:02 AM »

It wouldn't be hard for someone to freeze to death in the USA. What is someguy got drunk at the pub and passed out while walking home? And it was snwoing?
It'll tell ya what, DEAD! But the media would rather tell you about the murder victim than the fool so you wouldn't hear about it

Bill Aurion · « **Reply #60 on:** October 09, 2003, 07:17:22 AM »

"If our knowledge of the world is controlled by the media then we live in a mediocrity." -Anonymous

nolimit19 · « **Reply #61 on:** October 09, 2003, 12:46:28 PM »

ok i dunno if maybe some of you people joined the convo late, but we are talking about america. 72 people do not starve to death every 2 minutes in america. that adds up to over 18 million a year, and that is simply not true. actually i have no idea where you go that number from, because i was under the impression that way more people then that die from starvation each year world wide....maybe not, but there is no doubt that tons of people starve to death. the point was that under normal circumstances, no one starves to death in the us. the poor people are fat here, and the rich are fit. thats the way it works. i spend a lot of time in the inner parts of L.A. they probably have the most homeless people because of their good weather. i can tell you this....none of them are on the brink of starvation. cali is a very liberal place, and those "homeless" people makes tons of money begging. you may not believe it, but they make more then enough to survive. and the funny thing is....i dont see any homeless illegals....do you know why...because a great portion of the really poor or "homeless" are drug addicts, veterans, or mentally ill. i think that probably more people die of heat each year then of freezing to death. freezing to death and starvation are not problems in the us. the problem is crime and drugs if anything. we dont have a food shortage thats for sure. 2/3 of america is overweight. and trust me a lot of those 2/3 are uneducated trailor trash that dont understand health and live off welfare. and please...tell we where all the dead americans are that are starving to death....there are none. simple as that.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #62 on:** October 10, 2003, 10:50:36 AM »

Quote
It wouldn't be hard for someone to freeze to death in the USA. What is someguy got drunk at the pub and passed out while walking home? And it was snwoing?

Yeah, a drunk. But no person that has an actual will to live is going to die of starvation, and, in most circumstances, freezing, in America. Sure, people freeze in Amercia, but I'd venture to say that those numbers are extremely low.

And I maintain that if anyone starves in America, that person is a moron.

manunited4eva22 · « **Reply #63 on:** October 10, 2003, 12:46:49 PM »

That is the world number, and take it back its 72 every minute.

Another 500 million will die in the next 15 years.

Humane aren't we, lets cut back taxes and give it back to the people who earned it, not the people who need it.

Oh give me a break, if you consider a few bucks a day as more than enough you really need to count how much you spend every day.

Just on food alone you spend more than they make in 3 or 4 days.

And the veterans comment, do I need to make my point even more clear. Lets see here, veterans, ah yes, the people who served actively in the militairy and we now decide we can screw over because we dont want to give them enough money to live off.

You want to find dead starving people, go down to the city hopsital and look in the morgue. I take it you haven't ever looked down a few of the not so nice streets and seen people lying there motionless. You keep on saying 'they dont exist, so maybe if I say it enough people will agree' because frankly I know for a fact it is true. Even if people have drug problems or what not, why do you think they got into it? Was it because they had this vast wealth lying around and they decided not to use it.

Look, just because there are success stories of people who fought through opression and staved off death and hatred, doesn't mean everyone or even many of us can do that. There is a reason why crime rates are higher in poor areas, and let me tell you, cutting off wellfare is not going to do jack to stop it. Without it, you have a bunch of poor people, and the only place around them that makes money is *gasp* gangs and drugs. Why do you think schools and sherriff departments spend so much on getting people off of drugs, yet only reach so far? Is it because the people they are trying to get out if it are just horrible people? I'm sure there are a few that are just rotten from the start, but habbit is learned. You can't just say, well maybe if one or two of them mess up, and it is bitched about by some politicians, but in reality is one of the things we spend the least on, it should go away.

You want to worry about something that costs a lot of money, worry about the military or research for it. Hell the black budget is larger than the military budget, worry about that.

