Topic: Patriotism

[Grey Ninja]

First of all, I want to say that I have drank one hell of a lot tonight, and I apologize in advance for all spelling and grammatical errors.  I am not really up to such a task right now.  But I also want to say that regardless of your country of origin, I REALLY want to say that it's ok if you don't like Canada for whatever reason.  You are also free to boast about your own country without fear of any sort of retalliation from me, and it's my wish that the other Canadians here follow the same rules.

But I just watched "The Arrow".  It's a dramatized story about Canada's "Arrow" project back in the '50's, and it's one very well done movie.  It especially hit home with me.  I used to have a dream to become an Aerospace Engineer.  I dropped out after my first year of school though, and switched my major to Computer Science.  I wasn't in a school that offered the whole Engineering program, and only had a transfer program where you switched schools after the first year, and I accumulated 4 'D' grades in my first year.  It was a shock to me, since I had never gotten a grade below a 'B' before, but 4 non-transferable courses meant that I would have to retake the entire year of school.  I wasn't prepared to do that, so I just switched majors.  But that aside, this movie really touched home with me.  If I had picked a better University, I might be well on my way to becoming a Computer or Aerospace Engineer (I never really decided).

In short, I feel an honest love for my country for the first time.  It was Canadian troops who turned the tide of World War I.  There were Canadians landing on the beaches of Normandy.  There were Canadians training British Pilots in World War II.  There were Canadians developing modern fighter aircraft TWO DECADES BEFORE the United States.  And most importantly of all, two Canadian game developers are showing world class game design.  EA Big has long been standing the only part of EA that I actually like, after developing SSX Tricky.  Silicon Knights, I am sure you all know is currently my favorite game developer, and the place I would VERY much like to work one day.  (In fact... I have made it my life's goal).

Canada isn't a bad place.  Our people seem to be extremely tolerant of other viewpoints for the most part.  A Black man can feel at home pretty much anywhere in our country, which doesn't seem to be the case with the US.  Canadians also seem to be respected world wide.  I have not heard of anyone really (other than Canadians) who have a serious problem with us.

You know why Canada isn't a superpower?  The reason is because Canadians have notoriously bad judgement.  We tend to elect idiots, and most Canadians seem to choose the WORST console.  "The Arrow" seems to have destroyed a bit of the apathy in me.  I have long accepted that the Canadian politicians are corrupt as hell, and there's not much that can be done about it.  You know what?  It's going to be true tomorrow too.  There's not much I can do about it.

I took a trip through the US a couple of years back.  I was surprised about how many American flags I saw... how many symbols of patriotism I saw... how much stuff I saw that showed that somebody actually cared about what the flag actually symbolized.  To me, the flag always showed to me how much Eastern Canada cared about Western Canada (there are no Maple Trees in Alberta, BC, Saskatchewan, North West Territories, or the Yukon... or... other places I am sure!  (and nobody speaks french in western Canada either).) But the flag has taken on a whole new meaning for me now.

Anyways, I am way drunk and on the verge of throwing up, so I am going to bed.   Night night.

[PIAC]

well australians invented the lawnmower, and err invented the aussie thread, i think it safe to say we have done our part for the world *folds arms*


and i told you to wait a bit, then swallow the rest of the drink!

[Shift Key]

Aussies are definitely a strange mob.
We have a heap of pride in our sporting teams and athletes, and we couldn't give a stuff about the rest of it.
We also like to bag the hell out of everyone else, especially Kiwis and Pommies.

And we make the best beer EVER!

[Bill Aurion]

In the U.S. critics say that there was no patriotism before September 11th, but that's absolutely not the case.  It's just that it was more noticable afterwards...Though I can't stand the way bureaucrats run our government, I will always stand up for my country.  And it's nice to see that you guys do too

[Grey Ninja]

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and i told you to wait a bit, then swallow the rest of the drink!

I did wait.  The drink is still sitting here half empty though.    It looks kind of gross right now actually.  It went kinda bad over the night.

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And we make the best beer EVER!

Nah, that's Canadians.  

[KnowsNothing]

Well, there has been the on-going theme of "Canadians are dumb" in my school.  But that was last year, and it pretty much stopped after tha trip to Montreal.  What does that mean?

[KDR_11k]

We have no patriots here. At least not many. Maybe that's because noone wants to be called a neo-nazi?