I'm just saying though, you act like our country is the best thing in the world because that is what you see, but there are spots and there are people whom have never seen 1/1000th the privledges we have. If you are going to insinuate they don't exist or it's their fault, look at the people sometime, don't throw around hear say.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #64 on:** October 10, 2003, 02:54:28 PM »

that is simply not true. 1/1000th of the privledges have??? thats saying a lot...you know there are tons of people that reach out to inner city schools and tell them what htey need to do to succeed. they simply dont listen...do i feel bad for someone who doesnt listen...no i dont. do you realize that you can join the armed forces at 18 no matter what financial state you are in, get free room and board, and get paid?? its a great thing for people who want to serve their country or people who are less fortuneate. there are tons of ways to get out of you bad situation. and to me there is no excuse to

1. not have a place to live
2. not have a job
3. selling drugs to "get by"

like i said there seem to be jobs for millions of illegal immigrants, but no jobs for the poor people on welfare..awww too bad for them. also you cn find cheap housing for something like 500 a month if you were desperate....do the math.....get a roommate plus minimum wage....like i said....i dont feel sorry for (most) anyone. and lastly, selling drugs kills our society on so many levels, and anyone who resorts to that life style deserves to be locked away.

and like i said before, i really do think that people should help others in other countries, and our own as well. and the liberals like to talk about it like they are so holy, but when the thought of giving iraq 87 billion dollars comes up, they really change their tune. hmmmmm interesting. when it comes down to it, the us has nonprofit organizations for a reason....to not profit and help others. the governement is always less efficient then a well run organization. all i know is that if liberals were allowed to tax the crap out of the rich like they say they want to america wouldnt be what it is today. liberals lack economic logic. think about it quickly...who pays the low end guys....thats right, the rich! amazing, simply facinating. so that means that if taxes are raised for the rich, they wont have as much money to pay their employers... WHAT A CONCEPT! one that liberals refuse to understand to gain the poor vote! it sounds great trust me. i am just a poor college studet and my family is just normal middle class. i am not rich by american standards, and at first hearing the dems stance on taxes, i imediately agreed. however, if you know anything about anything you realize that is not hte answer....also raising the minimum wage....say you are a business owner and the minimum wage is raised...you have two options to maintain your current pofits.....raise prices, or cut down on employment....hmmmm and we blame bush for our bad economy.

whats the point of all this??? less taxes means a more efficient government, use of money, and economy. if people want to give to the poor it should be their choice, and i think that we as the richest country in the world should definitely take charge in that, and we already do. americans give away tons of money to charitable organizations each year. and like i said, government should be their for the extreme cases, but none of the 500 billion on free health care for the poor and elderly crap that we have today. if you smoked for 30 years, you were asking to die, that was your descion and not mine, why should i pay for it....the answer is...i shouldnt.

http://www.thesakeofargument.com/archives/000078.html

people dont starve to death in america, and thoes that go to sleep hungery are better off then they think...there is an obiesity epidemic in the country and they dont have to worry about that

Ocarina Blue · « **Reply #65 on:** October 10, 2003, 03:36:40 PM »

Employers do not pay their employees from their own incomes; they pay it from their profits. Even if they did, the money from the rich people simply doesn't just disappear; it is redistributed to the poor, who in turn spend it, which helps accelerate your spending cycle.

The minimum wage may not raise the number of people who are employed, but it helps those that are employed. If the minimum wage is too low, then those who are employed at that wage will not be able to live at a level the government (and therefore the people who voted it to power) feel is acceptable. A low minimum wage may help production, and employment levels, but it does not have a positive impact on the actual standard of living, look at Bolivia for evidence of this.

Free health care once again doesn't aid your economy, but it aids the general standard of living in your country (when I say standard of living, I'm not referring to GDP, BTW). Health insurance is expensive, and not everyone can afford it. Your government is obligated to ensure that health care, protection against unemployment, reasonable employment standards and protection for those in circumstances beyond their control (such as old age and poverty) are accessible under article 25 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

EDIT: Grammar

nolimit19 · « **Reply #66 on:** October 10, 2003, 04:21:12 PM »

hey.....well said argument that i cant disagree with. just a difference in opinion. and i understnad that people dont pay their employees out of their own pocket, but a lot of businesses are controlled by rich people who will alter production out puts and what not in order to maintain profits. amd i do think the government should help people that have no control over their situation like i said before....handicap, people injured on the job, ect., but these people who dont even have jobs and just collect and collect need to not get any money. they shoudl be thrown in prison for fraud in my opinion.