[Caliban]

I did once watched a documentary on the Avro Arrow when I was living in Portugal. I was even more proud of having dual citizenship(Luso-Canadian). I was quite furious(and still am) with the americans because they suppressed the Canadian government to stop the project. I was sad when in the documentary they said that the person that started and headed the project died in New York(not quite if it's the right city) as a drunk homeless. BTW I too want to follow Aerospace Engineering(for propulsion development) but I'm still undecided because my other option is Materials Chemistry Science(or materials engineering depending on the university).

[Grey Ninja]

It enfuriated me because Canada gained so much after World War I.  We were on almost equal ground with the US, and with the Arrow, we could have become the second superpower in North America.  I was very angry that one dumb f*ck of a politician just decided to stand down and let Canada lose it's new found freedom from Great Britian.  We are no longer a British colony, but it seems we have become an American colony in the process.  And it was needless.

That's actually one of the reasons I don't mind Cretien.  (or however the hell you spell the damn frog's name.  ).  He's been in office so long that he really just doesn't give a crap anymore, and he is constantly standing against the US.

[nolimit19]

yea i thikn its good that other countries stand up to the us. i didnt understnad why everyone "hated" the US before, but i understand more now. i am an american so no flaming....proud of my country and all that. however if i was in a different country i wouldnt want it kissing americas ass all the time.....the one country that has their ish together is Switzerland. if every country was like them at least when it comes to economics and foreign affairs, everyone would be better off.  

[Caliban]

nolimit19 Switzerland isn't so evolved as some people think. It's just another place in this planet that scum like Nazis are kept protected. Because of them being neutral is one reason to never trust there past, present and future policy.

[Ocarina Blue]

I have a dislike for nationalism, as I type I know racism in my country is already surging upwards, being fueled by nationalism.  

[The Omen]

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nolimit19 Switzerland isn't so evolved as some people think. It's just another place in this planet that scum like Nazis are kept protected. Because of them being neutral is one reason to never trust there past, present and future policy.

Very true..   The nazis live like fat cats over there, ever since WWII.

Grey Ninja:  Always love your country and stand up for it, but don't be afraid to question.  If you except the status quo, you'll be rendered a robot.

noilimit19:  People hate America because its a superpower.  If we were just another country, nobody would give a sh!t about us.  But every country government wants the exact power they ridicule....i dont agree with everything, (some would say anything_), the government does, but i was born here, i live a reasonably good life(besides my mental problems) and i was able to pursue my dream ...what is not to like.?  Do we flex our muscle, ?  Sure.  But so does every country (in varying degrees)

Bottoms up!!!

[Grey Ninja]

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Originally posted by: Ocarina Blue
I have a dislike for nationalism, as I type I know racism in my country is already surging upwards, being fueled by nationalism.

Just so you know, I am not caucasian.  

Anyways, back to the more important matters in life.  DRINKING!!!!!

[PIAC]

*lifts pirate mug of gin in salute*

[manunited4eva22]

To be a super power, don't you generally have to have a massive economy, enormous political clout, and an extremely large and powerful militairy?

To be honest, Canada never was one of those.  

[The Omen]

I think Ninja was saying they had the potential to be a superpower 50 or so years ago.

[KnowsNothing]

But they didn't, and now there a place where everyone says "eh?" and puts maple syrup on everything, loves hockey (Blegh!) and eats Canadian bacon, which is really ham.  What a weird country!

[Hostile Creation]

I don't wave a flag around, but yes, I am patriotic.  And racism is not fueled by patriotism. . . they are just two things common in the same people, for some reason or another.  And they are idiots, and despite what you may think, those are not the people that make the difference.  Nor am I, simply because I choose not to, but it's not them either

[The Omen]

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But they didn't, and now there a place where everyone says "eh?" and puts maple syrup on everything, loves hockey (Blegh!) and eats Canadian bacon, which is really ham. What a weird country!

It sounds like you're describing a wednesday night for me in December, and i'm from New Jersey!  Alright, i only say eh when being sarcastic, but everything else is a-o-k with me.


Hostile creation, more intelligent words have never been spoken....common sense is back!!!

[Grey Ninja]

Heh... this reminds me of my Anthropology class.  My teacher was a hillbilly from the US, and she was always studying us and asking us questions about our culture.  I remember one day she asked us what it meant to be Canadian.  There were several answers.

BEER!  (This is the foremost symbol of being Canadian.  Canadian Beer)
eh?  (When taking Japanese class, I found it very amusing that the Japanese have a direct equivalent to "eh", and they use it just as much)
Hockey (Undeniable.  Most Canadians love hockey.  I do not however)
The Beaver (The professor stopped at this one.  She said that every class she had asked had mentioned the Beaver.  She said:  "I had no idea the beaver was such a potent national symbol".  It actually is too.  I think it's just weird and funny enough that most Canadians will remember it.

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To be a super power, don't you generally have to have a massive economy, enormous political clout, and an extremely large and powerful militairy?

Canadians played a really big part in winning World War I.  They were also invaluable allies in World War II.  They had lots of political clout in the '50s.

When Canada developed the Arrow, they had created a fighter plane that was decades ahead of its time.  Canada would have been able to sell it EASILY on the foreign market.

Canada had a great thing when they created the Arrow.  But because of a corrupt politician, they took blowtorches to the 37 Arrows that were created, and destroyed all things related to them.  That moment is when Canada became a puppet country of the US, and lost any chance of being a superpower.  The reason for that is that Canada allowed the US to provide military defense of all of North America, and Canada scrapped its own weapons programs abandoning their own defense.

[Ocarina Blue]

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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
And racism is not fueled by patriotism. . . they are just two things common in the same people, for some reason or another.  And they are idiots, and despite what you may think, those are not the people that make the difference.  Nor am I, simply because I choose not to, but it's not them either

Well said, but I believe that in my specific case, nationalism is to blame for the upsurge of racism. In most places that have been affected by racism, people are discriminated because of the colour of their skin, or the way they speak. In my case however, racism is fueled because of an influx in immigration. Around 70% of our immigrants are still from Europe and North America, dominantly Anglo-Saxon countries, and people never had a problem with that. But in the past 2 years in particular, immigration from Asia has soared. Immigration as a whole has not risen by a huge amount, but the media has gone wild, with stories about terrible driving habits and people who cannot speak English sucking the culture from my country are not uncommon. Naturally, anyone who has heritage from Asia is stereotyped into this category. The racism itself is born from biggitism and stupidity, but the reason people are driven to biggitism and stupidity is fear of change from what my country is in the first place. If people had no pride in my country, then I believe racism here would not be as widespread as it is. Fortunately, racism is still not at an irreversible level, and I'm optimistic it will be quashed before it gets more serious. I apologize for not explaining my train of thought earlier, and I certainly wasn't trying to accuse anyone of being racist if they are patriotic.

[Termin8Anakin]

I think Shifty summed up the national Aussie ideal right there.
And in a past issue of FHM, they had '15 reasons why we [Australia] are the best country'.
Funny sh*t, considering that it's actually pretty true. Here is just the list, while my fave ones have the details:

1. Gambling

2. Cheap Booze

3. Laziness

4. Drunkeness equals respect

5. Idiocy is rewarded
Being the egalitarian bunch we are, we don't demand intelligence for success. You can buy a farm, tear down all the tress, ruin your soil with salt and erosion, build a damn upstream an watch as everything upstream dies - the government will give you money, and the general population will hold telethons and benefit concerts to compensate for your idiocy, short-sightedness, and general incompetence! Now that's mateship!

6. Deadly animals

7. We root for the underdog

8. Nothing's Scacred

9. We blame the English
You can blame everything on the English; in fact, we hate the English so much, we voted to keep them as our head of state, just so we can keep heaping sh*t on them instead of taking responsibility for ourselves. And they wonder why were known as 'the clever country'.

10. The dole
No need to go further into details about this Us aussie know why. Haha.

11. The climate

12. Indifference
Aussie are ofthe praised for their laid back nature - a nice way of saying we don't really give a sh*t about anything, even if it's important. We may have national pride, but the truth is that no-one even cares about something as simple as the national anthem - even sportsmen and politicians don't seem to know the words. No one worries about civil unrest here - no-one could ever be bothered to turn up.

13. All-year-round sport

14. Crap local music

15. Porn access
...it's not too difficult to get your hands on some quality wirst fuel - newsagents stock a fine selection of educational mags and most till jockeys will give you the benefit of the doubt, even if you're in school uniform and short pants. And if you're lucky enough to live in Canberra, you can watch hardcore x-rated porn while letting off fireworkds and growing weed! Genius!

Hahahaha.

[Bill Aurion]

"6. Deadly animals"

Those koalas are some mighty fierce creatures.  They act all tame and innocent with their cute little eyes and big noses, but when you are sleeping they sneak through your window...ever so quietly...and

....

and....

AND THEY GO FOR THE JUGULAR!

....

^_^'

[Termin8Anakin]

here's what FHM said about Deadly animals:

"Australia has an amazing array of native wildlife - much of which can kill you. We have the world's deadliest snakes, long with crocs, spiders, sharks and even evil jellyfish. Luckily, most Aussies are too lazy to go anywhere near them, so it's only tourists who cop the brunt of their killing power."