Ocarina Blue · « **Reply #67 on:** October 10, 2003, 05:00:45 PM »

I see what you’re saying, and I respect your argument, but not all that are unemployed are unemployed because they are lazy or because they have some sort of disability. Earlier this year, manufactures in the USA shed jobs because of low demand and full inventories. Is a person who is laid off because more than 250 000 000 other people have come to the end of their spending cycles in control of their employment situation? I do not live in the USA, but I was under the impression that people who are unemployed there only because there is a shortage of jobs must actively be searching for work if they wish to receive an unemployment benefit, is that not enough?

nolimit19 · « **Reply #68 on:** October 10, 2003, 05:40:53 PM »

i am under the same impression, but i know that there are plenty of jobs avalible, its just that they are jobs that no one wants. mowing lawns, construction, fast food restraunts and things of that sort that people dont want to "stoop" to. well it may suck to work at one of those places, but its better then collecting a check. i think that if people really want money, they should go out and earn it. and i believe that the only reason people dont is because they can survive off the governements money(taxes that everyone pays) until they find a "good job". and i think that is just one more tax burden that we dont need.

manunited4eva22 · « **Reply #69 on:** October 10, 2003, 06:23:20 PM »

There are so many jobs out there in fact, that we have one of the highest unemployment rates since the depression.

You don't think you are by atleast a thousand times off better than a lot of those kids? Do your parents care about you? If that is worth a lot to you, think about how much it is to someone whose parents who don't.

If you want to get into jobs, guess what is happening now and in the future. A major outsourcing of jobs from the US. Straight onto cheaper countries, so yes, there is going to be a even larger number of unemployed people in the US within the next few decades. Like it or not, it will happen, if you don't believe it yet, look at the tech sector. Next year the rate of jobs exported will grow 128% from this past year, by the end of the decade, it is expected to be around 5000%.

Obviously though, you have it that you know this subject from head to toe, so whatever you think must be right.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #70 on:** October 10, 2003, 08:03:29 PM »

I like how you insult people, manunited, and say stuff like this: "you have it that you know this subject from head to toe, so whatever you think must be right." Really helps support your argument, too.

I must confess that I do not go down to the morgue in my free time to check and see how many people starved to death. Sorry that I have not experienced dead people sitting there rotting on the road, but I doubt it would influence my opinion or make me any more or less knowledgeable about what's going on. Yes, extreme drug addicts and drunkards probably do starve to death on occassion, but they probably OD or wreck much more often. And who's fault is that? Their fault. And you don't have to take drugs to sell them. . . that's no excuse.

I'd probably say more, but I'm bored and this argument has gotten repetitive, not to mention that it may very well be locked soon. Unless something that I have to comment on comes up, this will probably be my last post in this thread.

manunited4eva22 · « **Reply #71 on:** October 11, 2003, 07:42:41 AM »

This was never an arguement, and if I get a tad pissed off because someone says 'well seeing death wont change my mind, I know because I don't''

Go down to the morgue, your arguement that seeing death won't change your mind is just kind of out there. I mean look at the holocaust. It's one thing to say ya 5 million people dying is bad, then to see just exactly what 5 million horrendous deaths look.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #72 on:** October 11, 2003, 07:49:32 AM »

Okay, I lied. But you say that a corpse is going to change my opinion? Not hardly.

I've seen dead people, you know, funerals and stuff. My grandfather, for instance, I touched his face after he had died of lung cancer, while he was in the coffin. He was someone that I knew, and liked. Why should some emaciated corpse in a morgue changed my opinion more than that, some drugged up fool that I never knew or cared about remotely? It won't. I'm not the type of person to change my opinion over a little spilled blood. . . or anything, for that matter.

KnowsNothing · « **Reply #73 on:** October 11, 2003, 08:01:04 AM »

You...you ...touched it?

manunited4eva22 · « **Reply #74 on:** October 11, 2003, 08:42:52 AM »

You make my point for me, you don't know because you haven't.

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Author Topic: Patriotism (Read 17374 times)